GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Spacebus on February 06, 2023, 05:20:14 PM
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After reading a few threads about 177 slugs I decided to order a tin of JSB 10.03 KO Slugs and give them a try with the intent of poking smaller holes in game animals. Today I converted my .25 cal Bandit to 177 with the longer Chaser rifle barrel and removed the reg for max power. From 175-140b I get six shots that all touch at 55 feet from the target, which is about as far as I can hit a red squirrel in the kill zone. After testing groups and establishing a zero I went out in the woods around my house to see how well they work on the reds. I almost had three squirrels in the bag, but one appeared dead and when I approached to bag him the critter dove down a hole! I swear I shot him two or three times during the chase. Number two and three dropped dead pretty close to where they were shot, both passthroughs on the vitals. Initially I was hoping for only one hole with no passthrough, but two tiny holes is better than two larger holes.
I also managed to recover a slug from a water jug, and it expanded to .192" measured with an outside mic, which is great for my purposes. Any larger and I would just stick to .22 pellets. Judging by the expansion at 55' I'm guessing the velocity to be around 900-950 FPS.
The Bandito might be getting a bottle in the near-ish future, along with a steady diet of 10.03 KO's. If the 177 BBT mold is released without the boat tail, I think I'll get one. In lead the velocity should be high enough for plinking, but in non-toxic they should be at 950+ FPS and expand even less for smaller holes still. I'll definitely need to order a chronograph soon, even just a Chinese clamp on unit.
With a scope and a proper rest I think these slugs are sub MOA at reasonable airgun ranges and would be great at 50-100 yards. I'm using a pistol red dot and a tripod, so definitely plenty of room for error.
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I also just noticed the typo, should read 10.03 grain :-\
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Interesting test !
So you're saying that slugs are 'too much' for hunting squirrels ? Clean holes can also mean not devastating enough I think ? better a lightweight pellet with a hole for more stopping power ?
Btw your Bandit carbine looks like the ultimate squirrel slayer !
How does this configuration looks like ?
Standard Bandit with CP2 Camo stock ?
With the CP2 longer barrel ?
Which dot and moderator do you use ?
Looks like if may want to copy yours 8)
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My Bullshark is slinging them at 1000 fps and they open like a flower in the spring. I need more but Trenier is out of stock. I'm not paying PA's ridiculous price for them.
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Interesting test !
So you're saying that slugs are 'too much' for hunting squirrels ? Clean holes can also mean not devastating enough I think ? better a lightweight pellet with a hole for more stopping power ?
Btw your Bandit carbine looks like the ultimate squirrel slayer !
How does this configuration looks like ?
Standard Bandit with CP2 Camo stock ?
With the CP2 longer barrel ?
Which dot and moderator do you use ?
Looks like if may want to copy yours 8)
Looks like the standard SPA moderator and possibly a Feyachi or MidTen dot sight.
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Interesting test !
So you're saying that slugs are 'too much' for hunting squirrels ? Clean holes can also mean not devastating enough I think ? better a lightweight pellet with a hole for more stopping power ?
Btw your Bandit carbine looks like the ultimate squirrel slayer !
How does this configuration looks like ?
Standard Bandit with CP2 Camo stock ?
With the CP2 longer barrel ?
Which dot and moderator do you use ?
Looks like if may want to copy yours 8)
I think the 10.03 slugs are about perfect for the PP800/Bandit platform when combined with the CP2/Chaser rifle barrel. Last night I ordered a new chronograph, so I'll be able to confirm velocity.
This gun actually came to me this way(Bandit/pp800 action in CP2 dress) from Wes at Airgunarcheryfun.ca back in spring 2021. I have parts to convert it to a 22 pistol, 25 pistol, and 25 carbine, but both of the 25 cal barrels are rough.
The moderator is actually 25 cal unit from an Artemis M11. It's a bit longer than the PR900/Stormrider mod. It also has different threads than the barrel, but I used some thread increasers to make it work.
I'll try and remember or put it on the scale soon. The optic is an inexpensive Amazon red dot sight. I also have a cheek riser for the stock that I use when necessary for taller optics.
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Interesting test !
So you're saying that slugs are 'too much' for hunting squirrels ? Clean holes can also mean not devastating enough I think ? better a lightweight pellet with a hole for more stopping power ?
Btw your Bandit carbine looks like the ultimate squirrel slayer !
How does this configuration looks like ?
Standard Bandit with CP2 Camo stock ?
With the CP2 longer barrel ?
Which dot and moderator do you use ?
Looks like if may want to copy yours 8)
Looks like the standard SPA moderator and possibly a Feyachi or MidTen dot sight.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0794Z2HL9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0794Z2HL9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
You jogged my memory with this post so I found the listing. I wish it could do a green dot, but otherwise I have no complaints. If I can save up a bit of funds this month I'm really thinking hard about a bottle build. I'm keeping an eye out for small bottles, even 3k psi aluminum. Six shots is enough for a few hours of hunting, but it would be nice to go out and not need to take a pump or separate bottle for all day hunts.
I got my one tin "test" tin of the 10.03's from Baker through Ebay. I do want some more now that I see they can shoot with this gun. With a bottle build and a reg I think I could get more consistent groups, my six shots are still on a shallow curve with the tiny air tube and stiff Stormrider hammer spring.
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https://www.zanprojectiles.com/jsb-177koslugs1034grain (https://www.zanprojectiles.com/jsb-177koslugs1034grain) this is a decent price on the 10.03's, but I haven't checked for shipping. At less than $.03/shot (before shipping) this might become my new favorite gun/ammo combo! Perfect for hunting for plinking/practice. Now that the Stormrider has a ventless tube, I'm going to remove the plenum and tune it down for a higher shot count with CPHP for plinking rather than max power hunting.
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I got my 9ci bottle here. My 1800 psi reg came from eBay.
https://ansgear.com/tippmann-9-3000-flat-bottom-aluminum-compressed-air-tank/
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https://www.zanprojectiles.com/jsb-177koslugs1034grain (https://www.zanprojectiles.com/jsb-177koslugs1034grain) this is a decent price on the 10.03's, but I haven't checked for shipping. At less than $.03/shot (before shipping) this might become my new favorite gun/ammo combo! Perfect for hunting for plinking/practice. Now that the Stormrider has a ventless tube, I'm going to remove the plenum and tune it down for a higher shot count with CPHP for plinking rather than max power hunting.
I want to let everyone know that I did not known ZAN was in Eastern Europe! Definitely not a great price after shipping...
Seems like the best place to get them is from Baker. I'm about to pull the trigger on four tins, which should last me for quite a while. Looks like my Stormrider is getting detuned for plinking with CPHP and the Bandito will be the main hunting rig. I need to figure out a better sling situation with the long barrel. That Tippman 9ci bottle is calling my name! I wish there were a 4,500 PSI bottle of a similar size, but this will be a good way to dive into a bottle build.
Will this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082NYN57K/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_2?smid=A20PPVAILBA644&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082NYN57K/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_2?smid=A20PPVAILBA644&psc=1) bottle reg work with the Froggy drop block? I also have a random drop block with a cut tube I got second hand that I might also try, but I have no idea what the threads are.
The next project is to get my .25 cal bandit barrels sorted out and get another Bandit for conversion purposes. That will be tuned for 19-22 grain and shooting it as a pistol. Will probably get it from Wes with the BR grip already on it.
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That reg will work. Froggy uses a standard paintball thread. 5/8"-18UNF is what you need for the tank too.
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That reg will work. Froggy uses a standard paintball thread. 5/8"-18UNF is what you need for the tank too.
The only thing I don't like about that bottle reg is the lack of output pressure gauge (manometer).
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I have been running those regs for years now, never see creep , if I see a little it may be a quick temp change, fire one to clear and good to go.
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I've been building bottle guns for at least 10 years. At first I didn't like that either but I got over it. It's never caused my any issues as long as I know where it drops off the reg. I just use my chronograph to figure it out and make a mark on the gauge.
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I have been running those regs for years now, never see creep , if I see a little it may be a quick temp change, fire one to clear and good to go.
