GTA

Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => 3D printing and files => Topic started by: subscriber on May 25, 2023, 09:19:56 PM

Title: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: subscriber on May 25, 2023, 09:19:56 PM
The 12 FPE .22 Notos PCP is quiet from the factory.  For those who want to hear the hammer drop on firing, rather than the muzzle pop, I offer an extended insert, in two flavors: 

With grooves to hold O-rings, to help center the insert in the stock Notos housing; and a version without the O-ring grooves.

See images below to understand the differences.   STL print files are attached directly below.
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: subscriber on May 25, 2023, 09:30:04 PM
As the above Notos custom insert works rather well, I thought I would offer self-contained versions of the design for general consumption.  These may be attached directly as printed, to any platform that has a matching male threaded stud. 

While these bits are intended for 12 fpe, they should be good to 30 FPE.  For .177 and .22 only.

The first version below has a 1/2 - 20 UNF female thread. 
The second has a 13/16 - 28 female thread.  That is the same thread as a stock Marauder shroud; so a male thread adaptor will be required.

The STL files are attached directly below.
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: miksatx on May 26, 2023, 11:23:35 AM
Finished doing the 1/2”x20 inspired. Used my AirMax .22 for test.
No ldc 111.4 dBA
With Donny tanto 99.2
Inspired ldc 96.1
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: subscriber on May 26, 2023, 01:45:38 PM
Wow, Mike; thanks for your swift work

I hope your result encourages more people to try it.

Oh, by the way, what pellet weight and velocity were those sound values captured at?
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: subscriber on May 26, 2023, 02:09:29 PM
I don't want to be an ingrate, Mike, but do you have a 12 FPE .22 platform that you could try this LDC on?   Tested with the same setup as the Airmax.

Thanks again
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: miksatx on May 26, 2023, 04:02:49 PM
Wow, Mike; thanks for your swift work

I hope your result encourages more people to try it.

Oh, by the way, what pellet weight and velocity were those sound values captured at?
Crosman hp 14.3 825fps bout 20fpe.
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: subscriber on May 26, 2023, 04:36:29 PM
Thanks, Mike.  That is 21.6 FPE
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: subscriber on May 29, 2023, 06:25:54 PM
I realized yesterday, that despite the Notos being rated at 13 FPE on the PA site, it shoots at 19 or 20 FPE as set from the factory.  So, the guys that are now able to hear their hammer strike with my extended insert design installed, are actually shooting at 19 to 20 FPE (confirmed).

This means my statement about "intended for 12 FPE" is incorrect, because clearly it works at almost double that...
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: bruce.net on June 24, 2023, 10:14:55 PM
Thanks for all your work on these. Notos came in Wednesday, hand pump Thursday, printed Friday. I only had PLA which held up great for the 30 shots or so I tested it. Between the print and turning down the hammer spring results in LOUD targets and a quiet Notos.  Reprinting now with some fresh PTEG.

Bambu Lab prints it 4 walls / 100% infill in just over 2.5 hours. 
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: subscriber on June 24, 2023, 10:20:15 PM
Thanks, Bruce

Never heard of Bamboo labs before. 2.5 hours seems very fast.  Link for interested parties:  https://bambulab.com/en/p1

Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: bruce.net on June 25, 2023, 11:01:26 AM
The Bambu Lab printers are pretty amazing.  I have been printing stuff for a few years, started with a Wanhoa Duplicator, then an Ender 2.  After "upgrading" to an Ender 3 Pro late last year, and its motherboard failing after a week, I started to research and came across Bambu.  They were just getting started after a Kickstarter campaign for their flagship, and were releasing the P1P around Christmas.  Not cheap at $699, but in line with the Prusa and other higher end consumer printers.

I printed another cone last evening in PETG, but I left it at normal speed.  The printer is so fast that it shakes the entire frame, so taller prints show more quality issues.  I reprinted overnight at 50% speed and it came out perfect.  It took 4.5 hours.

