GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: 22Talon on September 10, 2023, 04:06:04 AM
-
Hello guys, im looking at getting a new airgun if the contract im working goes well.
After 6 months in iraq a toy waiting for me would be nice.
Currently have a talon ss in .22 i have had for years. Like the size/weight if it but i could never get it to stay consistent. Recently upgraded parts from talon tune and put a reg on it. Its consistent now but power is 18-20 ftlbs. In order to get the power I want 30plus o would have to dump a few hundred more into it and dont think its worth it. Planning to just leave it at the power level and shoot crossman premiers at close range(gets a ton of shots) and maybe give it to my daughter when older as its simple 1 shot is good for training.
I also have an AA410E in .22 that needa a rebuild. Though finding the complete kit stateside is a pain. Accurate and good power but its heavy and kinda long for woods walking. Plus i feel bad that over the years i have dinged and dented the beautiful rifle.bought it for 500 bucks about 15 years ago so its been good.
Anyway i am looking to do the buy once and cry once kinda thing so here is what Im looking for.
Bullpup design to keep it short for better off hand/field shooting.
Light weight or at least not heavy like a bench gun.
Relaible and easy to work on for maintenance ,easily get parts for, and able to send in if ever needed. Dont want to buy something and then have no support or not able to get parts.
No tuning required, I dont want to try to save a few bucks and then have to do a lot of mods to get it where I want. The only thing I want to have to do is adjust power to match the pellet im shooting or swap barrels some day maybe if the gun can easily do that.
Regulated, I dont want to have to deal with a power shot curve any more and would like good shot count
Power 30ftlbs or more for flatter shooitng and accuracy to be able to hit kilzones on starlings and such at 75-100 yds. Probably not a commin option but it would be nice if the gun is capable of it if needed.
Quiet, open to adding a mod later but i dont want a cannon i have to struggle with to make quiet.
So i have been looking and there is a lot of options it seems.
However taking in these factors the best bets seem to be these rifles.
Edgun, but not many dealers and only leshy seems to be available. Good rep but most expensive and seems almost like a pistol size and lower power, nit sure if it would have the range.
Taipan vet 2. Only 1 dealer now it seems and only 1 model. Pretty gun, compact seems very short and I only hear good things and has been around for decades. Well build, excellent trigger, good shot count, quiet and accurate. Downside is the cocking lever which people seen to hate and that it is a bit heavy compared to the rest.
Not sure on compact vs standard power and shot count.
Atg uragan. Never heard of them but reviews praise the gun. Kinda ugly and not sure how the bottle up front will effect handling.
Has a bit more power and more shot count, also a bit lighter. Reviews say well built and reliable, with good accuracy. Also available in compact and regular size. Not sure on parts availability or support. Also limited dealers.
Finally the zbroia series has a bullpup model and it seems to he well reviewed. Its a bit cheaper than the rest. Seems to be accurate, light and could check the boxes. Also available in small, medium and long versions.
One of the problems is finding exact specs to compare power levels, seems to be missing in a lot of the guns spec sheets on dealer websites. Which makes it harder to compare the rifles and or the short vs medium size models since they dont lost power ot shot count
Which of these models would be the best option? Or any other that i should look at?
Id like to keep it 1500 or so.
-
Taipan is being carried by 2 dealers: Utah AG and Talon Tunes.
If you haven’t heard yet, the front-cocking Taipan 2 has been out for quite awhile.
Also check out the English-made Brocock (owned by Daystate) at Airguns of Arizona. They’re a pseudo bullpup design.
-
Oh so the veteran 2 is now forward cocking?
Cool i missed that That seemed to be one of the big complaints of the gun was that its rear cocking lever.
-
;) Leishy 2 all the way
-
Oh so the veteran 2 is now forward cocking?
Cool i missed that That seemed to be one of the big complaints of the gun was that its rear cocking lever.
IIRIC, the latest Taipan came out late last year.
-
I can only comment based on my observations and experience.