I've been building bottle guns for at least 10 years. At first I didn't like that either but I got over it. It's never caused my any issues as long as I know where it drops off the reg. I just use my chronograph to figure it out and make a mark on the gauge.
Well, I guess I have no more excuses besides being stingy. Looks like I can do the whole setup for like $150-200. I also see that you can get a Froggy drop block for the Chaser tube to have a bit shorter setup. Now I'm looking at what Wes is offering for a Chaser with BR kit...
Does anyone make a rear facing drop block for the Bandit or Stormrider?
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I have been running those regs for years now, never see creep , if I see a little it may be a quick temp change, fire one to clear and good to go.
I've been building bottle guns for at least 10 years. At first I didn't like that either but I got over it. It's never caused my any issues as long as I know where it drops off the reg. I just use my chronograph to figure it out and make a mark on the gauge.
Well, I guess I have no more excuses besides being stingy. Looks like I can do the whole setup for like $150-200. I also see that you can get a Froggy drop block for the Chaser tube to have a bit shorter setup. Now I'm looking at what Wes is offering for a Chaser with BR kit...
Does anyone make a rear facing drop block for the Bandit or Stormrider?
Just a warning about the Chaser drop block. You won't make big power with it. There's only about 4cc of plenum available.
I've never seen a reverse drop block but Froggy might be willing to make one. I sent him my Bandit tube so he could make the original.
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I have been running those regs for years now, never see creep , if I see a little it may be a quick temp change, fire one to clear and good to go.
I've been building bottle guns for at least 10 years. At first I didn't like that either but I got over it. It's never caused my any issues as long as I know where it drops off the reg. I just use my chronograph to figure it out and make a mark on the gauge.
Well, I guess I have no more excuses besides being stingy. Looks like I can do the whole setup for like $150-200. I also see that you can get a Froggy drop block for the Chaser tube to have a bit shorter setup. Now I'm looking at what Wes is offering for a Chaser with BR kit...
Does anyone make a rear facing drop block for the Bandit or Stormrider?
Just a warning about the Chaser drop block. You won't make big power with it. There's only about 4cc of plenum available.
I've never seen a reverse drop block but Froggy might be willing to make one. I sent him my Bandit tube so he could make the original.
Thanks for the tip about the Chaser block, which is unfortunate.
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I did some digging trying to find where I bought my regs, I guess AliExpress ???, anywho, I found this adjustable setup, with 2 gauges and choices of options.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/314230604136? (https://www.ebay.com/itm/314230604136?)
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I did some digging trying to find where I bought my regs, I guess AliExpress ??? , anywho, I found this adjustable setup, with 2 gauges and choices of options.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/314230604136? (https://www.ebay.com/itm/314230604136?)
That's an m18 tank thread though. The 9ci tank he's looking at is 5/8.
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I did some digging trying to find where I bought my regs, I guess AliExpress ??? , anywho, I found this adjustable setup, with 2 gauges and choices of options.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/314230604136? (https://www.ebay.com/itm/314230604136?)
That's an m18 tank thread though. The 9ci tank he's looking at is 5/8.
There is a drop down and one can pick and choose reg range and threads needed. ;)
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I did some digging trying to find where I bought my regs, I guess AliExpress ??? , anywho, I found this adjustable setup, with 2 gauges and choices of options.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/314230604136? (https://www.ebay.com/itm/314230604136?)
That's an m18 tank thread though. The 9ci tank he's looking at is 5/8.
There is a drop down and one can pick and choose reg range and threads needed. ;)
This one?
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Here is a handy picture of the oring to seal these, as that question comes up often. I recently got a more wear resistant green variety of them to test, but bags of the common ones are cheap.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8794)
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I did some digging trying to find where I bought my regs, I guess AliExpress ??? , anywho, I found this adjustable setup, with 2 gauges and choices of options.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/314230604136? (https://www.ebay.com/itm/314230604136?)
That's an m18 tank thread though. The 9ci tank he's looking at is 5/8.
There is a drop down and one can pick and choose reg range and threads needed. ;)
Ah, thanks. I was just coming off a night shift. ;D
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I did some digging trying to find where I bought my regs, I guess AliExpress ??? , anywho, I found this adjustable setup, with 2 gauges and choices of options.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/314230604136? (https://www.ebay.com/itm/314230604136?)
That's an m18 tank thread though. The 9ci tank he's looking at is 5/8.
There is a drop down and one can pick and choose reg range and threads needed. ;)
Ah, thanks. I was just coming off a night shift. ;D
Yeah I stared at the listing for hours last night making sure all options were available etc. , and then again before posting. LOL
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Something I've noticed on my Bandito is the trigger has become very light since new. Like, prematurely firing when wearing gloves light. Luckily I still made a kill shot on the squirrel, but I need to address this. I have adjusted the screw in the trigger, but it doesn't seem to do much. Any advice?
Also, just to be sure, but will the reg I posted in the screen shot work? I like that it's adjustable and looks way more convenient than the Ninja flex reg. Is it easy to bump or turn the reg while it is pressurized? Can the tank be degased without shooting it down?
Pardon the noob questions, I have zero experience with bottle guns.
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Something I've noticed on my Bandito is the trigger has become very light since new. Like, prematurely firing when wearing gloves light. Luckily I still made a kill shot on the squirrel, but I need to address this. I have adjusted the screw in the trigger, but it doesn't seem to do much. Any advice?
Also, just to be sure, but will the reg I posted in the screen shot work? I like that it's adjustable and looks way more convenient than the Ninja flex reg. Is it easy to bump or turn the reg while it is pressurized? Can the tank be degased without shooting it down?
Pardon the noob questions, I have zero experience with bottle guns.
What I would do is get each item separate, I have a feeling since there is no choice of reg pressures with the combo package, they might send the lowest pressure option. Select the reg with the pressure range you desire, then select the gauge and adapter set you need.
As far as the trigger? Try adjusting it the other way ???
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My Chaser trigger was really heavy so I adjusted the screw all the way in until the sear wouldn't catch then backed it out a little. It's on the light side now, so I need to back it out some more. I have noticed that the screw in my Bandit will back out over time so I dropped some wax on top of it.
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My Chaser trigger was really heavy so I adjusted the screw all the way in until the sear wouldn't catch then backed it out a little. It's on the light side now, so I need to back it out some more. I have noticed that the screw in my Bandit will back out over time so I dropped some wax on top of it.
I used purple loctite which I have since lost, but it works even after adjusting.
Something I've noticed on my Bandito is the trigger has become very light since new. Like, prematurely firing when wearing gloves light. Luckily I still made a kill shot on the squirrel, but I need to address this. I have adjusted the screw in the trigger, but it doesn't seem to do much. Any advice?
Also, just to be sure, but will the reg I posted in the screen shot work? I like that it's adjustable and looks way more convenient than the Ninja flex reg. Is it easy to bump or turn the reg while it is pressurized? Can the tank be degased without shooting it down?
Pardon the noob questions, I have zero experience with bottle guns.
What I would do is get each item separate, I have a feeling since there is no choice of reg pressures with the combo package, they might send the lowest pressure option. Select the reg with the pressure range you desire, then select the gauge and adapter set you need.
As far as the trigger? Try adjusting it the other way ???
Good idea. I also like how the design is modular. I could even just drop my Altaros reg in the tube with a small spacer and run without a bottle reg and probably still make as much power as I need to.
Edit: The more I think about it the more I like the idea of just using a tube reg since the bottle is only 200b, which is what the gun is rated for anyway. It would be just like adding a tube extension. Just not sure how much headspace I have to seat the Altaros tube reg and some kind of plenum spacer. A bottle reg only really makes sense for a 4,500 PSI bottle. I'll probably still buy the bottle reg with the adapter just in case I need it.
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If my old notes are reliable I was able to make 18-19 FPE (875 FPS) using 10.65 grain Barracuda Power pellets (but they could have been regular Barracudas) with the Altaros reg. The chronograph can't get here quickly enough.
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If my old notes are reliable I was able to make 18-19 FPE (875 FPS) using 10.65 grain Barracuda Power pellets (but they could have been regular Barracudas) with the Altaros reg. The chronograph can't get here quickly enough.
