GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Projectiles => Pellet Review Gate => Topic started by: mr007s on August 13, 2023, 03:31:01 PM
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SIDE BY SIDE: 30 CAL JSB and 30 CAL JTS
I have been testing and comparing these two brands of ammo for several weeks and want to share my results with you guys. JSB is one of the leaders in air gun ammo sales. There is a video worth watching that shows their operation. They produce millions of pellets. The vid runs around 49 minutes and if you have not viewed it I highly suggest you take time to learn what an operation they run. Link for the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AAQzSkRZVg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AAQzSkRZVg)
JTS is a new comer to pellet production and making a giant splash in a very short time. I don’t know of a video posted of their production facility, if there is one I would like a link to it . I either read or heard that Bob Sterne (on the GTA and other forums) had input in the development of the 18.2 grain .22 cal ammo and the center of gravity had been relocated. I have not heard if he was working to develop the .30 cal also.
DISCLAIMER: This comparison was shot with a choked barrel. Your results may be different then this post if shot from an unchoked barrel. Tom, the owner of American Air Arms built the Evol to shoot JSB at around 830-900FPS. Some owners have has success with slugs but it means regulator adjusting and other tweaks.
Test Results and other insight
Price, always a consideration
The last order of JSB from PA was 4 tins. Get 1 free and pay for 3. Use promo code and get 10% off. Add taxes and shipping and total ran 68.38$. 600 pellets at .114 Cent per.
Order of 4 tins of JTS were 60.95. The buy 3 get 4th free was available but no promo code, maybe in the future (I hope.) 400 pellets were .15cent per.
Not much difference but it adds up in the long run.
Quality Control
JTS has nailed this! My plan was to weigh all 4 tins once they arrived. The first tin was weighed and 96 were spot on at 45.1 grain. 1 was 45.2, 1 was 45 and 2 were 44.9. I didn’t bother to weigh the other 3 tins.
JSB has been going down in quality for some time now. In the past a spread of 44.2 to 45.3 was a good tin. The last large order of 10 tins (1500 pellets) were off the chart in actual weight. They ran from 43.2-45.9. Why are they labeled as 44.7, there were not very many 44.7 in the total count. The highest concentration was 44.9-45.4. Nod goes to JST for QUALITY
Chrony Numbers
JSB JTS
Avg FPS-890 Avg FPS-904
ES 5.72 ES 8.61
SD 2.14 SD 2.44
Measurements
JTS—Length .375” Head diameter--.3005” Skirt--.305”
JSB—Length .375” Head diameter--.3015” Skirt--.307”
My thoughts on the lower avg speed has to do with head size. I can feel a difference when closing the chamber on the JSB. It takes a little extra push to seat. I believe the tighter fit adds a bit more friction and thus the slightly slower FPS.
I hope this is helpful to someone, I will continue to test. I really like the thought of never having to weigh another pellet!
I have attached photos of several groups shot side by side on the same morning. Both were under 1 inch CTC. Also, I placed a 100 yard target used for the GTA NUHC at 125 yards just to see what I could do.
Turned out to be pretty dang good. I plan to share this post on a few other forums so you may see it again somewhere. Thanks for reading my post!
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I supplied JTS with several designs for pellets, some were used "as is", I understand others were changed a bit....
Bob
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I must caution everyone that is common for new dies to shoot diffently versus worn dies.
Case in point a few years ago I was looking for a cheaper pellet for my Urban to replace the Jsb 18.1 it loves. Then
Crosman came out with the new 19 gainers. I bought a tin to try and WOW they shot neck and neck with the JSBs so I ordered 20 tins and they shot great. I have been shooting them for a year or two. I got down to 10 tins and reordered. I opened one of the newer tins and shot some shotgun groups went back to the older tins and returned to shooting tight groups.
I think time will tell if the JTS pellets will still perform when the dies get broke in.
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I supplied JTS with several designs for pellets, some were used "as is", I understand others were changed a bit....
Bob
Thanks for posting, I was hoping you would. Can you post or message me what the specs are on the 30 cal., head and skirt size and total length. I am interested in how close my measurements were ,
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I must caution everyone that is common for new dies to shoot diffently versus worn dies.
Case in point a few years ago I was looking for a cheaper pellet for my Urban to replace the Jsb 18.1 it loves. Then
Crosman came out with the new 19 gainers. I bought a tin to try and WOW they shot neck and neck with the JSBs so I ordered 20 tins and they shot great. I have been shooting them for a year or two. I got down to 10 tins and reordered. I opened one of the newer tins and shot some shotgun groups went back to the older tins and returned to shooting tight groups.
