GTA
Target Shooting Matches, Discussion & Events => The Long Range Club => Topic started by: Altaros on April 02, 2023, 05:31:31 PM
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hello,
since I don't have my own thread set up here yet I decided to change this and all new videos, equipment and knowledge for long range LR and extremely long range ELR airgun shooting I would share here and start with a new video where the measurements BC of our ATP King .22 40gr slugs.
For our slugs, I highly recommend using the G7 function for the ballistic calculator, not G1.
as the shape of the Altaros ATP slugs due to BT is more similar to the shape for the G7 function. I have this verified in real shoting for hundreds of meters, but also for shooting over 1000-1500m
https://youtu.be/zpVT7cQBQbY
If you have any questions about long range airgun shooting, post them here and I'll try to answer them.
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HI there, and welcome to the Long Range Club Gate.... We look forward to you becoming a member.... Perhaps you can be the first to qualify at 300+ yards.... Note there are official targets and rules, you can find them here....
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=100865.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=100865.0)
At 300 yards, we would use 3" for 3 MOA.... That means the 4 MOA circle used for qualification would be 12" diameter, and the top level (Master) would require 5 shots within a 6" circle, and all within a 3" group, center-to-center.... No other holes are permitted in the target, covered or not.... You must provide the required photos to show target and group size, range and gun used.... Give it a try!....
Bob
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Hi Bob,
thanks for the welcome.
I discovered this contest when I started this thread. I plan to print the classic A4 (I don't want to glue 2x A4 into one A3, I think the size will be enough) paper format and use it at 238m, where I have a standard shooting range, and then expand it to 300 and maybe 400 yards.
In 95% of cases I shoot alone without other shooters, but I will add classic proof things, such as scope cam video, laser distance measurement video.
Hopefully it will start to get warmer and I will have more conditions for more frequent shooting, so I don't see a problem in that regard.
The only place where there might be a bit of a problem now is with the scope for the rifle, as it is a classified project for this time until will by ready for market. But I assume that if you see that the flight time was long enough, I probably didn't shoot it with firearms and the .22LR would be a burden for me, not an improvement over the airgun.
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We trust people to be doing what they are saying.... The photos are just in the rules, as is measuring the 4 MOA ring on the target....
Bob
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The conditions haven't been quite right yet, but I'm adding the first target at 261 yards.
So I count on the 200yard label and if I understand correctly, I should fit into the class: Sharpshooter
I'll do 300 yards next time I get a chance.
https://youtu.be/vLHf8yxbLCw
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Congratulations, and welcome to NUAH.... I have added you as a Sharpshooter, qualifying at 200-299 yards.... GREAT SHOOTING !!!! 8)
I have updated the Chart in the Membership Thread as well.... ;)
Bob
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Very impressive and congratulations on making sharpshooter beyond 200 yards.
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thank you, but it's actually a bit old information. I shot this the next day when the wind calmed down
https://youtu.be/5W0HyVqREjg (https://youtu.be/5W0HyVqREjg)
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I will upgrade you to Master at 300 yards, based on this video.... In future, please make a separate post, so that I won't miss it.... Dang fine shooting Bud!.... 8)
Bob
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thanks Bob, I'll keep that in mind and make a separate thread next time.
Now I probably won't have time for a while, but then I would like to reach the 400 yard mark (on the same A4 target, it just fit into the largest 4MOA 200 yard circle and it will be 2 MOA 400 yards) but I don't think I would be able to achieve group under 1 MOA, maybe with a lot of attempts, but there is no time for that and in my opinion it does not reflect reality either.
This 300 yard target was hit as a 3 target after finding the POI. After the first 2 targets I found a suitable position to hold the rifle, so no big effort, but admittedly the conditions were very good except for the rain.
Anyway, every +100 yards is significantly harder, as the inaccuracy does not increase linearly with distance, but that I don't need to explain to you.
I also wanted to ask if the graphic chart with new data will also be modified over time?
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Very impressive shooting!
8)
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Yes, I update the chart whenever there are enough new members to warrant it, not every time there is a single change.... The next update, in a few months, will show your 300 yd. Master as a "gold bar".... Again, my congratulations, awesome shooting.... 8)
Unless there are a few people qualifying at over 300 yards, I don't anticipate adding a further category for 400 or 500 yards.... but we would love to see your results when you do!.... ;)
Bob
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Thanks again Bob. I will try the 400 yard when I get a chance. But now I won't have an opportunity with a range longer than 225yr for at least another week.
One small plinking when testing ATP Queen slug in size 6.36 and FX STX slug barrel
https://youtu.be/fH3WpmGOGlQ (https://youtu.be/fH3WpmGOGlQ)
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Note that in future, you should be using a target with a 4 MOA ring at the distance you are shooting.... I didn't worry about it as you had a video, and I could see all 5 shots landing, but without the video, we would not be able to see if there were shots that fell outside the paper.... There is a 400 yard target in the downloads at the bottom of the rules page, which can either be printed on 17x22 paper, or on 4 sheets of 8.5x11 and taped together....
Bob
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Nice Ondrej
Keep make us perfect slugs.
I have get best results with Atp slugs always.
For .22 40gr king is the King 8)
Cant wait get those in my hands. .25 68gr king too long for Fx mag.
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We shot the Oregon mid/long range match today and 1st and 2nd place in that match used Altaros slugs. I was impressed. Since the Altoros slugs are supposedly machined, any chance we might see a ~72gr .257 ATP King?
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can you send me a link to purchase a TJ barrel .257 here or in a private message. I think that we might eventually be able to produce this slug with the current technology, but the best thing is to find a suitable diameter directly during the barrel test.
