GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: desmobob on February 20, 2023, 05:16:29 PM
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I just received an AirForce TS1 Adaptive diopter sight and mounted it on my HW35E. The OEM Weihrauch globe sight is too short to work with the new TS1 sight.
TS1 sells an affordable front globe sight that's height adjustable but it's made to fit an 11mm dovetail. And, so it seems, is every other similar front sight I've looked at.
I've been on the phone this afternoon, looking for a solution. I talked to AirForce, Pyramid Air, Champion Shooters Supply, Creedmore Sports and Pilkington Competition and no one has been able to help. I filled out an e-mail query with Weihrauch and I'm waiting to hear from them.
Does a riser block with 9mm dovetails exist? Or a 9mm-to-11mm adapter block? Or a "tall" version of the OM Weihrauch globe front sight?
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You'll probably have to have a machinist cut one for you. They don't exist as far as I can tell. I (and others) have looked high and low for a front sight riser to use and with the the newer stocks that have high combs that make irons and peeps difficult for most people to use. Eleven millimeter riser are commonly used in Anschutz 10m target rifles. Nine mm not so much. There might be taller Anschutz front sights that will work. Might, the key word. Some Anschutz rifles use the same front dovetail size as the Weihrauchs. This is an expensive quest as nothing Anschutz is cheap.. Might be easier to have a gunsmith with an endmill cut you one.
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I have a late model R9. First thing, I corrected the mishapen cocking arm lever many of these guns have that causes an improper breech lockup and excessive barrel droop. That done, I measured the barrel's plane with a straight edge and determined my barrel is actually oriented slightly upward (imperceptible to the naked eye).
With an old Walther rear sight mounted and the vertcle adjustment bottomed out (and Weihrauch tunnel sight mounted), my groups were landing low at 10 yards.
I swapped out the HW front sight for a modified plastic Daisy globe sight and fired more groups. The swap raised my groups enough that I was shooting nearly center mass at 22 yards with the Walther cranked up 15 clicks or so.
The Daisy sight is for 3/8 dovetails so I removed (sanded) some plastic from the two piece tunnel clamp, enough for the piece to adequately grip and secure the sight to the barrel.
While I would prefer a lower comb, I can't say the comb it has would keep me from continuing to use it as is. Not what I would call uncomfortable.
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I guess I'll try to make something up with a scope ring that is capable of clamping onto the Weihrauch barrel's 9mm dovetail... grinding off the top part and attaching my Weihrauch globe sight to it, or do something similar with a spare Weihrauch globe sight that was taken off another HW rifle that is currently scoped; grafting the two together to make one taller version.
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Think about a 8mm to 11mm adaptor. 3-D printed maybe?
I just stuck with the Williams and front OEM. Think about ditching the AirForce rear?
-Y
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Think about a 8mm to 11mm adaptor. 3-D printed maybe?
I just stuck with the Williams and front OEM. Think about ditching the AirForce rear?
-Y
I don't know anything about 3-D printing. Would it create something strong enough for this application? The part of the sight base that engages inside those dovetails is mighty thin... I'm thinking steel is necessary.
I have and enjoy two of the Williams sights (I just put one back on the HW35E today) but I hate needing a screwdriver to make adjustments. Even the model with target knobs requires that you have a screwdriver for the lock screws.
The AirForce sight can be adjusted with the target knobs alone, which are large and have indexes that can be reset to zero after sighting in. It also has a more robust clamp and construction and accepts standard apertures, etc. I think it's worth keeping. I like being able to record POI differences of favorite pellets. For example, on one of my rifles equipped with a scope with target turrets, I have the turrets zeroed for RWS Superdomes. If I want to switch to cheaper CPHPs for plinking, I can quickly adjust the turrets to the settings necessary (written on a sticker on the scope caps) to adjust the POA for those pellets, and then back again.
Bob
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Well then find a machinist... :D
-Y
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I forgot to mention the Daisy globe uses 18mm inserts which is a big plus over the Weihrauch sight.