I'll have to try a full length spring in mine again but I'm making 19 fpe with 22 grain wadcutters and that's with an 1800 psi regulator and 5 coils cut off the hammer spring.
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If my old notes are reliable I was able to make 18-19 FPE (875 FPS) using 10.65 grain Barracuda Power pellets (but they could have been regular Barracudas) with the Altaros reg. The chronograph can't get here quickly enough.
I'll have to try a full length spring in mine again but I'm making 19 fpe with 22 grain wadcutters and that's with an 1800 psi regulator and 5 coils cut off the hammer spring.
In 25 cal that sounds right. I was getting 12.5 FPE using 22 grain wadcutters for 18 shots with a Chaser spring, Altaros reg, and 8" barrel. If the 25 cal barrels weren't so chewed up on the crowns then I wouldn't even worry about the 177 build. These guns do better when in 22 or 25 cal in terms of efficiency and peak power.
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I also found a 4500 PSI aluminum bottle for less than $50 along with some good regs for less than $50. Just need to do some accounting and see if I have the right funding.
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I am running one of those 4500 psi AL bottles on my Escape UL, I will note they weigh 2x what a 3000 psi AL bottle weighs, not bad on a rear bottle build, but way too heavy front mounted, Up the budget for about 100 one can fins CF bottles that weigh nothing, soon as I felt the light weight it went on a Prod bottle build.
3000 psi can do well regulated down to 1800 - 2200 psi and still give a decent shot count before going off reg. compare with regulated guns with similar air volume and fill pressures.
Left 13 ci AF bottle, right 4500 AL bottle.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7186)
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I am running one of those 4500 psi AL bottles on my Escape UL, I will note they weigh 2x what a 3000 psi AL bottle weighs, not bad on a rear bottle build, but way too heavy front mounted, Up the budget for about 100 one can fins CF bottles that weigh nothing, soon as I felt the light weight it went on a Prod bottle build.
3000 psi can do well regulated down to 1800 - 2200 psi and still give a decent shot count before going off reg. compare with regulated guns with similar air volume and fill pressures.
Is it really that bad? I was looking at the .25l al bottles. Well, that throws a wrench into my plan...
So far I've only ordered the drop block. Still conflicted with what output pressure I want out of the reg. Today I'll find out what's the tallest tube reg combo that will fit under the factory fill cap, assuming the Froggy drop block has the same length of threads. My thinking is that I could get a reg with 2400-3000k output and then have the Altaros in the tube to bring pressures down to final spec. I'm just copying what I've seen on the market in high end guns, so I don't know if this is even a big deal on a 3k fill compared to a 4.5k fill.
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I had a spacer left over from a Lane regulator kit for a Stormrider (the reg was exchanged for an Altaros). The spacer and Altaros reg fit in the tube with a bit of room to spare. I have an extra valve cap from a Stormrider, which has a bit more volume than the Bandit valve cap, that I can use if I need more plenum volume, but I doubt I will need it. I had planned on putting this spacer in my Stormrider, but I suppose I could just get a piece of PVC from the hardware store and make more. Anyway, I think I'll just order the tank adapter with fill nipple and manometer and just use my Altaros reg, which should be more accurate/consistent than the China regs anyway. When I save up my pennies and get a CF bottle then I'll put a reg inline and have two regs.
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If I picture this right, you would be using the guns original tube to act like FX's 2nd reg. , if so I would make the final regulated plenum large as possible, to not limit your final air output potential.
This build I use the Safe pack as the plenum, as mentioned before these regs have been reliable for me as far as no creep etc.
I can provide links for the fittings if there is any interest.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8462)
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If I picture this right, you would be using the guns original tube to act like FX's 2nd reg. , if so I would make the final regulated plenum large as possible, to not limit your final air output potential.
For my 3k build I'm ordering the 9 ci Tippmann bottle, a 5/8 UNF adapter with the check valve and manometer, and using my Altaros reg in the Bandit tube. This will keep the overall length(not including barrel and mod) and weight as minimal as possible.
If/when I go to a CF bottle I'll put a reg between the drop block and bottle and keep on using my Altaros reg in the tube. This way the Altaros reg only receives 2,400-3k PSI, where it is most consistent. I do sometimes fill to 3,200 PSI on my SPA guns with the Altaros reg fitted, but I don't think it likes anything above 3k.
However, I just got tracking on my tank adapter and it won't be here till sometime in April, so I think I'll be changing that to a different vendor...
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Yeah I been questioning overseas shipping lately, have a cart full of goodies, but holding off clicking buy until everyone recovers from the new year ::)
Most of my builds are unknown what they will actually be until I have a box of parts and options, then look at the guns that could benefit, decide on one and that usually ends up being a different build, as the parts in hand give me other ideas as the build " blue print" develops in my head. ;D
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Yeah I been questioning overseas shipping lately, have a cart full of goodies, but holding off clicking buy until everyone recovers from the new year ::)
Most of my builds are unknown what they will actually be until I have a box of parts and options, then look at the guns that could benefit, decide on one and that usually ends up being a different build, as the parts in hand give me other ideas as the build " blue print" develops in my head. ;D
I've been thinking about a Bandit bottle build since I joined GTA and saw what people are doing with Prods, Crosman HPA conversions, etc. I had no real reason until I saw the 10.03 JSBs and tested them on squirrels. I like the performance and small holes so I'm finally committing to the platform.
Since those JSBs are so affordable I can also use this gun for plinking, but I think my soon to be detuned Stormrider will fill that role. It will probably end up with a CR600 spring and reg set to 100b. That should send a CPHP at 650-ish FPS for like 50-ish shots.
Eventually I'll do a BR conversion with the folding stock and Mlok rail. I wish BR offered a full shroud with a pic top rail that would sit flush with the factory receiver when using those low profile slip in adapters. Then I could mount flip up M4 style sights and cowitness with a red dot. That's my dream squirrel gun basically. By that point I'll have $500 invested into the gun not including the 25 cal parts and stuff I've broken along the way!
I'm praying that the upcoming NOE 177 BBT mold will work with tin or Rotomix and I can have a high performance non lead slug hunter for hare sized game and smaller.
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could just get a piece of PVC
or stack some orings there
how big is that sleeve?
btw not sure how but I'd really overestimated the volume on my pr900 tube with reg, it's close to 65cc not 100cc, that leaves efficiency at a ridiculous 2 fpe/ci xD
and i have some mods coming so that WILL go up
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could just get a piece of PVC
or stack some orings there
how big is that sleeve?
btw not sure how but I'd really overestimated the volume on my pr900 tube with reg, it's close to 65cc not 100cc, that leaves efficiency at a ridiculous 2 fpe/ci xD
and i have some mods coming so that WILL go up
I'll post a pic of the spacer when I take the Bandit apart again. I had thought about a stack of o-rings, but I don't have any thick enough.
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With the spacer and Altaros reg set at 145b I'm averaging 850 FPS with an 11 FPS spread for seven shots. Not bad for such a tiny tube! Before the spacer and bumping the reg down from 150b to 145b the muzzle velocities made a decent bell curve with slightly lower peak velocity, but that's not what the reg is supposed to do! I think running the Altaros reg near/at the max setpoint causes a lot of fluctuations. I was hoping for 900-950 FPS, but I don't think I'll get there without the slightly longer Stormrider barrel. With no reg I was making a bell curve with a fairly large spread for six shots and velocity was up a bit. Peak velocity was around 145bat 887 FPS, but only for two shots and a terrible spread.
Here's the string with no reg for 15 shots starting with a 120b fill
1. (forgot to turn the chrono on)
2. 780 - 190b
3. 800 - 185b
4. 809 - 178b
5. 813 - 175b
6. 838 - 168b
7. 838 - 160b
8. 847 - 155b
9. 872 - 150b
10. 887 - 145b (17.5 FPE)
11. 885 - 135b
12. 867 - 125b
13. 851 - 120b
14. 830 - 110b
15. 800 - 100b
Reg set at 145b with spacer and 220b fill
1. 853 (16 FPE)
2. 853
3. 852
4. 852
5. 850
6. 847
7. 836
8. 816 (fill tube read about 100b at this point).
With a 200b fill the velocity drops down to 836 FPs for the fifth shot.
