GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Crosman Airguns => Topic started by: Joshua A. on December 06, 2011, 11:15:17 PM
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OK,
This has been a work in progress for quite some time folks...
I finished this a while ago, but have not been able to post pictures and a write up, but here it is!
Here is a list of what all mods were performed, and/or parts that were installed.
1. Rj Machine Breech
2. 14.5" Mellon barrel in .22
3. Fully modified and reduced volume valve. Flat topped by me!
4. re-shaped valve stem for maximum airflow
5. Transfer port is a nylon spacer - OD= 1/4" ID= .180 barrel and valve drilled out to .180 as well.
6. Mellon flow-thru bolt with standard handle - ft bolt has been drilled out to match up with the barrel/transfer port size (.180) and alignment perfectly
7. Mellon FT piston.
8. Mellon solid pin kit.
9. Dura-coat Flat Black paintjob on airtube, shroud, grips and forearm
10. Domestic 10m Grips and matching forearm made and stippled by me.
11. Takedown stock and custom power adjuster made by the user Yel01Z06 - very nice work!
12. Full 1" OD barrel shroud. approx 4" of baffling. made by Glen Suzuki aka tinker on the capof. beautiful work.
13. Pinned valve by use of 10-24 set screws, to eliminate valve movement.
14. Older all-metal crosman gripframe installed.
15. Stace Roller trigger
16. All trigger components contact points polished.
17. Beeman red dot scope.
18. Viton 90 Durometer o-ring kit.
(http://s6.postimage.org/7tjp5yk01/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/nt2cpig1t/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/q06ldflc1/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/nww65rlj5/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/55u8vlqyp/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/slc60yapt/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/3tcjtptj5/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/sb4nhlw3l/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Real carbon fiber - no stickers!! Not that there's anything wrong with that.. I've several of those types too lol..
(http://s6.postimage.org/i2c6bs81t/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/745i7c8u9/010.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
My valve pinning job!! that valve ain't going nowhere!
(http://s6.postimage.org/pz18xr8w1/011.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
The rear shoulder stock threads on and off of a custom power adjuster. Quick and easy!!
(http://s6.postimage.org/nizfjwqtd/012.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/qeciqrutd/013.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/nljb6qugx/014.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Then this ring threads onto the power adjuster to protect the threads and also to give the power adjuster a finished look! very well designed and machined
(http://s6.postimage.org/ainonh48x/015.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/bm7szfow1/016.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/zeh4ayqwx/017.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/hppdjcf5t/018.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Once the stock is off it is a decently small package. It can be used as a pistol, or can be easily packed into a backpack or gun case for easy transit!
(http://s6.postimage.org/3ko5v9vi9/019.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/lor6fwt6p/020.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/9bec903i9/021.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
image upload (http://postimage.org/)
This gun has been incredibly accurate, powerful, lightweight, and versitile! This gun can be used as a carbine rifle, or a pistol and is Great for pest elimination/small game, and/or target shooting. Who could ask for more? seriously?? This will continue to be one of my favorite airguns. I was very happy to have this one finished.
You can read more about what all went into this gun on this thread link'd below
Thanks for looking,
J.Austin
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thats friggin awesome!!!
got any chrony results?
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No chrony results yet... But I have another 13xx gun setup similar to this one and It gets up over 700 fps with 15-16 pumps and with a 14.3 grain pellet. So I'd assume that this one is as good as or better. The other one has 2" less barrel. I'll post some when i get them though so stay tuned.
J.Austin
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Here it is with my other prized possession 13xx .22 LOL
(http://s6.postimage.org/sfhb07c1t/P1060694.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
image hosting gif (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/9te32ligx/P1060689.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
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J.Austin
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Nice Josh, Nice..
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COOL! It's a Ninja gun.
Richard
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Yes it could definitely pass as a ninja weapon.. All thats needed is for it to shoot sleep inducing darts...lol
J.Austin
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Sweeeeeeeeeeet Job Josh.
Mike
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WOW! Those are beauties!
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oh my god, dude, that is the coolest looking gun. i have a barrel shroud that im waiting to put on mine that will make it look kiiinda like that. im just waiting to get a breech spacer or a riser breech so it will fit. that stock and adapter/power adjuster is the shizzle. is it made of aluminium or steel?
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Awesome build Josh, that just looks flat out mean!
Also, I think you've hit on what I want look wise, when you and I were discussing a set of grips for my P-rod.
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Dude, those grips and the pumper are awesome, did you make them or buy them? iv been looking for a cool blacked out set of textured grips like that
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Thanks everyone. I'm quite pleased with how she turned out!
