GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Hatsan Airguns => Topic started by: H95Kidd on February 21, 2024, 04:05:46 PM
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Just a quick update on my 95 Vortex .22. This is the same one that experienced a total failure of the original Vortex gas ram, and I detailed it's replacement in a previous thread. That was my first real experience working on any air gun of decent 18-20ft lb (or back yard "hunting" ;D) power. I think this was back in July '23. I have been shooting it off/on since then, still seems to be performing at max power judging by the recoil/sound, basically the "feel" of the entire shot cycle. At any rate, I recently dispatched a "renegade" ::) black squirrel that was harassing/chasing ALL the fox squirrels (this is only the 2nd black one I have seen in a few years on my property), so he had to go. Also, just today splashed a VERY fidgety red squirrel with the Hatsan at a measured 36 yds. Anyone familiar with this species (the reds) know these are particularly nasty little critters, and will raid songbird nests and eat the young. I have personally witnessed this activity. Due to their small size, they can also get into your home and cause damage as well. Both the black and red squirrels were dispatched with a JSB Exact 15.89 gr pellet. For some reason, my 95 shoots these very accurately. Keeping my fingers crossed the replacement Vortex ram just keeps on keeping on... ;D
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Ancient Chinese Philosopher: "One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions."
It's hard to quantify your power level by recoil/sound/feel. Get yourself a chronograph!
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In some older UK videos they shoot th guns in a thick phone book-remeber those?
They they count the number of pages that the pellet goes through...
-Y
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Ancient Chinese Philosopher: "One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions."
It's hard to quantify your power level by recoil/sound/feel. Get yourself a chronograph!
Phoebe--- Totally agree with that statement. I would say that my 95 is probably shooting at or close to max Vortex power levels though... Cocking effort is still high (that's GOOD in this case ;)) and the shot I made on that red squirrel was at a range finder measured 36 yards. So pretty sure the power is still there. The sad part is I DO HAVE a chronograph, I've just been too lazy to get it set up (that's BAD in this case) ::). I really need to get the proper lighting setup so I can easily use this in my basement with the airguns. It's a longer story about not using it with an outdoor setup in my "city dweller" environment/situation. Thing is, if any of my close neighbors got a look at me "trapesing" (is that a word?) around in my back yard toting the 95, or even worse, that new Gamo Hunter Extreme Pro I just picked up (with scopes on both, they look like "sniper rifles" to the uniformed, especially that Gamo because of that huge Fusion suppressor mounted up front) they would probably just freak out (GUN!!!!) and call the cops, and I just don't need THAT aggravation. I know were talking airguns here, and logic should prevail, BUT, I refer back to the aggravation part. At any rate--back to the chrono. Our own MikeyB has commented in these pages that he rigged something up he purchased from Amazon that worked great for indoor use. I need to revisit that thread and get busy on that. Or just don't be so cheap, and simply buy the "factory" lighting strips for the chrono (about $60).
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Have Pyramyd Air catalogs mailed to your neighbors, they may take a look and get educated ;)
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Have Pyramyd Air catalogs mailed to your neighbors, they may take a look and get educated ;)
Hey James--- that's not a bad idea ;D ;D. I guess I should just try to educate them myself. It's just a matter of picking the right time/opportunity? Of course I KNOW them all, BUT, I just don't know them THAT well if that makes any sense. Its just a really strange (mostly political and divisions galore?) environment we live in these days (the anti-gun and anti-hunting aspects are real and growing), and my "city dweller" (high crime/violence, just turn on my local news every evening) situation doesn't help. I would LOVE to get a bit more property and get the h---out of these city eventually, but real estate prices are just CRAZY high (like DOUBLE) right now. So stuck in this environment for now. I don't really have it TOO bad, though, have a 3/4 acre wooded lot with Oak, Maple, Pines, even a Black Walnut "squirrel magnet" tree out back. A creek runs through the extreme rear of the property as well. That creek serves as a "highway" in/out of a huge municipal/county park system located about 1/4 mile or so away. My close neighbors (like maybe six of us, same side of the street) all have similar sized/treed lots. So a LOT of contiguous green and treed space, kinda like having a PARK in your OWN back yard. All of this serves as a magnet for wildlife (and varmints!). Deer, turkey, raccoons, possums, even COYOTES, you name it. Even had a mature Bald Eagle chawing on a dead groundhog in my back yard one day last year!! Couldn't believe it... I've seen it all running around here at one time or another. Just had five doe passing through my back yard earlier today.
