GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => BB Guns and Such => Topic started by: Mswen07 on January 06, 2025, 02:20:18 AM
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I bought a Daisy 416 a few months ago and have been shooting it almost every day. And it's not bad, for a $30 bb gun, but I'd like to get something that is a bit more accurate. I like the price of BBs, but what kind of accuracy can I realistically expect from a smoothbore pistol? From 20-30' the Daisy can put most shots into a 6" target or a can, but trying to hit a 1" bullseye from any distance can be pretty frustrating. I don't plan on buying a bb rifle for a few years, at least. I have a Gamo Pellet Rifle that I really like, so I have .177 pellets. I've been wondering about whether to start with a pellet pistol, and just use the Daisy for plinking and introducing my son to shooting? What about bb/pellet pistols? And what are some recommendations for a more accurate bb pistol, now or down the line?
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BBs and BB guns are generally not vey accurate.
Based on your comments I think a Crosman 1377 would work nicely for you and your son.
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My son was born just before Christmas, so it's going to be a few years before he can even hold a bb gun. Rn I've got my eye on an Umarex NXG bb shotgun, for the earliest birthday my wife will let me buy it for him. Even I want to play with it, so I'd think a ~5-7yo would have a blast running around plinking with that gun.
Thanks for the rec on the Crosman 1377. I'm okay with the idea of letting him shoot my pellet guns under supervision, but I'd kinda like to start him off on bbs, just to make sure he learns some basic safety rules (like don't shoot our cats or have bb gun wars with friends) before letting him loose with a pellet gun. And I do remember that pumping a multi-pump to full power can be difficult for young kids, which is a bit reassuring.
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The CO2 BB pistols are sort of addictive -- you get used to that pop pop pop rapid fire and don't want to give that up. But most precise pistols are going to be single shot pellet. BBs are inherently bad for target shooting -- with smoothbore BB rifles they shoot at 15 feet to give you some idea.
I'd suggest a Beeman/Marksman P17 -- for you. It's also known as a "2004." It's a quite precise for it's cost single-stroke pneumatic pellet pistol. Takes quite a bit of effort to close/charge, so your kid won't be able to do it -- til in the double-digits I'd guess. No matter, once you start shooting, you'll be well down this airgun rabbit hole and able to choose a starter pistol for junior (or hand one down.) :)
Crosman 1377 pumper and 2240 CO2 are worth considering, too.
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P-17 all day long
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a few years ago when I had one, the Daisy 1200 did it for me. The one I had came with adjustable sights for windage and elevation, co2, was a single shot that held 60 bbs in the reservoir (as I remember). You had a latch under the barrel you had to cock for each shot. Plastic grips but they felt good in your hand.
they are still out there
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P-17 all day long
Thirded! It's a well-made Chinese clone of the Weihrauch HW40. Incredibly accurate and easy to hold and shoot. Amazing trigger. 430 FPS with a 7.2-grain pellet.
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/09/beeman-p3-air-pistol-part-1-2/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/09/beeman-p3-air-pistol-part-1-2/)
Just be sure to push the "hammer" latch in fully before firing while the gun wears in or it can "pop open" when you fire it. It won't cause any danger or damage, it's just is annoying if it happens. IMHO, the latch spring should be stronger, but it's not a big deal to just push it forward with your thumb as the final part of the loading process during break-in.
-W
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Ordered a P-17 last night.
I also have a Crosman 2240 a friend gave me that doesn't work. It keeps draining the CO2 cartridge as soon as I pull the trigger once, but I have another thread for that.
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P-17 all day long
I remember GTA members hoarding them when Amazon sold them for less than $10 ???
That was probably 4 years or so ago.
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a few years ago when I had one, the Daisy 1200 did it for me. The one I had came with adjustable sights for windage and elevation, co2, was a single shot that held 60 bbs in the reservoir (as I remember). You had a latch under the barrel you had to cock for each shot. Plastic grips but they felt good in your hand.
they are still out there
I found some of these on eBay. Wish they still made them. I'll have to keep it in mind, but I wanted some pellets as well and didn't want to wait for an auction to end.
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P-17 all day long
I remember GTA members hoarding them when Amazon sold them for less than $10 ???
That was probably 4 years or so ago.
$7.50 to be exact.
I purchased eight.
-W
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P-17 all day long
I remember GTA members hoarding them when Amazon sold them for less than $10 ???
That was probably 4 years or so ago.
$7.50 to be exact.
I purchased eight.
-W
Oh, there you are 😂
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P-17 all day long
I remember GTA members hoarding them when Amazon sold them for less than $10 ???
That was probably 4 years or so ago.
$7.50 to be exact.
I purchased eight.
-W
Oh, there you are 😂
I've been caught! :D
-W
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My pistol is delayed. Stupid snow. Stupid UPS, worrying about the safety of their drivers.
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P-17 all day long
I remember GTA members hoarding them when Amazon sold them for less than $10 ???
That was probably 4 years or so ago.
$7.50 to be exact.
I purchased eight.
-W
I purchased several times and ended up with 24. Over time I gave some away and sold some for a small profit
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P-17 all day long
I remember GTA members hoarding them when Amazon sold them for less than $10 ???
