GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Crosman Airguns => Topic started by: Spacebus on April 02, 2023, 09:18:18 AM
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My C362 developed a leak shortly after I got it when I left it up in the attic without any pumps for a few weeks over the winter. It won't hold air over night and the velocity goes down if I wait after pumping. I want to tear it down and fix it, but if I'm going through that much trouble I'd like to upgrade some parts. I already have the MAP transfer port which I bought when I upgraded to an aluminum upper from Baker.
Is there a drop in/off the shelf piston upgrade? There seem to be options for the valve, but all the pistons I see are for the 13xx.
Not looking to build a crazy high power MSP, especially since I don't usually pump this thing up very high. I just hate reinstalling OEM parts if there are upgrades available.
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Is it worth getting a different hammer and/or spring?
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Hammer and spring are fine, polish the area that the hammer slides, open barrel port to max .180 ish. the piston and pump cup are fine also, just replace the cup if there is leaking past that while pumping.
I did a flat top piston valve had to cut drill and thread part of the piston and screw the FT into the OE part, not sure if anyone has come up with a drop in kit yet, but OE works just as well IMO.
Hogging out the valve gives more air volume but needs more pumps to get the gain.
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Hammer and spring are fine, polish the area that the hammer slides, open barrel port to max .180 ish. the piston and pump cup are fine also, just replace the cup if there is leaking past that while pumping.
I did a flat top piston valve had to cut drill and thread part of the piston and screw the FT into the OE part, not sure if anyone has come up with a drop in kit yet, but OE works just as well IMO.
Hogging out the valve gives more air volume but needs more pumps to get the gain.
I'm betting it's a leaky poppet rather than a leaking check valve since I stored it without air and the hammer resting against the valve. Should I just get an OEM piston and valve from Crosman? I never have good luck getting a poppet to seal after it starts leaking. I'm also doubtful that both the piston and check valve are getting leaks. Maybe I should have used a water test before I took it apart 😂
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Be cheap and simple, can always try other things later, if it shoots good after. or save up and get the anniversary wood edition next ;)
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Be cheap and simple, can always try other things later, if it shoots good after. or save up and get the anniversary wood edition next ;)
I would soon as rather just get a DF MKII over the wood C362. However, I'll be happiest with just getting my 362 holding air! Maybe I should just do the old alcohol flush before I take out roll pins.
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Have you oiled it to see if it would come back to life ?
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Dang Dj mine has been up in the attic all winter too, I better go up there right now, bring it down and see how it's doing ???
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Have you oiled it to see if it would come back to life ?
Yes, but maybe I should try some "secret sauce" instead of silicone oil.
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Well I just went up there brought it down, put 3, 5 and 8 pumps through it and it seems to be right up to snuff with the wadcutters 8)
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I used pellgun oil in mine, I've probably put no more than 10 drops through it since I've owned it.
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I've researched pellgun oil and it's actually a special blend of diesel engine oil, from what I remember it's made in Australia. You can buy it but
be ready to buy no less than 50gallons of it if you want it.
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I've researched pellgun oil and it's actually a special blend of diesel engine oil, from what I remember it's made in Australia. You can buy it but
be ready to buy no less than 50gallons of it if you want it.
yeah its MONOLEC GFS SAE 30 weight
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https://f.hubspotusercontent00.net/hubfs/8151552/msds/SDS-PELLGUNOIL.pdf (https://f.hubspotusercontent00.net/hubfs/8151552/msds/SDS-PELLGUNOIL.pdf)
Yep, just straight 30 weight "NON-DETERGENT" motor oil made in TEXAS :)
Thx
Ray
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https://f.hubspotusercontent00.net/hubfs/8151552/msds/SDS-PELLGUNOIL.pdf (https://f.hubspotusercontent00.net/hubfs/8151552/msds/SDS-PELLGUNOIL.pdf)
Yep, just straight 30 weight "NON-DETERGENT" motor oil made in TEXAS :)
Thx
Ray
Pellgun oil/ monolec gfs 30 oil has a very high level of detergent in it.
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I used pellgun oil in mine, I've probably put no more than 10 drops through it since I've owned it.
