GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Crosman Airguns => Topic started by: splitbeing on April 07, 2025, 10:58:17 AM
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For fifty bucks and change, I couldn't resist. I have had bad luck with repeaters. A proxima refurb stopped working a few mags in, sent it back, got it back, same problem happened, gave up on the customer service. A synergis elite seemed great at first, then I discovered the rail was so off I couldn't get the included scope or one of my other scopes work so I returned it. I've read of some with the magfire ultra having a similar scope problem. Not holding high hopes, but I am repeater curious. For fifty bucks and change, why not. Here we go!
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I’m “gun shy”. I have purchased too many dud springers. Every time I buy another one I think “The triumph of optimism over experience.” :P
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SPOILER ALERT: Don't read until AFTER you get your $53 Mag Fire Ultra!
Crosman Vital Shot 177 vs MagFire Ultra 177
VitalShot is very basic b19 style coil spring break barrel. No scope included. Clearance price ~$63. VERY dry and TWANGY shot cycle right out of the box. Simple cleaning and relube made it feel like an NP nitrogen gas spring rifle. Shoots CPHP 7.9 grain around 950fps. Accuracy is 20 pellets under a penny at 30' using open sights. Very little sight adjustment needed to be dead on target. Stock fits me well. Feels like a small rifle (thought it was a youth springer when I first opened the box) and weight is on the lighter side for a mostly steel and polymer air rifle. Trigger is surprisingly good as-is. About 3-4 lb pull with only a little creep. I think a simple spring change and a slightly longer adjustment screw will make the trigger feel very nice.
Overall I am pleasantly surprised by this SIMPLE springer and its performance!
MagFire Ultra is a large stock HEAVY break barrel powered by the NitroPiston Elite system. Clearance price around $53 with AO scope. Supposedly Crosman's best power plant(?) with precision machined buttoned piston design. I believe this includes their patented anti-bounce piston "brake" polymer donut? The single 12 shot magazine is clunky to load. Magazine cycling action works fine but the "transfer port" is a long and skinny tube. IMO this is a significant bottleneck for airflow to pellet. More than one seal to leak also. Works now but seems like it could be a maintenance headache down the road. Many little fiddly parts to bend or break. Not certain how reliable this will be over time.
If the magazine breaks or magazine cycling parts get damaged I think this rifle becomes useless.
Testing open sights at 30' using CPHP was interesting. Rear sight needed to be bottomed out "low" and windage adjusted almost full right. Groups were a little over 1" with average velocity around 910fps. Seems weak for such a large heavy rifle with Crosman's best powerplant?
Cocking is very smooth and easy. Shot cycle is a gas spring single thump but the THUMP is strong. Feels more like my Hatsan Mod125 Vortex thump. Trigger is not terrible but it is heavy 5+ lbs and very creepy. Really needs a lighter spring and some serious sear/lever polishing.
The sound reducing baffle assembly unscrews from the muzzle. I've used similar in some empty PCP shrouds and the baffles DO WORK WELL in those PCP rifles. Not certain if this does much in a medium energy springer. I did temporarily remove the baffle assembly to inspect muzzle crown. Hard to see deep in the shroud but it doesn't look like there is a crown :-/
Overall I am disappointed by this rifle but very happy I did not pay more than ~$53 for it. Assuming the scope is worth about $30 the rifle is ~$23. That's the value I'd assign to this air rifle right now :-(
Springers are supposed to be SIMPLE air rifles with few moving parts and minimal number of seals to wear out. This Frankenstein's Monster multishot springer "improvement(?)" is IMHO going in the WRONG DIRECTION.
At a retail of over $200 I'd much rather have a PCP + Handpump + 10 tins of pellets than this "thing".
IMO the Vital Shot is the clear winner here.
I honestly hope the folks who got the ~$53 MF Ultra deal will have a better experience with them than I did.
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Last bargain gun I couldn't resist was the hatsan 95 in .25 for $70. Needs a tune. What with the baby and me not knowing the internals of hatsans, haven't gotten around to tuning it.