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Ancient Chinese Philosopher: "One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions."
It's hard to quantify your power level by recoil/sound/feel. Get yourself a chronograph!
Phoebe--- Totally agree with that statement. I would say that my 95 is probably shooting at or close to max Vortex power levels though... Cocking effort is still high (that's GOOD in this case ;)) and the shot I made on that red squirrel was at a range finder measured 36 yards. So pretty sure the power is still there. The sad part is I DO HAVE a chronograph, I've just been too lazy to get it set up (that's BAD in this case) ::). I really need to get the proper lighting setup so I can easily use this in my basement with the airguns. It's a longer story about not using it with an outdoor setup in my "city dweller" environment/situation. Thing is, if any of my close neighbors got a look at me "trapesing" (is that a word?) around in my back yard toting the 95, or even worse, that new Gamo Hunter Extreme Pro I just picked up (with scopes on both, they look like "sniper rifles" to the uniformed, especially that Gamo because of that huge Fusion suppressor mounted up front) they would probably just freak out (GUN!!!!) and call the cops, and I just don't need THAT aggravation. I know were talking airguns here, and logic should prevail, BUT, I refer back to the aggravation part. At any rate--back to the chrono. Our own MikeyB has commented in these pages that he rigged something up he purchased from Amazon that worked great for indoor use. I need to revisit that thread and get busy on that. Or just don't be so cheap, and simply buy the "factory" lighting strips for the chrono (about $60).
OK Folks, this will be an add-on the the above post. I decided to get the chrono out (I made a "stealth" outdoor setup, don't ask) and get some data for the review/scrutiny of the GTA brethren. Tested two pellets, the JSB 15.89 gr and the H&N Hornets 16.2 gr. Five shot strings for each. Also, I shot BOTH the Hatsan 95 Vortex AND my recently obtained Gamo Hunter Ext Pro.
First up the Hatsan: JSB numbers are 743, 744, 746, 744, 748 for an average velocity of 745. H&N Hornets are 745, 742, 750, 742, 746 for an average of 745. Exactly the same average (745 fps) for BOTH pellets---VERY interesting.
Now for the Gamo PRO: JSB numbers are 877, 877, 880, 877, 876 for an avg velocity of 877. H&N numbers are 855, 852, 849, 852, 850 for an avg of 849 fps.
It was VERY interesting to me that the Hatsan shot BOTH pellets to the same exact avg velocity, while the Gamo "lost" about 28 fps with the H&N's. Not exactly sure WHAT to make of that.... Also, the Gamo did come through on power, easily running 105 -132fps faster overall than the Hatsan.
OK experts--feel free to comment on any of the above. For Pheobe: Is the 95 making sufficient power for a Vortex gas ram?
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Ancient Chinese Philosopher: "One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions."
It's hard to quantify your power level by recoil/sound/feel. Get yourself a chronograph!