Possibly more impressive was the Stormrider with a 100b reg, chaser hammer spring, and 200b fill making 660 FPS with CPHP for several shots before the poppet started leaking. The only plenum was the space created by the reg cup and the taller Stormrider valve cap.
Looks like these guns don't need much in the way of a plenum.
I was going to check the zero with the regulator vs unregged but it started raining. Hopefully tomorrow morning I can make some groups before the wind picks up. It's definitely a hassle refilling every six shots, but this package is stupid light. 4lbs 0.4 oz with a loaded mag, sling, compact red dot, and LDC. I'm hoping the bottle doesn't make it much heavier. I'm considering getting a reg for the bottle valve so I can eek out a bit more velocity. However, I think that I might end up getting more expansion than I want, even with the slightly flatter trajectory that velocity will bring.
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Bottles on my chaser and bandit gives them better balance. Or at least that’s how they feel in my hands.
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Got a break in the rain so I went out to establish zero with the new tune. Just needed a few clicks of elevation adjustment and I was good to go. Even with a slight drizzle/mist and breeze I was making dime sized groups at 55'. These slugs are amazing and have made me love 17 caliber!
I also went ahead and ordered a regulator for that fill valve, just in case I can get my hands on a .177 Stormrider barrel and want to make the full power. Even at 890 FPS these slugs didn't make huge exit holes on squirrels, so I'm hoping at 900-950 they do about the same.
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Bottles on my chaser and bandit gives them better balance. Or at least that’s how they feel in my hands.
I agree. The balance is better, shot count is much better and consistency is great. Mine are all carbines anyway so I'll be keeping the bottles on them.
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Bottles on my chaser and bandit gives them better balance. Or at least that’s how they feel in my hands.
I agree. The balance is better, shot count is much better and consistency is great. Mine are all carbines anyway so I'll be keeping the bottles on them.
Wes had one last 177 Stormrider barrel left hanging around, and was even nice enough to test it for me since I asked him to look it over. So if I don't like the balance with the bottle, I'll just put the 177 barrel on my Stormrider and swap the .22 cal stuff over to the bottle bandito. These guns are so easy and fun to tinker with. I wish I had gotten into PCPs back in the "glory days" for the Benjamin Discovery/Maximus, but the SPA stuff is still pretty good.
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Bottles on my chaser and bandit gives them better balance. Or at least that’s how they feel in my hands.
I agree. The balance is better, shot count is much better and consistency is great. Mine are all carbines anyway so I'll be keeping the bottles on them.
Wes had one last 177 Stormrider barrel left hanging around, and was even nice enough to test it for me since I asked him to look it over. So if I don't like the balance with the bottle, I'll just put the 177 barrel on my Stormrider and swap the .22 cal stuff over to the bottle bandito. These guns are so easy and fun to tinker with. I wish I had gotten into PCPs back in the "glory days" for the Benjamin Discovery/Maximus, but the SPA stuff is still pretty good.
I know what you mean. I have 6 SPA guns now and I'm fighting the urge to start swapping parts around. I have them all set up like I want them, but I can't stop thinking about the possibilities of different combos.
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Bottles on my chaser and bandit gives them better balance. Or at least that’s how they feel in my hands.
I agree. The balance is better, shot count is much better and consistency is great. Mine are all carbines anyway so I'll be keeping the bottles on them.
Wes had one last 177 Stormrider barrel left hanging around, and was even nice enough to test it for me since I asked him to look it over. So if I don't like the balance with the bottle, I'll just put the 177 barrel on my Stormrider and swap the .22 cal stuff over to the bottle bandito. These guns are so easy and fun to tinker with. I wish I had gotten into PCPs back in the "glory days" for the Benjamin Discovery/Maximus, but the SPA stuff is still pretty good.
I know what you mean. I have 6 SPA guns now and I'm fighting the urge to start swapping parts around. I have them all set up like I want them, but I can't stop thinking about the possibilities of different combos.
Eventually I'll cave and get a BR AR conversion for the bandit. I'm not sold on the Stormrider conversion, and I like the pistol grip monte carlo stock anyway.
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I like my Stormrider stocks too. I don't plan to change them out.
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Well I decided to join the Stormrider group, I have an original .177 Mrod Air version inbound.
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Well I decided to join the Stormrider group, I have an original .177 Mrod Air version inbound.
I was very close to snagging that rifle myself!
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Well I decided to join the Stormrider group, I have an original .177 Mrod Air version inbound.
I was very close to snagging that rifle myself!
When he first listed it I figured it would be a super starting gun for getting into PCP I have a hunch that this gun may have been "cleaned and inspected" well before it was donated for fun shoot prizes.
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So far I love the bottle Bandito! I'm getting 35-40 shots at full power with the Altaros reg and plenum spacer using the tiny 9ci Tippmann bottle. The whole rig weighs 5 lb 1.5 Oz, or 4 Oz less than my synthetic stock Stormrider, or 8oz less than my Stormrider with the wood stock mounted. The current setup with Chaser rifle barrel is also a few inches shorter than a Stormrider.
I have a question for those who have the BR AR kit. Does the AR grip have more room in the trigger guard?
I can barely get my finger in the original with cloth gloves, much less anything insulated. If the BR kit isn't any better then I'll figure out how to modify the one I have, or see if someone can 3D Print one that has more room. Does BR do one offs? I've been avoiding the whole kit, but this tiny trigger guard is frustrating. The Stormrider has more room and may end up getting swapped to 177 if I can't do something better.
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So far I love the bottle Bandito! I'm getting 35-40 shots at full power with the Altaros reg and plenum spacer using the tiny 9ci Tippmann bottle. The whole rig weighs 5 lb 1.5 Oz, or 4 Oz less than my synthetic stock Stormrider, or 8oz less than my Stormrider with the wood stock mounted. The current setup with Chaser rifle barrel is also a few inches shorter than a Stormrider.
I have a question for those who have the BR AR kit. Does the AR grip have more room in the trigger guard?
I can barely get my finger in the original with cloth gloves, much less anything insulated. If the BR kit isn't any better then I'll figure out how to modify the one I have, or see if someone can 3D Print one that has more room. Does BR do one offs? I've been avoiding the whole kit, but this tiny trigger guard is frustrating. The Stormrider has more room and may end up getting swapped to 177 if I can't do something better.
I'm getting 0.844 from the middle of the trigger blade to the front of the trigger guard on the Chaser stock. The Buck-Rail stock measures 0.955. The inside height is the same on both.
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So far I love the bottle Bandito! I'm getting 35-40 shots at full power with the Altaros reg and plenum spacer using the tiny 9ci Tippmann bottle. The whole rig weighs 5 lb 1.5 Oz, or 4 Oz less than my synthetic stock Stormrider, or 8oz less than my Stormrider with the wood stock mounted. The current setup with Chaser rifle barrel is also a few inches shorter than a Stormrider.
I have a question for those who have the BR AR kit. Does the AR grip have more room in the trigger guard?
I can barely get my finger in the original with cloth gloves, much less anything insulated. If the BR kit isn't any better then I'll figure out how to modify the one I have, or see if someone can 3D Print one that has more room. Does BR do one offs? I've been avoiding the whole kit, but this tiny trigger guard is frustrating. The Stormrider has more room and may end up getting swapped to 177 if I can't do something better.
I'm getting 0.844 from the middle of the trigger blade to the front of the trigger guard on the Chaser stock. The Buck-Rail stock measures 0.955. The inside height is the same on both.
I suppose that's a bit more clearance, but I think I'll email BR and see if he can do one with a bit more room. Might not be possible with the big mounting screw right in front of the guard.
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So far I love the bottle Bandito! I'm getting 35-40 shots at full power with the Altaros reg and plenum spacer using the tiny 9ci Tippmann bottle. The whole rig weighs 5 lb 1.5 Oz, or 4 Oz less than my synthetic stock Stormrider, or 8oz less than my Stormrider with the wood stock mounted. The current setup with Chaser rifle barrel is also a few inches shorter than a Stormrider.
I have a question for those who have the BR AR kit. Does the AR grip have more room in the trigger guard?