I think time will tell if the JTS pellets will still perform when the dies get broke in.
I wonder about that as time takes its toil. I would hope the dies are replaced when quality starts to suffer.
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SIDE BY SIDE: 30 CAL JSB and 30 CAL JTS
I have been testing and comparing these two brands of ammo for several weeks and want to share my results with you guys. JSB is one of the leaders in air gun ammo sales. There is a video worth watching that shows their operation. They produce millions of pellets. The vid runs around 49 minutes and if you have not viewed it I highly suggest you take time to learn what an operation they run. Link for the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AAQzSkRZVg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AAQzSkRZVg)
JTS is a new comer to pellet production and making a giant splash in a very short time. I don’t know of a video posted of their production facility, if there is one I would like a link to it . I either read or heard that Bob Sterne (on the GTA and other forums) had input in the development of the 18.2 grain .22 cal ammo and the center of gravity had been relocated. I have not heard if he was working to develop the .30 cal also.
DISCLAIMER: This comparison was shot with a choked barrel. Your results may be different then this post if shot from an unchoked barrel. Tom, the owner of American Air Arms built the Evol to shoot JSB at around 830-900FPS. Some owners have has success with slugs but it means regulator adjusting and other tweaks.
Test Results and other insight
Price, always a consideration
The last order of JSB from PA was 4 tins. Get 1 free and pay for 3. Use promo code and get 10% off. Add taxes and shipping and total ran 68.38$. 600 pellets at .114 Cent per.
Order of 4 tins of JTS were 60.95. The buy 3 get 4th free was available but no promo code, maybe in the future (I hope.) 400 pellets were .15cent per.
Not much difference but it adds up in the long run.
Quality Control
JTS has nailed this! My plan was to weigh all 4 tins once they arrived. The first tin was weighed and 96 were spot on at 45.1 grain. 1 was 45.2, 1 was 45 and 2 were 44.9. I didn’t bother to weigh the other 3 tins.
JSB has been going down in quality for some time now. In the past a spread of 44.2 to 45.3 was a good tin. The last large order of 10 tins (1500 pellets) were off the chart in actual weight. They ran from 43.2-45.9. Why are they labeled as 44.7, there were not very many 44.7 in the total count. The highest concentration was 44.9-45.4. Nod goes to JST for QUALITY
Chrony Numbers
JSB JTS
Avg FPS-890 Avg FPS-904
ES 5.72 ES 8.61
SD 2.14 SD 2.44
Measurements
JTS—Length .375” Head diameter--.3005” Skirt--.305”
JSB—Length .375” Head diameter--.3015” Skirt--.307”
My thoughts on the lower avg speed has to do with head size. I can feel a difference when closing the chamber on the JSB. It takes a little extra push to seat. I believe the tighter fit adds a bit more friction and thus the slightly slower FPS.
I hope this is helpful to someone, I will continue to test. I really like the thought of never having to weigh another pellet!
I have attached photos of several groups shot side by side on the same morning. Both were under 1 inch CTC. Also, I placed a 100 yard target used for the GTA NUHC at 125 yards just to see what I could do.
Turned out to be pretty dang good. I plan to share this post on a few other forums so you may see it again somewhere. Thanks for reading my post!
And the winner is????
Now that testing is done which pellet are you going to order a sleeve of? ::)
-Y
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A great thread, Ray. From your testing, in my eyes, the JSBs came out on top where it counts at the target. I have always relied on sorted JSBs when I go hunting or when wanting the tightest groups. I have sorted four tins (600 pellets) of the 44.75gr in the past and wound up with a 2.10gr spread between 43.56gr and 45.66gr. I sort them down to 0.20gr groups. It would be nice not to have to sort them but whatever it takes to drill ragged holes at the target I'll do. I have not ordered any JTS pellets to date, so this thread is good to see.
(https://i.ibb.co/N2cbHg2/4-tins-JSB-44-75gr-sorted-by-weight-6-6-20.jpg)
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SIDE BY SIDE: 30 CAL JSB and 30 CAL JTS
I have been testing and comparing these two brands of ammo for several weeks and want to share my results with you guys. JSB is one of the leaders in air gun ammo sales. There is a video worth watching that shows their operation. They produce millions of pellets. The vid runs around 49 minutes and if you have not viewed it I highly suggest you take time to learn what an operation they run. Link for the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AAQzSkRZVg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AAQzSkRZVg)
JTS is a new comer to pellet production and making a giant splash in a very short time. I don’t know of a video posted of their production facility, if there is one I would like a link to it . I either read or heard that Bob Sterne (on the GTA and other forums) had input in the development of the 18.2 grain .22 cal ammo and the center of gravity had been relocated. I have not heard if he was working to develop the .30 cal also.
