GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: w9trb on March 28, 2024, 10:52:46 AM
-
What is most likely cause of this. It is a fairly new HW50S as it has the anti-galling nylon piece on the cocking arm. I have only done one other air rifle and that was a Diana 34. That job went well and I figured this job would go fine, but no such luck.
-
Did you forget to pull the trigger to reset it after the installation?
-
I did pull the trigger afterwards. I am going to take it apart again because I saw damage on the face of main seal, although the perimeter was good. It had a small Crack on its face. I will have to wait for a new one to arrive.
-
The bad seal isn't why it won't cock. The spring or spring kit may be at fault. What did you install?
-
I installed the Tinbum kit for the hw50s. I am thinking that maybe I ought to put the original spring back in and see if it will cock properly.
-
I decided to go ahead and re-install the original spring and nows the rifle rocks and fires correctly! So, I guess maybe the Tinbum kit is either spring bound or even the wrong spring?
-
Sorry I don't own this rifle. May be a silly question.
Could this be one of the rifles that has a factory spacer/washer stuck up inside the piston that must be removed for the aftermarket kit to work?
New spring could be coil-bound before full cock if extra spacers are involved.
-
I will check it out when my new Vortek piston seal arrives. I did look down into it as I cleaned it out, but nothing shook loose, as I removed the grease that was inside.
-
If the bottom guide flange is too thick the piston will bottom out on that before the piston latches to the trigger.
-
Bayman is correct. My new Vortek piston seal came today. I laid the two springs side by side with guides in place, the Timbum was longer . So I re-used the HW one and set aside the Tinbum for a later day. I would have to use it without the bottom guide or grind off a coil to make it all work.
-
What are your thoughts regarding a compare and contrast between the D34 and HW50?
-
What are your thoughts regarding a compare and contrast between the D34 and HW50?
I started out with Daisey 880 and my friend had a Gamo break-barrel. I was always a little jealous of him not having to pump for each shot. This was back in about 1965ish. I got busy with life and never had time for airguns until much later. So, when I did get back to airguns, I picked up a Daisey 922 and was happy for a short while. But then I read about the Diana 34 and bought one. It seemed a complete step up from Daisey and gave me good accuracy and had an excellent trigger, felt quite grownup in size and weight. I then started getting other airguns, among them, the HW50s. The HW50s is yet another step-up in terms of fit, finish and perception of overall quality. I got it for the purpose of getting rid of House Sparrows that are overtaking our preferred birds seed stations. It is not all that powerful, but I have other rifles for all that. It is elegant to be honest. I could easily go hunting squirrels or rabbits with it as it carries well and is not like trying to carry around a target rifle, yet it is accurate and has enough power at close range.
-
Thank you for the thoughtful comparison. The HW50 is a rifle I think about getting despite having a sub 12fpe 34 EMS.
-
I had the exact same problem when I installed a complete timbun kit with factory full power weihrauch spring in my 2019 HW35E. Wouldn’t cock and I made sure to get all the washers out of the piston. Only way it worked was to not use the top hat which defeats the purpose of a complete kit.
I complained to Timbun but the only remedy was to send the complete kit to the UK at my expense. Which is BS.
I think their quality control specs must be slipping
-
Thank you for the thoughtful comparison. The HW50 is a rifle I think about getting despite having a sub 12fpe 34 EMS.
I see in your sig notes that you have a Diana K98 low power spring. How is that performing for you. I haven't altered mine yet, just wondering as far as accuracy with your original spring and if you lowered power to get better accuacy?