I thought you were supposed to put in a few drops every hundred shots?
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https://f.hubspotusercontent00.net/hubfs/8151552/msds/SDS-PELLGUNOIL.pdf (https://f.hubspotusercontent00.net/hubfs/8151552/msds/SDS-PELLGUNOIL.pdf)
Yep, just straight 30 weight "NON-DETERGENT" motor oil made in TEXAS :)
Thx
Ray
Pellgun oil/ monolec gfs 30 oil has a very high level of detergent in it.
I was under the impression that it was the "detergent" in oil that was bad for o-rings. Is this incorrect ??
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https://f.hubspotusercontent00.net/hubfs/8151552/msds/SDS-PELLGUNOIL.pdf (https://f.hubspotusercontent00.net/hubfs/8151552/msds/SDS-PELLGUNOIL.pdf)
Yep, just straight 30 weight "NON-DETERGENT" motor oil made in TEXAS :)
Thx
Ray
Pellgun oil/ monolec gfs 30 oil has a very high level of detergent in it.
I was under the impression that it was the "detergent" in oil that was bad for o-rings. Is this incorrect ??
it dose not do anything to o rings that I have noticed. I have used standard motor oil in my crosman pumpers for years.
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I am a bit surprised that by this point someone hasn't offered an adjustable FTP setup. With the new wood versions coming out, and interest still there for this platform, I would have thought folks like Alchemy Airwerks, Alliance Hobby, or Mellon would have taken some interest it?
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I think the problem is the predecessors that used the same pump rod. The 766, 2100 and 2200 were not easily flat topped due to the valve design. Drilling and tapping the OEM piston sounds like the best option.
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I think the problem is the predecessors that used the same pump rod. The 766, 2100 and 2200 were not easily flat topped due to the valve design. Drilling and tapping the OEM piston sounds like the best option.
Only two people here that I know of did one. Back Roads did what you described, and Tack Driver 10 did an amazing custom one. I just find it interesting that no aftermarket interest developed is all. ;)
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I think the problem is the predecessors that used the same pump rod. The 766, 2100 and 2200 were not easily flat topped due to the valve design. Drilling and tapping the OEM piston sounds like the best option.
Only two people here that I know of did one. Back Roads did what you described, and Tack Driver 10 did an amazing custom one. I just find it interesting that no aftermarket interest developed is all. ;)
Maybe the 362 is not selling well enough to justify the investment
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I am a bit surprised that by this point someone hasn't offered an adjustable FTP setup. With the new wood versions coming out, and interest still there for this platform, I would have thought folks like Alchemy Airwerks, Alliance Hobby, or Mellon would have taken some interest it?
I believe I read the 362 valve is the same as a 13XX if so a 13XX Mountanin Airgun flat top piston ($25) can be easily modified to make a longer rod just by substituting a longer 1/4x20 threaded rod for the short one. You would need the flat top valve ($25) or grind yours flat. I used these in a few builds with a 2200 tube and 13XX flat top valve. Here is one of my pistons extended this way and the original Mt Air piston/valve screen shot. If I ever get around to getting a 362 it's what I would try. I used stainless steel threaded rod and nuts. (http://)
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Much easier than the cut drill and tap the OE pump to accept a Mellon FT setup, that I did, IIR parts were hard to find at the time, and perhaps I did not think of Mountain Air ???
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That is a great idea Van! Thank you for sharing that. 8)
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I am a bit surprised that by this point someone hasn't offered an adjustable FTP setup. With the new wood versions coming out, and interest still there for this platform, I would have thought folks like Alchemy Airwerks, Alliance Hobby, or Mellon would have taken some interest it?
I believe I read the 362 valve is the same as a 13XX if so a 13XX Mountanin Airgun flat top piston ($25) can be easily modified to make a longer rod just by substituting a longer 1/4x20 threaded rod for the short one. You would need the flat top valve ($25) or grind yours flat. I used these in a few builds with a 2200 tube and 13XX flat top valve. Here is one of my pistons extended this way and the original Mt Air piston/valve screen shot. If I ever get around to getting a 362 it's what I would try. I used stainless steel threaded rod and nuts. (http://)
Great idea. I will keep this setup in mind when I finally get around to buying a c362. Been working on getting my other crosmans project completed. (are they really ever done? lol)
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I am a bit surprised that by this point someone hasn't offered an adjustable FTP setup. With the new wood versions coming out, and interest still there for this platform, I would have thought folks like Alchemy Airwerks, Alliance Hobby, or Mellon would have taken some interest it?