I owned a Taipan Mutant Shorty in .22 and a Taipan Veteran (1) Long in .25. Both shot well enough that a buddy decided to buy both once I made the commitment to only shoot .177. Another ground squirrel hunting buddy just recently bought a Taipan Veteran 2. Based on the body count and the grin on his face, I'd say the bullpup is everything that he dreamed of!
I also witnessed Scott opening up the Mutant Shorty. It is a very solid platform, well made, and seems easy to maintain (o-ring replacements, etc.). Then, of course, everything seems easy when Scott (Motorhead) is doing it!
The Veteran 2 has some fundamental changes (improvements) from the Veteran 1. The barrel is free floating, and the scope mount is a part of the barrel assembly. This part is similar to the Daystate Pulsar, except that Taipan makes it look nicer according to my buddies. As noted by many other members, the forward cocking mechanism is also new to the Veteran 2. I have witnessed quick follow-up shots in ground squirrel hunting, it can be a very important feature.
Note that Taipan bullpups are not light. They *may* be the heaviest bullpups for a given overall length. That being said, I know the Mutant and the Veteran 1 are well balanced, as opposed to the Pulsar which is much more rear-heavy. I think the Veteran 2 is just as balanced given that brief moments of handling it.
I also have to note that my Brocock Ranger XR (sharing the same trigger group with most of the current generation Brocock models) required some trigger work. Given the price (comparable if not more than a Taipan), I expected the trigger to be much better out-of-the-box. Brocock now has a proper bullpup, the Ghost. I have no experience with the Ghost, it does not seem to share the trigger group arrangement with the generation of the Ranger XR.
-
;) Leishy 2 all the way
Edguns are nice, but, right now, would not want to support any item that hails from Russia.
Just my personal opinion, of course.
-
Hi
You might want to look at the Air Arms Galahad
Here’s a review
https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=468&v=5YJzWWrD9Ro&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo (https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=468&v=5YJzWWrD9Ro&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo)
Hope this helps
Dave
-
;) Leishy 2 all the way
Edguns are nice, but, right now, would not want to support any item that hails from Russia.
Just my personal opinion, of course.
Leaving politics out of this they make a darn good airgun and now all the new leishy 2s are US made from what I understand.
-
Like on your list the Taipan Vet 2, RTI Prophet 2, FX Dynamic. Well....congratulations on a gift that should be waiting for ya when you return!
-
Thanks guys. Leaning towards the veteran 2 or uragan.
Edgun seems to not have any models available besides the leshy. I like the size of it and it gets good reviews but its single shot and almost a grand more than the veteran 2 or uragan. The layla or matador look good but cant find any place that sells them.
The zobrai bullpups look nice also but info is scarce. Price is very tempting but wouldn't want to save a few bucks and regret it.
Sadly no place near by has the guns im interested in so comparing them in person isn't possible.
-
The Leshiy 2 ain't a bullpup. However, you can usually find a Lelya or Matador used over at AGN, though these tend to be .25, not .22. My wife's Lelya is such a critter, though she can hit a Foster's can at 120 yards 4 out of 5 shots. My Leshiy Classic cannot do such a thing :( BTW, the Leshiy 2 is multi-shot and what you can buy now; the Leshiy Classic is no longer available, and single-shot (and remains my favorite airgun bar none)
I'd think checking with Georgia Airguns might be up your alley. Any of the Eastern-European brands will meet your needs, that's for certain.
You could always go for boring and get an FX like everybody and their brother, then complain about tuning options and such.
If I was looking for a bullpup for popping tiny fragile birds at long ranges, I'd be thinking .177 with dedicated slug-barrel. Cricket, Taipan, Argus, Zbroia, RTI... However, if I was choosing one and had to do .22, probably the KalbrGun Cricket II or Argus 45, either in .22. Bottom line is any of these higher end PCPs will put a smile on your face.
EDIT: EdGun West has the .22 Matador Synthetic in stock (2 left, a hair over $1700)... and they have multiple Lelyas in .22 in stock. Dunno where you got the information there are not others EdGuns available.
You can also check 2 of the primary overseas sellers; I've used both to good success.
Krale-Schietsport and Aceros de Hispania.