-
How to install his kits Properly if you put all the plastics in without the spring it must seat flush if a bit sticks out there is your problem all you do is trim abit off the spring guide until its flush its really simple Dude
GTA wont let me post a link but go on youtube and search
Tinbum Tuning TBT kit fitting for Air Arms and Weihrauch air rifles
He goes through it all and explains what you need to do
-
;D
-
You guy's also need to keep in mind that most sellers of aftermarket spring kits and parts recommend that these kits be installed by knowledgeable people, as you have found out there can be fitment issues, as stated above, there is a solution to fix a problem, this why most of us in the U.S. buy from ARH, spring kits for our HW guns, usually their just a straight drop in with no issues JMO ;)
-
I have not used one of these kits but I'm impressed to see a real practical explanation of how a properly fit spring-guide system SHOULD work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch_3t3xyZk8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMEeIZ-GQs0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d0MEGY4QwI
I'm also impressed they are now making their own high-quality springs.
Most manufacturers are driven by cost/profit over proper engineering
The Tinbum springs look like proper engineering FIRST over cost/profit.
Well done!
-
I will say from watching these videos I'm quite impressed with what I see! what is the cost shipped to the U.S. for 1 of these kits? 8)
-
Web site states International shipping = 12.95 pounds
https://www.airrifletuning.com/product-category/tbt-tuning-kits/weihrauch-beeman/hw99-50-57/
-
tinbumtuning@gmail.com Uk
He has a supplier in Canada also
D&L Airguns
-
I will say from watching these videos I'm quite impressed with what I see! what is the cost shipped to the U.S. for 1 of these kits? 8)
Yeah Mark,
The kits look good, but I think the most important takeaway from the videos is explaining to newer folks how airgun internals work and how best to fit a Spring or kit tune.
I've only bought one kit and ironically removed it didn't provide the benefit its marketing claimed.
Folks need to remember, the whole spring, top-hat, washers etc. (assembly) needs to fit completely into the piston when compressed or the gun won't cock ......... as upon cocking, the piston tang can't move rearward enough to engage the trigger sear.
Measure spring coils dia. and number of coils to determine compressed length. Make sure when adding top-hat, spacers or whatever .... that you add this to the total length - so you don't exceeded the internal piston space available. Compare piston space vs. compressed tune assembly space - I usually leave about 1/16" extra piston space - to be safe.
Also, over lubing tends to be the norm, you don't need much to get the job done.
Many other tweaks, but these are the basics ............... ;)
-
I'm with you, my friend! for the new folks pay attention! 8)
-
I have put 2 Tinbum basic kits in HW50's with the OEM spring. Neither had room for the extra power washers. When taking it apart you do have to make sure that there is not a metal washer in the piston. It can be stuck in grease in the bottom. There is to room for both that and the nylon top hat.
-
I don't have the gun nor have I ever used the TinBum kit but I do have a question...
Might the problem be that the spring guide and the top hat guide meet within the spring when trying to cock the gun not allowing the sear to catch? If so, could one or both of these guides be trimmed down shorter?
Am I barking up the wrong tree? Has this already been mentioned?
-
I don't have the gun nor have I ever used the TinBum kit but I do have a question...
Might the problem be that the spring guide and the top hat guide meet within the spring when trying to cock the gun not allowing the sear to catch? If so, could one or both of these guides be trimmed down shorter?
Am I barking up the wrong tree? Has this already been mentioned?
Yes, it is possible.
-Y
-
I don't have the gun nor have I ever used the TinBum kit but I do have a question...
Might the problem be that the spring guide and the top hat guide meet within the spring when trying to cock the gun not allowing the sear to catch? If so, could one or both of these guides be trimmed down shorter?
Am I barking up the wrong tree? Has this already been mentioned?
Yes Avator,
The spring guide + top-hat + washer = total length - cannot exceed the piston space or the piston will be stopped those parts irrespective of spring length.
Without including the spring, make sure the spring guide, top-hat and washer fit completely inside the piston.
I know this as I have made this mistake several times and had to shorten the spring guide (taking apart the gun again) :P.
Again, everything need to fit inside the piston space ............ or else ::).
-
Ok, if that is in fact the case then those guides could be shortened enough to use the spacers to increase power if desired... correct?
Well, providing you don't go far enough to coil bind.