Hopefully I can attach the pictures, black is the PETG, white was the initial PLA print.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: subscriber on June 25, 2023, 11:09:14 AM
Nice looking prints; even at "half" speed.  What is the nozzle diameter; and vertical step size you used?
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: bruce.net on June 25, 2023, 01:09:07 PM
.4 nozzle and .20 layer height.

Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: subscriber on June 25, 2023, 02:07:43 PM
Thanks, Bruce
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: psdavidson812 on July 28, 2024, 05:25:57 PM
Subscriber,

is the short snout basically turning the end into another baffle or is there a reason for a long or short snout?

Thank you sir.
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: subscriber on July 29, 2024, 12:03:49 AM
Patrick,

There is a cavity between the barrel muzzle and the snout inside the stock outer cannister.  The length of the snout affects how far the pellet has to travel before it is in the relatively "wind-still" "shadow" behind the first air stripper.  The longer snout protects the pellet better from initial turbulence, just after it leaves the barrel, but more air will follow the pellet into the second baffle chamber, and that could make the system louder.  So, the longer and shorter snout versions were experiments to see if there was a clear winner for group size and sound reduction. 

In this instance there is no clear winner.  So, either style would work at stock power level or below.  If you could increase the power by 50 or 100% there might be more of a difference in performance.   As this system seems quiet enough, grouping ability would be the metric for making the choice.   If again, the performance for the long and short snout versions are similar, then that suggests a robust system that is rather forgiving.

Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: psdavidson812 on August 01, 2024, 09:38:17 PM
Patrick,

There is a cavity between the barrel muzzle and the snout inside the stock outer cannister.  The length of the snout affects how far the pellet has to travel before it is in the relatively "wind-still" "shadow" behind the first air stripper.  The longer snout protects the pellet better from initial turbulence, just after it leaves the barrel, but more air will follow the pellet into the second baffle chamber, and that could make the system louder.  So, the longer and shorter snout versions were experiments to see if there was a clear winner for group size and sound reduction. 

In this instance there is no clear winner.  So, either style would work at stock power level or below.  If you could increase the power by 50 or 100% there might be more of a difference in performance.   As this system seems quiet enough, grouping ability would be the metric for making the choice.   If again, the performance for the long and short snout versions are similar, then that suggests a robust system that is rather forgiving.

 Subscriber,
 Thank you for the explanation and all of your hard work.
 I am working on for a HPA airsoft gun and have been look at your design. As impatient as I am, I got my Notos in the mail yesterday and planning on starting the mods this weekend. I have my .2 test print on the printer now and plan on doing a .08 layer later after test fit.
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: subscriber on August 02, 2024, 12:20:34 AM
Patrick,

HPA airsoft is likely to be loud due to supersonic projectile velocities.  No moderator can reduce that supersonic crack sound of the projectile.

Also, the plastic balls might not travel straight down the moderator due to a lack of rifling spin, and large projectile OD to barrel ID clearance.  Unless I misunderstood you, there is a potential for the plastic balls to damage the moderator unless you use generous clearance between baffle bores and projectile.

Perhaps you meant BBs?  Lead or steel BBs should shoot straighter than plastic ones from a smooth bore barrel.  Still, you want to keep the velocity below 1050 FPS, as above 1100 to 1150 FPS they will make a loud whip cracking noise.
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: psdavidson812 on August 03, 2024, 10:27:47 PM
Patrick,

HPA airsoft is likely to be loud due to supersonic projectile velocities.  No moderator can reduce that supersonic crack sound of the projectile.

Also, the plastic balls might not travel straight down the moderator due to a lack of rifling spin, and large projectile OD to barrel ID clearance.  Unless I misunderstood you, there is a potential for the plastic balls to damage the moderator unless you use generous clearance between baffle bores and projectile.

