GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Guns And Related Accessories Review Gates => Air Gun Review Gate => Topic started by: Whirligig on October 24, 2024, 04:30:05 PM
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Unboxing and first impressions video. (https://youtu.be/KG-6UXF6BYw)
1,000 "Airgun Master Points (non-redeemable)" for anyone who can figure out why CO2 pressure/pellet velocity plummets so quickly. I've confirmed this with a second test with two new CO2 cartridges. I can detect no leaks and there is still some pressure in the gun when I remove the endpiece.
Good luck!
-Whirly
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In my limited experience with a few Beeman single shot and Crosman rotary-clip CO2 rifles too many shots in quick sequence chills the CO2 and reduces pressure. This causes shot string velocity to drop until CO2 and (and gun parts) temperature returns to near ambient. When I SLOWED DOWN my shot strings the velocity became much more consistent.
This was REALLY noticeable on the rotary clip repeater when shots were fired in rapid succession. Another factor "I believe" that made the clip rifle WORSE was that a lot of extra CO2 got wasted/lost through/around the rotary clip making rapid fire velocities decline even faster.
With a 90gram cartridge in the single shot rifle I got hundreds of consistent velocity pellets before shot string velocity started dropping rapidly. I believe that was the point when the liquid CO2 was gone and only CO2 gas remained. The result is very similar to when a regulated PCP rifle goes off-reg.
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In my limited experience with a few Beeman single shot and Crosman rotary-clip CO2 rifles too many shots in quick sequence chills the CO2 and reduces pressure. This causes shot string velocity to drop until CO2 and (and gun parts) temperature returns to near ambient. When I SLOWED DOWN my shot strings the velocity became much more consistent.
This was REALLY noticeable on the rotary clip repeater when shots were fired in rapid succession. Another factor "I believe" that made the clip rifle WORSE was that a lot of extra CO2 got wasted/lost through/around the rotary clip making rapid fire velocities decline even faster.
With a 90gram cartridge in the single shot rifle I got hundreds of consistent velocity pellets before shot string velocity started dropping rapidly. I believe that was the point when the liquid CO2 was gone and only CO2 gas remained. The result is very similar to when a regulated PCP rifle goes off-reg.
I've had the same experience with other CO2 airguns with a rotary clip, such as the Crosman Vigilante, but none of those airguns, even using only 1 CO2 cartridge, would only give me 10-15 shots, no matter how fast I fired 10-pellets mags. I could get at least 35 shots, even firing as fast as I could pull the trigger. Methinks there's something else going on here...
-W
-W
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In my limited experience with a few Beeman single shot and Crosman rotary-clip CO2 rifles too many shots in quick sequence chills the CO2 and reduces pressure. This causes shot string velocity to drop until CO2 and (and gun parts) temperature returns to near ambient. When I SLOWED DOWN my shot strings the velocity became much more consistent.
This was REALLY noticeable on the rotary clip repeater when shots were fired in rapid succession. Another factor "I believe" that made the clip rifle WORSE was that a lot of extra CO2 got wasted/lost through/around the rotary clip making rapid fire velocities decline even faster.
With a 90gram cartridge in the single shot rifle I got hundreds of consistent velocity pellets before shot string velocity started dropping rapidly. I believe that was the point when the liquid CO2 was gone and only CO2 gas remained. The result is very similar to when a regulated PCP rifle goes off-reg.
I've had the same experience with other CO2 airguns with a rotary clip, such as the Crosman Vigilante, but none of those airguns, even using only 1 CO2 cartridge, would only give me 10-15 shots, no matter how fast I fired 10-pellets mags. I could get at least 35 shots, even firing as fast as I could pull the trigger. Methinks there's something else going on here...
-W
I counted 30 pellets in 3 rapid-10 strings, at least 3 "dry-fires( = no mag or pellets left in mag), and 3 trigger pull shots. Yes, velocity start and fast drop were very unimpressive. IMO this is rotary mag inefficiency (leakage), rapid fire chilling, and a heavy hammer(more wasted CO2). There very well could also be CO2 leakage. An OBVIOUS HISS is a huge leak but there could still be a more subtle leak hurting the shot count performance.
