GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: bowzette on March 23, 2024, 11:35:03 PM
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To keep the questions easier let's just focus, so to speak, on HW break barrel spring cockers. Does HW have available a quality rear sight, and do they make/ have available a front globe sight with changeable sight inserts/cards especially various size round globe inserts for bullseyes? If not or if such are available but not of good quality or just for field use and not target quality does the Anschutz and Gehmann front globe and rear sight work? Assuming the HW front globe sight has descent and various inserts or accepts other inserts such as Anschutz and Gehmann would I only need the rear sight? I think this last question is really a "height of front sight in relation to a rear sight" question. In short would I need to match Anschutz/Gehmann rear to their like front sight for proper height and alignment? The dovetail on the HW and I assume most ARs is 11mm. So I assume any quality rear sight made for 11mm rifle dovetail would fit, or is a faulty assumption? I think the more difficult issue is if I wanted or needed a different front sight on HW models that have a front sight what is the size of the dovetail the front sight slips into? Do Anschutz/Gehmann make front sights for this size, or would I be limited to a HW front sight which is fine if there are appropriate target inserts. I would install the Gehmann 530 1.5 magnification iris for the rear disc. Thoughts also as to how well the Williams FP-AR or GR TK with knobs would work with the HW front sight. The Gehmann PH510 iris (no magnification) will fit the Williams sights. And I assume as to finding older used Anschutz and Gehmann sights Ebay is a good place to look. And does the break barrel "droop" make a rear sight on the receiver and front sight on the barrel an "impractical" combination?
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I use this one my HW35e.
It was also used on my R1.
HW did make rear peeps for there HW55 series target rifles but the grooves on those rifles were more than 11mm.
Pyramyd Air sells this sight too:
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Thanks Frank. Williams makes both the FP-AG and AR. I assume you found the AG the best height for your HW. I have a FP-39-TK for a Marlin 39A. They are good sights for the money. Williams has several aperture sizes for the disc. Also the Gehmann PH510 iris is the correct shaft size for the Williams, Lyman, Redfield American made sights. Are you using the HW front sight? If so is there a good selection of front sight inserts, especially the globe round inserts of several sizes for shooting bullseye target. The globe needs to be a bit larger than the size bull target at a specific distance- 25 yds and 50 yds or equivalent meters.
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Yes.
The HW front sight comes with five inserts.
Three different posts
Two aperture’s.
I use the aperture and rear sight for short range silhouette but when my R1 was new the very same sight was on it.
I use peeps on the HW35, C9a, FWB601, 499b
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I use this one my HW35e.
It was also used on my R1.
HW did make rear peeps for there HW55 series target rifles but the grooves on those rifles were more than 11mm.
Pyramyd Air sells this sight too:
They changed from 13mm to 11mm in like, 1978. All four of my HW55's are 11mm rail
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You probably already know this but.. depending on what HW you are referring to, comb height has a huge impact on what rear sight/front sight combination you can use.
Also, the Weihrauch globe sight has a smaller internal diameter than most of the other tunnel sights currently offered. That means insert offerings are pretty much only the 5 inserts that come with the sight.
In addition, the dovetail grooves machined into the HW barrel for the globe sight are @ 8.5 mm apart as I recall, so that must be considered when choosing a front sight. Many of the aftermarket offerings will not fit the Weihrauch front dovetail grooves as they are often 11 mm. Some of the vintage Anschutz front globes will work even though they wern't designed for the HW's narrow front sight grooves.
I have a late model R9 (HW) with a high comb. In order to use the Williams FP AG TK comfortably I had to use a muzzle weight with dovetails machined into it for the front sight (11mm) in order to raise the front sight. I then used a globe sight (11mm dovetail) that accepted the standard inserts for an 18mm internal diameter. That gave me a huge selection of choices in inserts.
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Very easy to have custom front inserts made. I had mine made about 10 years about by an outfit called Distance Thunder.
HTH,
-Y
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Thanks for the comments. I've been doing research on this and determined the most practical solution is to live with the 5 inserts on the OEM HW front sight. The most economical rear sight looks to be the Williams FP AG TK and get a Gehmann PH510 iris. Is the comb height low enough on the HW35E to use this setup?
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I don't have a 35e but if it looks like the one in the pic I attached I think the Williams would do fine on it.
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Thanks for the comments. I've been doing research on this and determined the most practical solution is to live with the 5 inserts on the OEM HW front sight. The most economical rear sight looks to be the Williams FP AG TK and get a Gehmann PH510 iris. Is the comb height low enough on the HW35E to use this setup?
