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Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => 3D printing and files => Topic started by: subscriber on December 20, 2024, 12:57:31 PM
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Some filaments such as those containing carbon fiber or glass fiber are very abrasive, rapidly wearing out printer nozzles. This is where nozzles made from an industrial diamond are useful:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61MskLUBs4L._SL1500_.jpg)
You can buy them from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/stores/USSynthetic/page/079E7A52-4F37-45E6-AD43-607FC386C7F2?&linkCode=sl2&tag=three04-20&linkId=27a1deeba084650f3af41e2fce2ba605&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o5RprIJmfA
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I did quite a bit of reading about these, and besides being the hardest material, they have a far better conduction of heat.... whereas Ruby (2nd hardest) is the worst conductor.... I just wish they weren't so expensive, and I wish the harder nozzles were available in 0.5mm.... I think that would be the ideal size for printing Carbon Fibre.... I am now using a line width of 1.5X the nozzle diameter, which increases the inter-layer bonding a lot, and allows a greater overhang angle without support.... That means my choices are 0.20mm height x 0.60mm width, or 0.30mm height x 0.90mm width.... The latter prints twice as fast, but with more noticeable layer lines.... I have tried printing at 0.25mm high, which is necessary in CF if you are only printing 0.4mm wide (to get proper flow with the CF), but I have found that if you increase the pressure in the nozzle by printing wider you can get away with the 0.2mm height no problem....
If anyone finds hardened steel nozzles (or other hard ones) in 0.5mm, please let me know.... I have a "Spider" hot end (stock in my Ender 5 S1).... The nozzles are 16.8mm long....
Bob
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Bob,
Thermal conductivity would seem rather important for 3D printer nozzles, so thanks for that bit of info.
I did a 15 minute search for hardened steel nozzles with a 0.5 mm bore and 16.8 mm length. I found nothing, so I sent an email to Stefan of CNC Kitchen on youtube. I asked him if he knew of a source or could suggest how to find such a nozzle. If he replies, I will post the info here.
Otherwise, all I can think of is to take a 0.4 mm hard steel nozzle and open it up with a tungsten carbide mill-drill. Then bring the bore to exact size and improve the finish of the hole by reaming or using gauge pins as hones.
Here is a tungsten carbide 3/6" (4.8 mm) mill-drill intended for hardened steel: https://www.mcmaster.com/8905A12/
Tungsten carbide reamer in 5 mm diameter for hardened steel: https://www.mcmaster.com/30545A69/
While reamers are expensive, pin gauges are cheap. These can be used to determine the nozzle diameter as you enlarge it, and possibly as honing rods (after putting a chamfer on the end, and perhaps some small flats ground on to hold lapping compound). The pins would be spun relative to the nozzle and swept axially, up and down by means of the mill's quill.
Gauge pins:
https://www.mcmaster.com/23055A97-23055A197/
https://www.mcmaster.com/23055A97-23055A196/
https://www.mcmaster.com/23055A97-23055A195/
If the nozzles are around Rc 60, perhaps annealing them before drilling and reaming might be an option. The heat treating them back to desired hardness. Honing to ensure roundness and cylindricity might still be needed to compensate for distortion during quenching.
Or you could make a complete nozzle from A2 tool steel, using high speed steel tools. Then heat to a cherry red and allow to air cool. Followed by a 200 degree C tempering so the nozzle does not chip if you drop it on concrete.
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Another option to match a hardened steel nozzle on the cheap, is to take a cheap brass 0.5 mm nozzle, ream it open 5.05 mm, then electroless nickel plated inside to restore it to 5 mm ID. EN plating uses no electricity, and so the difficulty of plating evenly inside a small hole or tube does not exist.
EN has an as plated hardness of 55 to 60 Rc. Baking the part after plating can increase that to 65 Rc. Plating thickness depends on plating time. Each hour of submersion in the plating solution adds about 0.001" to the surface.
As CF filament printing causes surface abrasion at low "bulk pressure", the hard EN plating does not need to be very thick, as would be achieved with a hardened steel nozzle.