-
Ok, if that is in fact the case then those guides could be shortened enough to use the spacers to increase power if desired... correct?
Well, providing you don't go far enough to coil bind.
- Yes
- Yes
Both the spring and guide assembly need to be measured so that at full spring compression - everything fits inside the piston space.
-
I did a similar spring job on a Diana 460.
I added a SS Washer and Top Hat inside the piston end on the OEM spring.
It would not cock and I could not get the SS Washer and Top Hat out of the piston without doing a complete alcohol degrease.
So I reduced the length of the spring guide. The Top Hat and Spring Guide combined to be too long.
It cocked after assembly.
-
well, I guess I did learn something from that case of 5 B1-2 guns I bought from the discount warehouse joint 10 or 12 years ago. ;)
-
Yes, this problem happens at least once ..... to anyone who does airgun tuning.
The only kits that likely work every time is an ARH kit ........ assuming you don't add additional spacers.
Jim has seen it all and makes stuff that works unless operator error comes into play :P.
-
Somebody once mentioned a cool trick. Take some 1/2 PVC tube and cut it down, just a little longer than your top hat lip, total spring compressed length and spring guide flange. No try and inserting it in your gun in place of the spring and other stuff. If the gun will not cock, sand some of the PVC pipe down and check again. Rinse, repeat, till it just does cock. That is your maximum distance of washers, TH, SG, and spring. FWIW-I have yet to do it... ::)
-Yogi
-
Somebody once mentioned a cool trick. Take some 1/2 PVC tube and cut it down, just a little longer than your top hat lip, total spring compressed length and spring guide flange. No try and inserting it in your gun in place of the spring and other stuff. If the gun will not cock, sand some of the PVC pipe down and check again. Rinse, repeat, till it just does cock. That is your maximum distance of washers, TH, SG, and spring. FWIW-I have yet to do it... ::)
-Yogi
How about putting a ruler inside the piston and measure how many inches (or cm) of space there is?
Everything needs to total that length or less.
Pretty simple ......................
-
AS SpiralGroove stated I installed an ARH kit with a Vortek seal & GPL-205 lube. The 2018 year vintage HW95L had a damaged seal because of dieseling. The ARH kit came with a top hat, spring & guide. The factory setup had a thin SS washer, spring & guide but no top hat. On installation of the ARH kit I put the thin SS washer in which fit in front of the top hat. There was a steal liner which I also left in the piston. After lubing with the GPL-205 the rifle is absolutely soundless when cocking until the piston latches in the trigger. The chrono shows almost 17 FPE after about 9K shots using FTT 14.66 gr pellets and sometimes I can group MOA at 25 yards but not always. I never had a problem with the ARH kit cocking.
-
Hey Deer,
Almost 17 FPE from a .22 caliber HW95 is very impressive ............. as long as the shot cycle is still good :D.
I think your receiver's compression chamber is very true - no air leaking around the seal - My HW80S is very much like that ;).
-
I don't have the gun nor have I ever used the TinBum kit but I do have a question...
Might the problem be that the spring guide and the top hat guide meet within the spring when trying to cock the gun not allowing the sear to catch? If so, could one or both of these guides be trimmed down shorter?
Am I barking up the wrong tree? Has this already been mentioned?
See reply post 15
I believe it is all explained also in the how the guides work and how to fit them Video did you not watch them ? ;D
-
I don't have the gun nor have I ever used the TinBum kit but I do have a question...
Might the problem be that the spring guide and the top hat guide meet within the spring when trying to cock the gun not allowing the sear to catch? If so, could one or both of these guides be trimmed down shorter?
Am I barking up the wrong tree? Has this already been mentioned?
See reply post 15
I believe it is all explained also in the how the guides work and how to fit them Video did you not watch them ? ;D
Nope, I didn't.
-
Nope, I didn't.
[/quote]
;D ;D
Im the same with Instructions also lol