Phoebe--- Totally agree with that statement. I would say that my 95 is probably shooting at or close to max Vortex power levels though... Cocking effort is still high (that's GOOD in this case ;)) and the shot I made on that red squirrel was at a range finder measured 36 yards. So pretty sure the power is still there. The sad part is I DO HAVE a chronograph, I've just been too lazy to get it set up (that's BAD in this case) ::). I really need to get the proper lighting setup so I can easily use this in my basement with the airguns. It's a longer story about not using it with an outdoor setup in my "city dweller" environment/situation. Thing is, if any of my close neighbors got a look at me "trapesing" (is that a word?) around in my back yard toting the 95, or even worse, that new Gamo Hunter Extreme Pro I just picked up (with scopes on both, they look like "sniper rifles" to the uniformed, especially that Gamo because of that huge Fusion suppressor mounted up front) they would probably just freak out (GUN!!!!) and call the cops, and I just don't need THAT aggravation. I know were talking airguns here, and logic should prevail, BUT, I refer back to the aggravation part. At any rate--back to the chrono. Our own MikeyB has commented in these pages that he rigged something up he purchased from Amazon that worked great for indoor use. I need to revisit that thread and get busy on that. Or just don't be so cheap, and simply buy the "factory" lighting strips for the chrono (about $60).
OK Folks, this will be an add-on the the above post. I decided to get the chrono out (I made a "stealth" outdoor setup, don't ask) and get some data for the review/scrutiny of the GTA brethren. Tested two pellets, the JSB 15.89 gr and the H&N Hornets 16.2 gr. Five shot strings for each. Also, I shot BOTH the Hatsan 95 Vortex AND my recently obtained Gamo Hunter Ext Pro.
First up the Hatsan: JSB numbers are 743, 744, 746, 744, 748 for an average velocity of 745. H&N Hornets are 745, 742, 750, 742, 746 for an average of 745. Exactly the same average (745 fps) for BOTH pellets---VERY interesting.
Now for the Gamo PRO: JSB numbers are 877, 877, 880, 877, 876 for an avg velocity of 877. H&N numbers are 855, 852, 849, 852, 850 for an avg of 849 fps.
It was VERY interesting to me that the Hatsan shot BOTH pellets to the same exact avg velocity, while the Gamo "lost" about 28 fps with the H&N's. Not exactly sure WHAT to make of that.... Also, the Gamo did come through on power, easily running 105 -132fps faster overall than the Hatsan.
OK experts--feel free to comment on any of the above. For Pheobe: Is the 95 making sufficient power for a Vortex gas ram?
Mod95 is "in reality" a 21 (+/- 3) fpe air rifle. One should expect to see ~18fpe-24fpe. This is heavily dependent on factory tolerances, caliber, and pellet mass. IMO this is a NORMAL variance based on the cost & quality of these air rifles.
Grains Velocity FPE
15.89 745.00 19.6 mod95 (yours is fine!)
16.20 745.00 20.0
Gamo Pro, I think, is more of a MAGNUM springer and should be comparable to the Hatsan Mod125.
Grains Velocity FPE
15.89 877.00 27.1 gamo pro (nice!)
16.20 849.00 25.9
I don't own that Gamo but I have many Mod125 rifles. They are 31 (+/-3) fpe air rifles. One should expect to see ~28fpe-34fpe on a Mod125.
The Gamo Pro should be compared to the Mod125.
You may be able to get the Mod95 shooting 27+ fpe but it will be an unpleasant experience and will stress rifle parts beyond what the manufacturer designed/intended.
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100% agree with Michael, I may add Hatsan bores tend to be on the larger side, may = less pellet friction.
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Both the black and red squirrels were dispatched with a JSB Exact 15.89 gr pellet. For some reason, my 95 shoots these very accurately.
Well, the basic Exact is among the very best pellets ever produced, with exceptional energy-retaining ability downrange. I've done most of my amazing shots (relatively speaking, of course) with them, across several .22 cal springers. No mystery there.
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Ancient Chinese Philosopher: "One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions."
It's hard to quantify your power level by recoil/sound/feel. Get yourself a chronograph!