Here a guy uses EN plating to make piston rings more wear resistant:
8 minutes 24 seconds in to this video:
https://youtu.be/D08DaQZzuLg?feature=shared&t=504
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Based on the video below, nozzles wear primarily on the flat face at the bottom, rather than at the nominal extrusion bore. In that case, the NL plating I suggested above should be applied inside and out, back to the top end of the hex head, but not on the threads (unless they have a very loose fit anyway).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvlMeTnjriQ
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi5gA_tDE4Y
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Not the right length, Bob, but a hardened steel 0.5 mm nozzle. Perhaps contacting the manufacturer might reveal a longer version of this one?
www.amazon.com/Genuine-E3D-Hardened-Steel-Nozzle/dp/B07CYWV2VX
Could you make a threaded tube from copper to screw in ahead of this nozzle, of the right length for better thermal transfer? The threaded tube would need a feature so you can unscrew it. Perhaps a slot or external hex feature...
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In reply number 2, somehow my brain slipped a clutch, and as a result the McMaster tools I listed are ten times the diameter required.
Despite that amusing glitch, the principle idea of opening a 0.4 mm steel nozzle to 0.5 by means of appropriate tooling, stands.
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I have some 0.5mm drills coming.... We'll see what happens....
Bob
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Jolly good!
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If you need a tungsten carbide drill bit for that job, this may be an option: https://www.mcmaster.com/3030A51/
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I don't think I'll bother drilling nozzles to 0.5mm, except as an experiment.... You see my wife and I have our 25th Anniversary coming up in January, and my darling just ordered me Diamondback nozzles for my Spider hot end in 0.4mm and 0.6mm.... She gets a new Toaster/Air Frying Oven.... 8)
Incidently, "wife" and "darling" are in this case the same person.... also my best friend and soul mate !!!
Bob
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Good for you, Bob.
It will be interesting to see if the drilled-out nozzle works, unless you want to spend your time using the diamond ones.
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Let's see if I can drill it with the drills I bought....
Bob
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Keep them rpm’s up supahfast!!
Dave
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I tried the tungsten 0.5mm drills I got for Christmas on some 0.4mm hardened steel nozzles I had (they were new).... Here is what the drill looks like, I got a set of 20 from Amazon....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/3850df3c-b679-46ee-81eb-78df103b29a8/c5f65bd8-92a4-45e5-b44b-e62f2c29531b.jpg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/3850df3c-b679-46ee-81eb-78df103b29a8/c5f65bd8-92a4-45e5-b44b-e62f2c29531b.jpg)
The first one I used "Cool Tap" cutting oil and it broke immediately.... The next one I did dry and by advancing the drill 0.025" backing it off and repeating until through it worked perfectly, and the next one the same.... The next one broke on the second advancement of the bit.... I had another brand of nozzle and it broke immediately.... I used a new bit each time, and was running at over 2000 RPM (as fast as my lathe will go).... So, I got 2 usable nozzles from 5 nozzles and 5 drill bits.... Not really worth the cost and hassle on a per nozzle basis....
I am sure these drills would be fine for drilling out brass nozzles, should you want an in-between size, but I wouldn't recommend this on hardened steel....
Now to give these a try and see if I can find any difference printing a 0.25mm high layer with a 0.75mm width between these, a 0.4mm and a 0.6mm.... CF-PETG will be the test filament....
Bob
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Thanks Bob,
Tiny drills are very fragile, so good job on getting two functional nozzles, from only 2000 RPM.
Your print results should be interesting.
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After the delivery company for Amazon (Intelcom/Dragonfly) losing my Diamondback Nozzles, they turned up a block away at a neighbours house!.... Amazon wanted a Police Report to send me more, can you imagine the RCMP coming out to write a report for a missing delivery?.... Anyways, I finally got them, and WOW the packging!!!!
