GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Big Bore AirGun Gate => Topic started by: 35 shooter on May 07, 2023, 12:21:57 AM
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Reached a deal with a member here on a 35 cal 24” bbl. AEA rifle.
I’ll be sending the money for it this coming Monday, but want to get ahead of the game on a Noe bullet mold.
NOE is running low on suitable airgun molds in 35 right now, but I found a few that sound about right for the velocity of this rifle.
358-124-TC-R4-PB
359-115-RF-R2-PB
359-93-RN-S3-PB
HTC359-95-RF-CH6
Anyone here using one of these in their 24” bbl. Challenger rifles? I realize the .359” would need sizing.
The HTC mold is designed for powder coating, but I take it that’s with pb rifles in mind as it drops at .359 and would have to be sized down for the challenger., so no need for powder coating.
The HTC mold drops a 95 gr. hollow base, or a 125, 158, or 180 gr. plain base depending on what pins you use.
Very interesting mold for sure.
This one does’nt have traditional lube grooves, but does have one very shallow groove.
What’s the opinion on this mold for the 35 challenger with sizing to .356,,357 or .358” in mind…. Whichever size the rifle likes best?
Anyone used this one or one of the others I mentioned?
I was intending to go with a pellet and bbt mold, but their out right now.
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No suggestions? I’ve tentatively settled on the Noe 359-115 rf mold for now. That way I can size to whatever the rifle likes.
Once I have rifle and mold in hand I’ll put up some range results.
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Recieved the rifle today along with one of Neil’s LDC’s, which came with the rifle and was already set up for.
Also recieved a Lee Magnum ladle pot and a Lee 125 gr. double cavity .358 mold.
Should have my .356 and .357” size sides by Wed.
No time to shoot today, but I did give it some air and it’s holding. This one has a gauge that’s in mpa, but I take it the outer no’s. are psi?
Previous owner also sent a tin of pellets along with it…. just need to get a scope mounted now.
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I was wrong… only one set of no. on the dial, so must be mpa.
Anyway 3200 psi is a bit over 22 mpa and I have to go to 3500 psi or 250 bar on my hand pump to show 240 bar on my 22 challenger gauge so I’ll go by that and not go past 22 mpa to start with till I see how close the pump gauge and rifle mpa gauge agree.?
The mpa thing is all new to me, but I looked up the conversion formula for psi to mpa online.
Anyway, 240 bar is the sweet spot on my 22 challenger, so probably a good place to start on the 35.
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Adding a hammer spring adjuster lets you move the sweet spot to what ever power level you want, my .30 can go from 50 fpe up to 110 fpe, and I may have a little extra in the tank yet if I wanted.
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Following. Cheap power of this gun has me intrigued. I have the std 30 and have been pretty happy with it.
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The hammer spring adjuster is interesting for sure, but I’ll probably leave it as is for now anyway, at least untill I’ve done a good bit of shooting with it in stock form.
Like bear air, the power for the price and simplicity of this model has had me interested for quite some time now.
Pretty tied up with work this week, so may be the weekend before I start any serious shooting with it.
Still have to mount a scope and cast some bullets too. The sizer dies came in today so I’m good to go. ;)
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In the mean time, this is a chrono string of 15 shots from a 3500 psi fill down to 1500 psi shot on the 4th of this month that the previous owner of this rifle sent me.
The bullet used was a 9mm 125 gr. rn @ between .355-.356” dia.
Naturally the first few shots show valve lock, but there is a nice string in the middle.
1. 694 fps. 133.6 ft. lbs
2. 749 155.9
3. 786. 171.7
4. 833. 192.5
5. 884. 216.9
6. 909. 229.6
7. 898. 223.8
8. 870. 210.1
9. 851. 201.2
10. 842. 196.9
11. 826. 189.3
12. 786. 171.7
13. 779. 168.7
14. 749. 155.9
15. 731. 148.2
Looks like 6 pretty good shots from no. 5 thru 10.
That’s the fill I’ll be looking for for hunting.
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Might be able to get a few more shots by throttling back the tp adjuster to about 850 fps for max at the top of the bell curve. ???
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Might be able to get a few more shots by throttling back the tp adjuster to about 850 fps for max at the top of the bell curve. ???
No tp adjuster on the 35 cal is there? At least no dial like on 22 thru 30 cal.
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Hold ups hold ups hold ups lol.
