GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => 3D printing and files => Topic started by: subscriber on September 06, 2023, 11:30:27 AM
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Yesterday, a fellow forum member contacted me via PM, asking if I could design a muffler for his .25 Huben pistol. Specifically, 1.5" OD x 5" long. It needed to have an offset bore, so the stock sights would not be obscured.
I whipped up the design below in about 8 hours; then made some improvements to include a printed 1/2-20 thread version, and a version that would accept a 5/8" - 11 / 1/2 - 20 thread insert.
As I did this design for free I retain the right to share it as I see fit. Anyway, I notice some guys asking about offset moderators for the Huben pistol. So here is a potential candidate that anyone could 3D print for themself.
No one has printed this design yet; let alone tested it. I have no control over your material choice or print quality. So, should you print one for your own use, you assume responsibility for your own safety. If I was selling the design or parts, I would have test results indicating acceptable performance, strength, durability and grouping ability. I am in a sense posting this design before it has been proven; partly because I just posted it on AGN, where the Huben pistol bug seems to have bitten hard.
The design sports a "can in a can" approach, to have a longer path that "looks conventional" to the projectile. This is to reduce the time the projectile spends travelling through asymmetrical turbulence.
The design has 4 mm thick walls around the primary blast chamber. That chamber communicates with a forward offset expansion space via 16 x 2 mm diameter vent holes. The rear of the primary blast chamber is cored out with slots around the barrel stud thread, These slots are to reduce pressure wave bounce in the primary blast chamber. Ahead of the primary blast chamber the wall thickness is thinned down considerably because the bulk pressure is lower there; and to keep the unit mass close to 100 grams.
The forward-most expansion chamber vents downward into its own offset space, via a single large triangular opening. The triangular shape is so that the unit can be FDM 3D printed, while standing on its front end; threaded end up. That is the only position in which this part can be FDM printed.
I will need to attach the STLs in their own zip files due to the low number of bits allowed on GTA per attachment.
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Same design as above, but for thread insert.
STL inside attached ZIP file
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I forgot to add that you will need to use shim washers to clock the offset OD out of the line of sight. 0.025" and thinner shim washers. Or, if you print the muffler version that accepts the thread insert, that can be rotated slightly to clock the offset to any position when installed.
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That looks beautiful - pretty big service you are providing there subscriber
I’d love to get one of these airguns. Some day!
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I recently started reading the Huben post on AGN, I got to where everyone wants them quiet now, need to finish catching up, I do not want any added length, but for indoor shooting it would be nice.
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Forgot to mention that the threads are deliberately tight for maximum strength; intended for chasing with a tap. If you want a low intervention experience, set your print slicer X and Y axis to 101 %, but leave the X axis at 100 %.
In any event, printing only the threaded section first is a good idea so save time, until you have confidence in the thread fit.
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I have no printer, but would do a test fit etc...
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I had a request for more muffler configurations for the Huben pistol. A 1.5: OD x 8.5" long offset version; and an oval muffler with more sight plane offset; 6.5" long and 1.5" at the widest point.
See images of the trio of Huben pistol mufflers below.
The STLs for the latter are too large to attach to GTA, even when zipped. However, they can be found here:
Oval:
https://www.airgunnation.com/attachments/oval-offset-huben-pistol-25-ldc-1-5-x-6-5-inch-half-20-thread-zip.387945/ (https://www.airgunnation.com/attachments/oval-offset-huben-pistol-25-ldc-1-5-x-6-5-inch-half-20-thread-zip.387945/)
1.5 OD x 8.5" long:
https://www.airgunnation.com/attachments/stl-for-offset-huben-25-ldc-1-5-x-8-5-inch-half-20-thread-zip.387492/ (https://www.airgunnation.com/attachments/stl-for-offset-huben-25-ldc-1-5-x-8-5-inch-half-20-thread-zip.387492/)
Rotate part in slicer to ensure that you print with threads facing up.
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Down loaded will see if I can get a print. :)
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It would be great to get some feedback, James
Obviously these mufflers can be used on other platforms than a Huben pistol.
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I just noticed a typo in the quoted text below: Leave the Z-axis alone and adjust the X and Y axiis, if you want the adjust the thread fit.
Forgot to mention that the threads are deliberately tight for maximum strength; intended for chasing with a tap. If you want a low intervention experience, set your print slicer X and Y axis to 101 %, but leave the X axis at 100 %.