Phoebe--- Totally agree with that statement. I would say that my 95 is probably shooting at or close to max Vortex power levels though... Cocking effort is still high (that's GOOD in this case ;)) and the shot I made on that red squirrel was at a range finder measured 36 yards. So pretty sure the power is still there. The sad part is I DO HAVE a chronograph, I've just been too lazy to get it set up (that's BAD in this case) ::). I really need to get the proper lighting setup so I can easily use this in my basement with the airguns. It's a longer story about not using it with an outdoor setup in my "city dweller" environment/situation. Thing is, if any of my close neighbors got a look at me "trapesing" (is that a word?) around in my back yard toting the 95, or even worse, that new Gamo Hunter Extreme Pro I just picked up (with scopes on both, they look like "sniper rifles" to the uniformed, especially that Gamo because of that huge Fusion suppressor mounted up front) they would probably just freak out (GUN!!!!) and call the cops, and I just don't need THAT aggravation. I know were talking airguns here, and logic should prevail, BUT, I refer back to the aggravation part. At any rate--back to the chrono. Our own MikeyB has commented in these pages that he rigged something up he purchased from Amazon that worked great for indoor use. I need to revisit that thread and get busy on that. Or just don't be so cheap, and simply buy the "factory" lighting strips for the chrono (about $60).
OK Folks, this will be an add-on the the above post. I decided to get the chrono out (I made a "stealth" outdoor setup, don't ask) and get some data for the review/scrutiny of the GTA brethren. Tested two pellets, the JSB 15.89 gr and the H&N Hornets 16.2 gr. Five shot strings for each. Also, I shot BOTH the Hatsan 95 Vortex AND my recently obtained Gamo Hunter Ext Pro.
First up the Hatsan: JSB numbers are 743, 744, 746, 744, 748 for an average velocity of 745. H&N Hornets are 745, 742, 750, 742, 746 for an average of 745. Exactly the same average (745 fps) for BOTH pellets---VERY interesting.
Now for the Gamo PRO: JSB numbers are 877, 877, 880, 877, 876 for an avg velocity of 877. H&N numbers are 855, 852, 849, 852, 850 for an avg of 849 fps.
It was VERY interesting to me that the Hatsan shot BOTH pellets to the same exact avg velocity, while the Gamo "lost" about 28 fps with the H&N's. Not exactly sure WHAT to make of that.... Also, the Gamo did come through on power, easily running 105 -132fps faster overall than the Hatsan.
OK experts--feel free to comment on any of the above. For Pheobe: Is the 95 making sufficient power for a Vortex gas ram?
Mod95 is "in reality" a 21 (+/- 3) fpe air rifle. One should expect to see ~18fpe-24fpe. This is heavily dependent on factory tolerances, caliber, and pellet mass. IMO this is a NORMAL variance based on the cost & quality of these air rifles.
Grains Velocity FPE
15.89 745.00 19.6 mod95 (yours is fine!)
16.20 745.00 20.0
Gamo Pro, I think, is more of a MAGNUM springer and should be comparable to the Hatsan Mod125.
Grains Velocity FPE
15.89 877.00 27.1 gamo pro (nice!)
16.20 849.00 25.9
I don't own that Gamo but I have many Mod125 rifles. They are 31 (+/-3) fpe air rifles. One should expect to see ~28fpe-34fpe on a Mod125.
The Gamo Pro should be compared to the Mod125.
You may be able to get the Mod95 shooting 27+ fpe but it will be an unpleasant experience and will stress rifle parts beyond what the manufacturer designed/intended.
MikeyB---- Thanks for that response. Good to know my 95 Vortex is running at a good power level. And Pheobe should be pleased I actually "chrono-ed" the 95 ;D 8). Mikey (or anyone), do you have a thought about how the 95 shot BOTH pellets to the exact same velocity (745 fps), while the Gamo PRO "lost" about 28fps shooting the H&N's? That really didn't make sense to me regarding the 95. I realize the H&N's are about 0.31 gr heavier than the JSB's, so the fact that the Gamo shot the H&N's a bit slower actually DID make some sense. But that logic didn't seem to apply to the Hatsan 95. No biggie though--but sometimes the chrono makes us ask questions we normally wouldn't without access to the data. Generally I was quite impressed with how CONSISTENT both rifles were, shot-to-shot in terms of the extreme spreads in fps. Pretty amazing, although they were only five shot strings. Ten shots for each pellet would have probably been more desirable, and may have yielded a larger difference in ext. spread. I will do this (10 shots per pellet tested) going forward.