The lee size dies were way under size for what I wanted.
The .356 size die sized to .355” and the .357 size die turned out .3555”.
The .3555” may have worked, but I was aiming for .356 and .357”.
The previous owner reported good accuracy with around .356”.
Anyway, I opened the die’s a bit with a wood dowel and sand paper on a drill bit. Did’nt take long, but ate into my range time yesterday >:(.
I did get a scope on and shoot one pellet to adjust the scope a bit and had to quit for the day.
Back to work for now, but I’ll get it to the range first chance I get. Probably Sat. Or Sunday.
I lubed the 125 gr. Rf bullets with BLL…. Ben’s Liquid Lube from the cast boolits site. May not be the cat’s meow for airguns, but it’s served me well in pb rifles for years shooting cast…. We’ll see!
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Got to the range today finally. I did’nt take the chrony as I just wanted to see what shot best from .355 to .3575” with the 125 gr. RF nose lee bullets and get a sight in.
I left home without my front rest, so just used some folded towels for that.
I have’nt slugged the bbl. yet, but was convinced somewhere between .357” and .358” would shoot well from reports I’ve read about this rifle.
Wrong…. Don’t know for sure if it was because I lubed the .3565 to .3575” bullets or if it was the dia., but I could’nt get any consistency at 50 yds. with them starting at a 240 bar fill. It would group a few into 2 1/2” to 3”, then change impact 6 or 7” to the right or sometimes left…. Frustrating!!
I began to suspect the scope( a utg 3x9 AO) as I pulled it off a mag. springer to put on this rifle.
Long story short, I had some .355 and .3555” unlubed bullets that I had sized before I opened the lee size dies up.
There is a little up down “ play” in the bbl. shroud, so it could probably benefit from a bbl. band….I know my AEA Challenger in 22 cal. did. Anyway I was about 6 shots into a fresh 240 bar fill and decided to try the .355” unlubed bullets and it started to shoot pretty well at 50 yds.
1st 3 went into 1” center to center, then it dropped a couple of inches and put the next 3 into 1 3/16”, then dropped about 2 1/2” more and put the last two shots into another 1” group side by side.
I “ guess “the drop every few shots was due to the low fill? They were shots 7 thru 14. Now that I “think” I’ve found the right dia. bullet I’ll take the chrony with me next time to find the best fill.
I’ll try both lubed and unlubed in .355 and .356” as I ordered .355, .356, and .357” size dies from Noe last Fri.
From the way it was trying to group the .355” bullets, I think I’ll try it again without a bbl. band for now.
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Nice work. The drop is definitely due to being unregged. My 30 cal performs in the same manner.
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Thanks bear air,
I know the importance of slugging a bbl., but was lazy and did’nt want to unscrew the bbl. to do all that.
Everything I had read up to the point of ordering molds and size dies indicated .356 to .357” for these AEA 357 guns.
Right after ordering lol, I found some older threads that say they’re closer to 9mm than .357.
Looks like that’s true at least for this rifle. Wish I had left my lee size dies alone now.
Oh well…. Got some Noe size dies headed my way..
Casting more bullets this afternoon so I’ll be ready by the time the dies get here….can’t wait to get this puppy back to the range.
I really need to get a host for sizing pics for my phone… it won’t size small enough for posting pics.
I used to do it all from a computer, but it finally went kaputz !!
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The NOE size dies came today and I have both .355 and .356” sized bullets unlubed( based on last weeks findings) ready to try.
Headed to the range Sun. afternoon.
The chrony goes with me this time.
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good luck with your quest.
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good luck with your quest.
Thanks!
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Definitely need a new scope. The crosshairs are square on my utg 3x9 and nothing seems to be loose or rattling inside it when I tap on it with a wood dowel, but it would’nt keep it’s shots on a 16” wide by 3 ft. tall box at 50 yds….. or 25yds. for that matter… ggggrrrrr!
As I said earlier in this thread, the scope came off a mag. springer so it’s probably seen it’s better days.
I did manage to get chrony no’s. till I get a new scope.
The previous owner used a 125 gr. Rn bullet compared to my 125 gr. rf bullet.
At a 3500 psi fill I did’nt get the no’s. he got with the rn bullet, so my rf bullet is causing more friction in the bore I guess.
Anyway at a 3500 psi fill and a .355 dia. bullet I got
1. 869 fps. 209.6 ft. lbs.