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I forgot to mention the Daisy globe uses 18mm inserts which is a big plus over the Weihrauch sight.
Thanks for the information. Your previous post that talked about the Daisy sight bringing your groups up led me to believe the Daisy front sight was shorter than your previous sight, so I didn't think much about getting one.
But if I'm going to try to make one tall front globe sight from two standard sights, using the Daisy sight would probably make it a less expensive experiment.
Bob
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I just remembered. Someone on another Air gun forum made a front riser by modifying a dovetail to weaver to adapter or vise versa. I'll see if I can find it and forward it to you.
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Thanks Ron. I saw that post when I was endlessly searching for a solution. ;)
I have a couple of scope rings that are said to mount on 9mm-11mm dovetails. If that's true, I may go after one with the grinder, Dremel and files. ::)
Bob
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I forgot to mention the Daisy globe uses 18mm inserts which is a big plus over the Weihrauch sight.
Thanks for the information. Your previous post that talked about the Daisy sight bringing your groups up led me to believe the Daisy front sight was shorter than your previous sight, so I didn't think much about getting one.
But if I'm going to try to make one tall front globe sight from two standard sights, using the Daisy sight would probably make it a less expensive experiment.
Bob
The Daisy sight is a bump higher than the Weihrauch's globe sight but not by much. Whether it will be solution for you depends on how low your rear sight will adjust.
You may be able to source the globe sight without the metal base, I don't know. The Daisy steel muzzle weight that is supplied with the globe is not thick enough to bore and slip on the R9 barrel. Fortunately for me it was not required.
I read the Centra 8mm Walther riser set will clamp onto the Weihrauch 8.5mm muzzle dovetail but I cannot confirm it. The poster (British) used a Centra 8mm riser for Walther (See attachment)
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/weihrauchowners/hw30s-front-sight-riser-t27210.html (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/weihrauchowners/hw30s-front-sight-riser-t27210.html)
AGN: discusses the riser made it out of a Weaver brand dovetail-to-picatinny mount.
"Barrel Droop? To Bend or not to Bend! “REVISED”."
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Seems you found it without me. Here it is to help anyone out in the future
https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/weihrauch-front-sight-riser.1267933/ (https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/weihrauch-front-sight-riser.1267933/)
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A very interesting feature of the TS 1 sight, is that the big fat anti-glare tube in the front...will come off the sight base, and fits perfectly in a 1-inch scope ring. If you can find a low enough ring, that might be a solution. Saves a lot of weight, too.
The 9 mm +/- front sight rail spacing on HW barrels was used for many years on Diana and - more importantly - Anschutz rifles. Surely there are some simple Anschutz risers out there somewhere that will do the job. Switching to the Anschutz front sight with M18 sleeve thread also opens things up to a world of cool accessories.
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I have an Ebay Anschutz tunnel on my D34. They show up occasionally, usually in Europe, and the actual dovetail measurements are almost never mentioned.
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A very interesting feature of the TS 1 sight, is that the big fat anti-glare tube in the front...will come off the sight base, and fits perfectly in a 1-inch scope ring. If you can find a low enough ring, that might be a solution. Saves a lot of weight, too.
The 9 mm +/- front sight rail spacing on HW barrels was used for many years on Diana and - more importantly - Anschutz rifles. Surely there are some simple Anschutz risers out there somewhere that will do the job. Switching to the Anschutz front sight with M18 sleeve thread also opens things up to a world of cool accessories.
Without actually looking/measuring, I assumed using the scope ring mounting option wasn't a possible solution. You know what they say about assuming...
Thanks; I'll check it out.
And as you and Artie have pointed out, an Anschutz sight might be a solution.
Thanks, gentlemen.
Bob
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I just had an "Ah ha!" moment. The mention of sights on eBay made me think of the fellow from Bulgaria who sells all the vintage aperture sights, etc. It seems he has a ton of globe sights listed, too.