-
Check out this and some other nice pups etc at New England Airguns< they also service many brands like Evenix
https://www.newenglandairguns.com/brands/huben/page2.html (https://www.newenglandairguns.com/brands/huben/page2.html)
https://www.newenglandairguns.com/brands/evanix/ (https://www.newenglandairguns.com/brands/evanix/)
-
Forgot to say I am in the US.
I have checked out the manufacturers website and looked at dealer listings as well as checking known dealers and using google.
It appears the a lot of models for edgun, AGT are not sold by the limited dealers in the US.
IE Edgun leshy and leshy 2 listed but not the others.
Dont want to have to order from dealer in another country or get a model not supported here in the US. My AA410e has limited support here vs Europe and would like to avoid that issue for my next gun.
Also seems difficult to compare models or brands on power or shot count etc
Wish they would go into more detail on stuff like that. It would really help making decisions
-
Vulcan 3 or Brocock Ghost..
-
Edging west has lelya 2.0
-
If you are ready to buy right now you absolutely cannot beat the sale bullet central is having on fx rifles. This is a really great deal. Out of the box it should be ready to rock around the 30 ft lb range. No tuning required. If you don’t mind a bit more complication they have a VP bottle mk3 in 25 cal for about the same money.
https://bulletcentral.com/fx-airguns-wildcat-mkiii-synthetic-22-cal-fxw333108/
-
Edging west has lelya 2.0
Built like a tank, 30fpe, never need to tune, compact, simple, never lose poi, reliable and Brian at EGW is here a phone call or text away. When you hold an Edgun you know you’re not handling a toy grade airgun. Can you tell at all I’m an Edgun fanboy ? I can’t tell 😉anyway I have one of these so I’m speaking from experience
-
Forgot to say I am in the US.
I have checked out the manufacturers website and looked at dealer listings as well as checking known dealers and using google.
It appears the a lot of models for EdGun, AGT are not sold by the limited dealers in the US.
IE: EdGun Leshiy and Leshiy 2 listed but not the others.
Dont want to have to order from dealer in another country or get a model not supported here in the US. My AA410e has limited support here vs Europe and would like to avoid that issue for my next gun.
Also seems difficult to compare models or brands on power or shot count etc
Wish they would go into more detail on stuff like that. It would really help making decisions
Shot count and power depend on tune, which depend on what the owner wants to do. The "specs" are guidelines and subject to change depending on the tune. Shot count, max power, slug or pellet, heavy or light pellets, domes, HPs, or wadcutters... the very nature of a tunable PCPs means you cannot rely strictly on MFGR specs.
I previously named EdGun West as having the Matador and Lelya, both in .22. Both are completely ambidextrous bullpups, and there's no other PCP as tough as the Matador. Ed himself takes some shots, throws his Matador down, drives over it, takes some more shots, drives over it again, and puts some more shots downrange. Zero damage, zero accuracy change. The video can be found on YouTube with no edits. There are not any more NEW Leshiy Classics being made. Beside that, both the Leshiy and Leshiy 2 are rifles, not bullpups, so they don't qualify anyway.
I also named Georgia Airguns. They have multiple high end bullpups.
There's a Veteran over at AGN for $850 in .22.
EdGunWest and Georgia Airguns both have good support. Not sure what else to add but it is almost like you're not reading what people are posting.
Side Note: I concur completely with Mike (Carter). EdGuns are rock solid. My wife loves her Lelya, and I adore my Leshiy classic.
Or you can also jump on the bandwagon and buy an FX bullpup and plunge deep down the tuner's hole. Just be sure to stock up on JSBs.
-
Or you can also jump on the bandwagon and buy an FX bullpup and plunge deep down the tuner's hole. Just be sure to stock up on JSBs.
[/quote]
Wow yeah the fx tuning rabbit hole is a nightmare to me with infinite possibilities. I have left my fxs as is and they’re good nuff but you can’t beat the Edguns for simplicity
-
Thanks anti squirrel. I did read what people posted. When i googled edgun i went to their website., which is different than edgun west my mistake. Utah airguns was mentioned a lot for a place to get edguns when searching but I didnt see the matador listed. Pyramid also only had leshy 2.