Tightening up the mag tolerances to reduce leakage may be possible but seems hardly worth the effort on a $60 plinking toy(IMO).
Experimenting with the hammer spring may also be possible. On several of my PCP rifles the hammer adjust was WAY TOO HEAVY from the factory and dialing it back provided MANY MORE consistent shots per air refill.
I expect ~60 good (fairly consistent for plinking) shots from 2x 12gram CO2 on my SINGLE shot rifles. My Crosman does about 3 mags, but is nowhere near as consistent as the Beeman
UMAREX® CANEX RIFLE .177
Manufacturer: Umarex Airguns
SKU: 2252122
This item may be restricted from shipping to some areas $59.99
Umarex Canex .177 Caliber CO2 Powered Multi-Shot Pellet Rifle
Powered by (2) 12g CO2 Cartridges
700 FPS with 7 grain Lead Pellet
45 Shots with Fresh CO2
(3) 10-Shot
11mm Dovetail Scope Mount
Fiber-Optic Front Sight
Fully Adjustable Rear Sight
Lightweight Polymer Stock
Compare?
Crosman 1077 Co2 Air Rifle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpSNozZV_wI
Ruger 10/22 Umarex Co2 Replica
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szhwy7pd5XA
I agree the rifle seems like it should be performing a little better. At that price point factory construction is efficient (CHEAP) and QC likely non-existent. I'm not too surprised it is performing more like a toy than a real air rifle.
There are GTA members who are experts at tuning/modding CO2 rifles (not I). Hopefully they will chime in with some better words of wisdom :-)
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In my limited experience with a few Beeman single shot and Crosman rotary-clip CO2 rifles too many shots in quick sequence chills the CO2 and reduces pressure. This causes shot string velocity to drop until CO2 and (and gun parts) temperature returns to near ambient. When I SLOWED DOWN my shot strings the velocity became much more consistent.
This was REALLY noticeable on the rotary clip repeater when shots were fired in rapid succession. Another factor "I believe" that made the clip rifle WORSE was that a lot of extra CO2 got wasted/lost through/around the rotary clip making rapid fire velocities decline even faster.
With a 90gram cartridge in the single shot rifle I got hundreds of consistent velocity pellets before shot string velocity started dropping rapidly. I believe that was the point when the liquid CO2 was gone and only CO2 gas remained. The result is very similar to when a regulated PCP rifle goes off-reg.
I've had the same experience with other CO2 airguns with a rotary clip, such as the Crosman Vigilante, but none of those airguns, even using only 1 CO2 cartridge, would only give me 10-15 shots, no matter how fast I fired 10-pellets mags. I could get at least 35 shots, even firing as fast as I could pull the trigger. Methinks there's something else going on here...
-W
I counted 30 pellets in 3 rapid-10 strings, at least 3 "dry-fires( = no mag or pellets left in mag), and 3 trigger pull shots. Yes, velocity start and fast drop were very unimpressive. IMO this is rotary mag inefficiency (leakage), rapid fire chilling, and a heavy hammer(more wasted CO2). There very well could also be CO2 leakage. An OBVIOUS HISS is a huge leak but there could still be a more subtle leak hurting the shot count performance.
Tightening up the mag tolerances to reduce leakage may be possible but seems hardly worth the effort on a $60 plinking toy(IMO).
Experimenting with the hammer spring may also be possible. On several of my PCP rifles the hammer adjust was WAY TOO HEAVY from the factory and dialing it back provided MANY MORE consistent shots per air refill.
I expect ~60 good (fairly consistent for plinking) shots from 2x 12gram CO2 on my SINGLE shot rifles. My Crosman does about 3 mags, but is nowhere near as consistent as the Beeman
UMAREX® CANEX RIFLE .177
Manufacturer: Umarex Airguns
SKU: 2252122
This item may be restricted from shipping to some areas $59.99
Umarex Canex .177 Caliber CO2 Powered Multi-Shot Pellet Rifle
Powered by (2) 12g CO2 Cartridges
700 FPS with 7 grain Lead Pellet
45 Shots with Fresh CO2
(3) 10-Shot
11mm Dovetail Scope Mount
Fiber-Optic Front Sight
Fully Adjustable Rear Sight
Lightweight Polymer Stock
Compare?