In any event, printing only the threaded section first is a good idea so save time, until you have confidence in the thread fit.
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5" in PETG and 1 in ABS on the plates printing at this time. really nice looking ldcs Peter.
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Vyper crashed and died. So no ABS one drats.
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Thanks Mike and MrP for your positive words.
Bummer about the print failure. Thanks for giving it a go, Mike.
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Thanks Mike and MrP for your positive words.
Bummer about the print failure. Thanks for giving it a go, Mike.
Shopping for a new printer. Parting out the viper. For 199 bucks it printed lots of ldc lol.
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my last surviving Crosman project. .22 shooting 14.3 16ftlbs.
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Mike,
That looks like the 1.5 x 5" offset Huben muffler?
It was designed "strong" for 80 FPE, so it might not be as effective as some of my lighter but longer designs. What are your impressions?
Thanks
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Mike,
That looks like the 1.5 x 5" offset Huben muffler?
It was designed "strong" for 80 FPE, so it might not be as effective as some of my lighter but longer designs. What are your impressions?
Thanks
It is the Huben muffler not bad on my 16ftlbs without it shouts 120.5dBA with the huben 118.3dBA. I can definitely tell the difference lol.
I do have a new airgun a AEA Element ultra light .30cal it’s generated 73 FPE. I’ve got a Donnyfl Sumo for it. 3lb 4oz scoped. Sent it back to the shop so they could install a 300 cc tube adaptor.
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Thanks, Mike
That looks like a monster.
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Thanks, Mike
That looks like a monster.
Any chance I could get you to do the offset Huben in.30 cal?
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Yes, Mike
Meanwhile here is a concentric compact .30 muffler, 52 mm OD by 132 mm long. The weight is right around 150 grams because it is intended (but untested) for 100 FPE. One version has 1/2-20 printed threads. Also a variant that takes a 5/8-11 thread insert to 1/2-20: https://www.grainger.com/product/E-Z-LOK-Self-Locking-Thread-Insert-4ZB92 (https://www.grainger.com/product/E-Z-LOK-Self-Locking-Thread-Insert-4ZB92)
STL for 1/2-20 printed thread version: https://www.airgunnation.com/attachments/stl-for-30-md-ldc-52-x-130-mm-half20-thread-version2-zip.389738/ (https://www.airgunnation.com/attachments/stl-for-30-md-ldc-52-x-130-mm-half20-thread-version2-zip.389738/)
STL for thread insert version: https://www.airgunnation.com/attachments/stl-for-30-md-ldc-52-x-130-mm-for-thread-insert-revision2-zip.389731/ (https://www.airgunnation.com/attachments/stl-for-30-md-ldc-52-x-130-mm-for-thread-insert-revision2-zip.389731/)
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Mike,
I did a .30 version of the .25 Huben pistols offset muffler, as requested.
I will attach the zipped STL below, if GTA will let me. I seem to get warnings about exceeding the file size limit; even when the file is well below 3 Mb. If that happens I will email it to you.
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Wow thanks Subscriber I give them both a try with my .30. It’s in the shop getting a reg adaptor installed. So it will be a couple weeks.
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Jolly good, Mike
I did the waffle pattern one for JungleShooter (Matthias) just the day before yesterday. I am sure he would appreciate seeing what it looks like "in the print", so perhaps you might print that one first?
Thanks
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Jolly good, Mike
I did the waffle pattern one for JungleShooter (Matthias) just the day before yesterday. I am sure he would appreciate seeing what it looks like "in the print", so perhaps you might print that one first?
Thanks
Will do but need to order more PETG that design @50% infill going to be 1day an 8hrs to print.
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Mike,
I don't know what you might mount the LDC to, but if it shoots at over 50 FPE, you might consider printing it at 100% infill. Yes, that will take longer, but not as long as printing it twice.
That said, I suppose it depend on how many outer layers you use. If 4 layers at 0.4 mm per side, the bit in the middle can probably be at 50%.
On the other hand, your results as planned might make an interesting data point. I have a regular who has been asking me to design lighter LDCs. To risk popping some to find out what they will stand.
I don't know why I think this will be an unshrouded PCP, but if it has a functional shroud, then it might be over-designed as is.
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Mike,
I don't know what you might mount the LDC to, but if it shoots at over 50 FPE, you might consider printing it at 100% infill. Yes, that will take longer, but not as long as printing it twice.