You are correct in that the leshy isn't a bullpup but i mentioned it because it seems to be in a lot of posts searching for bullpup reviews and info.
I think i narrowed it down to the leyla or matador on the edgun side. Seem to be same gun except layla is just shorter than the matador regular?
Taipan vet compact is still tempting as its a little cheaper and alwasy seems to have good reviews spanning back decades.
Charely at Georgia airguns gets a lot of praise as well. They sell the zobrai which looks good and he says good things about. But i dont want to cheap out and regret it later trying to save 300 bucks.
Do you know of the .22 compact or leyla would be up to 75-100yds for starlings or pigeons? And would it be easy to put a longer barrel on either models down the road?
-
As for fx airguns i seem to see a lot of love but also a lot of problems. I dont want to get caught up having to tune something that expensive. Looks wise they don't seem to do it for me like the taipans or matador.
Leshy 2 being semi auto is cool but not sure worth the extra thousand bucks and complexity.
-
I can’t help you with any of the others because when I got my Taipan, I never looked back. I have a Veteran long, one of the ones made in the Ukraine with a CZ barrel, and it is an out-of-the-box accurate rifle. The trigger is awesome!!! After three years of shooting, I have never had to work on it. It’s a 100 yard gun but is on the heavy side. If you do a search re complaints about the Veterans here on GTA, that may educate you as to just how good they really are. Like you, I just want to shoot (accurately), not fiddle with tuning and my Taipan does that quite well. Best wishes on your decision.
-
Well i emailed charlie at Georgia airguns and he says he no longer carries the taipan veterans since he cant get parts or even spare magazines. He also says he stopped carrying the zbroia line as well for the same reason.
So that might put a damper on the taipan line.
He did say he carries the crickets still so i might look at them.
Edgun matador from edgun west might be an option still. Though i dont like the idea of having an electric guage and reg on them.
-
Another possibility maybe.........BRK Ghost. I personally do not own one (yet) but to my eye, it is very well thoght out and superbly machined. Every review I have read, and every youtube vid all give it high marks, I have yet to hear a negative about the Ghost, other than possibly it only takes AK style grips, instead of AR grips (if that matters to ya).
My 2 cents and a planned future purchase
-
Well i emailed charlie at Georgia airguns and he says he no longer carries the taipan veterans since he cant get parts or even spare magazines. He also says he stopped carrying the zbroia line as well for the same reason.
So that might put a damper on the taipan line.
He did say he carries the crickets still so i might look at them.
Edgun matador from edgun west might be an option still. Though i dont like the idea of having an electric guage and reg on them.
Airguns of Arizona carries KalibrGun and Brocock.
-
Thanks ricky.
Charlie seems to be a nice guy and said i could call him and he would help me select a gun for my needs,very nice of him to offer.
He has a special on cricket 2 or the cricket carbines for 1500, which includes his full tune to setup how i want, plus test firing to make sure i get good accuracy and efficient air for the pellets I plan to shoot.
Not sure how the cricket compares to the taipan or edgun, I did like how they have mamy reviews saying how dependable they are and hold their zero well since they are built like a tank and simple design.
-
Of course.
It makes sense to support the cottage industry.
-
Just buy all of them..... you're gonna wind up buying them anyway, take a second mortgage on the house, I'm sure the wife won't mind...... :o :o :o ;D,
Don't listen to me, I'm not married..... ;D ;D ;D 8)
-
Just buy all of them..... you're gonna wind up buying them anyway, take a second mortgage on the house, I'm sure the wife won't mind...... :o :o :o ;D,
Don't listen to me, I'm not married..... ;D ;D ;D 8)
Haha just get it over with
-
If only i had the money to buy them all i probably would. Along with a bunch more fire arms and reloading things.