If this magfire ultra doesn't work out, maybe I'll get to the 95 or convince one of you two to do it for me [chuckling].
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Last bargain gun I couldn't resist was the hatsan 95 in .25 for $70. Needs a tune. What with the baby and me not knowing the internals of hatsans, haven't gotten around to tuning it.
If this magfire ultra doesn't work out, maybe I'll get to the 95 or convince one of you two to do it for me [chuckling].
Bargains are hard to resist but I have remained steadfast so far no matter how cheap they are 👍
My budget for bargains just goes to good parts, making them look better, and pellets but that’s just me ???
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Smart strategy, Rick!
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Reminds me of a hatsan
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6 shots. High 849. Low 839. First 3 shots exactly 838.8. Imagined I might get a freak ES of zero. [chuckling]. Nope! Still good though.
The recoil is heavy but nice. Straight back and forward. Also pretty quiet. The trigger is usable. Clear second stage. Predictable and smooth enough.
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I made it through a night of shooting. The magfire ultra has a scope usably atop it and is still working. That makes it better than my former hatsan proxima refurb (twice) and my former umarex synergis elite.
The trigger is heavy. The barrel cannot easily be cleaned with weedeater line and a straw, so it's still factory "clean".
After trying a variety of holds, 12 shots are likely to go in the black of an NRA fifty foot target at about that distance.
The 12 shot mag is delicate and nice to use nicely. The clicks are positive and the loading becomes intuitive.
It is difficult to see the shot count window past the rear sight. The windage knob on the rear sight is backwards compared to my general experience with rear sight windage adjustment knobs.
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My first springer back in mid 2,000s made me disinterested in airguns.
In 2020 I dug out of the closet and shot it some. I was cured. I gave it to my #2 son.
No, I don’t hate him. I also gave him my c362.
We all have our own budget. I am fortunate to have the ones I have.
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I followed your advice, Mikeyb, and did not read your review until this morning. My experience with the rifle last night was similar to your report I just read today. I also was thinking of the hatsan 125 vortex last night when shooting as a comparison gun. However, writing it now there are onvious differences. The trigger. The magazine. How it likes to be held. On the flip side, the look, weight, and thump are similar.
I also got large groups last night. Thry begam to shrink a bit as I approach 100 shots. This rifle needs broken in. It is shooting around 14 fpe out of the box.
I will try unscrewing the baffle shroud as you describe. Maybe then it will be easier to clean with weedeater line. The straw method was giving me trouble last night.
The trigger is the obvious place to start improving the rifle. Maybe there is a spring to change in there.
I do like the magazine and find the experience of magazine shooting a springer interesting. The mags are delicate but I like them. To each their own. I wonder if they are cheap now or will become a bargain sometime.
Regarding the rear sight, mine needed the elevation lowered alot and the windage turned right alot just like yours.
For $53, I am getting my money's worth playing with this magfire ultra. I doubt it is a contender for my daily spread, but cannot make that judgment until I have spent more time with and put mire effort into the rifle. I suspect it needs a tin of pellets to break in.
The power is nowhere near the advertised. I am disappointed by misleading advertising generally and this is a good example regarding velocities.
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My first springer back in mid 2,000s made me disinterested in airguns.
In 2020 I dug out of the closet and shot it some. I was cured. I gave it to my #2 son.
No, I don’t hate him. I also gave him my c362.
We all have our own budget. I am fortunate to have the ones I have.
Glad you are cured, Kurt. What was the spring gun, if you don't mine my asking?
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Took off the stock to take a look at the trigger. The piece in the pick below fell out when the stock was removed. Anybody know where it does?
Tried a few spots, no dice.
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It likely rests in the stock centering some part of action or trigger.
I'll check my rifle later tonight and attach a photo of proper placement.
Edit... got to it faster than I thought...
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Thanks, Mikey. I figured it out though. Yes, it is behind the trigger.
Shot it some more and noticed the downswing when cocking is very quiet, but the upswing makes a metal on metal scrape/grind kind of noise that now drives me crazy. I think I'm done with it. Is yours noisy like that on the upswing? I don't remember that from last night. Either I didn't notice it or I mucked something up maybe removing the stock. Drivin me nuts. Boy do I appreciate my two other springers I shot right after to feel better. Contrast is amazing.
