GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Crosman Airguns => Topic started by: Gibsonvair on July 31, 2024, 08:44:55 PM
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My groups on both my 3622 and 362 are around 2-1/2" at 25 yards. I have taken Fox squirrels via head shots with both rifles but limit my distance to about 15 yards or so. I was able to take rabbit head shots at 45 and 55yards with the 362 at ten pumps using RWS Superdomes. (not sure how I got that done) I have tried Crosman 14.3 domed and hollow point, H&N 14.66 5.53, 5.45 and 5.55. Also JSB 14.35. Should I keep trying different pellets or tunes? I am a little frustrated. Thinking about trying the old 24" barrel from Crosman. On the positive side, the JSB 14.35's made my 12 ft/lb 2289 a usable 1/2" group rifle at 25 yards. I would love to make the 362 and the 3622 as accurate. That 1/2" grouping at 25 yards is kinda my standard for hunting small game.
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Gibson air,
If the light RSD 14.5, CPUM 14.3, array of FTTs and JSBs are not working, try heavy pellets. If you can try 15.4gr + all the way to 21gr if you can. My two C362s will not group light pellets at all, but alot of the heavy pellets do very good. Gamo Master Country 15.4gr, Apolo Arrow 16gr, HNTerminator 16.3gr, Apolo Domed Heavy 18gr, HNB 18.1gr, HNB Hunter 18.2gr, HNB 21.1gr, are what I have found flies good in my barrels. C2023 does very good w JSB RS 13.4gr and HN FTT 5.53 14.7gr Soo far . C3622 has done good with CPirhanas 14.3gr and AA 16.gr, APT 18gr so far.
All barrels are different and will like different pellets. My barrels that don't do good with light pellets work excellent with heavy pellets.
Have you tightened All of your stock screws, breech screws, barrel band grub screw? Have you looked at the crown on either of your Cros mans? A rough or crooked crown may be throwing your shots off., I have had to recrown and felt polish a few of my Cros man barrels after which grouping becomes a lot better.
NVak
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Try to recrown it using the brass screw. I had a LW 17xx barrel that had an ever so slight burr that messed up my shots, but I was so happy when it started to behave just like a LW should after the treatment 👍
I also hone the barrel leade, that part before the transfer port, and the transfer port hole as well just before where the rifling starts.
Crosman barrels, even their Lothar ones, are rough in that section.
Frankly, I now just use Crosman LW barrels.
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Thank you for the replies!
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For the 3622 I second the heavy pellets. I also installed a 2240 hammer spring and a slightly restricted transfer port from Hill airgun stuff. I'm shooting the heavy pellets at about 545 fps with a very flat shot string starting with a 1500 psi fill pressure. Like was mentioned check the barrel. clean well and shoot lots of pellets to break the barrel in.
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Frankly, I now just use Crosman LW barrels.
I have two airguns with Lothar Walther barrels and both shoot Crosman Premeir domed pellets very well. Is there a way to get the barrels anymore?
Rifles with LW barrels
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Other than looking, is a Q-tip a good way to check for burs? I am about to tear my guns down and push pellets through them to feel the tightness as the pellet is pushed through. My Lothar Walther barrels have a noticeable choke and show a slight velocity decrease over a non-choked barrel. All my standard Crosman barrels also feel looser than the LW's and have no choke. Of course I haven't tested my new 362 or 3622 barrels yet. Except for a hammer spring and spring guide in the 362 and homemade fiber-optic front sight on the 3622, the guns are un-modded.
3622 front sight mod:
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Try to recrown it using the brass screw. I had a LW 17xx barrel that had an ever so slight burr that messed up my shots, but I was so happy when it started to behave just like a LW should after the treatment 👍
I also hone the barrel leade, that part before the transfer port, and the transfer port hole as well just before where the rifling starts.
Crosman barrels, even their Lothar ones, are rough in that section.
Frankly, I now just use Crosman LW barrels.
Does the 362 Anniversary come with a LW barrel ?
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I sure don't think the Anniversary 362 has a Lothar Walther barrel, they don't advertise it that way. I can check, but the LW's have more lands and the lands seem narrower than the standard Crosman barrels. Having said that, the 362 and the 3622 have a much nicer barrel outer finish than, say the 1322 or 2289 barrels or even my Crosman LW barrel. Hopefully I can report back soon.
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Try to recrown it using the brass screw. I had a LW 17xx barrel that had an ever so slight burr that messed up my shots, but I was so happy when it started to behave just like a LW should after the treatment 👍
I also hone the barrel leade, that part before the transfer port, and the transfer port hole as well just before where the rifling starts.