I just sent him a question via eBay to see if he knows of, and maybe has for sale, a globe sight that will fit the 9mm Weihrauch barrel dovetail and is slightly taller than the standard Weihrauch globe front sight.
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Really seems like a simple riser block is all you need, here's an example with an option for Anschutz rail spacing:
https://oberleenterprises.com/product/centra-block-club-front-sight-riser-bottom-platform/ (https://oberleenterprises.com/product/centra-block-club-front-sight-riser-bottom-platform/)
Viewing a high-level 10-meter match is about as exciting as watching paint dry, but it's fascinating to look at the equipment. Most of them have all manner of risers and other goodies on the sights - the necessary bits are definitely out there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMk34YYVdRA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMk34YYVdRA)
A nice feature of Anschutz sights is that they clamp via a movable "foot," as opposed to having a fixed dovetail that must fit the barrel precisely. This makes them easy to mount, and builds in some tolerance for minor rail spacing variations. Here's one on an HW barrel, it fits fine and centers up perfectly.
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That is the same sight I am using on my Diana. They are nice sights but too low for the OP's needs with the Weihrauch. As you suggest Mike, what he really needs is a riser.
It is obvious from many old posts on this and other forums that folks have had trouble finding a remedy for the late model Weihrauch high comb with a diopter sight. I agree there must be a solution, especially since, as you mentioned, Anschutz made tunnel sights for dovetails in that size. Unfortunately I think modern times have kind of obscured the knowledge and the availability of solutions. Cheap optics have taken over I am afraid.
Many of the old Weihrauch's had dovetail notch's cut into the end of the barrel. Lyman offers different height globe sights for that situation. I have a San Rafael R7 like that. Lyman offers a globe with the European dovetail.
That is one possiblity, have the end of the barrel machined for a Lyman globe sight.
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Really seems like a simple riser block is all you need, here's an example with an option for Anschutz rail spacing:
https://oberleenterprises.com/product/centra-block-club-front-sight-riser-bottom-platform/ (https://oberleenterprises.com/product/centra-block-club-front-sight-riser-bottom-platform/)
I have previously contacted a dealer of the TEC-Hro riser blocks and they said none would fit the Weihrauch barrel dovetail.
I heard back from Weihrauch today. They have no riser blocks or adapters in their product line, and couldn't point me to any supplier. :(
My remaining hopes for a simple and inexpensive solution are with the eBay sight seller from Bulgaria. After that, it will be a ghetto/Frankenstein/hand tool adventure in the workshop! 8)
Bob
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I went thru the same thing years ago, and come up empty handed for off the shelf. You will have to make something or have one made. I seen several things that gave me ideas, most of which won’t be cheap.
Possibly something along these lines with a custom bore.
https://lostnationrd.com/product/lnrd-custom-front-globe-sight/ (https://lostnationrd.com/product/lnrd-custom-front-globe-sight/)
Or purchase a 16mm barrel adapter to 1/2” threaded end and thread on another adapter such as possibly,
https://www.rowanengineering.com/products15.htm#adaptors (https://www.rowanengineering.com/products15.htm#adaptors)
https://www.suppressor-thread-adapter.com/product/3-8-diopter-front-sight-mount/?v=7516fd43adaa (https://www.suppressor-thread-adapter.com/product/3-8-diopter-front-sight-mount/?v=7516fd43adaa)
Here would be another concept that one could possibly build from,
https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/scope-mounts/sportsmatch-problox-crosman-dovetail-adapter-rail/ (https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/scope-mounts/sportsmatch-problox-crosman-dovetail-adapter-rail/)
https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/scope-mounts/crosman-459mtc-4-piece-intermount/ (https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/scope-mounts/crosman-459mtc-4-piece-intermount/)
https://ant-supplies.uk/rail-base-mounts/diopter-sight-muzzle-adapter-bases.html (https://ant-supplies.uk/rail-base-mounts/diopter-sight-muzzle-adapter-bases.html)
Jason
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Jason, those are some great links, thanks for that!