I can barely get my finger in the original with cloth gloves, much less anything insulated. If the BR kit isn't any better then I'll figure out how to modify the one I have, or see if someone can 3D Print one that has more room. Does BR do one offs? I've been avoiding the whole kit, but this tiny trigger guard is frustrating. The Stormrider has more room and may end up getting swapped to 177 if I can't do something better.
I'm getting 0.844 from the middle of the trigger blade to the front of the trigger guard on the Chaser stock. The Buck-Rail stock measures 0.955. The inside height is the same on both.
I suppose that's a bit more clearance, but I think I'll email BR and see if he can do one with a bit more room. Might not be possible with the big mounting screw right in front of the guard.
How big do you think it needs to be?
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So far I love the bottle Bandito! I'm getting 35-40 shots at full power with the Altaros reg and plenum spacer using the tiny 9ci Tippmann bottle. The whole rig weighs 5 lb 1.5 Oz, or 4 Oz less than my synthetic stock Stormrider, or 8oz less than my Stormrider with the wood stock mounted. The current setup with Chaser rifle barrel is also a few inches shorter than a Stormrider.
I have a question for those who have the BR AR kit. Does the AR grip have more room in the trigger guard?
I can barely get my finger in the original with cloth gloves, much less anything insulated. If the BR kit isn't any better then I'll figure out how to modify the one I have, or see if someone can 3D Print one that has more room. Does BR do one offs? I've been avoiding the whole kit, but this tiny trigger guard is frustrating. The Stormrider has more room and may end up getting swapped to 177 if I can't do something better.
I'm getting 0.844 from the middle of the trigger blade to the front of the trigger guard on the Chaser stock. The Buck-Rail stock measures 0.955. The inside height is the same on both.
I suppose that's a bit more clearance, but I think I'll email BR and see if he can do one with a bit more room. Might not be possible with the big mounting screw right in front of the guard.
How big do you think it needs to be?
Same size as the Stormrider would work, which lets me fit my thickest gloves. With a tape measure I was able to clumsily measure out 1 3/8" of space, could be more or less, hard to say without calipers.
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I use these mittens when i need a toasty trigger finger.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81gOGQ4SaLL._AC_UX569_.jpg)
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I use these mittens when i need a toasty trigger finger.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81gOGQ4SaLL._AC_UX569_.jpg)
I was thinking about those as well. For now I've just been going with a cloth glove on the right hand and a real glove on the left. Would probably be warmer than my winter military gloves and more practical. My forefinger and thumb on my right hand are usually numb when I get home.
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DJ, did you know the Chaser trigger guard assembly pops right out? I had no idea until I was messing with my extra one a few minutes ago.
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DJ, did you know the Chaser trigger guard assembly pops right out? I had no idea until I was messing with my extra one a few minutes ago.
I did, but that's what makes the safety work and the sear pins stay in place. I bet someone could 3D print a roomier guard, but I'm not that person.
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DJ, did you know the Chaser trigger guard assembly pops right out? I had no idea until I was messing with my extra one a few minutes ago.
I did, but that's what makes the safety work and the sear pins stay in place. I bet someone could 3D print a roomier guard, but I'm not that person.
I was thinking it would make a new 3d printed one a lot easier.
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the buld is looking nice DJ
i got a .stp file for the bandit last week but it has no trigger guard just a whole different lower
it should be doable to design a guard on fusion or freecad if somebody has the skills and is interested just say
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the buld is looking nice DJ
i got a .stp file for the bandit last week but it has no trigger guard just a whole different lower
it should be doable to design a guard on fusion or freecad if somebody has the skills and is interested just say
Post a pic of the Bandit file, I'm curious. I'm not sold on spending $150-ish for the BR kit to possibly have the same issue, but I could do like James said and just get flip top mittens. However, I do like the BR kit and I basically talk myself out of buying it every day since I just spent about the same amount of money to do the bottle build and snag a 177 Stormrider barrel.
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This is my opinion and I'm a pretty big guy so that's also a factor. I like my Buck-Railed Bandit but the Chaser grip and buttstock with the ATI cheek riser fits me so much better. I'd probably consider trading my Buck-Rail setup for another Chaser grip and buttstock.
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This is my opinion and I'm a pretty big guy so that's also a factor. I like my Buck-Railed Bandit but the Chaser grip and buttstock with the ATI cheek riser fits me so much better. I'd probably consider trading my Buck-Rail setup for another Chaser grip and buttstock.
As much as I'd like to take you up on the offer, I'd like to keep my original furniture even if I do get the BR stuff.
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Been looking at them tiny trigger guards, only thing I can think of is cut them off, then make a new one to mount with the front screw, out of some bar stock AL or brass ???
https://www.amazon.com/Pieces-ALUMINUM-T6511-12-25-Stock/dp/B01F80WAFO/ref=sr_1_4? (https://www.amazon.com/Pieces-ALUMINUM-T6511-12-25-Stock/dp/B01F80WAFO/ref=sr_1_4?)
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Been looking at them tiny trigger guards, only thing I can think of is cut them off, then make a new one to mount with the front screw, out of some bar stock AL or brass ???
https://www.amazon.com/Pieces-ALUMINUM-T6511-12-25-Stock/dp/B01F80WAFO/ref=sr_1_4? (https://www.amazon.com/Pieces-ALUMINUM-T6511-12-25-Stock/dp/B01F80WAFO/ref=sr_1_4?)
I feel like the trigger guard could be as long as needed if there's a hole in the bottom to get the screw through to the final mounting hole. Like how some guns have a hole in the bottom of the guard to adjust the trigger. I actually really like the factory furniture, except for the bit of flex where the buttstock connects. For now I just ordered some nice hand made wool mittens with flip covers to get around the cramped trigger guard. I'm also tempted to buy the BR kit and resell if I don't like it.
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If you like the Chaser stock as much as I do, I would try to mod the trigger guard. The biggest issue with the Buck-Rail stock is having to mount your scope or red dot higher. I'm a bit fanatical about having my scope as close to the bore as I can get it. I have a box full of different size mounts and scope rings that I've bought and replaced because I wanted something just a little lower.
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If you like the Chaser stock as much as I do, I would try to mod the trigger guard. The biggest issue with the Buck-Rail stock is having to mount your scope or red dot higher. I'm a bit fanatical about having my scope as close to the bore as I can get it. I have a box full of different size mounts and scope rings that I've bought and replaced because I wanted something just a little lower.
Agreed, I love the "Feyachi" micro red dot on my Bandito. I'm using the open style BR red dot on my Stormrider since it has a taller comb. I do have an SKS style cheek riser for my Bandit, but the micro red dot works without it, which is nice since I can't find it. A slightly lower red dot would be great, but not really possible without spending some serious coin.
Eventually I want to upgrade to something like this: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804806744253.html? (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804806744253.html?)
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If you like the Chaser stock as much as I do, I would try to mod the trigger guard. The biggest issue with the Buck-Rail stock is having to mount your scope or red dot higher. I'm a bit fanatical about having my scope as close to the bore as I can get it. I have a box full of different size mounts and scope rings that I've bought and replaced because I wanted something just a little lower.
Agreed, I love the "Feyachi" micro red dot on my Bandito. I'm using the open style BR red dot on my Stormrider since it has a taller comb. I do have an SKS style cheek riser for my Bandit, but the micro red dot works without it, which is nice since I can't find it. A slightly lower red dot would be great, but not really possible without spending some serious coin.
Eventually I want to upgrade to something like this: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804806744253.html? (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804806744253.html?)
I like that. Does it record video?
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If you like the Chaser stock as much as I do, I would try to mod the trigger guard. The biggest issue with the Buck-Rail stock is having to mount your scope or red dot higher. I'm a bit fanatical about having my scope as close to the bore as I can get it. I have a box full of different size mounts and scope rings that I've bought and replaced because I wanted something just a little lower.
Agreed, I love the "Feyachi" micro red dot on my Bandito. I'm using the open style BR red dot on my Stormrider since it has a taller comb. I do have an SKS style cheek riser for my Bandit, but the micro red dot works without it, which is nice since I can't find it. A slightly lower red dot would be great, but not really possible without spending some serious coin.
Eventually I want to upgrade to something like this: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804806744253.html? (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804806744253.html?)