I believe I read the 362 valve is the same as a 13XX if so a 13XX Mountanin Airgun flat top piston ($25) can be easily modified to make a longer rod just by substituting a longer 1/4x20 threaded rod for the short one. You would need the flat top valve ($25) or grind yours flat. I used these in a few builds with a 2200 tube and 13XX flat top valve. Here is one of my pistons extended this way and the original Mt Air piston/valve screen shot. If I ever get around to getting a 362 it's what I would try. I used stainless steel threaded rod and nuts. (http://)
That's what I did, except my piston didn't come from Mountain Air. It was one I got from a member on here a while back. Not sure if the maker.
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I'll check out the mountain air parts. I think I'm capable of cutting and fitting the threaded rod.
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Does anyone know the exact dimensions for the threaded rod to use the Mt. Air piston in a 362?
Would the 13xx series pump arm pin from Mt. Air be an upgrade for a 362?
The parts from Mt. Air seem like a fairly cost effective option for an upgrade for all the parts that have to come out to address my valve leak.
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This is an older thread but here's my 362 adjustable FT piston.
Modified the original 362 piston, can be either a FT or cone type.
As the saying goes......2 heads are better than one....LOL
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I remember this 8). It was a very clever solution with the option to go either way with adjustability for either type. Very nice! 8)
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I remember this 8). It was a very clever solution with the option to go either way with adjustability for either type. Very nice! 8)
It would probably been just as easy to make a separate FT piston head.
But this was a trick option I wanted to make.
Alliance hobby has an adjustable FT piston for the 362 reasonably priced at $59 shipped.
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Dang... he went all out with the options ! ;)
Very reasonable with his price. That middle one looks like a 13xx piston in brass. 8)
Yours with the interchangeable top let's you switch without having to have a second lower body. ;)
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I'm really wanting one but afraid to order from Alliance Hobby now I've heard bad things about him.
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Have you oiled it to see if it would come back to life ?
Yes, but maybe I should try some "secret sauce" instead of silicone oil.
What is this "Secret Sauce"? I have a 1960 Blue streak, and I would like to try to to see how it performs after trying a little of that in it... Before I have to have it rebuilt. Thanks!
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Wouldn't ATF be a good idea ? Doesn't harm rubber o-rings, high pressure, and I know it's good on AR-15s.. different types of o-rings out there so I don't know.
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“Secret sauce” is Mac1’s proprietary blend of oil for use in pumpers and co2 guns. It’s good stuff.
ATF is popular with a lot of airgunners and it’s another good choice for pumpers and gassers.
I used to run Lucas synthetic air tool oil but I can’t find it anymore. Now I use Marvel air tool oil. It’s not synthetic but it’s safe to use with Buna and synthetic rubber o-rings.
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Yeah after alot of reading I've come to the same conclusion as I did for the AR-15, just use motor oil on everything except inside of a AR-15 gas system or springer piston chamber.
Mix in a small amount of grease to make it a bit thicker when needed.
Tried MOLY powder mixed with alcohol for a dry lube, mixed a dab in oil or grease, went back to just oil and grease.
Would like to find something that had lots of slickness to it.
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Yeah after alot of reading I've come to the same conclusion as I did for the AR-15, just use motor oil on everything except inside of a AR-15 gas system or springer piston chamber.
Mix in a small amount of grease to make it a bit thicker when needed.
Tried MOLY powder mixed with alcohol for a dry lube, mixed a dab in oil or grease, went back to just oil and grease.
Would like to find something that had lots of slickness to it.
Not just any motor oil. Be sure it's Non-detergent motor oil.
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This is an older thread but here's my 362 adjustable FT piston.
Modified the original 362 piston, can be either a FT or cone type.