Crosman barrels, even their Lothar ones, are rough in that section.
Frankly, I now just use Crosman LW barrels.
Does the 362 Anniversary come with a LW barrel ?
No, they don’t.
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Frankly, I now just use Crosman LW barrels.
I have two airguns with Lothar Walther barrels and both shoot Crosman Premeir domed pellets very well. Is there a way to get the barrels anymore?
Rifles with LW barrels
I called Crosman a week or so ago to inquire about the availability of their 14.6” LW CCS barrel in either .177 or .22, and the lady who answered the phone told they were no more. This was almost right after the CCS closed. I was surprised ‘cuz they were still available when ordered with a CCS gun, so I think it has something to do with Daisy being the mother ship now. I did not probe deeper though.
I think the 2300s 10” LW barrel is still readily available, I bought another one last year, but they just can’t compete with the 14.6” one at 25 yards. They cost about $60 + shipping.
Another option is to get a 21” LW MROD barrel, I have 2 in .22, but they’re more expensive at about $106 + shipping—- bought my 2nd one last year… You would also need to have the port area redone to fit the 22xx/13xx format. They’re a drop-in for the PROD though.
Yes, these LW Crosman barrels have a very tight chokes.
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I keep my receipts 👍
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When the original 362 came out, I asked who the barrel was made by to a Crosman engineer. He told me that they are Crosman barrels but made in house. I doubt seriously they changed to a LW for the anniversary edition, considering they save money by using what is already made.
You can Check with Alliance Hobby. He says he has been out since Covid started but can order them from LW directly and machine them to fit the Crosman breaches but the "cost is prohibited". You would need to email him and ask what he means by that.
https://alliancehobby.com/lw.htm
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Frankly, I now just use Crosman LW barrels.
I have two airguns with Lothar Walther barrels and both shoot Crosman Premeir domed pellets very well. Is there a way to get the barrels anymore?
Rifles with LW barrels
I called Crosman a week or so ago to inquire about the availability of their 14.6” LW CCS barrel in either .177 or .22, and the lady who answered the phone told they were no more. This was almost right after the CCS closed. I was surprised ‘cuz they were still available when ordered with a CCS gun, so I think it has something to do with Daisy being the mother ship now. I did not probe deeper though.
I think the 2300s 10” LW barrel is still readily available, I bought another one last year, but they just can’t compete with the 14.6” one at 25 yards. They cost about $60 + shipping.
Another option is to get a 21” LW MROD barrel, I have 2 in .22, but they’re more expensive at about $106 + shipping—- bought my 2nd one last year… You would also need to have the port area redone to fit the 22xx/13xx format. They’re a drop-in for the PROD though.
Yes, these LW Crosman barrels have a very tight chokes.
Another source (expensive) is Roy of Mountain Air Custom Airguns, but I think everyone already knows him, lol!
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Preliminary accuracy testing (stock irons, marginal light, improvised rest) of my 362 AE (# in the 1600s) has indicated that it likes:
- Daisy Premier HPs (the Made-in-Spain ones, they're lead and about 15 grains if memory serves)
- RWS Hobby wadcutters (11.9 grain lead)
- RWS Hypermax pointed (9.9 grain tin)
It is OK but not in love with
- Predator GTO domes (11.75 grain tin)
It seems to dislike
- H&N Field Target Trophy Green domes (9.6 grain tin)
- Daisy Premier Spikes (lead, ~15 grains I think)
It ABSOLUTELY HATES Benjamin SingleDie domes (lead, 14.3 grain). My offhand groups with other pellets were better than the groups with these that I shot from a rest. I'm pretty bummed about this and hope my Diana Chaser likes them better. Nb. they feed easier than anything else in the 362, I feel zero resistance to the bolt closing, they just group like a shotgun.
I haven't yet really tried a bunch of other .22 pellets I have on hand (eg. lead SuperPoints, Excite WCs, Excite Spikes, Excite Hammers, CPHPs,etc.), and I mean to do my next round of testing in a really well controlled manner and put some numbers on this. Nb. my informal testing was mostly done at 4 pumps although I shot groups at several velos up to 8 pumps with the Benjamins in a failed attempt to make them behave - if I have time I'll do it parametrically and hopefully suss out what the common thread is as to what shoots well.
Ideally I'd be able to find a tight-grouping cheap lead pellet for targets mounted to the rubber mulch trap and a tight-grouping alloy pellet for shooting at steel targets and game.
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Gibson air,
.... try heavy pellets....