I like that. Does it record video?
Supposedly yes. I really like the form factor and I could use it with my Eagle Claw for coyote night hunting. Might be able to use it for snowshoe hares, but I think it's illegal to use NV or flashlights for anything buy coyote.
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If you like the Chaser stock as much as I do, I would try to mod the trigger guard. The biggest issue with the Buck-Rail stock is having to mount your scope or red dot higher. I'm a bit fanatical about having my scope as close to the bore as I can get it. I have a box full of different size mounts and scope rings that I've bought and replaced because I wanted something just a little lower.
Agreed, I love the "Feyachi" micro red dot on my Bandito. I'm using the open style BR red dot on my Stormrider since it has a taller comb. I do have an SKS style cheek riser for my Bandit, but the micro red dot works without it, which is nice since I can't find it. A slightly lower red dot would be great, but not really possible without spending some serious coin.
Eventually I want to upgrade to something like this: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804806744253.html? (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804806744253.html?)
I like that. Does it record video?
Supposedly yes. I really like the form factor and I could use it with my Eagle Claw for coyote night hunting. Might be able to use it for snowshoe hares, but I think it's illegal to use NV or flashlights for anything buy coyote.
I'd just love to have something to record shots without having a camera hanging off my scope. I just can't justify $500 or more to do it though.
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BR trigger guard measurements
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the buld is looking nice DJ
i got a .stp file for the bandit last week but it has no trigger guard just a whole different lower
it should be doable to design a guard on fusion or freecad if somebody has the skills and is interested just say
Post a pic of the Bandit file, I'm curious. I'm not sold on spending $150-ish for the BR kit to possibly have the same issue, but I could do like James said and just get flip top mittens. However, I do like the BR kit and I basically talk myself out of buying it every day since I just spent about the same amount of money to do the bottle build and snag a 177 Stormrider barrel.
here it is:
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the buld is looking nice DJ
i got a .stp file for the bandit last week but it has no trigger guard just a whole different lower
it should be doable to design a guard on fusion or freecad if somebody has the skills and is interested just say
Post a pic of the Bandit file, I'm curious. I'm not sold on spending $150-ish for the BR kit to possibly have the same issue, but I could do like James said and just get flip top mittens. However, I do like the BR kit and I basically talk myself out of buying it every day since I just spent about the same amount of money to do the bottle build and snag a 177 Stormrider barrel.
here it is:
Edit: Now I see, it's just a digital file of the action. I know almost nothing about 3d printing and CAD.
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Edit: Now I see, it's just a digital file of the action. I know almost nothing about 3d printing and CAD.
me neither, i like playing on tinkercad, it kinda works but just noticed there's ~1mm or so of difference to mine on the trigger guard screw hole on the tube so i'll need to mix things
this model was done by superposing the action/grip and a square box, subtracting the former from the later, then placing another box and subtracting again for the trigger blade space, what takes time is taking measurements aligning everything etc etc
pic of the abomination i'm working on:
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There's definitely room around the trigger! I wish I could find the thread, but someone on GTA converted a chaser/bandit into a wood stocked bullpup. I'll keep searching, but that would basically be perfection. I suppose a Stoeger Bullshark would basically be the same thing, but no bottle on that.
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The Stoeger Xm1 rifle might be, but the Bullshark has a much larger diameter pressure tube.
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The Stoeger Xm1 rifle might be, but the Bullshark has a much larger diameter pressure tube.
Oh, it's a P15, for some reason I thought they made a bullpup PR900.
This guy offers some cool stuff: https://splund.wixsite.com/mysite/cp2 (https://splund.wixsite.com/mysite/cp2)
But UK only. The Bullpup is more of a semi-pup, but still a huge reduction in length.
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The Stoeger Xm1 rifle might be, but the Bullshark has a much larger diameter pressure tube.
Oh, it's a P15, for some reason I thought they made a bullpup PR900.
This guy offers some cool stuff: https://splund.wixsite.com/mysite/cp2 (https://splund.wixsite.com/mysite/cp2)
But UK only. The Bullpup is more of a semi-pup, but still a huge reduction in length.
That's a really cool stock. I follow a guy from South Africa on YouTube that makes an adjustable cheek piece like that. I was going to order one but shipping was nuts.
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The Stoeger Xm1 rifle might be, but the Bullshark has a much larger diameter pressure tube.
Oh, it's a P15, for some reason I thought they made a bullpup PR900.
This guy offers some cool stuff: https://splund.wixsite.com/mysite/cp2 (https://splund.wixsite.com/mysite/cp2)
But UK only. The Bullpup is more of a semi-pup, but still a huge reduction in length.
That's a really cool stock. I follow a guy from South Africa on YouTube that makes an adjustable cheek piece like that. I was going to order one but shipping was nuts.
I sent a message to the seller asking if they were interested in selling me the files to have the stock 3d printed. Hopefully he is open to the idea.
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I feel like the JSB 10.03 is the perfect varmint ammo up to 20-ish lb game. Might even work well enough for larger raccoons with a well placed shot if you are shooting them over 950 FPS. Mine expanded up to .285" on a red squirrel at 850 FPS. I can't wait for the bottle reg and long barrel to get here and see what expansion looks like at high power, but just for testing. I like the small holes in squirrels made at 850 FPS, but it will be nice to have the option to tune up for larger game in other seasons.
I moved over to this tread because I felt like I might be getting the other one off track. All of my SPA .177s seem to like the 10.3s no matter what velocity they run. I'm shooting them from 500 fps up to almost 1000 with good accuracy.
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I feel like the JSB 10.03 is the perfect varmint ammo up to 20-ish lb game. Might even work well enough for larger raccoons with a well placed shot if you are shooting them over 950 FPS. Mine expanded up to .285" on a red squirrel at 850 FPS. I can't wait for the bottle reg and long barrel to get here and see what expansion looks like at high power, but just for testing. I like the small holes in squirrels made at 850 FPS, but it will be nice to have the option to tune up for larger game in other seasons.
I moved over to this tread because I felt like I might be getting the other one off track. All of my SPA .177s seem to like the 10.3s no matter what velocity they run. I'm shooting them from 500 fps up to almost 1000 with good accuracy.
Good idea, this is a better place.
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The Stoeger Xm1 rifle might be, but the Bullshark has a much larger diameter pressure tube.
Oh, it's a P15, for some reason I thought they made a bullpup PR900.
This guy offers some cool stuff: https://splund.wixsite.com/mysite/cp2 (https://splund.wixsite.com/mysite/cp2)
But UK only. The Bullpup is more of a semi-pup, but still a huge reduction in length.
That's a really cool stock. I follow a guy from South Africa on YouTube that makes an adjustable cheek piece like that. I was going to order one but shipping was nuts.
I sent a message to the seller asking if they were interested in selling me the files to have the stock 3d printed. Hopefully he is open to the idea.
if it's bob pattenten or something like that he won't share the files
prototype 2 is up, gonna print it now
it's slightly bigger than stock at the base and tapers up, added a safety block
a snug fit thanks to the step file, made the action sit tighter on the first model than the stock guard
that has more to do with the designer's job rather than my cad skills of course xD
tinkercad is pretty limited but for functional non shiny parts it's ok
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V2 looks much more functional. Are you going to make a hand guard/shroud?
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been thinking about it
i do modify things i find cool rather than making from scratch and people have made bandit handguards
maybe on the next model as this one has a front piece already
the next one I'm putting together will be more m4 style too
the shroud is a good idea and could help barrel stability as a carbine bc the bandit has no barrel band, need to find a tube for the shroud first
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been thinking about it
i do modify things i find cool rather than making from scratch and people have made bandit handguards
maybe on the next model as this one has a front piece already
the next one I'm putting together will be more m4 style too
the shroud is a good idea and could help barrel stability as a carbine bc the bandit has no barrel band, need to find a tube for the shroud first
A shroud, better bolt lock, and good iron sights would elevate this platform to at least mid tier.