Id love to have a gun for every job, like people do with tools. Though i wonder what the 10mm wrench equivalent would be I guns? You know thr one you can never find when you need it lol
-
Well i emailed charlie at Georgia airguns and he says he no longer carries the taipan veterans since he cant get parts or even spare magazines. He also says he stopped carrying the zbroia line as well for the same reason.
So that might put a damper on the taipan line.
He did say he carries the crickets still so i might look at them.
Edgun matador from edgun west might be an option still. Though i dont like the idea of having an electric guage and reg on them.
Edgun west will install a regular pressure gauge at no cost on a lelya or matador. I bought my lelya and Brian told me they don't use the digital gauges anymore.
-
Well i emailed charlie at Georgia airguns and he says he no longer carries the taipan veterans since he cant get parts or even spare magazines. He also says he stopped carrying the zbroia line as well for the same reason.
So that might put a damper on the taipan line.
He did say he carries the crickets still so i might look at them.
Edgun matador from edgun west might be an option still. Though i dont like the idea of having an electric guage and reg on them.
Edgun west will install a regular pressure gauge at no cost on a lelya or matador. I bought my lelya and Brian told me they don't use the digital gauges anymore.
+1 on that my Lelya 2.0 came with a manual non digital gauge from Edgun west
-
Well i emailed charlie at Georgia airguns and he says he no longer carries the taipan veterans since he cant get parts or even spare magazines. He also says he stopped carrying the zbroia line as well for the same reason.
So that might put a damper on the taipan line.
He did say he carries the crickets still so i might look at them.
Edgun matador from edgun west might be an option still. Though i dont like the idea of having an electric guage and reg on them.
That's a shame about the Zbroia line. I got my Kozak 550 Tactical from Charlie a few years ago. It's a fantastic gun, very well made and accurate.
-
While I have quickly become a fan of the OG Veteran, I am not so much a fan of the Veteran 2. to me Taipan took this simple robust, no nonsense platform and due to marketing pressures, made it a bit gimmicky. No offense to anyone who loves their Veteran 2, just my opinion... Without "giving the people what they wanted" I am sure Taipan would have struggled for the sales volumes needed to stay viable.
Those AGT guns, I have never handled one, never been inside one. At first glance, from afar, the Uragan and Vulcan seem attractive to me. So much so that I own a twin 530cc tank kit for the Uragan, but don't own a Uragan yet, lol...
My experience over the years with Edgun West has been too flaky for me to ever own another Edgun. That may be unfair of me as I have never purchased a gun there, just ammo, parts, and accessories. But I do not like a vendor reaching out to me, unsolicited, "sure man I can help you out, I have those parts" then ghosting me. That was when I knew my journey with Edgun was at its end. I am sure others have had awesome experiences, but that was mine.
-
Wow! Sorry to hear about your experience with Edgun west. I have nothing but great praise for the outfit. I think if you go that route you will be satisfied though. I wish they would start making a leshiy classic in this country instead of the l2. I would buy one in a heartbeat. The only reason I got the lelya is 'cause I couldn't get a leshiy classic. I am thinking of trading my lelya for a leshiy classic on the classifieds here. MAYBE!! I do love that lelya!!
-
The L1 is the poster child for “one gun does most” you can caliber change in one minute without any fancy tools and tuning. I’d never get rid of mine I have all the barrels except a .20 and .30. It’s currently hosting a .25 250mm barrel shooting the the Hades at 700. Little guy makes 30 fpe and fits in your pocket
-
The L1 is the poster child for “one gun does most” you can caliber change in one minute without any fancy tools and tuning. I’d never get rid of mine I have all the barrels except a .20 and .30. It’s currently hosting a .25 250mm barrel shooting the the Hades at 700. Little guy makes 30 fpe and fits in your pocket
This!
I spent 6+ months "finding" my first higher-dollar PCP and chose the Leshiy (now Leshiy Classic) for these reasons. You can still find them, but my guess is they will start doing what Sumatra Carbines are doing: appreciating in value.