Perhaps you meant BBs?  Lead or steel BBs should shoot straighter than plastic ones from a smooth bore barrel.  Still, you want to keep the velocity below 1050 FPS, as above 1100 to 1150 FPS they will make a loud whip cracking noise.
I got one made for the airsoft. the fps is only 320. and only pushes 100psi. It works good, I used acoustic foam and a baffle design like you used. Do you think this would also work for an airgun. Baffles then a foam core?
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: subscriber on August 03, 2024, 10:38:20 PM
Patrick,

The devil is in the details.  I can't comment on a design I have not seen.

Just a head's up, this forum is for airguns shooting pellets, slugs and BBs.  They do not entertain discussions about airsoft guns.  Not unless it is pertinent to airguns shooting pellets, slugs or BBs.
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: subscriber on August 03, 2024, 10:53:09 PM
Patrick,

There is no way to attach a file to a PM, unless it is attached to a forum post.  So, here is the STEP file you requested for the Notos insert.
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: psdavidson812 on August 11, 2024, 06:43:39 PM

Just a head's up, this forum is for airguns shooting pellets, slugs and BBs.  They do not entertain discussions about airsoft guns.  Not unless it is pertinent to airguns shooting pellets, slugs or BBs.
Not sure how I miss this comment and not really sure how to take it, but may be a little bit of education is needed.  Airsoft is an airgun. It shoots 6mm BB.s plastic or aluminum at an avg from 270 fps to 450fps depending what rifle it is. It use an air piston either operated by a battery or a high pressure air system 4500 psi or lower. Most of these are tuned to 100psi output to safely  to shoot at other opponents.  Max range is around 100yds.
Both airguns and airsoft use the same type of moderator hence posting and asking questions in this forum. I was wanting  to take my knowledge of airsoft moderators to see if I could tweak the Notos some and seeing you had a great base for that ideal, I wanted to expand on it.
The most famous bb guns is the Red Ryder with the 350 fps. Do you not entertain discussions about these either?
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: subscriber on August 11, 2024, 07:04:24 PM
Patrick,

If the forum mods don't complain, I don't mind what airguns you talk about.  But, I have seen posts about airsoft get deleted, due to there being a rule against it. 

There is a forum section for BB guns:  https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=268

I agree that steel or lead BBs and plastic BBs are not that dissimilar.  It may be that people shoot at each other with airsoft for fun in mock battles.  This, while the forum wants to be disassociated from the practice, because the primary interest is shooting with metal BBs, pellets and slugs.

There is a thread about the max velocity achievable with a PCP airgun, that includes shooting a 6 mm plastic airsoft balls at well over 2000 FPS.  So, there is obviously not a rule about never mentioning airsoft projectiles. 

I think that if you ask how to increase an airsoft gun's velocity or cyclic rate, you are more likely to run into a mod that wants to enforce the rule below:

From: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=919.0
Quote
3- Subjects not related to airguns should be addressed in the “Back Room” and not on the main forums. NO DISCUSSIONS OF RELIGIOUS OR POLITICAL SUBJECTS PERMITTED AT ALL.
   (3a)- Firearm and/or Airsoft Discussions are NOT PERMITTED (we ARE an airgun forum) and will be Deleted. Repeat Offences will result in Administrative actions which can include direct warnings, probationary periods, or deletion of membership account.

I am not a spoil-sport or a stickler for rules, but want to spare you a potential negative interaction with the mods, that might leave you less interested in future forum participation.

If the above rule is a problem for you, and you think there is overlap in tech, you could talk to people privately.  Else, you could be developing BB gun tech, using airsoft to accomplish that, for all I know :)

And that is all I have to say about that...
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: avator on August 12, 2024, 09:38:30 AM
Discussions on airsoft guns shooting plastic BBs are not permitted on the GTA... Been that way for years and unlikely to change.
Arguments are futile.
There are airsoft forums for those wishing to discus them.
Title: Re: Extended Notos muffler inserts
Post by: Back_Roads on August 13, 2024, 09:20:06 AM
Discussions on airsoft guns shooting plastic BBs are not permitted on the GTA... Been that way for years and unlikely to change.
Arguments are futile.
There are airsoft forums for those wishing to discus them.
I just joined a crossbow forum to find out  more about a used crossbow I just bought ;)