Crosman 1077 Co2 Air Rifle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpSNozZV_wI
Ruger 10/22 Umarex Co2 Replica
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szhwy7pd5XA
I agree the rifle seems like it should be performing a little better. At that price point factory construction is efficient (CHEAP) and QC likely non-existent. I'm not too surprised it is performing more like a toy than a real air rifle.
There are GTA members who are experts at tuning/modding CO2 rifles (not I). Hopefully they will chime in with some better words of wisdom :-)
I think everything you wrote is spot on. I just traded in the Canex for another Canex and am re-testing velocities now. Shooting 7.9 grain CPHPs indoors at 74 degrees F, the first 10 shots were in the 550 FPS range, the second magazine gave about 500 down to 487 fps, and now I'm letting the CO2 cylinders warm up as I write this before testing the third magazine.
Neither Canex had any audible hissing.
So, this second Canex seems to be performing significantly better than the first one. I'll wait another 20 minutes for the CO2 to warm up a little, and see what numbers I can get with the third string of 10 pellets.
-W
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In my limited experience with a few Beeman single shot and Crosman rotary-clip CO2 rifles too many shots in quick sequence chills the CO2 and reduces pressure. This causes shot string velocity to drop until CO2 and (and gun parts) temperature returns to near ambient. When I SLOWED DOWN my shot strings the velocity became much more consistent.
This was REALLY noticeable on the rotary clip repeater when shots were fired in rapid succession. Another factor "I believe" that made the clip rifle WORSE was that a lot of extra CO2 got wasted/lost through/around the rotary clip making rapid fire velocities decline even faster.
With a 90gram cartridge in the single shot rifle I got hundreds of consistent velocity pellets before shot string velocity started dropping rapidly. I believe that was the point when the liquid CO2 was gone and only CO2 gas remained. The result is very similar to when a regulated PCP rifle goes off-reg.
I've had the same experience with other CO2 airguns with a rotary clip, such as the Crosman Vigilante, but none of those airguns, even using only 1 CO2 cartridge, would only give me 10-15 shots, no matter how fast I fired 10-pellets mags. I could get at least 35 shots, even firing as fast as I could pull the trigger. Methinks there's something else going on here...
-W
I counted 30 pellets in 3 rapid-10 strings, at least 3 "dry-fires( = no mag or pellets left in mag), and 3 trigger pull shots. Yes, velocity start and fast drop were very unimpressive. IMO this is rotary mag inefficiency (leakage), rapid fire chilling, and a heavy hammer(more wasted CO2). There very well could also be CO2 leakage. An OBVIOUS HISS is a huge leak but there could still be a more subtle leak hurting the shot count performance.
Tightening up the mag tolerances to reduce leakage may be possible but seems hardly worth the effort on a $60 plinking toy(IMO).
Experimenting with the hammer spring may also be possible. On several of my PCP rifles the hammer adjust was WAY TOO HEAVY from the factory and dialing it back provided MANY MORE consistent shots per air refill.
I expect ~60 good (fairly consistent for plinking) shots from 2x 12gram CO2 on my SINGLE shot rifles. My Crosman does about 3 mags, but is nowhere near as consistent as the Beeman
UMAREX® CANEX RIFLE .177
Manufacturer: Umarex Airguns
SKU: 2252122
This item may be restricted from shipping to some areas $59.99
Umarex Canex .177 Caliber CO2 Powered Multi-Shot Pellet Rifle
Powered by (2) 12g CO2 Cartridges
700 FPS with 7 grain Lead Pellet
45 Shots with Fresh CO2
(3) 10-Shot
11mm Dovetail Scope Mount
Fiber-Optic Front Sight
Fully Adjustable Rear Sight
Lightweight Polymer Stock
I agree the rifle seems like it should be performing a little better. At that price point factory construction is efficient (CHEAP) and QC likely non-existent. I'm not too surprised it is performing more like a toy than a real air rifle.