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the shroud inserts should be simple idk about the air reflex part, i think it would need a more elaborate design to work on the tube size required
as for the guard i could try making one on tinkercad later, i do have a model for the original bandit grip, is the chaser and bandit pistol grip a 1:1 swap?
also the little prominence that blocks the safety pin might be tricky I've not made it work yet though my tube/trigger assembly is not 100% aligned
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the shroud inserts should be simple idk about the air reflex part, i think it would need a more elaborate design to work on the tube size required
as for the guard i could try making one on tinkercad later, i do have a model for the original bandit grip, is the chaser and bandit pistol grip a 1:1 swap?
also the little prominence that blocks the safety pin might be tricky I've not made it work yet though my tube/trigger assembly is not 100% aligned
The bandit/airbug grip and the CP2/Chaser grip are direct swaps.
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ahh look what got here today, barrel orings 9mmOD *1.5mm just a smidge thicker than stock, the leak seems to be gone on the .25 now need to test it above 100bar
did not increase loading resistance with pellets at least
James said he likes these green orings
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ahh look what got here today, barrel orings 9mmOD *1.5mm just a smidge thicker than stock, the leak seems to be gone on the .25 now need to test it above 100bar
did not increase loading resistance with pellets at least
James said he likes these green orings
Nice! Maybe I'll get my. 25 cal barrels cleaned up and build a nice pistol.
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I declared today a snow day and tuned the Bandito and put a wood stock on the Stormrider
The Bandito is slinging JSB 10.03 KO slugs at 925 FPS. I swapped the Chaser Rifle barrel for a Stormrider barrel which gave me a bump from 850 to 900 FPS with an Altaros reg set to 2100 psi and using a small piece of PVC pipe for some extra plenum. Then I installed the bottle reg and managed to get the velocity up to 925 FPS at 2000 PSI. I played with the reg for a while before settling at 2k. I'm expecting at least 32 shots at full pressure, but the snow started really coming down so I'll find out for sure later. I was trying to squeeze out 20 FPE with the 10.03's, but I'll settle for 19.
The Stormrider is slinging Crosman 14.3 at 675 FPS. Not sure how many shots, but probably 40-ish. I did have a CF tube barrel tensioner, but the wood stock moves the barrel band forward so I'll have to shorten it.
The two guns are within a few ounces of each other in weight as pictured, with the Bandito coming in at 5 lbs 10.5 Oz and the Stormrider at 5 lbs 7.7 Oz. I am thinking about getting a longer PVC spacer for the internal reg and removing the bottle reg to make the rig a bit lighter. The ATI cheek rest weighs 4.2 Oz by itself and I took it off since it's not really necessary. I'm curious if the BR AR kit saves any weight. Does anyone make a 9ci CF tank? I may also order another pair of CF tubes so both guns can have tensioned barrels and also still have one if I want to put the synthetic stock back on the 'Rider.
The Bandito is front heavy while the Stormrider carries the weight in the rear with a Beech stock. If I swap the uppers and tuned Stormrider to the same muzzle energy as the Bandito it would be only able to get ten shots per 200b fill.
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I’ll re-weigh my PP800r tomorrow but with the full BR kit and a Hawke 2-7x32 it is just under 6 lbs as I remember. The BR kit can vary based on the buttstock you use. I use VISM stocks with adjustable cheek risers so they are a little heavier but the weight is against the shoulder.
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how long is the plenum spacer? I'm considering making a PLA spacer with proper threads in the future
rn am printing another iteration of the guard to get the safety working
i remember you going about the bandit's trigger being too light mine was too..
somehow after a pin falling out and putting it back seems like the little spring moved below the sear and now it feels right, like a real trigger not the butter light spongy thing from before
edit: on the following link there's a trigger cap that prevents pins from falling out and allows the safety to work without a trigger guard
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5709456 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5709456)
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how long is the plenum spacer? I'm considering making a PLA spacer with proper threads in the future
rn am printing another iteration of the guard to get the safety working
i remember you going about the bandit's trigger being too light mine was too..
somehow after a pin falling out and putting it back seems like the little spring moved below the sear and now it feels right, like a real trigger not the butter light spongy thing from before
edit: on the following link there's a trigger cap that prevents pins from falling out and allows the safety to work without a trigger guard
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5709456 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5709456)
The trigger is weird, there's only a small area of the screw movement that actually does anything. It took me a bit to get it just right. I used glue to keep the sear pins in place. I'll measure the spacer today, if I remember. I also wrecked an OEM Stormrider manometer block turning it into a plenum spacer. Will get a pic of that today. After I clear snow this morning I'll be shooting and then going for a walk.
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I broke down and ordered 1000 10.3s from Baker today. Hopefully that will last me until Trenier gets them back.
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I broke down and ordered 1000 10.3s from Baker today. Hopefully that will last me until Trenier gets them back.
Worth it. I'm nailing wine corks from a kneeling position at 20 yards with a shifting sea breeze. I can barely see them! I only miss the ones that fall over onto their side. That's about as far as I'll take a shot on a red squirrel without a scope or rest. Usually I'm limited by the bush, but I've made a few 30 yard shots with my Eagle Claw and a scope. I'm trying to hit the corks at the same distance with the Stormrider shooting CPHP at 675 FPS, but I only get them half the time.
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I broke down and ordered 1000 10.3s from Baker today. Hopefully that will last me until Trenier gets them back.
Worth it. I'm nailing wine corks from a kneeling position at 20 yards with a shifting sea breeze. I can barely see them! I only miss the ones that fall over onto their side. That's about as far as I'll take a shot on a red squirrel without a scope or rest. Usually I'm limited by the bush, but I've made a few 30 yard shots with my Eagle Claw and a scope. I'm trying to hit the corks at the same distance with the Stormrider shooting CPHP at 675 FPS, but I only get them half the time.
Try Crosman 10.5s. My Stormrider likes them a lot better than CPHPs.
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I broke down and ordered 1000 10.3s from Baker today. Hopefully that will last me until Trenier gets them back.
Worth it. I'm nailing wine corks from a kneeling position at 20 yards with a shifting sea breeze. I can barely see them! I only miss the ones that fall over onto their side. That's about as far as I'll take a shot on a red squirrel without a scope or rest. Usually I'm limited by the bush, but I've made a few 30 yard shots with my Eagle Claw and a scope. I'm trying to hit the corks at the same distance with the Stormrider shooting CPHP at 675 FPS, but I only get them half the time.
Try Crosman 10.5s. My Stormrider likes them a lot better than CPHPs.
My Stormrider is a 22, but I do have pellets I can shoot that don't throw flyers, I just like shooting CPHP because it's less than $0.02/trigger pull. I tried all the cheapest pellets on PA, plus some RWS Super Domes I got on Amazon and found that it really likes CPHP, minus the random flyer. It's been a while, so I might try another pellet shootout. The whole purpose of the Stormrider is for cheap plinking, the Bandito Carbine is for small game, the 25 cal (75 FPE) Eagle Claw for medium game, and the 457 Challenger for large game.
The Stormrider is much more enjoyable tuned at 14ish FPE for 40+ shots per fill compared to 25-27 FPE for 12 shots.
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I agree with you 100%. I like my .177 a lot more tuned for mid power. The regulated shot count is great for plinking an even some light hunting. I really want a .22 myself. All these new carbines popping up keep distracting me though. Have you tried the cheap Daisy/Winchester/Gamo HPs? They are shooting great for me. CPHPs are just too hard for my tastes. I think accuracy and consistency would be better if crosman softened the alloy a little
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I agree with you 100%. I like my .177 a lot more tuned for mid power. The regulated shot count is great for plinking an even some light hunting. I really want a .22 myself. All these new carbines popping up keep distracting me though. Have you tried the cheap Daisy/Winchester/Gamo HPs? They are shooting great for me. CPHPs are just too hard for my tastes. I think accuracy and consistency would be better if crosman softened the alloy a little
I have not tried those yet. Next time I'm low on 22 pellets I'll try them. So far it likes most H&N pellets, most surprising was the accuracy with spiked pellets up to 30 yards. I try to keep it under $0.04/shot if at all possible for plinking.
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I weighed my PP800r today. It has a Stormrider barrel, full Buckrail kit and a Hawke 2-7x32 scope. It weighs 5 pounds.
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I weighed my PP800r today. It has a Stormrider barrel, full Buckrail kit and a Hawke 2-7x32 scope. It weighs 5 pounds.