As the saying goes......2 heads are better than one....LOL
I'll most likely get a kit for the 1322 and mod it to work. But dang it's like $100 on Ebay for just the piston that looks almost identical to that one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/226505778167?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=QahDb54DSi-&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=j2mz6nWtQTW&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
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I remember this 8). It was a very clever solution with the option to go either way with adjustability for either type. Very nice! 8)
It would probably been just as easy to make a separate FT piston head.
But this was a trick option I wanted to make.
Alliance hobby has an adjustable FT piston for the 362 reasonably priced at $59 shipped.
Does adding adjustability improve the performance of the stock pump cup/valve setup?
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Performance from the original cone / valve setup, no. It simply gives you the option to set the piston length longer or shorter. I have read here where a couple members "shimmed" their pump cups believing that they were not seating properly enough. This is an option that would let you adjust it without shimming. ;)
Ron's setup is very nice in the regard that it lets you use a single piston with changeable heads to do either flat top or coned. I have his in my 367 in the flat top configuration and I am very happy with it! ;D
I think that if Alliance had sold his that way, with both heads included with the rear piston section, it would have been an ideal alternative to people who might later decide to change from FT to cone or vice-versa. It is still a nice alternative sold as is and at a decent price.
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Getting Mr Ron to build me one, alot of it Just Because lol. Like alot of things, is it really needed ? No, do I want it. You betcha.
But I read that they have benefits for lower pump counts.
Talking about adjustable flat top piston setup.
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The adjustable piston can make sure you get more air in the valve per pump resulting in more fps at lower pump count. Some, but maybe not all, non adjustable pistons leave a bit of air trapped between pump cup and valve at end of stroke. That was happening with my non adjustable Blue Streak. Just adding Mac1 adjustable rod to the gun and adjusting a slight bit longer it went from 645fps at 8 pumps to 695fps at 8. I only had to go about a half turn longer on the rod to get more air in the valve per pump. It can also happen on flattop setups if there is space left on too short of a stroke resulting in trapped air that does not get into the valve.
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I've always been in the mind that as long as it's not overly difficult or costly and you can actually see gains from a mod, why not get the most efficient setup.
Just if the cost and difficulty are just not worth it then I'll settle for what it is, the 362 is a cheap Crosman I know. But if I can get high 600s with 18+gr Crow Magnums and 700+ with 14+gr I'd be very happy.
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I will leave my 362 as is on the pump setup. It is doing very well at 8 pumps with 14.3g pellets. It gets slightly over 700fps if I make sure I open the pump arm all the way at the top stroke. It seems to be setup pretty well for pumping with the factory pump system. If Mac1 gets back going full time I wish he would offer a Steel Billet Pump Arm as he did for the 392 Benjamins. I have one of those and it is great. You will never bend it pumping and has no wiggle as it sets in a solid steel end plug like a Sheridan.
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I know to leave the internal volume in the valve alone, but I will smooth out the exhaust port, BOSS transfer port and extended prob bolt. That with the adjustable flat top piston and valve face, what ever that gives me it is what ever it turns out to be. I'll have to wait and see if it needs a softer valve spring or not and I'll stick with the stock hammer and spring setup.
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I wonder how much of an effect the FT valve and piston would have on a 2100 or 2200.......
I'm sure it has been done before.....
The valves in those rifles are shorter than in the 362.
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I wonder how much of an effect the FT valve and piston would have on a 2100 or 2200.......
I'm sure it has been done before.....
The valves in those rifles are shorter than in the 362.
I don't think the short front cone on a 2100 can be ground down flat without getting into the check valve. I have put a flattop 1377 valve and adjustable piston into a 2100 tube by notching the valve body to slide back in the tube but this was using all 1377 parts to make a extended tube 1377 though. The modded 1377 valve and piston might not work in a 2100 style gun but it would be fun to try.
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Maybe the configuration wouldn't need to be flat....
Possibly do an inverse taper in the piston to match the nose of the valve.
What matters is the elimination of headspace between pump and valve faces.
I don't know how close to the lip the O-ring cam be placed......
May have to use a thinner CS O-ring.........
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.