Now I found that the bore for .257 is .25, so I estimate that a suitable slug diameter should be around 6.41-6.45mm ( 0.252-0.254 ), which is the same size as we do for Huben rifles in .25 caliber, and therefore we are capable of this produce.
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TJsLiners1992@gmail.com
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=176856.msg156001652#msg156001652 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=176856.msg156001652#msg156001652)
I have a TJ 1:14 .257 barrel. For me, sizing slugs to .256 has worked well.
The Airforce Texan .257 and the soon to be released Benjamin Bulldog .257 are two other potential candidates for such a slug.
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We have introduced new .223 slugs that are suitable for shooting at 1000 yards and beyond.
ATP Super King .223 (.224) 67gr BC G1 0.27
https://www.militaryairgun.com/domu/224-atp-super-king-67gr-223.html (https://www.militaryairgun.com/domu/224-atp-super-king-67gr-223.html)
These slugs are suitable for shooting from 30 yards to one mile.
Demonstration of shooting at 1000 yards
https://youtu.be/t4TP22x1Pk8 (https://youtu.be/t4TP22x1Pk8)
Suitable for caliber barrel .223 (.224) with twist 1:12 and faster (1:10, 1:8). Tested in Lothar Walther barrel 755mm in Altaros M24.
P.S.
The stated price takes into account the almost 2x longer length of the slugs compared to the classic ATP .22, which means longer CNC machining time and also, due to the border length it is significantly more demanding procedure.
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Cool
What is pn for lw blank?
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I assume the V40 velocity is in fps measured at 40 metres from the muzzle?.... What is the altitude of your range, or is that taken into account in the 1022 mBar pressure?....
Bob
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Cool
What is pn for lw blank?
unfortunately I don't understand the question (I don't know what the abbreviation pn is)
To Bob,
yes it can by 40m from muzzle, I have a European LabRadar which has limited transmitter power and at longer distances the .22 may no longer measure correctly. I used absolute pressure from my weather station. Regarding the BC, this barrel does not give the maximum BC with these bullets, since the stability is at the level of 1.3, so below 1.5, which partially worsens the BC of the bullets . For full stability a 1:10 twist would be better.
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Jari (FastJ) wanted the part number for the LW blank you used....
I noticed that the first few shots at 1000 yards were quite low, and you ended up with significant holdover.... That may be because you are using the G1 drag model, which is not very suitable for airgun slugs.... The RA4 drag model (intended for .22LR bullets) is a better match, and Miles Morris has just released his new "SLG1" drag model, based on calculations for my 2.5 calibre long BBT's.... These drag models are included in George Conway's ballistics apps, available at.... https://gpc.fotosoft.co.uk/ ....
I use his "Easy BC" and "MERO" apps, which have a wide assortment of drag models built in.... The problem with the G1 drag model for your slugs is that they have much less drag than the G1 from 800-1100 fps, particularly between 900-1000 fps.... While this gives a nice BC, then when you use the G1 model to predict drop at extreme ranges, it underestimated the velocity loss, resulting in you needing holdover.... As an example, using the new "SLG1" drag model by Miles Morris for the data in your last video changes the BC to only 0.17 (remember, that is only a number), but increases the predicted drop by 8 feet (abour 2.5 metres), which would appear to be closer to what your slugs actually did at 1000 yds.... Just something for you to play with.... Some of your competitors have changed over to using the RA4 drag model, which is a better fit for airgun slugs than the G1....
Bob
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Hi Bob,
unfortunately the LW website is down, but it is a barrel blank .223 755mm long, OD: 10mm, they only have one of this type and diameter..
I have been using only the G7 function for many years ( ATP slugs have BT and the G7 function suits me best so far) . G1 is useless for shooting over 300m, but understandable for most when comparing BC.
At this distance, even a minimal change in wind from direction 6 or 12 or a small change in temperature or muzzle velocity make realative big change on impact (MV changes permanently as the barrel gets dirty and a 1fps difference is already noticeable at 1000 yards).
I added a new video with the start of the premiere. This is the shooting on the second day after the first video.
https://youtu.be/Xfg3ToDo_EM (https://youtu.be/Xfg3ToDo_EM)
I was just on the edge with the pressure in the battle, so the muzzle velocity started to decrease and thus the position of impact.
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https://youtu.be/fkFLGusBqCg (https://youtu.be/fkFLGusBqCg)
My personal record for longest hits string over 400m for a reasonable target size relative to the distance . I believe that it will also work for a target of around 1.5 MOA, as this was shot only after the first 15 shots after cleaning the barrel (that is, between 15-30 shots after cleaning the barrel) and you can see in the video how I first adjust a few click on the riflescope on beginning and then I correct the drop by using a hold over.
I made these corrections not only based on the fact that I hit the target below (when hitting this type of target below, it will swing more, as can be seen in the first couple of shots), but also based on the immediate measurement via the garmin chronograph. Record of this MV can be seen in the photo below, including marking the section in the graph in which the video was shot.
(https://www.altaros.cz/Graph.png)
After cleaning the barrel, not only the POI changes and the accuracy is gradually restored, but also that the muzzle velocity changes significantly around the first 30-50 shots, which decreases as the barrel gradually becomes dirty by lead. This is followed by stable speed and accuracy, which can last for several hundred shots depending on the type of slugs, the smoothness of the barrel, typ of lubrication of the slugs, the type of barrel (with or without a choke) and a few other parameters.
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I know that this shooting in N.U.A.H. the competition does not count, but just for the sake of comparison to a standard A4 N.U.A.H. target for 100 yards. My target was 2.25 MOA ( converted area of a square to a circle )
Unfortunately, I don't have much time, and these days it's complicated to go to a muddy field, that's why I don't like paper targets, but a target that I can shoot at as many times as I want.
(https://www.altaros.cz/target.png)
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Impressive shooting! Good job on those slugs.