DISCLAIMER: This comparison was shot with a choked barrel. Your results may be different then this post if shot from an unchoked barrel. Tom, the owner of American Air Arms built the Evol to shoot JSB at around 830-900FPS. Some owners have has success with slugs but it means regulator adjusting and other tweaks.
Test Results and other insight
Price, always a consideration
The last order of JSB from PA was 4 tins. Get 1 free and pay for 3. Use promo code and get 10% off. Add taxes and shipping and total ran 68.38$. 600 pellets at .114 Cent per.
Order of 4 tins of JTS were 60.95. The buy 3 get 4th free was available but no promo code, maybe in the future (I hope.) 400 pellets were .15cent per.
Not much difference but it adds up in the long run.
Quality Control
JTS has nailed this! My plan was to weigh all 4 tins once they arrived. The first tin was weighed and 96 were spot on at 45.1 grain. 1 was 45.2, 1 was 45 and 2 were 44.9. I didn’t bother to weigh the other 3 tins.
JSB has been going down in quality for some time now. In the past a spread of 44.2 to 45.3 was a good tin. The last large order of 10 tins (1500 pellets) were off the chart in actual weight. They ran from 43.2-45.9. Why are they labeled as 44.7, there were not very many 44.7 in the total count. The highest concentration was 44.9-45.4. Nod goes to JST for QUALITY
Chrony Numbers
JSB JTS
Avg FPS-890 Avg FPS-904
ES 5.72 ES 8.61
SD 2.14 SD 2.44
Measurements
JTS—Length .375” Head diameter--.3005” Skirt--.305”
JSB—Length .375” Head diameter--.3015” Skirt--.307”
My thoughts on the lower avg speed has to do with head size. I can feel a difference when closing the chamber on the JSB. It takes a little extra push to seat. I believe the tighter fit adds a bit more friction and thus the slightly slower FPS.
I hope this is helpful to someone, I will continue to test. I really like the thought of never having to weigh another pellet!
I have attached photos of several groups shot side by side on the same morning. Both were under 1 inch CTC. Also, I placed a 100 yard target used for the GTA NUHC at 125 yards just to see what I could do.
Turned out to be pretty dang good. I plan to share this post on a few other forums so you may see it again somewhere. Thanks for reading my post!
And the winner is????
Now that testing is done which pellet are you going to order a sleeve of? ::)
-Y
With the accurassay of the JTS and not needing to weighed I am leaning toward JTS. The JSB are very accurate also, just that to achieve it at 100-125 yards they need sorting. For plinking or shooting out to 50 yards or so they do fine straight from the tin.
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Your spread sheet is awesome. I will download it and print it off so I can digest your info. Almost ashamed to post mine but you probably can make some sense out of it. Thanks for posting
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Anyone else notice the lack of PPE in that video? Is lead dust not a concern there?
I'll admit, I don't wear a mask when I smelt and cast either but many others do.
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Anyone else notice the lack of PPE in that video? Is lead dust not a concern there?
I'll admit, I don't wear a mask when I smelt and cast either but many others do.
I frequented a grain malting facility, I would of expected dust everywhere, but they have air filtration that leaves the air cleaner than normal air.
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Anyone else notice the lack of PPE in that video? Is lead dust not a concern there?
I'll admit, I don't wear a mask when I smelt and cast either but many others do.
I frequented a grain malting facility, I would of expected dust everywhere, but they have air filtration that leaves the air cleaner than normal air.
I suppose you're right, they must have a great ventilation system.
So JSB sources lead from Poland and Russia and I assume JTS sources theirs from China.
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I received my first damaged tins from PA, not their fault, it was definitely the shipper. However, the damaged tins were all JTS. I opened the tins and could not see more than a couple of damaged skirts, which was remarkable for the damage to the tins. That's when I noticed how thick the skirts were compared to JSB's. Had it been tins of JSB pellets, there only would have been a few survivors...
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Your spread sheet is awesome. I will download it and print it off so I can digest your info. Almost ashamed to post mine but you probably can make some sense out of it. Thanks for posting!
Thank you! I see you have the same type of sorting technique. That's an old spreadsheet that is a little too complexed. I have a much more refined one on my PC that is in storage at the moment. I created the spreadsheet because I sort all of my ammo in four different calibers, and I also cast pellets and slugs. I needed something to make sorting and logging much easier.