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Thanks, Mikey. I figured it out though. Yes, it is behind the trigger.
Shot it some more and noticed the downswing when cocking is very quiet, but the upswing makes a metal on metal scrape/grind kind of noise that now drives me crazy. I think I'm done with it. Is yours noisy like that on the upswing? I don't remember that from last night. Either I didn't notice it or I mucked something up maybe removing the stock. Drivin me nuts. Boy do I appreciate my two other springers I shot right after to feel better. Contrast is amazing.
The NitroPiston Elite MagFire Ultra is buttery (mmmm BUTTER) smooth on the cocking stroke. Mine has a slight metal scraping-like sound on the return stroke. On MY rifle it is coming from the auto-pellet-loading parts. It had that same sound both before and after I removed the action from the stock to check the metal part placement.
That sound is not loud or annoying to me, but it is present. I'm not hating the rifle... it does have a firm but pleasant shot cycle. It just seems WEAK... lower Muzzle Energy than expected from the size and weight of the rifle. Punched some more paper with it last night after reassembly. Still can't get get any better than 1" groups at 30'. IMO that is NOT GOOD for any springer at 30'. Every other springer I own will group 10-20 pellets "under" a US penny (0.75" dia) at 30' using open sights.
Just finishing up repairing a POS(as received) Hatsan Zada refurb. I'll post about that mess soon. Then I think I'll have to do a deep-dive into the MagFire's power plant.
The large group size may be due to a bad muzzle crown. I seem to be a MAGNET for crappy-crowns lately. If the poor grouping is related to the magazine, the auto-pellet-loading parts, and the LONG-SKINNY-TUBE transfer port there may be NO FIX.
Since I LIKE working on air rifles I have no regrets spending the $53 to finally see first-hand what the Crosman Patent lead to.
Remembering this thread...
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=183362.msg156091348#msg156091348
If I can make the rifle shoot "proper" springer groups I'll post my adjustments and put a link in this thread :-)
late edit:
https://nightgalaxy.com/blog/crosman-magfire-ultra-air-rifle-review/
the Crosman Mag-Fire Ultra integrates advanced Nitro Piston Elite technology for superior accuracy, speed, and power.
I suspect the NPE powerplant would do MUCH BETTER in a traditional ONE SHOT break-barrel. The design of the multi-shot system seems to CHOKE airflow to the pellet degrading a potentially NICE powerplant. Just my hypothesis for now until I go inside :-)
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Thanks for checking, Mikey. Yes, keep us posted!
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My first springer back in mid 2,000s made me disinterested in airguns.
In 2020 I dug out of the closet and shot it some. I was cured. I gave it to my #2 son.
No, I don’t hate him. I also gave him my c362.
We all have our own budget. I am fortunate to have the ones I have.
Glad you are cured, Kurt. What was the spring gun, if you don't mine my asking?
Gamo Varmint .177
When my son brought it back so I could put a better scope on it I also gave it a paint brush tar job. That did tame some of the buzz.
It was an uneducated purchase, though it still works after 20 years.
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Standing the test if time!
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My $.02 on Crosman NPE rifles that are down on power out of the box. There is a very (very) good chance the piston seal has one or more pieces missing from the edge. They don't deburr the slots on the underside of the tube during assembly, and installing the seal slices the seal lip off in spots. The cure is disassemble, deburr, and a new seal. After that I cleaned up my transfer port and put a more powerful nitro piston in mine, from some place in Ukraine.
The above got my .22 Valiant (NPE) to shoot a 10 shot average of 1043 fps with H&N FTT Green pellets (9.57 gn) and 902 fps with 11.9 gn RWS Hobby wadcutters. The only NP rifle I've gotten to hit (Exceed, actually) the factory ratings is a Benjamin NP XL in .25. It's had the port worked, a stronger NP installed, a Jim Maccari piston seal, teflon buttons installed, metal to metal contact points all burnished with tungsten disulfide powder, and the tungsten disulfide mixed with Mobil 1 5w/30 for assembly lube. It will send 16.54 gn Predator GTO pellets out at 1000+ fps.