And Mikey---I certainly would NOT want to try getting 27 ft lbs out of the Hatsan 95! That's why I have the Gamo ;D. I'm REALLY liking that Gamo, beautiful beechwood stock on it, and the CAT trigger is really not that bad after tweaking it a bit. For $250 direct from Gamo I think it was a great bargain. They are "out" of them now, who knows if they will offer them again. The ONLY negative is that the cocking effort is pretty stout compared to that of the 95. But that power has to come from somewhere, right? I just hope the IGT gas ram in the Gamo lasts for at least a few years or so. The Gamo does have a five-year warranty though...I guess that is a good thing because Gamo (unlike Hatsan) will NOT sell you a new gas ram! At any rate, at least now I have "baseline" chrono data for both rifles.
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Both the black and red squirrels were dispatched with a JSB Exact 15.89 gr pellet. For some reason, my 95 shoots these very accurately.
Well, the basic Exact is among the very best pellets ever produced, with exceptional energy-retaining ability downrange. I've done most of my amazing shots (relatively speaking, of course) with them, across several .22 cal springers. No mystery there.
Duke, I agree about the JSBs. Light enough for decent velocity, but heavy enough to carry good downrange energy. They certainly worked OK on my backyard groundhogs. Hardly an additional quiver after a headshot from the 95 Vortex. I do plan on dispatching any that show up this spring using the Gamo Hunter Ext. PRO. It does shoot quite a bit harder, as expected, than the 95 (19.6 ft lbs for the 95, versus 27.1 ft lbs for the Gamo using the 15.89 JSBs). Might as well take advantage of that additional power from the Gamo.
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Both the black and red squirrels were dispatched with a JSB Exact 15.89 gr pellet. For some reason, my 95 shoots these very accurately.
Well, the basic Exact is among the very best pellets ever produced, with exceptional energy-retaining ability downrange. I've done most of my amazing shots (relatively speaking, of course) with them, across several .22 cal springers. No mystery there.
Duke, I agree about the JSBs. Light enough for decent velocity, but heavy enough to carry good downrange energy. They certainly worked OK on my backyard groundhogs. Hardly an additional quiver after a headshot from the 95 Vortex. I do plan on dispatching any that show up this spring using the Gamo Hunter Ext. PRO. It does shoot quite a bit harder, as expected, than the 95 (19.6 ft lbs for the 95, versus 27.1 ft lbs for the Gamo using the 15.89 JSBs). Might as well take advantage of that additional power from the Gamo.
Yeah, IF you can hit the groundhogs head with the Gammo???
-Y
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Both the black and red squirrels were dispatched with a JSB Exact 15.89 gr pellet. For some reason, my 95 shoots these very accurately.
Well, the basic Exact is among the very best pellets ever produced, with exceptional energy-retaining ability downrange. I've done most of my amazing shots (relatively speaking, of course) with them, across several .22 cal springers. No mystery there.
Duke, I agree about the JSBs. Light enough for decent velocity, but heavy enough to carry good downrange energy. They certainly worked OK on my backyard groundhogs. Hardly an additional quiver after a headshot from the 95 Vortex. I do plan on dispatching any that show up this spring using the Gamo Hunter Ext. PRO. It does shoot quite a bit harder, as expected, than the 95 (19.6 ft lbs for the 95, versus 27.1 ft lbs for the Gamo using the 15.89 JSBs). Might as well take advantage of that additional power from the Gamo.
Yeah, IF you can hit the groundhogs head with the Gammo???