That was probably 4 years or so ago.
$7.50 to be exact.
I purchased eight.
-W
I purchased several times and ended up with 24. Over time I gave some away and sold some for a small profit
Agh, that's too much, ha3x 😁
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I still have my P-17. Superb trigger and very accurate short-range... Probably among the best "value per dollar" in qirgunning.
Otherwise not really something I enjoy shooting when I have my Blue Streak, 392, 2400KT and 1322 carbine stored in the same locker. None of those are pistols, but right next to the P-17 are my PP700 and PP750 SPA PCP pistols. The 700 is down for maintenance, but the 750 is a laser out to 30 yards- and is a repeater.
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Got the Beeman. One minor complaint, the highs here have been, at best, below freezing, and in the teens or single digits some days. So, having to load every pellet by hand (I use a pellet pen w my rifle) takes some of the fun out of it, at least until it gets warmer. But there aren't many single-shot pistols that can be used with a pellet pen, esp pistols that are affordable and decent quality, so it's a pretty minor issue.
I do like the fact that it shoots more than just Wadcutters, esp since I have some Gamo points that have lousy accuracy beyond 30' w my rifle (they seemed to do a bit better from the pistol this morning), and target shooting from 30' with a rifle feels like playing a game on easy.
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On my P17 I drilled/dremeled a hole in the back above the trigger so I can use my pellet pen to load it works great, I shoot it at least once a day.
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This reminded of something I'd been wondering about. I've always heard that CO2 gets weaker when it gets colder. I got my bb pistol last Fall. The magazine holds 22 bbs. It's supposed to get about 65 good shots/cartridge (3 mags). When it's in the 40s-50s & sunny, I can catch glimpses of BBs during the 3rd mag, then it starts dramatically losing power (like bouncing off a cardboard box) sometime during the fourth mag. But it seems like when it drops below freezing, I can get up to 4 full mags (80-90 shots) with pretty good power.
Does anyone know anything more about this? Or have you had similar experiences? If I were to guess, I'd say at a certain point, the cold results in less CO2 leaking off? But that's just a guess?
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On my P17 I drilled/dremeled a hole in the back above the trigger so I can use my pellet pen to load it works great, I shoot it at least once a day.
That's an excellent idea. Think you could load a pic?
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This reminded of something I'd been wondering about. I've always heard that CO2 gets weaker when it gets colder.
...
Does anyone know anything more about this? Or have you had similar experiences? If I were to guess, I'd say at a certain point, the cold results in less CO2 leaking off? But that's just a guess?
The vapor pressure of liquid CO2 drops a lot with temperature:
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I would also throw in the new ruger mark4. breakbarrel pistol that is not hard to cock and it is decently enough to shoot 1 in at 10 yards. adjustable sights and all.
I have a 415 and it can also shoot about 1.5 in groups at 30 ft, but you need to work on your technique. and that may be a bit tough for kids. (pull trigger till you feel hammer set, then hold and aim, and then pull through).
But best deal is the good ole Brodax. you can set the trigger (single action), and even though the sights are not adjustable, a little dab of white paint on the front sight will get you to be more predictable with your accuracy. They are also the hardest hitting BB pistol out there, bar none. It will hit and drill cans at 25 yards all day long
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On my P17 I drilled/dremeled a hole in the back above the trigger so I can use my pellet pen to load it works great, I shoot it at least once a day.
...Think you could load a pic?
Nm. I figured it out. Took maybe 15-20 mins with a couple of needle files and works perfectly. Couldn't look at the gun right then as I was feeding the kid. Assuming you meant "above the hammer" rather than the trigger, though? Otherwise we did 2 entirely different things.
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On my P17 I drilled/dremeled a hole in the back above the trigger so I can use my pellet pen to load it works great, I shoot it at least once a day.
That's an excellent idea. Think you could load a pic?
here ya go
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I think you did it just like me
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On my P17 I drilled/dremeled a hole in the back above the trigger so I can use my pellet pen to load it works great, I shoot it at least once a day.
That's an excellent idea. Think you could load a pic?
here ya go
Sacrilege!
But still a potentially useful modification...
-W
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On my P17 I drilled/dremeled a hole in the back above the trigger so I can use my pellet pen to load it works great, I shoot it at least once a day.
That's an excellent idea. Think you could load a pic?
here ya go
Sacrilege!
But still a potentially useful modification...
-Wy
Without it, this gun would be collecting dust until at least late Feb-March.
Tomorrow & Friday might be tolerable, but there's no way in *(&^ I'm loading every shot by hand on days like Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday.
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If I did that to my P3 that would be sacrilege
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Update on Accuracy:
Was shooting my rifle and made one heck of a shot w the Beeman. I take most rifle shots at 50'. I have a spot marked where I set the target(s) and a spot each for 30' & 50'. Was packing up and decided to try a shot w the pistol from where I was (50'). You can see the results for yourself.
If you see the stickers on the target, a couple days before that, I was shooting from ~20-30'. Out of 15 pellets, I managed to put one in the red, barely. Then I drilled it from twice as far, on my first try. It'll be some time before I make another shot like that, but now I know I can't blame the gun.
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I think you did it just like me
Yeah, the results look basically the same.