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/3850df3c-b679-46ee-81eb-78df103b29a8/a7b56397-2f72-4073-b010-b45a236bfd9c.jpg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/3850df3c-b679-46ee-81eb-78df103b29a8/a7b56397-2f72-4073-b010-b45a236bfd9c.jpg)
They were packed in screw-top aluminum cans with a clear lid.... I'll bet the packing cost more than a usual nozzle!.... I'm not usually dazzled by bling, nor do I ever purchase the latest and greatest piece of technology, but I'm glad I sprung for these.... I can't wait to try them out.... The instructions say to run a Temperature Tower as the heat conductivity is so good they will likely run at a lower temerature.... Should last forever, right?....
Bob
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Jolly good
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The tip of the Diamondback Nozzles is polished to a high gloss.... That, and the better heat conduction appear to be producing a better surface finish, the layer lines are less noticeable, and PLA parts have a higher gloss.... The two filaments I have tested so far (a Performance PLA and a CF-PETG) both seem to have high strength in the vertical Z axis, so the better heat conduction may be increasing the layer to layer adhesion.... I haven't done enough testing to be sure yet, but so far I am VERY impressed by the printing quality.... and you may be able to print at a bit lower temperature....
Bob
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Win, win, win
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Well, I've been playing around with the Diamondback nozzles, and their advice about running a temperature tower is good advice, at least for the CF-PETG I am printing, which is the 15% CF by Matter3D in Victoria, BC, Canada.... I had to turn the temperature down by 15*C, from 260C to 245C to get rid of stringing and globbing, and I also increased the fan from 30% to 100%.... That resulted in a large increase in the Z (vertical, layer to layer) strength.... I am running a 0.6mm nozzle, and printing either a 0.2mm layer with a 0.6mm width, or a 0.3mm layer with a 0.9mm width (both 3:1, and with the same nozzle).... The vertical (Z) strength is running at 80% of the horizontal (X) strength, which is pretty amazing.... The wider, thicker lines are significantly stronger, as they have always been, but running the fan flat out seems to be hardening the filament and doing good things to the layer-to-layer bonding.... The prints are beautiful, nice and crisp with no stringing.... I'm going to try printing and testing 260*C coupons tomorrow, with the fan at 100%, and see what happens....
Bob
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I did a couple of tests with the 0.6mm Diamondback nozzle, here are the results....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/3850df3c-b679-46ee-81eb-78df103b29a8/0c93c1ee-fe4c-45a8-a498-d2c5785fcba6.jpg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/3850df3c-b679-46ee-81eb-78df103b29a8/0c93c1ee-fe4c-45a8-a498-d2c5785fcba6.jpg)
I know only two datapoints are not the greatest, but all I really wanted to know was if there was an increase or decrease in strength with printing at 260*C (like I used to with a hardened steel nozzles) and at 245*C, which is where the Diamondback nozzles print the nicest.... Thankfully, there was not (in fact the vertical coupons were not quite as strong in the vertical), and the 260*C prints were not as pretty, with a "twig" or two sticking up pointing towards the other coupon (they were printed side by side).... These were easy to cut off, but why print that hot if you don't need to, right?....
My conclusion is that the Diamondback nozzles do need to print at a lower temperature with CF-PETG to prevent stringing, and using 100% fan instead of 30% really improves the vertical (Z) layer-to-layer bonding.... In fact, when printing at a layer height of 0.3mm and a line width of 0.9mm (a 3:1 ratio) the "Z" coupons had a jagged break, and you could not even see the layer lines.... They were 80% as strong as the horizontal (X) coupons printed at the same time....
I am REALLY impressed with the combination of the Diamondback nozzles and the 15% carbon filled CF-PETG from Matter3D Inc. in Victoria, on Vancouver Island, BC.... At $65 CAD per kg. it is one of the least expensive CF-PETG's around, and if you want a cheaper one, they do a 10% which is nearly as good, for just $40/kg.... and those are the regular prices, I got a roll of the 15% on their "Black Friday" sale for just $43 (all prices in CAD, which is currently at $0.69 USD).... If you are going to get a Diamondback nozzle for printing CF filled materials, consider just buying the 0.6mm, and forget the 0.4mm.... You can print beautiful prints from 0.2-0.3+mm layer thickness, and line widths from 0.6-1.0 mm.... That should cover all of your CF printing needs, IMO....