Yep:
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Two diff things going on with front tunnel sights:
1. The size of the thread, for the removable sleeve that secures the inserts. Over the years, 17mm, 18mm, and 22mm have been used. 17mm is the oldest, and shared by vintage Walther, Weihrauch, and Diana match sights. The latter two still use it on sporter rifles, but no aftermarket stuff for 17mm is still made.
2. The diameter and side tab pattern of the metal inserts. HW uses a unique pattern that will not interchange with any other make. As far as I know the six insert set they make has been the same for many decades, and IMHO is a bit limited.
I like to use old Anschutz sights on HW rifles. The mount rails are the same spacing, so the Anschutz sights fit perfectly centered, but use the 18mm thread. They make MANY post and circle inserts in a wide range of sizes, plus many other brands use the Anschutz insert pattern; and many aftermarket accessories fit the 18mm thread. An easy and versatile upgrade.
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I also like older Anschutz rear diopter match sights. They fit any 11 rail and work great on HW rifles.
Note that the Gehmann irises typically fit any German sight (9.5 x 1.0 mm eyepiece mounting thread), but for a Williams sight (7/32" x 40 thread) you will need to either get the special Gehmann model made for this, or a separate adapter. The latter is the more versatile option - lets you move the iris to about any airgun sight you are ever likely to own.
Pic is an old Anschutz 6702 on an HW 55 with 11mm rails.
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Yes, the Williams FP-AG-TK works very well on the 35E. I also use it on of our HW30s. These are my most used winter indoor 10m rifles.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7hDfWXT2/P1070155.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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I also like older Anschutz rear diopter match sights. They fit any 11 rail and work great on HW rifles.
Note that the Gehmann irises typically fit any German sight (9.5 x 1.0 mm eyepiece mounting thread), but for a Williams sight (7/32" x 40 thread) you will need to either get the special Gehmann model made for this, or a separate adapter. The latter is the more versatile option - lets you move the iris to about any airgun sight you are ever likely to own.
Pic is an old Anschutz 6702 on an HW 55 with 11mm rails.
Totally agree. I have a HW35e in .22 in the mail, and found another Anchutz sight on eBay in one of the eastern European countries, so it's on the way. It matches the sight I have on another 35e in .177, I thought I would like to have the same sights, I also have an extra Gehmann diopter on hand for it. I'm getting a bit older with fumble fingers and finding a .22 easier to load.
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I’ve used the Williams and they work but, at least for me, are a little fragile feeling. I’ve stripped screws with them.
I have several Air Force Adaptive rear sights on Weihrauch rifles and have been very happy with them.
I have 1 Gehman compact on an HW35e that has done me well also.
All are/were used with the stock front sight/apertures.
Here are some pictures of the sights on the guns. I don’t have any of the Williams handy.
(https://i.imgur.com/7OOtOzrh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Bm9HoMFh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/e4JtJlzh.jpg)
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I have an older HW35 which would not take an Anschutz 6723 as the rails were to wide. This is an older model 35 from the leather seal Era.
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Not precisely sure, but I think the switch from 13mm to 11mm rail spacing happened on all Weihrauch rifles about 1978-ish? The newest 13mm one I have is from 1975, the oldest 11mm one from 1980.
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I’ve used the Williams and they work but, at least for me, are a little fragile feeling. I’ve stripped screws with them.
I have several Air Force Adaptive rear sights on Weihrauch rifles and have been very happy with them.
I have 1 Gehman compact on an HW35e that has done me well also.
All are/were used with the stock front sight/apertures.
Here are some pictures of the sights on the guns. I don’t have any of the Williams handy.
(https://i.imgur.com/7OOtOzrh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Bm9HoMFh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/e4JtJlzh.jpg)
Were these rifles HWs with the 9mm front dovetail? If so how did you get what I "assume" front sights made for 11mm front rail/dovetail fit on 9mm of the HWs?
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Sorry I see several of the rifles are HWs-early and not enough coffee yet-but the question is still how to install a better front sight on an HW with 9mm dovetail when it appears the modern front sights, German Anschutz, Gehmann, Centra, are 11mm?
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Sorry I see several of the rifles are HWs-early and not enough coffee yet-but the question is still how to install a better front sight on an HW with 9mm dovetail when it appears the modern front sights, German Anschutz, Gehmann, Centra, are 11mm?
Nothing wrong with the HW front sight. If you need different inserts have them made. The ones I had made were stamped out of thin metal. I have also seen clear plastic ones with a black circle....
-Y
PS they fit just as well as the OEM ones.
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Apologies if my post above about 11mm and 13mm rails was confusing - it's about rear diopter sights.