All my NP rifles, (5 of them) were a lot of fun to mod, all had bad piston seals out of the box, and they're all harder on piston and breech seals than is optimal. Big fun, but I've had about all the fun I can stand. My next rifle will be PCP. >:(
For the same fun on a much smaller budget, I put a nitro piston for the Crosman Valiant in a Vantage when I replaced the seal. It's a few millimeters longer, but works with zero problems in mine. It delivers 80-90% of the Valiant's OEM performance for about $130 total investment, and it has a nice wood stock, because I don't like plasticky rifles.
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Have you tried the NP in any other, even non-crosman rifles, Alton?
Hmmm.... curious what PCPs you are considering.
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No, I haven't tried any other NPs. I sort of stumbled in to airguns a few Christmases ago when my daughter moved to the mountains and took up hunting rabbits. I got her a Benjamin NP XL, and a couple months later I bought the Valiant for me so we'd have something for some father/daughter time. It snowballed from there. LOL I now have her Benjamin, the Valiant, my own Benjamin NP XL in .25, and the Vantage. I got a Shockwave in .22 for my girlfriend, and it's probably the nicest shooter of the bunch. Almost as much power as the modded Vantage, but it's quieter, shoots much smoother, and all the moving parts feel like they're on bearings. Except the trigger. I don't much like the Shockwave's trigger, but it doesn't get in the way of the accuracy. All I did was change the NP to an NPE and pay attention to every point of friction between parts. Sanding, mixing my own lube, trial fit, rinse and repeat until it has that slick feeling operation you get from machinery with many, well maintained, hours on it.
For PCP I've been looking at the Air Venturi Avenger and Avenge-X. Great reviews, and what seems to be great pricing on some accurate and hard hitting rifles. The availability of wood stocks on either one is also a big plus for me.
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Update (long one!):
Tearing down this rifle for no other reason than I'm curious.
Lots of GREASE for a gas spring rifle. Made in China so extra grease likely added to prevent corrosion during long sea voyage and warehouse storage?
I measured 33mm OD tube with 29mm piston seal. I always get a twinge of annoyance when Gamo stresses their 33mm tube. That's OD for their tube also :-/
Stroke length, as best as I can MEASURE, is 102mm (the typical 4"). Same as the old B19 engine.
Overall swept volume is ~35% LARGER for this rifle over the old B19.
The piston is buttoned! However the "buttons" appear to be steel AND are FLUSH with the rest of the piston body. WHAT? That's completely USELESS! Since the "pockets" are already drilled I may try to clean them out and insert some fitted UHMWPE buttons.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/gallery/38157-150425083043-98221589.jpeg)
Maybe the button design INTENT was not properly conveyed to the China factory? Whatever the reason this is another good design idea that was a FACTORY FAIL.
Piston is welded and then machined. Pretty heavy also. I think better than the average crimped-head-pistons, but not by much.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/gallery/38157-150425083041-98191453.jpeg)
AND... NO polymer-donut piston-BRAKE!
I've been curious how they implemented the brake IDEA since I first saw their videos.
To be fair, I'm certain that an anti-piston-bounce mechanism is mostly a SOLUTION LOOKING FOR A PROBLEM. I think this one was a good idea because it's the simplest one I've seen and may actually be able to brake the piston bounce without breaking itself!
However, all my simulations indicate even an "ideal" piston-bounce-brake would have a BARELY MEASURABLE impact on rifle performance. If the Crosman brake-donut design adds too much cost and/or CAUSES MORE PROBLEMS than it solves I'm not surprised it was omitted here.
OR... is this a design idea that was another FACTORY FAIL?
Gas Spring is part number B24-00-7 oriented with the BODY inside the piston resting on a small steel button. Looks like the button was added to get proper PRELOAD on the Gas Spring? Another FACTORY FAIL PATCH?