All barrels are different and will like different pellets. My barrels that don't do good with light pellets work excellent with heavy pellets.
Glad your AG likes heavier pellets. My stock 3622 with OEM peep does not 18 gr and above. Three different Norma pellets surprised me so I went out and shot two of them for the third time today. This time I sat at a table to get better accuracy than the usual offhand I shoot and got similar results. Other brands have been disappointing with heavier pellets too. Light 5 mph winds at 20 yards. I shot 6 pellet groups because I usually screw up on one shot, LOL. Excuse the “down home” quality of the photos, but I hope they illustrate the principle. The bottom two pics are the same target, but one shows the best 5 shots.
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Sorry, I can only post one photo at a time.
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Gibson air,
I visually inspect the crown with a flashlight looking for uneven unlevel cut, defined rifling one side other undefined rifling, usually I can just recrown using a Dremel with a stone cone bit followed by a felt tip. If the crown is abit crooked the recrown usually fixes it, if it's bad I would recut then recrown.
I haven't tried the brass screw and compound way of recrowning. .
NorCal David,
Looks good at 20 with the SPS 14.5gr. these are lighter fit pellets and good usually in tighter barrels. You Might have a barrel that likes the lighter fit based on the 2 groups you posted. I have wanted to add a 3rd C362 to see if I can get one that likes the lighter pellets. But,, at a later time...
Pic shows one of the Stone Cone bits I use and the felt tip polishing bits. These are for a Dremel 3000.
NVak
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I use those same stones.
The .22 stock barrels on the pair of 362 guns i bought seemed to also have sketchy accuracy. But they weren't on thee guns very long because I converted both to .177. I have since used them on other builds and they seem to do ok. I may have cut and recrowned one of them.. can't remember.
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Does the 3622 use the same barrel as the 362? I've been getting excellent accuracy out of my 362 using 15.6 and 17.9gr Normas. It also shoots Crosman Piranhas well and Ruger Super points. I've just ordered a C3622 from PA and I figured to start testing with the Norma pellets. My C362 does not care for H&N FTT, CPHP, or CP domes.
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Does the 3622 use the same barrel as the 362? I've been getting excellent accuracy out of my 362 using 15.6 and 17.9gr Normas. It also shoots Crosman Piranhas well and Ruger Super points. I've just ordered a C3622 from PA and I figured to start testing with the Norma pellets. My C362 does not care for H&N FTT, CPHP, or CP domes.
Been interesting to see if your 3622 likes the Norma pellets. Have never tried them in mine.
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This weekend I tried the Norma SPS 14.5 gr at 30 yards - sitting. I was tired and a little shakey from using the pickaxe and shovel in hard clay soil, but needed a break from the heat. 8mph winds were a bit gusty.
The six shot group opened up compared to the 20 yard result, still it just edged out the Baracuda 15s at 30 yards. No fancy Caldwell shooting bag (yet) so it is the best I can do for now. YMMV.
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Did I miss something or have you not tried JSB heavies. They shoot great out of 362 and my 3622.
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This weekend I tried the Norma SPS 14.5 gr at 30 yards - sitting. I was tired and a little shakey from using the pickaxe and shovel in hard clay soil, but needed a break from the heat. 8mph winds were a bit gusty.
The six shot group opened up compared to the 20 yard result, still it just edged out the Baracuda 15s at 30 yards. No fancy Caldwell shooting bag (yet) so it is the best I can do for now. YMMV.
If you have tried several different types of premium pellets and it is grouping like that with a couple of them I would wonder if the barrel was bad. My 362 is quite Catholic about what it likes. It shoots a wide variety of pellets well and almost any premium pellet shoots well in it.
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8.5.24
C3622 .22
S 3-9x32mm HMD < set on 4.5x
I put up new targets today at the 27 yard box.
CPirhana 14.3gr
52°F
Wind at 7+ mph from 11 o clock
27 yards
5 shots
Target on right was the first shot.
I readjusted my windage at 15 yards then made the 5 shot group. 4 shots in around 1/2" and one bonker that I let fly left.
I'll refill and test other pellets.
NVak
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All you guys with your junk barrels can send them to me ;D
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If you have tried several different types of premium pellets and it is grouping like that with a couple of them I would wonder if the barrel was bad. My 362 is quite Catholic about what it likes. It shoots a wide variety of pellets well and almost any premium pellet shoots well in it.