I was thinking that your rig is really heavy until I realized your scope is nearly a pound by itself. I'm thinking the minimalist stock would help cut the weight down. Do you think the Mlok rail is heavier than the pic trirail? It's actually pretty beefy looking in your pic compared to the product photos online. You are definitely making me want to buy the kit even more now!
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I think the M-lock feels lighter by just a smidge. It’s basically hollow and I can flex it if I squeeze hard enough. I have the tri-rail on my Chaser and is definitely stiffer. The old style stock tubes were definitely lighter but not as strong as the new ones with the steel insert. The moderator is also from Buckrail and it adds a few ounces so if you don’t care about noise you could save a few ounces there.
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I think the M-lock feels lighter by just a smidge. It’s basically hollow and I can flex it if I squeeze hard enough. I have the tri-rail on my Chaser and is definitely stiffer. The old style stock tubes were definitely lighter but not as strong as the new ones with the steel insert. The moderator is also from Buckrail and it adds a few ounces so if you don’t care about noise you could save a few ounces there.
which one supports the barrel better?
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This is a long rambling post. I'll bold the significant parts.
The first photo shows my various plenum options compared to the Altaros reg. Photo two is showing the difference between the Stormrider valve cap (from an unregulated version) and the Bandit cap (which now seems to be the standard since the 'Rider is reg'ed). Photo three is my super rough bored out Stormrider manometer block.
The PVC pipe plenum is from a Lane Regulator kit. I had a second one somewhere but lost it, along with my .22 cal SST. The aluminum plenum is from a Benjamin Disco Huma regulator kit. I was using it in place of the manometer block on my ventilated Stormrider tube, but that's way more plenum than is really necessary. It was also nearly impossible to seal against the thin walled Altaros reg plenum. I was constantly fighting leaks on this. I bought a ventless tube from Hector Medina and now I'm just using the factory Stormrider valve cap and Altaros reg. This is netting me 48+ shots before falling off the reg around 100b, but I think there's still a good number of shots left at that point. Muzzle Energy is around 14.5 FPE. I saw a peak of 27 FPE with some extra hammer weight/spring shim, the massive plenum, and the reg set to just below max setpoint, 150b. However, that was only good for 12 shots , and now the Bottle Bandito has filled the role for small game hunting.
Using the PVC spacer and Altaros reg in the Bandit tube I was capable of reaching 900-ish FPS using the Stormrider barrel, and about 915-ish using the mangled manometer block. I could not get the fill cap or bottle block to seat with the PVC and manometer block in the tube. I think a PVC section the same size as the manometer block could net me the full 925 FPS I'm seeing with no internal reg and just the bottle reg. That would allow me to go with double regs, which is probably unnecessary, but cool.
A better option might be to eliminate the adjustable bottle reg and reduce the weight and shift the balance closer to center. That being said, even with the bottle reg the balance is pretty close to center. I can easily balance the Bottle Bandito with just a finger or two around the end of chaser grip thing. Even though it's a touch heavier than the Stormrider with that weight further forward I can actually keep it on target off hand a little easier
The only combination I have not yet tried is Stormrider barrel without any regulation, but I don't expect it to get above the 925 FPS I'm seeing with the bottle reg. As far as I know the porting is all factory, so maybe there's some gains to be had there, but I think the efficiency will be quite poor with even more flow. Maybe something like a PEEK/PEI/best space age material poppet might be a better approach to making more power. I have some spare valve bodies that don't seal anymore that I am willing to part with for experimentation. Maybe bore matched porting with a space age poppet could get me to the 20+ FPE I'm really after.
I actually stole the Tippmann manometer off of the Paintball reg and installed it on my adjustable bottle reg (along with a slightly higher rated burst disc). It along with the tank pin valve manometer are reading within 50-ish PSI (as far as I can tell).
Eventually I'd like to get another Bandit pistol to use with my 9" .25 cal barrel. I also have a 16" barrel, but both have really nasty muzzles and basically no crown. Unfortunately I have no means to fix this myself, but eventually I'll figure out how to get them fixed. If I get a 177 bandit pistol then I'll have long and short barrels in every caliber, which would be neat. I really enjoyed the power and shot count of my .25 cal Bandit pistol build, but the accuracy was terrible beyond 30-ish feet. What makes me want to get the barrels fixed and do another pistol build is the fantastic performance with the NOE wadcutter mold, even with the terrible barrel. If not for the bad barrels, I might not have even done the bottle 177 long barrel build in the first place. The .25 Cal Bandit pistolwith 9" barrel was getting 18 good consistent 12-ish FPE shots per 220b fill on a Bandit tube with an Altaros reg set to 100b and Chaser hammer spring. With some TP restrictions it could have basically been a Canadian spec build. I am pretty sure I also had the taller Stormrider valve cap installed, but I'm not 100% sure.
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I think the M-lock feels lighter by just a smidge. It’s basically hollow and I can flex it if I squeeze hard enough. I have the tri-rail on my Chaser and is definitely stiffer. The old style stock tubes were definitely lighter but not as strong as the new ones with the steel insert. The moderator is also from Buckrail and it adds a few ounces so if you don’t care about noise you could save a few ounces there.
which one supports the barrel better?
They do not appear to be significantly different in terms of barrel support. I'm really tempted to get some more CF tube and go full floated and tensioned barrel. Maybe even put an o-ring at each end for a bit of squish like they do with factory shrouds.
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Barrel support is solid with both. I don’t feel any difference trying to move the barrel around
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I caved and ordered a BR kit with folding stock and M-Lok rail last night. I also ordered several different CF tubes and will try and make a really robust tensioned barrel system. I'm tired of the "floating" barrel band rotating about the air tube and spoiling my zero.
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I caved and ordered a BR kit with folding stock and M-Lok rail last night. I also ordered several different CF tubes and will try and make a really robust tensioned barrel system. I'm tired of the "floating" barrel band rotating about the air tube and spoiling my zero.
I dumped all my plastic barrel bands that aren't fixed in place.
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I caved and ordered a BR kit with folding stock and M-Lok rail last night. I also ordered several different CF tubes and will try and make a really robust tensioned barrel system. I'm tired of the "floating" barrel band rotating about the air tube and spoiling my zero.
I dumped all my plastic barrel bands that aren't fixed in place.
My idea is to drill a hole where the red circle is in the picture, and then sandwich a 2mm CF rod between the rail and grip, which should keep the rail from rotating, especially with CF tube under tension. I could also just drill holes in the mating faces of the rail and grip and drop the 2mm rod in the holes. Maybe even do both! Either way, the rail can still come off to remove the grip and it won't rotate since it is still just a massive floating barrel band at the end of the day. I'm ordering some various o-rings to try and keep the barrel centered in the CF Tube. It worked for SPA to center the barrel in the receiver, why won't it work at the muzzle to center the CF tube? If this all works, I might take the barrel to a machinist to have proper grooves cut in the barrel. There's just 3.6mm of clearance between the barrel and air tube, so I don't think there's enough room for a proper shroud. I'm going to be pushing the limits with an attempt to put an 18mm OD sleeve over a 16mm OD CF sleeve. I'm not sure if I should glue the tubes together or not. I have a lot of this covered in my other thread about CF tubes in the workshop.
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I haven't had any issues with my short .25 barrel shifting. I've been thinking about putting my longer .177 Chaser barrel on the Bandit just to see how much power it will make though. Your theory seems solid on this, so I'll be following.
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I haven't had any issues with my short .25 barrel shifting. I've been thinking about putting my longer .177 Chaser barrel on the Bandit just to see how much power it will make though. Your theory seems solid on this, so I'll be following.
When you put a long barrel on there, it's easy to get enough leverage to make a barrel band rotate, even the aluminum one included with the Chaser rifle kit. I have a set screw in the top of mine and it can still move without much force. This doesn't happen with the Stormrider since the band is locked in place by the stock. After I figure out a CF tube setup I like I'll probably figure out a lightweight shim to put between the barrel and bottle with a worm gear band around the barrel and bottle to keep everything locked down. An idea I stole from Bob Sterne in his thread with the dual bottle benchrest gun.