Millpede - The power adjuster is made of aluminum... I tried to get the guy to do it out of stainless, and he tried, but said he kept losing his tooling lol.. and i can beleive it!!
Brewerja - The grips and forearm were made by me - as listed up above in the list of parts/mods.
Ratracer - I can make a similar forearm for your p-rod. Since i got this new 2.5 hp 1/2" collet router, I've been able to make forearms better and quicker than ever
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absolutely beautiful guns joshua, you've inspired me to put some more thought and time into my 1377
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love the quality of work, attention to detail, and excellent craftsmanship. VERY impressive!
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Looks great , could you expand on the " fully modded reduced volume valve" ? I assume this technique can be adapted to any similar AG.
Ethan
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VERY NICE indeed !!!!!! Both Cosmetically and Mechanically !!!
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Awesome job Josh. That is one of the nicest 1377's I have seen. I am really impressed. I am waiting for parts for mine. Great pictures.
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WOW, that is awesome!!!
Out of curiosity, how much ballpark would it take to build a piece like that? Maybe minus that beautiful stock, I'm sure that would really be out of my price range! It's really something!!!
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That is awesome! Very impressed. Great work on that thing.
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That's a very well-thought out and attractive package, Josh. It's obvious that you put a lot of time and planning into the project. I think everyone agrees, YOU SUCCEEDED!!! What a beautiful gun.
joe
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Thanks again everyone. I did put a lot of time and money into this project. Its hard to ballpark the price that i paid, because many of the items were items acquired in grip trades, namely the custom shroud, power adjuster, and shoulderstock..
The modified reduced volume valve would consist of the following:
1. boring out the transfer port to the maximum outer diameter while still allowing a .22 pellet to pass by without falling into the valve.
2. Adding an extra item into the valve to take up some volume.
3. A shorter lighter valve spring would be in order due to the extra piece added to the inside of the valve.
4. Re-shaping the valve stem to allow maximum airflow.
5. Fitting a transfer port seal that matches the inner diameter of the valve and barrel port EXACTLY.. This is very important.
6. Polishing the inside of the valve in any area that air will be traveling through.
7. There's no indication that Viton 90 durometer o-rings seal tighter, or add to performance, but what they DO do - is last a *(&^ of a lot longer! You can now pump 15 - 20 - or even 30 times if you want... regular o-rings wont last long if you do this, but if you use the viton 90's they can handle the heat and pressure with flying colors.. Its not reccomended to pump like that on a stock or even modified set-up, but if your valve is pinned like mine, and you have these o-rings, little can really go wrong.
Some of these procedures may seem picky and a waste of time, but if you want to get up over 700fps with a 14.3 grain pellet with the fewest amount of pumps - literally EVERY single bit helps.. procedures like drilling out the flow-thru bolt to match the ID of your transfer port.
(http://s6.postimage.org/tn5cmnetd/drilled_out_bolt.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
drill it so to make it all line up exactly! it really makes a bigger difference than you might think... when you do this. And when you have your top end off of the gun, and the flow-thru bolt foreward and locked down - you should be able to look through the transfer port tube and see straight into the top of the barrel with not even the tiniest obstruction.
(http://s6.postimage.org/mu4zqdo01/breech_bottom.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/f2o9rtjup/breech_bottom2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Same thing with the valve. If you put the seal onto the valve you should be able to see directly down into the valve - no obstruction. Another very important procedure is to pin your valve... I found that at the higher pressures with the reduced volume valve that the front gripframe screw actually bent a tiny bit allowing the valve to move rearward - therefore pinching the transfer port tube and restricting airflow... No good.. That valve needs to be in there completely solid with no rearward movement. there is a picture of the valve pinning in the photos I originally posted.
Below is a picture of how my valve is set-up for reduced volume. You can see how the valve stem is re-shaped and polished here too. This is a trick i learned from roy at mountain air... every lil bit counts when you're going for full power!! Drill and countersink your valve and barrel with an 11/64 drill bit and countersing with a 1/4" endmill.. this way your transfer port seal will sit completely flat.
(http://s6.postimage.org/aklyzq3sx/valve_set_up01.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/mnranaev5/valve_set_up02.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Testing by members over at the CAPOF have found that a reduced volume valve can be used to get som nice numbers! The Idea is: that with less volume, the pressure is higher, and with a large enough transfer port and seal, that pressure can send the pellet with some force! I've talked to sever guys that have gotten up over 700fps with a 14.3 gr pellet @ 15 pumps with this set-up and at least a 14" barrel. Even less pumps with a 24" barrel. The main problem I've had is making/cutting/acquiring the right valve spring... I need to learn ow to make the darn things LOL.