2. 844 fps. 197.7 ft. lbs
3. 822. 187.5
4. 802. 178.5
At 3700 psi and a .355 dia. I got
1. 876 fps. 213 ft. lbs.
2. 852. 201
3. 831. 197.7
4. 810. 182.1
5. 790. 173.2 this was my most consistent string with a 20 to 24 fps. drop in velocity per shot.
At 3700 psi fill and .356” dia.
1. 890 fps. 219.9 ft. lbs.
2. 864 201
3. 843. 197.2
4. 820. 186.6
5. 791. 173.7
With a 21 to 29 fps. drop in velocity per shot.
3700 psi fill and a .3575” dia. I got
1. 862 fps.
2. did’nt register ( I actually think it missed the chrony at 3 ft. )
3. 815
4. 788
I quit at that point as the larger dia. bullet was definitely putting out more friction in the bore and I got scared because the way my scope seemed to be moving impact so much each shot I realized I was lucky I had’nt hit my chrony which was 3 ft. away from the bbl. :o :-[.
I’ll pick up a new scope sometime this week and try try try again on the accuracy department. ???
Probably order a bbl. band for it too as the shroud has just a bit of up down play in it if you pick the gun up by the bbl.
Not nearly enough to account for the wild accuracy though… got to be the scope.
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Ah nothing quite like a springer to ruin a scope! Those numbers are pretty good. Did you slug the barrel to make sure your casting the right size diameter? I've been under the impression aea barrels are looser bores, like my 30 cal is .303. A barrel band was the first thing I did to my 30 cal. Check out Bison airgun. That's where I got mine.
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Ah nothing quite like a springer to ruin a scope! Those numbers are pretty good. Did you slug the barrel to make sure your casting the right size diameter? I've been under the impression aea barrels are looser bores, like my 30 cal is .303. A barrel band was the first thing I did to my 30 cal. Check out Bison airgun. That's where I got mine.
Yeah, I’ve got a bison bbl. band on my .22 challenger. The shroud was so loose on it to the point it would rattle against the air tube if you shook the rifle while holding it lol.
I have not slugged the bore on the 357 challenger, but have size dies from .354” to .3575”. Also the bullets drop from the mold at .3575 to .358” and I tried them too.
The first time I shot the .355” it did well, but I guess that round finished the scope off for good as this weekend nothing shot well.
Pretty sure at this point it’s the scope that is the main culprit.
Oh well, I was needing a new scope for another rifle anyway, so I’ll try that first on this rifle to make sure that’s the problem and go from there on the bbl. band.
Another reason I think it’s the scope is I would make an adjustment on it and it would start to group, then shoot off the side of the box I had my target on. I would adjust again and it would put a few close, then drift off again.
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Sounds like springer magic to me lol. I went through a lot of cheap scopes in my springers in the beginning of the madness!!!! No more springers, only PCP now.
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No range time today, but I did take a 2 hour drive round trip to pick up a new Vortex Crossfire 11 scope 4x12 adjustable parallax.
This one has a bdc reticle which should prove useful on this rifle.
Got home and mounted the scope with 2 piece high Burris rings and bases only to find the objective end of the scope was contacting the bbl. shroud.
Luckily I had a one piece BKL base with rings that cleared the shroud, but being a one piece base it won’t allow clearance for the mag.
No problem for me as I always shoot it single shot anyway lol.
May shoot it in the morning or tomorrow afternoon. I’m just hoping the accuracy problem is solved now and it was just the older scope I had mounted on it that WAS the problem!!
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I put a UTG Bugbuster on my Challenger and while it isn't hole-in-hole at the 30 yards I normally shoot offhand it does keep the shots on the paper target.
Back when Bin first came out and said we could fill to 4500psi in our standard Challengers (he then changed it back when he started selling new and improved Challengers that were marked 4500 psi, perhaps so people would buy those instead of the old models) I found after testing that my sweet spot for pressure was 3800-4000 psi. Higher pressure would result in lower fps due to the pressure being more than the hammer spring could slam air out of efficiently.
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My older one was at its best bell curve at 3600 psi, I later added a hammer spring adjuster, and have a range from 50 fpe - 110 fpe, and perhaps a little more under the hood, but stopped there for a decent shot string, and from there I have .35 Recluse to take up the slack, and so on and so forth LOL
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7982)