You are probably right, however, I have not changed out the plastic breach yet. I have the metal one, but was shooting at 20 yards, having fun, and getting good groups with the OEM peep. I will check the barrel out. Will be doing nothing drastic until it gets scoped and see what happens when I can see the bullseye better. For now, it stays a 20 yard AG. Might try a CVLife scope. Thanks for the barrel idea.
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Update on my 3622 accuracy. I re-crowned my barrel, added a 2-7x32 scope and aluminum breech. I ported from the valve to the barrel to .173". A short, but strong hammer spring is installed and the hammer adjustment is backed out 1/2 turn. Using JTS 16.08 grain pellets, I consistently get hole on hole at 23 yards. Any shots that stray from the bull's eye are still within the 3/4" circle on my targets. The JTS's make 16.5-18.25 FPE. (680-715 FPS) The JSB 14.35 went about 100 FPS faster and made about 2 FPE more power. I might be able to tune the JSB's down and get more accuracy. JSB's couldn't hold less than 2" groups at that distance and power setting.
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Update on my 3622 accuracy. I re-crowned my barrel, added a 2-7x32 scope and aluminum breech. I ported from the valve to the barrel to .173". A short, but strong hammer spring is installed and the hammer adjustment is backed out 1/2 turn. Using JTS 16.08 grain pellets, I consistently get hole on hole at 23 yards. Any shots that stray from the bull's eye are still within the 3/4" circle on my targets. The JTS's make 16.5-18.25 FPE. (680-715 FPS) The JSB 14.35 went about 100 FPS faster and made about 2 FPE more power. I might be able to tune the JSB's down and get more accuracy. JSB's couldn't hold less than 2" groups at that distance and power setting.
Pretty impressive group. How is your shot string/count? I have given thought to trying a 362 spring and tuning in mine
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...Using JTS 16.08 grain pellets, I consistently get hole on hole at 23 yards. Any shots that stray from the bull's eye are still within the 3/4" circle on my targets...
I have to get some of those JTS 16.08g Dead Center during the Labor Day sales. People are getting great results with them. Thanks for sharing your Mods with us.
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I have modded the gun extensively. I opened the valve and barrel with a .173" drill bit. I radiused the short turn in the valve. I used a Peter Nolla transfer port and seal from eBay. I relieved the stock to access the hammer spring adjuster. There is an unknown, but stronger and shorter hammer spring set 1/2 turn out.
From a 2,000 PSI fill, I can get 32 "fun", can plinking shots. The "good ones" are from about shot 4 or 5, to shot number 28. So 24 accurate shots from 16.5 FPE at 680 FPS up to 18.25 FPE at 716 FPS.
Here is an actual shot string:
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One of the exercises I have done with other rifles is a twenty shot group. I makes it very clear what the gun and my capabilities are. I may do this today and post. Shot 5 to 25 will probably give the best results. Early shots are scattered and late shots just drop.
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First 20 shot group at 68 feet (I call it 23yards). This was shot 8 to 28 from a 2,000 PSI fill. The point of impact shifted today. I will re-zero the scope an try again. I am still learning this rifle. I am beginning to wish it had a gauge. I would call this a nominal 3/4" group.
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I quit! Crosman, 3622, 2,000PSI fill, 68 feet, shots 5-25. (20 holes on target) Those outliers, I can't explain. I call them "Flyers" (don't count) Otherwise a 3/8" group. 7/8" group with flyers.
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I will just go straight to 30 yards and see what I get and make a dope note for hunting. 17 to 18 FPE should carry well to 30 yards for small game. I think the tube pressure goes down to about 1,200-1,300 PSI after 30 shots. That averages around 25 PSI per shot. Easy to refill.
OK Wow! Here is my 30 shot group from 2,000 PSI. I just got done shooting at 30 yards with my 3622 and 16.08 JTS pellets. I think I found a new squirrel gun! This thing only weighs 5lbs 3oz as equipped. An oddity (to ME) is that the impacts climbed the whole time with a slight angle to the left. What does this mean? The holdover from 25 yards is 1/2 mil dot at 7x. That's 30 rabbit quality shots at 30 yards to me. Maximum group size is 1.25". Two distinct groups formed. One from shots 1-15, and the higher one from shots 16-30.
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Gibson air,
If the light RSD 14.5, CPUM 14.3, array of FTTs and JSBs are not working, try heavy pellets. If you can try 15.4gr + all the way to 21gr if you can. My two C362s will not group light pellets at all, but alot of the heavy pellets do very good. Gamo Master Country 15.4gr, Apolo Arrow 16gr, HNTerminator 16.3gr, Apolo Domed Heavy 18gr, HNB 18.1gr, HNB Hunter 18.2gr, HNB 21.1gr, are what I have found flies good in my barrels. C2023 does very good w JSB RS 13.4gr and HN FTT 5.53 14.7gr Soo far . C3622 has done good with CPirhanas 14.3gr and AA 16.gr, APT 18gr so far.