Here is what the nylon tubes look like that I use for my transfer port seal. 59 cents at most hardware stores. These are less flexible/more sturdy, and easier to make flat on the ends. The sealing ends of the tube absolutely need to be flat so to make an airtight seal at the valve and barrel ends... This is easily accomplished by cutting them off with a razor blade and rubbing them on a nice new file. you cant do that with the poly-refrigerator tubes.
(http://s6.postimage.org/cb5017lc1/nylon_tube.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Some of these mods can also be applied to a discovery, 2240, 2250, 2260or others like them.
ALSO - This information, is all obviously JUST MY OPINION, and is all the results of my observation, and tests. I'm merely sharing it here, I'm not trying to start a debate or arguement. Others may have different opinions or findings, and thats fine. Its all good stuff to me. If there are any other questions please just ask.
Thanks,
J.Austin
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not sure how i missed this thread? BUT AWESOME work there Joshua! What a sweet looking carbine
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That's a great looking 13xx Josh! Really nice work inside and out. Thanks for sharing all the details with us.
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Now that is a sick looking set up!!!
What a great source of inspiration!!
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Thanks, pics and write up of the valve are excellent. I have a rifle I need to get a little more out of and this may be worth considering.
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Thank you for all the photos and information Josh. This helps more than you can imagine.
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Too cool.
Scotty
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Too cool! Do you sell grips?
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Nice job. Hope that you get many years of safe and happy shooting with it.
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Very very nice.
Ernesto
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up nice airgun and just one more reason why i can't make up my mind on my next project it would be a 13xx or a 22xx but what to start with they are all good and all mod able choices choices choices
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I couldn't help myself. I had the stock valve from my pc77 sitting around and a bunch of other spare parts from it too. I think I will take all the internals as far as I can with your photos handy. Add some of my own ideas, when it is done if I like the results, so far so good by the way, I think I will buy a used/refurb. pc77 to put it all in.
Thanks ,
Ethan
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Great Idea. A few of us have gotten very very good results with the valve/gun set-up like i've described, the small details really count. I do sell grips and stocks. If you run a search here and on other forums, you'll find hundreds of examples of my work. Especially grips for crosman pistols like 2240, and 13xx. I've made and sold over 100 sets of grips in about a years time. I will have a website up soon hopefully lol, I keep saying that, but I continue to be flooded with grip orders, and haven't needed to make a site yet because once I do that, I can only imagine that i will get that much more business lol.. Anyhow THANKS everyone for all of the great comments, and if anyone has any questions please let me know. I consider it my duty to share my knowledge about these guns, as a lot of it was shared with me in the past. I wasn't born with the ability to build a 1377 lol!
Thanks,
J.Austin
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hey josh, you could try selling on Etsy.com, it's easy to get started and i hear the fee's are cheaper than ebay. its mainly for handcrafted stuff like scarfs and jewelry so youre stuff wouldn't exactly fit in but your grips ARE handmade and it IS a craft, soo... im not sure if they have any policies against "gun parts" either but it could be worth a shot. people sell handforged knives on there so i dont see how they could make a fuss about a couple pieces of wood
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up nice airgun and just one more reason why i can't make up my mind on my next project it would be a 13xx or a 22xx but what to start with they are all good and all mod able choices choices choices
I know what you mean, this one really complicates what I THOUGHT I was going to build, LOL
I am inspired by this one, but don't want to copy it too much, and at the same time, after seeing one this nice, I'm afraid to share mine
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Copy it all you want bro lol. thats what the info is there for :) I've found that you can get a 13xx gun to shoot just as powerful, if not more so than a co2 platform 22xx. Now if you are talking about a 22xx on hpa?? that changes the game altogether. Not to mention all the pumping that is involved with a 13xx.. Thats not for everyone. Doesn't bother me any, but My dad hate it. He won't even consider building or owning a pumper. Either gun is a heck of a lot of fun, but with winter coming up, a co2 gun is not the best idea, unless you live where its warm all year round. If you don't, consider building the 13xx this winter, and save building the co2 gun for spring/summer.
J.Austin
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I think the short pump on the 1377 is what bothers me. if it had a longer tube and pump, I'd probably like it a lot more. Not looks wise, but function wise.
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That thing is sweet! I haven't been around much, but that thing makes me want to get to work on mine...(it's been in the closet since spring)
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Joshua,
Looking good my brotha.......Great post, great pics, great guns.
I would have posted sooner, but.......I dropped my computer :)
(Now you know, I'm just going to have to have a pair of those fine grips for my 13xx) :)
You knew that already though.
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Awesome guns!!
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Very nice!
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Great looking guns!!
