GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => BB Guns and Such => Topic started by: dougroundup on February 19, 2024, 03:44:25 AM
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Full auto anyone?
There certainly seems to have been a great proliferation of full auto BB Guns in recent times.
Of course we also took a big step backwards here in the US when the importation of the Drozd was halted and the most popular dealer of Drozd and of aftermarket mods decided to hang it up and no longer in business.
The modified DROZD was probably the most serious capable full auto BB gun.
Certainly a creation that took the novelty of toy bb gun into a serious real air arms weapon system !!!
The current crop of Full Auto kinda pale by comparison, however we do in fact have many more choices.
Umarex has quite a few F.A. replica guns that are very realistic in fire and function.
I have an Uzi that Umarex had shortly marketed. It was also marketed by a few others as the Cybergun Uzi, Fletcher, KWC and maybe a few others. It was in fact the same gun. Like most of the Umarex stuff they are also available on airsoft versions. It seems that these replicas are blowback operation and very realistic feel and firing. They all seem pretty anemic. Barely breaking much over 300-400 fps. Of course this drops fast when doing full auto dumps due to the CO2 .... Not much can be done to upgrade the performance with these, at least not with both the Uzi's I own. I tried to silence them but other than looking cool with a big can and the ability to possibly lengthen the barrel with the extension of the can, not much you can do to quiet them, most of the sound is with the blow back action and not the barrel report. I have long looked for rebuild kits for these mags. The valves in them get really bad leaks. Also these Uzi's are becoming more difficult to find. The Mags are even more difficult. I did locate a replacement mag. Apparently they are much better now if you can locate a second or third revision mag. I am unsure how to tell the difference. The new mag works great and holds air indefinitely! The valve makes better power too. (I only have one functional mag between both guns) They are pricey! I did mod one mag to run tethered on HPA before the valve finally crapped out. These Uzi's are very finicky to the pressure and volume of air that feeds them. They are cool replicas and novelties but not high performance air arms.....These were also available in a 6mm airsoft version too.... It seems like there are so many options with airsoft full auto guns. I can't help but wonder how many of these airsoft guns would make as a basis for modification to 4.5mm/.177 BB guns??? I have Umarex Steel Storms.
These were originally an affordable game changer. I bought one of these all modded to full auto and bulk feed CO2 .
It was fun while it lasted. They are not known for longevity and have very little, or actually none, no parts support and once they break you are relegated to throwing them into the scrap pile. The mod for this was to remove the fire control sprag that limits it to six shot burst and enables complete full auto. The other thing popular was the bulk air feed. Mine was originally CO2 but now runs HPA. I have run it as high as 1200 psi and it didn't last too long it will work reliably down to 550 or 600 psi but is somewhat anemic. 900 psi is about right and can expect up to about 450 max fps with the Hornady black diamond bbs or the daisy match grade.. I managed to quiet these down with the addition of a baffled can with felt . Got rid of the annoying pop but suspect that it created back pressure that contributed to failure.
Anyways, I have quite few "defective" Steel Storm parts guns now for mod fodder. I plan to try to pick up some more fps with longer barrel and some sound moderation. There was a You Tube video of a guy who built a sophisticated rotary hopper bb feed onto one of these and that is going to be something I wish to investigate. So it seems that the Steel Storm is what I have to work with, I am going to see what so can do with the mechanics or powerplant and see what I can do.... I am surprised we have not seen more airsoft conversions. There is the Barra electric piston gun, it seems limited to around 450 fps .
Maybe that's the magic number for bbs?
I doubt we will see anything approaching the modified Drozd .
Of course there are also a few higher end PCP pellet rifles capable. The Hatsun Blitz is probably the best bang for the buck with the aftermarket magazine capable of something like 30 rounds and avail in .30 cal too.....
So anyone else modding or getting higher performance from today's greater choices of FA BB guns. I would think you'd hear more from the crossman guns at least a bulk air?
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I've been interested in getting something, but have had bad luck with blowback co2 replicas not wanting to run very well without freezing up even on a 110°f norcal summer day.
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I have had a DPMS (AR Carbine Copy) I have been havin fun with for the last year or two. Mags are a bit pricey but the gun functions just fine and I haven't had any issues with it freezing up. Pretty accurate for what it is and always attacts a crowd at the range, folks think it's a .22 RF with a really good can on it. LOL Some folks have converted them to use HPA. Lotsa fun!
Don
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Yes, CO2 is a very limiting factor and a performance killer. I think that makes a good argument for what Barra has done with the electric piston airsoft type power plant. I am not very familiar with it. But The Airsoft guys have done a lot of custom stuff with hotrodding and aftermarket their AEG guns. I have no idea how far you can take it. The GBB are pretty cool as far as realism but the CO2 again is a limit. I understand that the airsoft crowd utilize "green" gas. It doesn't seem like green gas provides the pressures we require. Also the blow backs seem to really complicate whatever power modification you can do with the valving and usually not much you do in the way of hammer weight. Pretty much stuck with the dwell timing of the valve to move the action. HPA is obviously a great way to go but you need a place to put that HPA. A 12 gram cylinder is not going to provide much shot count . So it's pretty much a tethered affair.. Tethered kinda ruins the beauty of having a authentic replica, which also in most instances is going to be blowback. I am not so concerned with replica arms. I want to build up an over the top BB gun of shredding destruction! Something that can do full auto dumps of hundreds of bb's at high velocities. Something like a single barreled minigun ! LoL! The unlimited fully modified Drozd really were something of a benchmark. I doubt there will be much to exploit as far as power modification with the gas blowback mechanics of my steel storm platform. Maybe raise the psi of my HPA and change the spring buffering and clean up the valve piston a bit. Longer barrel. Not much I can do about increasing the volume. But if I can get a little more flow and longer barrel maybe tighter tolerances and get a few more FPS that would be cool. I would even be happy if I can just figure a way to bulk feed bbs into the feed port. I am thinking that I will probably end up scratch building something else around the internal power plant and toss the plastic housing aside all together.... Maybe I am putting too much thought into all of this... The thing is that I have over a dozen of these things to tinker with..... But yeah CO2 is not the way to do full auto dumps! HPA seems like the way to go.... I think I also need to study up on what's good with the airsoft and paintball crowd....
Of course there is always the Hatsun Blitz if I want to throw money at stuff.
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I have had a DPMS (AR Carbine Copy) I have been havin fun with for the last year or two. Mags are a bit pricey but the gun functions just fine and I haven't had any issues with it freezing up. Pretty accurate for what it is and always attacts a crowd at the range, folks think it's a .22 RF with a really good can on it. LOL Some folks have converted them to use HPA. Lotsa fun!
Don
Hey Don, yeah we really have come a long way since the Red Rider ;D
It appears that Crossman has certainly done a decent job of bringing forth a reliable package to the consumer. I am not hands on familiar with them, but they have good reviews and Crossman is a credible company. I have a pair of very realistic UZI GBB bb guns and with a faux can on the end of one of them, I get similar reaction from bystanders, thinking it an actual suppressed firearm. Funny thing is most people fail to notice that no shell casings are being ejected .