All barrels are different and will like different pellets. My barrels that don't do good with light pellets work excellent with heavy pellets.
Have you tightened All of your stock screws, breech screws, barrel band grub screw? Have you looked at the crown on either of your Cros mans? A rough or crooked crown may be throwing your shots off., I have had to recrown and felt polish a few of my Cros man barrels after which grouping becomes a lot better.
NVak
I did most of what you suggested and the results were very much acceptable for me using the JTS 16.08 grain pellets. I might try JSB 18.1 grain for a little more energy. I also shimmed the front barrel band. here is a picture of a 30 shot, one fill group at 30 yards. 1.25 " total.
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Those are decent groups. I know there's better, but from a practicality standpoint, that will work. Question, after 15 shots have you checked to see what pressure the valve opens at? I've been filling to 1600-1800 and it seems even out the average of the velocity. I still need to run a full string see what I get and possibly adjust the hammer spring. Here's my sight in target. Group 1 is 11 shots with me moving the zero. Group 3 is 10 shots, with 8 in the hole. At 25 paces. I'm happy with how it shoots, but I would like to flatten out the shot curve
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Those are decent groups. I know there's better, but from a practicality standpoint, that will work. Question, after 15 shots have you checked to see what pressure the valve opens at? I've been filling to 1600-1800 and it seems even out the average of the velocity. I still need to run a full string see what I get and possibly adjust the hammer spring. Here's my sight in target. Group 1 is 11 shots with me moving the zero. Group 3 is 10 shots, with 8 in the hole. At 25 paces. I'm happy with how it shoots, but I would like to flatten out the shot curve
From the factory setting I backed the adjuster out 1/2 turn. Starting at 1800 PSI I dry fire five shots. After this I get a pretty flat string of approximately 20 shots (14.3gr CPHP) starting at around 656 fps. This peaks after a dozen or so shots at about 670 and then I get about 7 or 8 shots before it drops below 656 again. This is a perfectly adequate small game hunting tune for me. I’m leaving it alone for now. I’ve been experimenting with heavier pellets (16 & 17gr). I find I’m getting higher power numbers (FPE) but shorter shot counts.
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Those are decent groups. I know there's better, but from a practicality standpoint, that will work. Question, after 15 shots have you checked to see what pressure the valve opens at? I've been filling to 1600-1800 and it seems even out the average of the velocity. I still need to run a full string see what I get and possibly adjust the hammer spring. Here's my sight in target. Group 1 is 11 shots with me moving the zero. Group 3 is 10 shots, with 8 in the hole. At 25 paces. I'm happy with how it shoots, but I would like to flatten out the shot curve
I am pretty sure I can hear a pop when the pressure upon refilling, exceeds that in the pressure tube. I can try that after 15 shots
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Those are decent groups. I know there's better, but from a practicality standpoint, that will work. Question, after 15 shots have you checked to see what pressure the valve opens at? I've been filling to 1600-1800 and it seems even out the average of the velocity. I still need to run a full string see what I get and possibly adjust the hammer spring. Here's my sight in target. Group 1 is 11 shots with me moving the zero. Group 3 is 10 shots, with 8 in the hole. At 25 paces. I'm happy with how it shoots, but I would like to flatten out the shot curve
I have heard that restricting the transfer port and increasing the hammer spring tension will achieve what you want. Never tried it. 20 shots is my hunting number. After that, I just want more power and less than 4% deviation in velocity. At around 40 yards and under, depending on the pellet speed, this is acceptable due to point of impact shift based solely on velocity. Of course I will check with actual shots on a target. Simply going by my shot string, that would be shots 6 thru 26. I can estimate the pressures at 1850 down to 1350 based on 25 psi use per shot average. What I know is the shots are accurate enough for close range (15-20 yards) through out the entire 30 shot string and powerful enough to kill within that context. If I need to reach out more, it will have to be between shots 6 and 26. Because of the weight, accuracy and power, I think this will make a fine small game rifle and I have about $300 total: rifle, scope, adaptor and silencer.
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Thank you guys for your thoughts, I'll try to shoot a string over the chrono this weekend. I need cast some pellets, I'm out of my NOEs. Maybe I can do both this weekend, that would be ideal. I'll report back if I find anything earth shattering