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i.m lost for words,so i will just say, beautiful gun. ;D
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Great peice!!! Only one question .when pinning the valve would it be the same as the 3 screws on a disco or are you pinning just to the rear of the valve?
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I am jealous of that pistol, I have a 1377 and a 2240 that will be modded over time.
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Great peice!!! Only one question .when pinning the valve would it be the same as the 3 screws on a disco or are you pinning just to the rear of the valve?
Its pretty much the same thing as the 3 screws on the crosman pcp guns. Its meant to fortify and stabilize the valve in place, to operate at higher pressures than that of a stock gun. I began to realize that when I over pumped the gun (20-30 pumps) the valve would move slightly to the rear of the gun 1/4" or so, therefore pinching the polytube transfer port seal.. which in turn obstructed the airflow from the valve to the barrel... decreasing the power of the gun dramatically... pinning the valve fixes this problem. Pinning the valve serves as one of the important mods done to strengthen a gun that is going to be pumped well over ten times on a regular basis. A Viton 90duro o-ring in place of the the stock o-ring on the piston, is the other main important one. *Valve pinning is a crucial mod that is pretty much a necessity also on a 2240 that is being set-up for hpa, or for a hi-pac set-up.
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superb! that's the nicest one I've yet
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Thanks jousha .as my first 1377 was stolen and now I have a replacement i can slowly begin the task of building another and pining the valve not that you explained it will be done .I Wana see if I can get a 1377 close to 800 fps with a medium weight pellet with around 20 pumps
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Sorry now that you explained. Do you think drilling and tapping the valve with two 4-40 screws one from each side would be enough to hold it in place
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I think that the 2) 4-40 screws will work ok. Certainly better than none. I'm sure that will hold it just fine though. I just used the 10-24 ones because it was what i had a tap for.
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Seems that this gun (13xx blackout) may either go up for sale, or maybe even disassembled and parted out... WHY??? I guess that there are just other projects that are more important at this point in time. The black wood set that was on this gun has already been sold to crosshairs... If I post it up for sale as a whole gun, I will make a new custom set of furniture to go with it, or sell it without... who knows.. Its a darned shame though... In case you are wondering what is on the table that is so important... I'm building a very stock looking 1322 medalist, with all original external parts, but VERY modified internals.. also a custom .25 disco pistol may very well be in the works as well.. lol if anyone is interested email me. I really wouldn't mind sending the gun out in the mail by tomorrow, Just thinking out loud here...
J.Austin
Rafeer896@yahoo.com
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Out of curiosity, what would be the breech and barrel/shroud combo cost? To go with these.
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Do you have these grips and pump handle for sale? How do I get a set?
Thanks in advance.
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OK,
This has been a work in progress for quite some time folks...
I finished this a while ago, but have not been able to post pictures and a write up, but here it is!
Here is a list of what all mods were performed, and/or parts that were installed.
1. Rj Machine Breech
2. 14.5" Mellon barrel in .22
3. Fully modified and reduced volume valve. Flat topped by me!
4. re-shaped valve stem for maximum airflow
5. Transfer port is a nylon spacer - OD= 1/4" ID= .180 barrel and valve drilled out to .180 as well.
6. Mellon flow-thru bolt with standard handle - ft bolt has been drilled out to match up with the barrel/transfer port size (.180) and alignment perfectly
7. Mellon FT piston.
8. Mellon solid pin kit.
9. Dura-coat Flat Black paintjob on airtube, shroud, grips and forearm
10. Domestic 10m Grips and matching forearm made and stippled by me.
11. Takedown stock and custom power adjuster made by the user Yel01Z06 - very nice work!
12. Full 1" OD barrel shroud. approx 4" of baffling. made by Glen Suzuki aka tinker on the capof. beautiful work.
13. Pinned valve by use of 10-24 set screws, to eliminate valve movement.
14. Older all-metal crosman gripframe installed.
15. Stace Roller trigger
16. All trigger components contact points polished.
17. Beeman red dot scope.
18. Viton 90 Durometer o-ring
Hello , i was wondering what u did to make your stock piston and valve into a flat top ? Like what tool you used what u added or took away etc...
I am currently working a 1377 and dont have fund for a flatop mod so im trying to do as much modding with diy stuff and easy resources ... But i digress ....
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you just resurrected a 3 year old thread
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Lol i need info :)
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Very nice work!
Like the Take-down exposing the RVA.
Very nice wood work also!
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you just resurrected a 3 year old thread
Zombie thread!
"Brains, brains, brains".
One positive aspect of resurrecting this thread is the rehash of information on pinning the valve and the reason why when using a poly transfer port tube with high pumps counts.