Older Anschutz front sights, up through the 90's I think, were made for 9mm rail spacing. They drop right onto Weihrauch barrels with no problems at all. Pic shows one on an HW 55 (with HW and Diana sights below):
(https://i.postimg.cc/NfwYpnjg/74-A46223-6-A6-D-4085-941-D-C7-CA3425505-B.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Just to provide an alternative option: I have a TEC-HRO Precise-Light rear sight and It is quite well made and affordable. Solid smooth detents and a clean bare-bones design. It fits my AirForce dovetails well. It sits slightly canted on my Daisy 753. I don't have an HWanything to compare but if you are interested I can go measure some things and pop it on a few other airguns to see how it fits. I am unfamiliar with Weihrauch but there may be adjustable sight bases that would allow you more sight options.
The comparable Gehmann sight is is well reviewed too. I have been waiting for AirForce to produce a run of their TS1 rear sight for over a year now. Twice I have been told "soon" by AF and still nothing. Not knocking AF, they have to keep their market options open. As they no longer produce the Edge 10M rifle I would be surprised if they made more rear sights. There is a market for a solid US made diopter sight, but it may not be enough to justify a production run.
Jared
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By the time I read through this whole thread I was thinking "rear sights", not front. Apologies.
TEC-HRO also makes a front "clear sight" that is just a clamp type block to hold a clear iris. I don't see a HW option but there are a lot of manufacturer options for fit. If someone happens to know that one brand's mount also fits your HW this may be viable.
I have the Crosman Precision Diopter set as well and quite like it. These sights seem to fit more dovetails than my other diopters and they can handle curved rails. They fit perfect on modern Daisy and Crosman dovetails. It is pretty well made but not like the TEC-HRO, Gehmann, or the classics.
Probably not useful info to you but I figure it can't hurt to have otions and I too have been frustrated in finding a properly fitting sight more than once.
Jared
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I was thinking rear as well. All of those sights are used with the STOCK Weihrauch front sights and STOCK front sight inserts. I generally use blacked out front sight aperture insert.
Years ago I did go looking for alternative front sights but never found any.
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Not to "HiJack" my own thread, but is the comb on the stock too high for a person "without a big head, very humble indeed, to comfortably use a rear diopter sight on the HW95/Beeman R9? I know they work on the HW50s and 34E.
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Current R9 / 95 Luxus stock has a really high comb. Is it doable? Yeah but not optimal. The 95 I have pictured is in a custom stock cut with sort of a mid height comb that can be used comfortably with either scopes or irons.
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Thanks Cslinger
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I’ve used the Williams and they work but, at least for me, are a little fragile feeling. I’ve stripped screws with them.
I have several Air Force Adaptive rear sights on Weihrauch rifles and have been very happy with them.
I have 1 Gehman compact on an HW35e that has done me well also.
All are/were used with the stock front sight/apertures.
Here are some pictures of the sights on the guns. I don’t have any of the Williams handy.
(https://i.imgur.com/7OOtOzrh.jpg)
Is the comb lower than the factory height on your custom 95 stock?
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Duh!
Never mind.
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Yes, the Williams FP-AG-TK works very well on the 35E. I also use it on of our HW30s. These are my most used winter indoor 10m rifles.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7hDfWXT2/P1070155.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Do you have any trouble with the sight walking back?
I have an original HW rear peep, missing the m7×.75 stop screw, it constantly wants to walk back.
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Scott,
I have an old HW rear sight that I picked-up at an airgun show. 11mm base.
It does not move at all on my HW 55 tribute gun(really a short stroked HW 50).
-Y
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Mine wants to walk, so, I've got an m6 set screw, with a wrap of electrical tape around the threads as a temporary fix, until I can source the proper screw.
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Yes, the Williams FP-AG-TK works very well on the 35E. I also use it on of our HW30s. These are my most used winter indoor 10m rifles.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7hDfWXT2/P1070155.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Do you have any trouble with the sight walking back?
I have an original HW rear peep, missing the m7×.75 stop screw, it constantly wants to walk back.
Not anymore, Scott, but I did when I first tarted using the Williams on the 35E and other springers. I made the mistake of using the two tiny Allen screws on the right side to do most of the tightening, even resorted to using loc-tote. That was a mistake. Ended up stripping out the Allen screws pretty quick.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nc9wDvS5/IMG-0646.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
When I started using the large slotted screw on the top of the cross bar of the sight to do the main job of anchoring, problem solved. I first tightened up the two tiny Allen screws on the side till firm, but not gorilla tight. Then anchored the sight for good with the large slotted top screw. Using this method, I've been able to use the Williams on one of my FWB Sports without any movement.
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That's good to know. Thanks.