-Y
Yogi--Seriously, that Gamo Hunter Extreme Pro is one HECK of a rifle for the money (was $249 direct from Gamo). They were only available from Gamo USA direct for a limited run. They are currently OUT, no idea if they are gonna offer them in the future. To add icing to the cake on the Gamo, I was able to get 10% off of that price, AND free shipping, so a REALLY good deal for me. It IS decently accurate as well with those JSBs, head shots on the G-hogs should be NO problem at 35-40 yds, my usual shot opportunity distance. Admittedly, the CAT trigger was really crappy out of the box, so I modded it with a longer screw on the 2nd stage adjustment, similar to that sold by JC at Airgun Detectives. However, I picked mine up (the screw) from Home Depot WAY cheaper than what JC sells them for. Once the CAT trigger was adjusted for a decent let-off, the rifle became MUCH more pleasurable to shoot, and more importantly, much easier to shoot accurately. I'm lovin' it now, but I'm lovin' my 95 Vortex as well! MikeyB indicates my 95 is performing well based on the chrony numbers I provided, so the replacement Vortex ram is still running up to snuff. Also, you gotta love the consistency of the gas spring powerplants of these two rifles. Just LOOK at the chrony numbers ;D WAY low extreme spread. I certainly was impressed...
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... do you have a thought about how the 95 shot BOTH pellets to the exact same velocity (745 fps), while the Gamo PRO "lost" about 28fps shooting the H&N's? That really didn't make sense to me regarding the 95. I realize the H&N's are about 0.31 gr heavier than the JSB's, so the fact that the Gamo shot the H&N's a bit slower actually DID make some sense. But that logic didn't seem to apply to the Hatsan 95. No biggie though--but sometimes the chrono makes us ask questions we normally wouldn't without access to the data. Generally I was quite impressed with how CONSISTENT both rifles were, shot-to-shot in terms of the extreme spreads in fps. Pretty amazing, although they were only five shot strings. Ten shots for each pellet would have probably been more desirable, and may have yielded a larger difference in ext. spread. I will do this (10 shots per pellet tested) going forward....
The difference in performance between these 2 pellets in these 2 specific rifle is not a surprise to me.
Pellet mass difference is only 0.3 grain by manufacturers spec. What is the tolerance on that? Likely a lot more than most folks think. I LAUGH OUTLOUD when ANY pellet manufacturer lists their grain weight with 1/100 grain weight accuracy!
Pellet size, shape, and alloy as related to specific BORE & RIFLING dimensions are important factors.
We are also ASSUMING the chronograph data is superbly accurate, consistent, and repeatable from devices costing less than thousands of dollars. I'm NOT saying cheap chronographs are useless. FAR FROM IT! They are an indispensable tool for most of us. We should just be aware that the low cost (<$100) ones we commonly use have a certain limit on accuracy and repeatability.
In the Hatsan 0.3 grain = 0.4 FPE
In the Gamo 0.3 grain = 1.1 FPE
Considering all the OTHER differences IMO this is "in the NOISE". Measure again on another day and you may not get the same results.
Both rifles seem to be performing well within their intended design specifications.
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MikeyB-- Thanks for that info. As far as the chronograph, mine is the ProChrono DLX, claimed to be made in USA so that's good! I have not fooled with the "BlueTooth" connection capability as of yet, just reading the actual chrono display for now. I can see the BT thing being useful with a powder-burner, as you need a bit of clearance from the muzzle (muzzle blast) and the chrono display may not be easily readable at that clearance distance. Anyway, regarding the Hatsan/Gamo data, I just found it interesting that the Hatsan shot BOTH pellets to the same avg velocity, but the Gamo had a distinct and measurable loss in velocity (about 28 fps) with the H&N Hornets. I know that amount is pretty insignificant, and it could be, as you say, just in the "noise". But the testing was back-to-back within minutes of each other. So it was just something that definitely got my attention is all. You know, one of those things that make you go "hhmmnnn" ??? I expected a velocity loss from BOTH rifles with the slightly heavier H&Ns, so it was a surprise to me that the Hatsan didn't seem to register any difference at all.