Bob
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I am glad the diamond nozzle works well for you, Bob.
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Bob,
Great tests as always, thanks for trying out this new nozzle. The 0.3 x 0.9 results are a real eye-opener -- I do not recall -- have you tried that size vs 0.2 x 0.6 in regular PETG?
For the pricey diamond nozzle -- it got me thinking -- what makes it print that much better?
Smoothness of the nozzle tip -- I imagine a brass nozzle could be polished, but still not be as smooth. Possibly diamond/molten plastic friction is lower than brass/molten plastic friction as well? Not intuitive, no idea. With my cheapie brass nozzles I do sometimes see faint "chatter marks" on the top surface of a print line as is it laid down -- but do not know if they are due to the nozzle roughness or carriage wheel roughness or extruder pressure... the prints turn out fine, though and maybe that tiny bit of roughness increases layer adhesion, hard to say.
I think the thermal conductivity of the diamond is a bit moot. Copper/brass is pretty good. Hardened steel is awful. This nozzle by nature of NOT being hardened steel is the key. Your hot-end is probably like mine -- has a silicone cover/insulator to keep heat in -- that covers all but the last few mm of nozzle. The diamond is only at the tip, very small surface area, I doubt it contributes much difference to the hotness of the extruded plastic at that point.
Being hard enough to withstand CF is the big plus obviously. I think one of you mentioned the majority of wear is on the nozzle surface parallel to the print bed? Meaning it does wear the brass nozzle shorter, but the 0.40 hole remains essentially the same size until obvious substantial wear has ground it past the cylindrical bore portion at the end of the nozzle? Which would affect the thickness of the first layer of a print, if not Z-adjusted for the wear, but will not affect layer spacing or fusion.
I'm playing devil's advocate I guess -- why I should not outlay half the initial cost of my printer for one of these cool nozzles, when I can get the brass ones for ~30 cents each, or nickel plated copper for about $1 each? Or hardened steel, about $1 each, if my hot-end has the extra range to handle the plus 10-15 degrees C required... (for the CF-PETG above -- it does not...)
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0.3 x 0.9mm is about 40% stronger than 0.2mm x 0.6mm in PETG from a 0.6mm nozzle (in Z), both tested at 260*C where they were the strongest....
Charts from the Diamondback website.... Click to enlarge....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/3850df3c-b679-46ee-81eb-78df103b29a8/fba3be15-09d1-4f2d-9df5-38275cd5aeb2.jpg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/3850df3c-b679-46ee-81eb-78df103b29a8/fba3be15-09d1-4f2d-9df5-38275cd5aeb2.jpg)
You can draw your own conclusions.... The instructions that come with the nozzles say to run a temp. tower because they print at a lower temperature, and they are highly polished on the end where nozzles wear first.... I bought both a 0.4mm and a 0.6mm, but the 0.6mm is all you need if you are only going to use it for CF filled, I think.... Expensive, yes, but certainly do the job.... I think the combination of hotter filament being extruded, plus more fan cooling, works great, but perhaps there is another reason for the increased layer-to-layer bonding I am missing.... All I know is that it works great!.... 300*C maximum, however....
Bob
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I was thinking about getting one of these nozzles so I could try CF PETG. The Diamondback's were listed for $125! Bob is clearly stating the Diamondbacks are good.
I found a different brand, Durozzle, that were $64. Any feedback on these? They are a little more expensive because they use the MK4 Nextruder tubes, rather than just a simple nozzle.
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I paid $94 USD on Amazon for the Diamondback.... The ones for my printer (Spider hot end) from Durozzle are $89, so not a lot of difference.... Ahhhhhhh.... now I found them on Amazon for $60 USD.... They do look similar to the Diamondback....
Ruby nozzles are very hard too, but lousy thermal conductivity.... Like the ads say, a diamond nozzle should outlast your printer....
Bob