Very interesting comments on this thread. I did not realize that standards for fitting sights had evolved so far beyond the old guns I'm used to! It's shockihg to me that it's so hard to find a simple riser for the 9mm-ish front rails that were ubiquitous for so many years.
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Short muzzle break with dovetails?
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-muzzlebrake-with-grooves?a=5875
They don't mention dt width? 3/8 or 11mm? Will need to be bored/drilled for the Weihrauch if it's a 16mm barrel.
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HW35E should be 15mm barrel.
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Short muzzle break with dovetails?
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-muzzlebrake-with-grooves?a=5875
They don't mention dt width? 3/8 or 11mm? Will need to be bored/drilled for the Weihrauch if it's a 16mm barrel.
It has an 11mm dovetail, but it's made of aluminum. I think it might be able to knock off a couple of mms with a dovetail file...
Thanks for the lead!
Bob
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I have a question I'm hoping someone experienced in metal work can help me with...
The muzzle weight/sight base that Artie mentions above is made to fit a rifle with a .585" diameter barrel. My HW35E and HW30 have a 15mm (.590") barrel.
I have a drill press and drill press vise. Would it be possible for me to enlarge the hole in that muzzle device with an ordinary 15mm drill bit on the drill press?
EDIT: Scratch that! Weihrauch's specs are wrong. My HW30 and HW35 barrel diameters both appear to be 14mm (.551").
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I found this post, not cheap...
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=197533.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=197533.0)
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I found this post, not cheap...
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=197533.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=197533.0)
Thanks.
I think I'll at least temporarily abandon my plan to add the TS1 diopter sight to one of my Weihrauch rifles. I have a high front sight for my Diana 34 Classic, which currently has a scope mounted. I'll try putting the high front sight and AirForce TS1 diopter sight on the Diana and see if it works out. I have my fingers crossed...
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I think I'll at least temporarily abandon my plan to add the TS1 diopter sight to one of my Weihrauch rifles. I have a high front sight for my Diana 34 Classic, which currently has a scope mounted. I'll try putting the high front sight and AirForce TS1 diopter sight on the Diana and see if it works out. I have my fingers crossed...
And... that was a misfire. I should have looked at the 34's stock design before considering it. Now that I removed the scope that was on it and installed the AirForce TS1 and tall Diana front sight, I notice that the rifle's high stock comb is not suitable for use with iron sights (at least for me). Frustrating. My fault; my oversight, but frustrating.
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I’ve never had issue using the TS1 on any of my weihrauch’s. At least within my envelope of use. Which is …..
-20-25 yards(ish). I may have pushed one out to 50 at some point. Don’t remember
-I use the front aperture inserts(usually the blacked out one). I have used a post with it on an HW30s in the past however.
-I have adjusted the main height adjuster all the way down. (Not the elevation adjustment, the big bolt that allows the entire sight to move up and down)
-My elevation adjustment is cranked pretty low but not bottomed out.
I’ve got this setup on
HW30s (.177 and .22)
HW95 (.22)
HW77 (.22, .177)
I also have a 35e with an, I believe, Centra rear sight that works. I may be wrong on the brand but it’s one of the more inexpensive target rifle compact rear aperture sights.
Again for my shooting envelope they work fine but keep in mind I am just a hobbiest and my skills are certainly nothing to write about so my poor skills might be playing a factor as well.
Take care, shoot safe
Chris
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My bad, the 35e rear is a Gehman compact. I tinker with SO VERY MANY things that it’s easy to forget some of the details here and there. :)
Also I do remember back in the day looking for a riser for a 35 and I never found anything I wanted to pursue.
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Had three thoughts,
1. A barrel clamp 15 or 16mm (depending on what Weihrauch silencer slip on fitment says) to 11mm dovetail.
"Weihrauch 15 mm push-on silencer fits on: HW30, HW50, HW35
Weihrauch 16 mm push-on silencer fits on: HW80, HW85, HW90, HW95"
Or
2. An adapter to adapter to sight.
Amazon search: B013XQXZ0Y
Result: Sniper Dovetail 3/8" 11mm 9mm 15mm to Picatinny 7/8" 21mm Rail Mount Adapter, Matte black
If this is accurate, and 9mm is the base, couldn't one cut to size using a metal hack saw.