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Worn dies are not a concern it simply wont happen and why you ask? Because our machines have 30 sensors all of which will shut the machine down dead if they are tripped. Two optical comparator sensors and two weight sensors are the main one i will talk about. The two sensors 4 total measure weight to a given percentage set in the program and two optical comparators that look at every pellet and if any pellet comes down the track and is not with in the limits it will shut the machine down. We run much slower than most companies as far as production per machine but no one can get the results we have period. So if a die was worn it would trip a sensor and shut the machine down. we are currently adding more machines to keep up with demand. Also if you look at our pellets compared with the competition you will see how clean and even they look. Bob sterne was and is a major part of our pellet and slug designs and we thank him for his hard work and innovative designs. I will be traveling to China soon and will show off what I can of our machines and software its quite impressive!
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Very impressive indeed. Hats off to you and Bob and staff, thankful you are producing such fine and accurate ammo!
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At work we have a computerized sorting machine made in Poland, that does a very good job of sorting apples to their degree of ripeness, but also finds any minor flaws in the fruit. So I would hope one could sort pellets to that degree also :)
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Worn dies are not a concern it simply wont happen and why you ask? Because our machines have 30 sensors all of which will shut the machine down dead if they are tripped. Two optical comparator sensors and two weight sensors are the main one i will talk about. The two sensors 4 total measure weight to a given percentage set in the program and two optical comparators that look at every pellet and if any pellet comes down the track and is not with in the limits it will shut the machine down. We run much slower than most companies as far as production per machine but no one can get the results we have period. So if a die was worn it would trip a sensor and shut the machine down. we are currently adding more machines to keep up with demand. Also if you look at our pellets compared with the competition you will see how clean and even they look. Bob sterne was and is a major part of our pellet and slug designs and we thank him for his hard work and innovative designs. I will be traveling to China soon and will show off what I can of our machines and software its quite impressive!
travis,
thank you sir, thats quite reassuring :D
and i have to agree,
in a side by side comparison,
the jts pellets i have bought are literally the cleanest and most uniform pellets ive seen.
i dont sort,
but i glance at the back of the skirt of every pellet when loading a mag,
and ill dump out a pellet if i see the skirt is wonky,
that hasnt happened yet with any of the jts pellets i have used.
and a cool thing ive noticed,
any gun i have that likes some flavor of jsb,
will shoot the jts just as well and often better than jsb.
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X2
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Worn dies are not a concern it simply wont happen and why you ask? Because our machines have 30 sensors all of which will shut the machine down dead if they are tripped. Two optical comparator sensors and two weight sensors are the main one i will talk about. The two sensors 4 total measure weight to a given percentage set in the program and two optical comparators that look at every pellet and if any pellet comes down the track and is not with in the limits it will shut the machine down. We run much slower than most companies as far as production per machine but no one can get the results we have period. So if a die was worn it would trip a sensor and shut the machine down. we are currently adding more machines to keep up with demand. Also if you look at our pellets compared with the competition you will see how clean and even they look. Bob sterne was and is a major part of our pellet and slug designs and we thank him for his hard work and innovative designs. I will be traveling to China soon and will show off what I can of our machines and software its quite impressive!
thank you Chris.
travis,
thank you sir, thats quite reassuring :D
and i have to agree,
in a side by side comparison,
the jts pellets i have bought are literally the cleanest and most uniform pellets ive seen.
i dont sort,
but i glance at the back of the skirt of every pellet when loading a mag,
and ill dump out a pellet if i see the skirt is wonky,
that hasnt happened yet with any of the jts pellets i have used.
and a cool thing ive noticed,
any gun i have that likes some flavor of jsb,
will shoot the jts just as well and often better than jsb.
-
Worn dies are not a concern it simply wont happen and why you ask? Because our machines have 30 sensors all of which will shut the machine down dead if they are tripped. Two optical comparator sensors and two weight sensors are the main one i will talk about. The two sensors 4 total measure weight to a given percentage set in the program and two optical comparators that look at every pellet and if any pellet comes down the track and is not with in the limits it will shut the machine down. We run much slower than most companies as far as production per machine but no one can get the results we have period. So if a die was worn it would trip a sensor and shut the machine down. we are currently adding more machines to keep up with demand. Also if you look at our pellets compared with the competition you will see how clean and even they look. Bob sterne was and is a major part of our pellet and slug designs and we thank him for his hard work and innovative designs. I will be traveling to China soon and will show off what I can of our machines and software its quite impressive!
Sounds good.
It all depends on how tight you set the parameters! We will see!