That said, I suppose it depend on how many outer layers you use. If 4 layers at 0.4 mm per side, the bit in the middle can probably be at 50%.
On the other hand, your results as planned might make an interesting data point. I have a regular who has been asking me to design lighter LDCs. To risk popping some to find out what they will stand.
I don't know why I think this will be an unshrouded PCP, but if it has a functional shroud, then it might be over-designed as is.
The Element has a functional shroud so it wouldn’t be taking a full on blast out the muzzle. Plus
I don’t plan shooting more than 73fpe.
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OK, thanks
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.30 MD LDC on the plate printing. sure is complicated lol!!
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12%
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I like the way the light catches that thing. Will look great when finished. Would like to see pics when it is further along; and done, please.
You would think that I know what it looks like, since it is my design; but a "hard copy" is much more meaningful. It has become real 3D, and not just 2D trying to represent 3D.
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40%
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inside shot.
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Thanks, Mike.
I am a function first guy, but that thing looks good.
Your print quality is also good: The filament lay is amazingly even.
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Thanks, Mike.
I am a function first guy, but that thing looks good.
Your print quality is also good: The filament lay is amazingly even.
Thanks subscriber.
Guess I better get a 100% infill on sd card.
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Not what I meant, Mike. I mean that I design for function, then consider looks. Matthias asked for that waffle pattern as a top priority; and it does look good.
EDIT: Mackeral5 complains that I design my inserts too strong (heavy). So, if the above muffler survives for you, that would vindicate Mackeral5. And provide useful info for me.
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Not what I meant, Mike. I mean that I design for function, then consider looks. Matthias asked for that waffle pattern as a top priority; and it does look good.
EDIT: Mackeral5 complains that I design my inserts too strong (heavy). So, if the above muffler survives for you, that would vindicate Mackeral5. And provide useful info for me.
I can do a function design if you want to see regular looking LDC.
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Thanks, Mike, but I do not understand.
Just function test the one you are printing when you are done, just as you intended; please.
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Done.
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Thank you, Mike
Could you take a picture of the front end, please? It has unusual looking dimples.
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Thank you, Mike
Could you take a picture of the front end, please? It has unusual looking dimples.
Added a pix of the muzzle over at AGN.
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Thanks, Mike
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So, test reports for the .25 oval offset muffler shown at the post below suggest it is a winner:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,210109.msg156475360.html#msg156475360 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,210109.msg156475360.html#msg156475360)
Perhaps someone would like to print and test it, to confirm that is works as well as my extended Notos insert design? To the point where you are aware of the valve noise and target slap, rather than muzzle blast.
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So, test reports for the .25 oval offset muffler shown at the post below suggest it is a winner:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,210109.msg156475360.html#msg156475360 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,210109.msg156475360.html#msg156475360)
Perhaps someone would like to print and test it, to confirm that is works as well as my extended Notos insert design? To the point where you are aware of the valve noise and target slap, rather than muzzle blast.
On the plate printing now.
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Mike,
You are a jolly good sport.
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Brief review of 3 offset mufflers printed from member- Subscriber design
No names for these, so I’ll describe them by length and width. These are designed with the main goal of using the factory iron sights, hence the offset design. Shout out to Subscriber, Mackeral5 and Torquemaster!!!! You guys are the best!!!
Muffler1- 1.5” x 5”
Muffler2- 1.5” x 8.5”
Muffler3-OVAL 1.5”@ the widest point x 6.5” x 2.25” top of the oval to the bottom.
My chronograph literally died 3 minutes after turning it on so I apologize for no velocity readings.
3600psi in the gun, max air we had that day. Was hoping to shoot @ 4000-4200psi
Power adjuster 1.5 turns out
Pellets Bisley .25 caliber 24.38gr.
Range 36’ shooting indoors to outdoors.
20’ indoors to the doorway, another 16’ to the pellet trap outside.
So what I describe is what I personally think I’m hearing.
First up my GK1- no muffler- first shot, it’s loud, like .22 rimfire loud.- did see a reason to confirm it so no follow up shots.
Next is my buddies GK1, his is sporting a Hugget Atom muffler, 3 shots taken. No bark or sharpness to the report, report sounds lower toned.
Next muffler1- 3 shots, almost identical to the report of the Atom muffler I believe it was slightly quieter.