Regarding the Lelya- The one I bought (and my wife cl;aimed as her own) is superlatively accurate. In better hands than mine, I'm certain it is capable of MOA at 80 yads, and likely darn close at 100+. The major determinant will be ammo choices. The Lelya is basically a more compact Matador; both EdGuns are totally ambidextrous with "charging lever" style cocking on both sides. they should very very well, and I'd say the Lelya is marginally better for offhand shooting than my Leshiy Classic, but mainly because it is heavier and more stable.
A concern with bullpups is they lend themselves to canting, so a scope level would be handy for bench shooting. Free-hand is just a matter of building familiarity and comfort, so whether you choose an EdGun, a Kalibr, a Taipan, Zbroia, or Uragun, just bear this in mind. I have strong suspicions the war between Russia and Ukraine is having a significant impact on airguns coming from Ukraine, so now may not be the best time for them. There are Spanish and Turkish manufacturers offering excellent bullpups (Cometa and Kral, respectively) but these are mid-range, not top-tier.
For bench shooting, a rifle or carbine will generally offer a more stable platform than one of these subcompact bullpups. There's also the "black gun" style bullpups like RTI and the FX Impacts which have their own benefits. I have a long term goal of buying an FX Dreamline (tube not bottle) or an RTI, with the RTI leading the way.
If only i had the money to buy them all i probably would. Along with a bunch more fire arms and reloading things.
Id love to have a gun for every job, like people do with tools. Though i wonder what the 10mm wrench equivalent would be I guns? You know thr one you can never find when you need it lol
This would likely be either a PRod, the EdGun Leshiy Classic, or the FX Impact/Dreamline or the RTI Prophet/Priest. These are either modular and easy to alter, or simply offer an endless amount of tuning/modification. For me, the EdGun Leshiy is the Alpha and Omega; it meets every need except deer hunting (mainly because I don't own a .35 "Nasty Nine" barrel yet).
-
Id love to have a gun for every job, like people do with tools. Though i wonder what the 10mm wrench equivalent would be I guns? You know thr one you can never find when you need it lol
Well for Air Guns it would be the Fill Probe..... ;D ;D ;D, Where did that stupid thing go..... :o :o :o Ehh I'll just buy another one.... ::) ::) ::)
-
If only i had the money to buy them all i probably would. Along with a bunch more fire arms and reloading things.
Id love to have a gun for every job, like people do with tools. Though i wonder what the 10mm wrench equivalent would be I guns? You know thr one you can never find when you need it lol
Not a high end BP but a custom one and tuned.
The owner, Rich Dudek, is a master tuner and a machinist.
No problem with parts backup from Crosman/ Benjamin either.
Personally, I would have qualms taking a nice and expensive AG out to the woods lest I scratch it:
https://www.airgunrevisions.com/product/benjamin-akela-22-with-aluminum-air-tube-and-tko-moderator/ (https://www.airgunrevisions.com/product/benjamin-akela-22-with-aluminum-air-tube-and-tko-moderator/)
-
Id love to have a gun for every job, like people do with tools. Though i wonder what the 10mm wrench equivalent would be I guns? You know thr one you can never find when you need it lol
Well for Air Guns it would be the Fill Probe..... ;D ;D ;D, Where did that stupid thing go..... :o :o :o Ehh I'll just buy another one.... ::) ::) ::)
Until they are no longer available... :o
I personally think they should be outlawed. Or at least standardized.
-
From someone who would not consider any bullpup, can't stand the look or awkwardness. ALL of the ones mentioned are great dependable manufacturers. You will not go wrong regardless. Pick the one that catches your eye, then look at specs.
-
My big issue with bullpups is reaching in or near my ear hole to cock them. I do own a Beeman 1358 with the forward cocking lever and I find it shootable.
-
Id love to have a gun for every job, like people do with tools. Though i wonder what the 10mm wrench equivalent would be I guns? You know thr one you can never find when you need it lol
Well for Air Guns it would be the Fill Probe..... ;D ;D ;D, Where did that stupid thing go..... :o :o :o Ehh I'll just buy another one.... ::) ::) ::)
Until they are no longer available... :o
I personally think they should be outlawed. Or at least standardized.
get the extra probes before the extra mags. Just get a good semi auto while you're at it 😁