Then purchase two of: B018V9VEN8
Result: dophee 20mm Dovetail to 11mm Extension Weaver Picatinny Rail Scope Mount Base Adapte
Yet another adapter to go from 20mm (picatinny) to 11mm. Do this for front and back to get both on the same plane. (Sight level).
Or
3. Remove front sight and install this 3d printed adapter. Many online services that will instantly give you a quote to print and ship any file you send them.
Site: thingiverse.com/thing:5364220
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I’ve never had issue using the TS1 on any of my weihrauch’s. At least within my envelope of use. Which is …..
-20-25 yards(ish). I may have pushed one out to 50 at some point. Don’t remember
-I use the front aperture inserts(usually the blacked out one). I have used a post with it on an HW30s in the past however.
-I have adjusted the main height adjuster all the way down. (Not the elevation adjustment, the big bolt that allows the entire sight to move up and down)
-My elevation adjustment is cranked pretty low but not bottomed out.
I’ve got this setup on
HW30s (.177 and .22)
HW95 (.22)
HW77 (.22, .177)
I also have a 35e with an, I believe, Centra rear sight that works. I may be wrong on the brand but it’s one of the more inexpensive target rifle compact rear aperture sights.
Again for my shooting envelope they work fine but keep in mind I am just a hobbiest and my skills are certainly nothing to write about so my poor skills might be playing a factor as well.
Take care, shoot safe
Chris
Chris,
My TS1 is adjusted as far down on the mount as possible. I even took it apart to be sure. The TS1 also had its elevation adjustment maxed out, with the bottom of the tunnel even dropping slightly below the level of the sight mount. I completely disassembled the TS1 to see if there might be something I could change to make it work for my application.
When I mounted it to my HW35E, I left the OEM rear sight on as co-witness for the TS1. Doing this, you can mount a diopter sight, adjust it so you're seeing your normal iron sight sight alignment through the peep, and have the rough sight-in very, very close to a final setting. I've done it when mounting other diopter sights. I found I had to shim the TS1 on its vertical sliding mount to get the windage I needed and still could not get the elevation down enough.
When I mounted it on my HW30, it didn't require the shimming for windage but still had too much elevation.
I'm giving up for now. No big deal.
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The latest discouragement was when I thought I'd customize a scope ring. I looked for a dovetail file so I could do a nice job (or at least try to). I found one. One. $54.00!
This project just wants to fight me at every turn. I'm just going to put that sight on the shelf for now. I'm sure I'll stumble across something to put it on at some point down the road.
Thanks very much to everyone who offered ideas, provided leads and showed support! I appreciate it!
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Sorry to hear that. Like I said mine are adjusted way down to work but they work, still have a few clicks but way down. Here is a group with one on a .177 HW95/R9. You ever think of maybe giving the barrel a little bend? Cheap, easy.
(https://i.imgur.com/HFIhgCmh.jpg)
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If it's working for you, it should work for me... I revisited the issue and got it figured out.
I discovered the issue by taking the sight apart again (requires circlip pliers). The sight's windage and elevation adjustments work just like a scope's. There is one spring that holds the "sight tube" against the windage and elevation adjustment screws. My HW30 requires a whole lot of left windage, so I started off by dialing that in first. When I then attempted to lower the elevation as far as possible, that spring would kink and restrict the downward movement of the "sight tube".
By adjusting starting with the windage and elevation adjustments centered, and then adjusting them alternately, a little at a time, I was able to get the full reduction in elevation necessary to zero the rifle.
Thanks,
Bob
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Great news. I’m glad you got it working.
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Great news. I’m glad you got it working.
Thank you, and good shooting.
Bob