There are GTA members who are experts at tuning/modding CO2 rifles (not I). Hopefully they will chime in with some better words of wisdom :-)
I think everything you wrote is spot on. I just traded in the Canex for another Canex and am re-testing velocities now. Shooting 7.9 grain CPHPs indoors at 74 degrees F, the first 10 shots were in the 550 FPS range, the second magazine gave about 500 down to 487 fps, and now I'm letting the CO2 cylinders warm up as I write this before testing the third magazine.
Neither Canex had any audible hissing.
So, this second Canex seems to be performing significantly better than the first one. I'll wait another 20 minutes for the CO2 to warm up a little, and see what numbers I can get with the third string of 10 pellets.
-W
After giving the CO2 cartridges just a little time to warm up. the third magazine's pellets were coming out the barrel at a pretty consistent 500 FPS again. This is a much different experience than with the first Canex that I exchanged for this one, where the gun couldn't even fire all the pellets in the second magazine.
So, it's not stellar, but it seems to be meeting the criteria that I initially made, which was that it works and can propel a 7.9-grain CPHP at a somewhat consistent 500 FPS.
I'm going to let the airgun sit while I go out for a while, and will resume testing when I return.
-W
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I am carrying this over from the Bargain Gate . . .
OK I had to go to TS for some mouse bait and to possibly buy a new barrel charcoal grill that I saw on sale on line last night. Well they were
out of grills, hmm wonder if I should look for the new airgun of the month ???
Komplete still 199.99 :-\ Oh look they moved the Canex to the close out shelf up top, price still marked $29.99 OK Ill bite, I am going to tear one of these down anyway no matter what LOL
Get to checkout and find there is another $7.50 off 8) SCORE! ;D I am going to start a thread on these, if none found, the new one is doing much better in the first crony string... :o #1 Canex may be the teardown video perhaps too.
I did switch up pellets from a 9.4gr Barra Pointed to AA 10.3gr, if that will be a factor, I will test in Canex #1
#2 Crony 10.3 AA 544, 541, 542, 536, 540, 532, 528,536, 535, 528, reload and play with cat 5 min, 547, 540... TBC ... 559, 538, 545, 534, 535, 536' 533, 522, let it sit 5 minutes, 539, 530, 527, reload mag, 543,529,528,504, 493, 479, 411, and not enough CO2 for valve to function.
Temp 65f 35% humidity
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#1 Canex with 10.3 gr AA pellets. 590, 579, 566, 562, 581, 582, 579, 573, 567, 568, 560, 565, 548, 551, 561, 540, 522, and not enough CO2 to cycle the valve.
In both test shots were space 1 minute apart or so, typically after 3-4 shots I would take a longer 5 minute break, at the end perhaps 10 to let the CO2 warm up the best with lower liquid volume left.
I might try a 13gr pellet or 16 gr slug next :)
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I put together a play list with both good and bad reviews.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLASJo4rBxMIlpdCd4ZyOw6oXV7UH4ASNH
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Here is a picture of the Canex #1 and the PP02 that is a miniature version, I added the stock from a Diana Chaser to get all the accuracy it delivers, many more shots and not as fussy as the Canex.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/gallery/17377-030525160054.jpeg)
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#2 Canex shooting 9.75gr Barra pointed. 534, 517, 549, 564, 567, 559, 576, 568, 580, 550, 558, 549, , 563, 560, 560, 575, 560, 575, 566, 552, 560, 546, 547, 529, 502, 503, 472, 460, 443, 346, 339. Done
Shots were spaced out 1m and 3- 4 shot groups and several minutes to hours rest, had things to do, but this says it could be a handy warm weather garden close range small yard pest gun option ???
#1 will be taken apart and tinkered with in a new post, I stii wonder wht it will do in 75 f temps so tear down will only be a few weeks out hopefully LOL
Here is #2 results from above for the AA 10.3gr.
#2 Crony 10.3 AA 544, 541, 542, 536, 540, 532, 528,536, 535, 528, reload and play with cat 5 min, 547, 540... TBC ... 559, 538, 545, 534, 535, 536' 533, 522, let it sit 5 minutes, 539, 530, 527, reload mag, 543,529,528,504, 493, 479, 411, and not enough CO2 for valve to function.
Temp 65f 35% humidity