There is a traditional transfer port measuring
~3mm ID
~15 mm Length
... then there is the ADDED auto-feed transfer TUBE measuring
~3mm ID
~63mm Length
There is a typical breech seal AND an internal barrel o-ring to seal the transfer tube to the bore.
This mechanism SEATS the pellet ~2.5mm deep into the breech.
With this system there is no "cork to POP". In a normal springer the pressure builds HIGH until the pellet POPS the leade and gets a big KICK START down the bore. We all should know by now that seating a pellet deep into the breech eliminates this POP and reduces muzzle velocity.
Deep seating pellets MAY help with shot-2-shot consistency but it will lower muzzle energy. I don't normally seat pellets deeper than FLUSH with the breech face in ANY of my springers.
The total volume of the transfer tube+port is ~5x larger than normal which means the THEORETICAL PEAK PRESSURE is 5x LOWER in this rifle. Not good.
IMO this super-long (large volume) transfer tube is severely limiting the potential muzzle energy POSSIBLE considering the increased swept volume of this larger engine. Remember, the SPRING is the energy SOURCE. The swept volume of air is only the TRANSFER FLUID, but there needs to be ENOUGH air to transfer that spring energy to the pellet.
B19s can shoot up to ~18fpe under good working conditions.
That means THIS PLATFORM should be able to shoot up to 24fpe.
From the SIZE and WEIGHT of this rifle it really SHOULD be shooting in the 20-24 fpe range, NOT the weak sub-15 FPE measured here.
I don't regret my $53 clearance purchase. It was/is a learning experience and may be one of last Crosman rifles I acquire (waiting to see what happens under new ownership?). I'm going to have some more tinkering FUN with this rifle and may try to see if it performs differently with a coil spring installed :-)
Should anyone be interested in buying this rifle my advice is:
NO! if you just want a repeating springer to shoot. Gamo is a better choice I think.
MAYBE? if clearance priced LOW, AND you are looking for a PROJECT RIFLE or just some Crosman "parts".
Just thinking about how sweet that cheap-simple-small-light-FUN Crosman Vital-Shot coil spring rifle performed after a simple cleaning/relube. Now THAT is what a cheap springer SHOULD BE!
Very educational dissecting this beast. The MagFire Ultra really IS a Frankenstein's Monster of springers ;-)
I do enjoy ALL of my OTHER Crosman rifles. In that respect Crosman has done an EXCELLENT JOB for a very long time. I've been a fan since the early 1970s. This is the first time I can recall that I would advise AGAINST buying a particular Crosman rifle :-(
Cheers :-)
edit: Piston seal was fine, no assembly damage from sharp edges. Gas spring MAY be weak (leaky?) but I'm pretty confident the multi-shot design is the fpe killer here.
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Wow! I know so much more about this rifle now! Thanks, Mikey!
Is there anything you can think of doing to address the tranfer bottleneck?
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Hope you don't mind that I'm adding to this MagFire Ultra thread.
Quick/short update...
Piston "buttons" looked like blackened steel but were a black polymer. Since they were flush (or below flush) with the piston body the factory buttons did NOTHING. I easily drilled out the black polymer (moly loaded poly?) and will replace with some UHMWPE* which is almost as slippery as Teflon (PTFE). I didn't push too hard on the drill press because I did NOT want to drill the blind button hole clear through. Regardless, the piston steel IN THAT AREA felt like it had been HARDENED. I believe it is common practice to harden/temper the skirt area to minimize wear. The trigger latch force/area is quite large in spring-piston air guns.
More later :-)
*Why I prefer UHMWPE in this case.
https://info.slideways.com/blog/uhmw-vs-teflon-packaging-machinery-conveyor-applications
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Keep the info comin, Mikey! This thread is the best source of magfire ultra info on the web to my knowledge, primarily due to your investigative reports. We've come this far, keep postin' here, magfire foreman!
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Another (long) Mag-Fire Ultra update:
No piston buttons yet.
