GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: grumpy on November 26, 2011, 01:13:00 AM
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I know this is a loaded question but how is the quality of the new BSA's. Was looking at the super ten. Thanks
Dave
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The superTEN is no longer in production to the best of my knowledge but there are places that still have them. The R10 is the newer updated model. My superTEN is a gun that shoots dime sized groups at 50 yards. Sweet trigger, great stock. Only problem is there is no quickfill and no pressure gauge. You can get both of those upgraded by Allen Zasadny for around $200. I have a bottle with the quickfill and it is so much more convienent than unscrewing the bottle. Send me a PM if you need more info
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I know this is a loaded question but how is the quality of the new BSA's. Was looking at the super ten. Thanks
Dave
The older BSA seem to be built to a higher quality standard. My newer Scorpion Carbine didn't look as nicely finished as my older Scorpion, Hornets and Sportsman HV. It wasn't as accurate either. I have also seen pics on the net of pretty rough looking faults making it out of the factory, including a very noticeable off center bore.
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I have owned several BSA PCP's and springers. I find the quality supurb and equal to any other manufacturer's guns on same level of pricing.
I kept two of my favorite rilfes. The BSA Ultra Synthetic and the BSA Lightning XL, both in .177. I only shoot targets now and both shoulder perfect for me and are very accurate per their class.
My Ultra is a fine 12 fpe target rifle. The erganomics fit me perfectly. The thumb and fore finger placement are contoured and very comfortable to shoulder and shoot. It is a carbine which I prefer.
As long as some of the BSA PCP's are still made in England I would not be affraid to purchase another one.
Tylers Super Ten is exactly what it says..:) "SUPER"
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It is hard to fault the British BSA rifles for accuracy. It stands to reason the original(British) home Base is less of an influence on the Product made in Spain than domestic production. The price point alone has a bit of influence but the QC of a volume producer will never be that of a Job shop limited production facility. Gamo seems to have managed to do both fairly well and time will tell if they keep it up.
They dominate the midprice range with the speedy barrel breaks and they would love to have more share of the premium sector but they must keep their eye on the ball and the product developemnt must continue for them to keep up with the Likes of FX. The Brand will not carry them when the competition are working so hard. In a tough marketplace the really savvy manufacturers pick-up market share because they conform to the changing market.
Having to pay British Wages has to sting as it is a lot cheaper to get stuff made in Spain where 60% of the people are working for wine & peanuts and 40% are under employed or unemployed. Like the USA makers the British makers have to move upmarket to capture a smaller market of more discriminating shooters willing to pay a premium. The internet makes that something you cannot fake and legends need to show up at the shoots and validate the fanfare.
If the Premium is worth it the firm will thrive but slapping a 100 year old badge on something doesn't make it great. Guys like Bowkett do that and if they are still driving the development forward and using that knowledge to make a better gun they will continue to make the cut with the guys that shoot a lot and demand a level of accuracy not common to volume production units.
Nobody can compete with the Chinese so we all must move up market and do something a bit more savvy to a particular niche and capture a smaller section of sweeter pie.
I'm always watching what is going on. Tony Belas of Daystate bought 30 ST (smooth twist)barrels from FX and we will see ST on Daystates as an option soon.
Right now it seems Fred @ FX has the other guys covered but that is just my perspective. Hard to know what a BSA or Edgun or even a Theoben would do. They don't show up to play BR with us. The FX guns have and they have impressed for the entry ticket. They seem to me to be the most foriegn bang for the AG buck in the cost is an object category.
I hope one day we get the opportunity to shoot head to head. When a badge gets acquired like BSA did the trend is normally a downward one. If Gamo is smart they will build the brand for the long haul rather than use it up in a Beeeman/Walmart badging scheme.
In 2020 will you be shooting a BSA FT/BR gun or a plastic piece of BSA history not worth the Piled Arms Logo? Stay tuned! Only time will tell. The ride ain't over.
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I agree with most of what you say Tim. Progress in the wrong direction. In any case the cost of the BSA's that are currently made in the UK stands firm with the market per class and category. Gamo being able to build products much cheaper would never consider passing on the savings to anyone just because they can produce them for half the price. And half the quality.
Although I do not keep up with the politics and other stuff like you do I still see Gamo as a pure marketing driven manufacturer. Cutting cost as much as possible and that means ruining a decent name like BSA has had.
I guess if we live long enough we will see an amazing change in our future for air gun quality. I see it as black and white and no gray in the middle...:)
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Here's my take on their latest http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,21124.0.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,21124.0.html) I had a slight problem with the Minelli stock, other than that the gun has been of excellent quality and as accurate as 10M match rifles.
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They look like a Nice rifle.
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The dynamax was made in the UK. From all I have read they are great shooters. Like it has been said, BSA and now Gamo pcps are still being made in the UK
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Dynamax is a BSA sportsman HV with a synthetic stock. If you want a .25 cal look at the bsa lonestars AOA has for sale. Check the table at the end of the link http://www.bsaguns.co.uk/airgun_scorpion_se.php (http://www.bsaguns.co.uk/airgun_scorpion_se.php)
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Since the BSA R10 MKII (MKII printed on the action)
has come out there is a turn around in the general opinion about the BSA R10
from junk to "i will keep this one forever"
Some MKI owners already had that opinion but i read no more negative news only positive news.
I own a R10 .22 MKI FAC and every time i practice I end with a big smile.
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BSA guns are still of good quality. The tooling and shop instructions and material specs were all of BSA/UK origin, despite Gamo ownership. What we don't know is, will any of those controls deteriorate over time under Gamo influence (i.e. Gamo management looking fo greater profit margin from it's BSA division)
Problem is, UK made guns likely have about 37% of their costs just in labor/pensions and the "dole". So, any squeeze on costs is going to be in Spanish labor and more likely, materials and fine finishing costs (blueing, fit and finish) I sure hope not, BSA namesake still has value.
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Brian,
Since Gamo has owned BSA for around 20 years now I would say as long as they keep the UK factory open the quality will remain the same. From speaking to Gamo USA reps it seems that they are very disconnected from the UK division. Since BSAs greatest appeal is and will remain in the UK I'm sure Gamo is happy as long as BSA tips the UK market. It will be interesting to see what happens with Gamo since to me a least their stock in the AG community continues to slip
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My Scorpion Carbine 12fpe single shot is the most accurate and best quality ag that I own.
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My Scorpion Carbine 12fpe single shot is the most accurate and best quality ag that I own.
The barrels are really amazingly good. The only knack is to use 4.52mm or 5.55mm pellets and clean them often enough.
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As I understand it there has been a dip in quality levels starting few years ago. However, they have been working to bring the quality back and the R10 Mk2 and Scorpion SE are said to be of good quality again. Personally I'd say that they are not up to the quality standards of Anschutz or Feinwerkbau, but then again they do not cost that much either and have about as good barrels. The noise reduction is not an issue for BSA's home markets, they provide their barrels with 1/2" thread at the end so everybody just screws in a good moderator there ;)
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I can only speak to my BSA Lonestar which is great quality especially for the price. Excellent accuracy and awesome power.
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I love my gamo dynomax, made by BSA. still top notch.
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Lonestar is a PCP?
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Yes the Lonestar is a high powered .25 PCP with superb accuracy.