Muffler2- 3 shots, this one sounds just like muffler1, I thought the additional 3.5” of extra length would make a noticeable difference, but surprisingly while it was quieter, the difference to me was just barely. So for all these you hear the shot, then the target impact, then the pellet hitting the steel trap. All of this happens quick @ 36’
Muffler3- first shot, I stopped for a second and looked at the gun. Something sounded different. Took shot 2, then shot 3.
So this is what I think I’m hearing. The shot mixed in with the noise of the action, target impact, then pellet hitting the steel trap.
Shot report is low toned, but it was noticeably quieter then the rest. Almost spooky quiet. I finished off 2 more mags just for the heck of it because I was having so much fun.
I did shoot some 48gr slugs, the were cast out of an 8 cavity MP mold, no sizing. There is no seating the pellet. This pellet fills the mag front to back. This one expect muzzle rise to be more.
POI shifts-??? Can’t really say? Not sure if 36’ is far enough to show it? I also wasn’t thinking to shoot different spots. I shot at circle I traced with a quarter. End result is just a jagged hole. There is no doubt that the gun is accurate. At the end of the design process for muffler1, I asked him how much for the muffler shipped to me?
Let’s just say the it is “very reasonable “ or maybe better yet “extremely affordable “
Am I happy with the mufflers? Heck yea!!!!
But it’s not just the mufflers I’m happy with. The overall experience working with Subscriber, Mackeral5 and Torquemaster has been nothing short of amazing. Subscriber has posted the muffler files for anyone to print. Please read his precautionary statement about them. Please be aware that these are experimental, I knew this from the start and assumed all risk. I’d like to hear from folks who printed these same mufflers and see if the results are same or similar.
Be safe, shoot straight and have fun! Thanks for reading my brief review.
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I recently started reading the Huben post on AGN, I got to where everyone wants them quiet now, need to finish catching up, I do not want any added length, but for indoor shooting it would be nice.
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James, I have all 3. The Oval muffler in my opinion is the way to go if you’re stuck inside.
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I recently started reading the Huben post on AGN, I got to where everyone wants them quiet now, need to finish catching up, I do not want any added length, but for indoor shooting it would be nice.
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James, I have all 3. The Oval muffler in my opinion is the way to go if you’re stuck inside.
My thoughts also, time being I have a Rocker LDC for it so will see how that does.
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tested the 1.5x5 25 cal offset on my .22 element shooting 780fps without ldc 105.8dBA with 93.0dBA pretty good drop.
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Thanks, Mike
In terms of drop, it would have been great if the oval one could finish printing, so you could compare that...
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Thanks, Mike
In terms of drop, it would have been great if the oval one could finish printing, so you could compare that...
Can do that. My gun airmax .22 shooting 14.3hp 820fps with out 110.8dBA with 97.6dBA! pic of meter setup on the left inline with bullet trap.
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Thanks, Mike
That is decent performance from such a short muffler. Could you post this on AGN in reply to my post, here https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/gk1-taming-the-bark.1297066/post-1573639 (https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/gk1-taming-the-bark.1297066/post-1573639)
Thank you
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Thanks, Mike
That is decent performance from such a short muffler. Could you post this on AGN in reply to my post, here https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/gk1-taming-the-bark.1297066/post-1573639 (https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/gk1-taming-the-bark.1297066/post-1573639)
Thank you
Done.
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Thanks, Mike
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pic of meter setup on the left inline with bullet trap.
Inline, hmm, that makes the white birdhouse the pellet trap. I do like the double bulls eyes. ;)
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Stan, you might be joking, but otherwise, the trap is backed by light colored wooden planks, to the right of the bird house, down on the ground. Click on the image to enlarge it.
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yes, I B joking.
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But your name isn't Surely. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM2K7sV-K74 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM2K7sV-K74)
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I was able to test the Shorty Spiral Huben GK1 mufflers, but it seems that I am unable to post videos??? I did post them on AGN if anyone is interested. They are in the thread titled-GK1-taming the bark.
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Thanks, Alex
https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/gk1-taming-the-bark.1297066/post-1578906 (https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/gk1-taming-the-bark.1297066/post-1578906)
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subscriber has done an awesome design for me — where silencing performance and aesthetic looks are combined to compete with the best factory-made units out there. 👍🏼
I feel this has introduced a new era of silencers — were customization for
▪︎ caliber
▪︎ muzzle energy
▪︎ length
▪︎ girth
▪︎ asymmetry
AND
▪︎ outside appearance
are a real option.
Thank you, Peter! 😊
Matthias