Have TEMPORARILY replaced the gas spring with a custom spring guide and an old (weak) coil spring I had that just happens to fit the rifle internals. With the coil spring the rifle is shooting at ~7.5 fpe, or about HALF of what the factory gas spring was shooting. Obviously cocking effort is LIGHT and shot cycle is a very mellow thump. As-is it would make an EXCELLENT youth springer for ADULT SIZED children. Wait... that's ME!
Accuracy has not improved.
Shot cycle is actually refreshingly PLEASANT, but the gas spring will be going back in soon. This was mostly research to determine internal dimensions in case I wanted to try a coil spring in the future.
Trigger was really crunchy/creepy so I polished a couple rough sear lever surfaces. Added a slightly longer adjustment screw with a rounded and polished tip. Added a couple extra polished washers to minimize some sear side2side slop. Polished the large burrs off some factory installed wobble washers that were TOO TIGHT and adding to the trigger pull effort. All the little changes did lower the trigger force but it is still a little higher than I prefer and trigger blade travel to release seems LONG to me. Blade travel IS much smoother after the polishing.
I get no first stage because the adjustment screw on this Clean Break trigger is PART of the trigger blade. With my longer screw adjusted all the way IN the sear overlap is about 0.030". That is as SMALL as I'm willing go on a springer trigger. In my experience less than 0.030" overlap risks a hair-trigger or a bump-fire. On the older Crosman trigger the adjustment screw preloads a lever from the trigger frame. That, and a lighter trigger blade spring, can provide a super light (fake) first stage which shortens the trigger blade travel for the 2nd stage to release.
The Clean Break trigger IS easier to disassemble/assemble and only has one (1) coil spring. The older style trigger has three (3) torsion springs and it can be difficult to work on getting all the springs and sears properly located/positioned. I KNOW WHY Crosman liked the new trigger design. Less parts & easier to assemble means more profit. I still prefer the older style because I can get exactly the trigger "feel" I like from it.
Important info regarding wadcutter pellets...
I loaded the Mag-Fire magazine with some Excite Plinking wadcutters. Got 4 shots almost in the same hole then DRYFIRES. Auto load mechanism was JAMMED CLOSED. It would not open to cycle next pellet. Managed to get it unjammed and a sliced pellet skirt "hoop" fell out. Tried shooting the rest of that magazine and got more jams, dryfires, and lead hoops. Apparently the bore LOVES these pellets but the autofeed HATES them!?
Cleaned out all (or so I thought) the leads hoops and lead fragments and reloaded the magazine with round nose Daisy/Winchesters. Got through one magazine with scattered 1.5" group (pretty lame). Next magazine was inserted and the auto-loader was jammed before I could even cycle the first pellet. That's enough of that.
Took the action out of the stock and removed the barrel from the action so I could get better access. Found another lead hoop (pretty certain from the wadcutters) interfering with the loader cycle. THEN I looked closely at the internal bore o-ring and saw something SHINY. ANOTHER lead hoop EMBEDDED in the o-ring groove along WITH the o-ring! I fished out the o-ring and after some EXTENDED probing with a dental pick finally got that LAST lead hoop out of the o-ring groove.
Lubed loader parts with some light oil and reassembled rifle. Loader is back to cycling round nose pellets with NO PROBLEMS. Won't be trying wadcutters in the magazine again.
This reinforces my opinion that the added complexity of an autoloading springer can be a giant PITA!
I really like the feel of the stock and I like the size and potential of the large powerplant. I really WANT to like this rifle... but I'm just NOT liking the magazine & autofeed on this springer!
At this time I can't think of an EASY way to bypass this "defect".
Have one pretty drastic idea to move the barrel all the way back to the transfer port and completely bypass that autoloader MESS. Not a reversible change and will likely need some luck and a hydraulic press.
As previously stated I think the A/O scope is worth about $30 so my cost for the rifle itself was about $23. That's GOOD because I may have to get medieval on this rifle.
In the past I've only slightly modified springers to get them shooting the way the manufacturer intended. This one I'm probably going to SCRAP much of what the manufacturer intended and substitute how "I" think the rifle SHOULD perform.
Good or bad results, it will be educational ;-)
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Great updates, Mikey!
Studiously taking mental notes, following along!