GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => 3D printing and files => Topic started by: WhatUPSbox? on January 30, 2023, 09:58:57 PM
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Living in a warm part of the country, I've been pretty casual about the fume management approach. Most of the year it has been open the window, close the door and come back when it is done. I want to improve this so I can print a wider range of filaments and not cool the house down in the winter.
There is a bunch of information out there, here is a good overview example.
https://all3dp.com/2/3d-printer-filter-air-filter-3d-printer-hepa-filter/ (https://all3dp.com/2/3d-printer-filter-air-filter-3d-printer-hepa-filter/)
In my case I could vent the room (e.g. a bathroom fan in the ceiling), or build enclosure(s) and either vent them to the outside or filter (HEPA and possibly carbon). Here is an interesting discussion on HEPA effectiveness (note it is a filter vendor).
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/can-hepa-filters-capture-nanoparticles/ (https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/can-hepa-filters-capture-nanoparticles/)
So, I'm interested what others are doing.
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I bought one of these.
https://www.amazon.com/Broan-BCSD130SS-Glacier-Stainless-30-Inch/dp/B071S9N865/ref=sr_1_22?crid=3Q1V4IAQXDTAM&keywords=broan%2Bhood&qid=1675130578&s=appliances&sprefix=broan%2Bhood%2Cappliances%2C117&sr=1-22&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Broan-BCSD130SS-Glacier-Stainless-30-Inch/dp/B071S9N865/ref=sr_1_22?crid=3Q1V4IAQXDTAM&keywords=broan%2Bhood&qid=1675130578&s=appliances&sprefix=broan%2Bhood%2Cappliances%2C117&sr=1-22&th=1)
(( the black one ))
I built two side walls and a frame to support it, it stands 36-ish inches to the bottom of the hood. I vented it out through one of the glass blocks in the basement similar to how you'd vent your clothes dryer. I still have not added a set of doors to the front. It's great because the lights underneath actually add enough heat to combat any troublesome temperature changes. The resin I have been using has a strong clove-ish smell and I hate it. With the fan running top speed, it's actually very quiet. I leave the fan on for a few says after printing and the smell almost absent. I am sure there are more elegant solutions, but I got a deal on the hood and the rest was not really an issue. I did end up running some Romex and a box with four outlets on the wall near it. I will get it cleaned up a bit and post a few pics.
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a much needed thread
and forget about VOCs, nanoplastics are major endocrine disruptors today
also transgenerational meaning they accumulate for real
my current recirculation filter is the airmanagerv2 on thingiverse slightly modified
to my fit a h13 electrolux filter available everywhere and this blower
https://m.pt.aliexpress.com/item/1005003092105754.html?
I'm not sure the blower kind fan is best for static pressure? i see most projects usings normal fans... anyway this serves a dual purpose on my enclosure in that it helps keeping the filament very dry(humidity 90%+ here year around)
but on the other hand it blows so much air and the vacuum through the filter is so weak in comparison that the exhaust robs the air flow of the filter
the electronics is redundant as I'm controlling it 100% through klipper now
you can attach a flexible pvc vent tube to outside creating negative pressure but then you'll only have one pass through the filter which is still good for 95-98% cleaning
or use a h12 filter which has bigger pores or a hepa sheet not folded like these made for aspirators
or maybe vent outside and then back inside with a second filter at the reentry to slow the airflow
just brainstorming
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I printed another version in one piece
attached in this post if you want to remix it
here's also an easy way to fit your hepa/vacuum/fan devices to other projects
get a diagram with measurements like this one from the Ali listing
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Ha92eafbf0e664b3bb01c51998751b2e40.jpg)
convert it to svg:
https://image.online-convert.com/convert-to-svg (https://image.online-convert.com/convert-to-svg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pioFLkESD8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pioFLkESD8)
open it on tinkercad
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i was looking into the venturi effect for creating a vacuum on chemical distillations and thought it might be cool applying it to a filter
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I was looking at the NASA paper referenced in the second link I posted.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20170005166/downloads/20170005166.pdf (https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20170005166/downloads/20170005166.pdf)
In figure 4 (copied below) they show a strong dependence on the filter efficiency on air speed (slower is better) for the sub-micron particles. I'm thinking large area filter with a weak fan. Probably need enough flow to keep the flow coming out of the enclosure.
In my situation, I'm leaning towards an enclosure vented to the outside and a free standing DIY HEPA filter/fan combo just for extra precaution.
Baco, in another thread you mentioned you had a HEPA filter gunked up with PLA. I would be interested in seeing a picture of the surface.
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interesing find
the venturi effect when applied to filters also lowers volume flow could be a win-win
offtopic- changed from cura to prusaslicer yesterday it seems much better
filter is damp cause i soaked it in hot water
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old pic of my enclosure
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5396801 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5396801)
later i added some thick furry weather stripping to the rack around doors and magnet locks
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Well, that filter looks pretty gunked up. Any chance that that is room dust? How much printing does that cover?
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I don't have a 3d printer, but reading this thread has lead to to investigate 3d printing fumes. You really should not operate one without an exhaust hood or some really good ventilation.
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I don't have a 3d printer, but reading this thread has lead to to investigate 3d printing fumes. You really should not operate one without an exhaust hood or some really good ventilation.
ppl are really stupid these days courtesy of years of programming and genetic engineering
i do buy pla from a supplier that claims using "biopolymers" from natural sources etc etc but not sure it's trustful
Well, that filter looks pretty gunked up. Any chance that that is room dust? How much printing does that cover?
could be dust from phenolic plywood?
it doesn't get much outside dust
klipper reports 189hs of printing
about 4 rolls of filament
I've used this filter on another small build with a 50x50 fan maybe an extra roll or so
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this is very complex but i like how he made it easy to change exhaust/recirculation proportions
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2394452 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2394452)
i like simple things so am considering this in line fan with pvc for connecting the 2 printers and venting outside
https://www.printables.com/model/276004-3d-printer-exhaust-fan-duct (https://www.printables.com/model/276004-3d-printer-exhaust-fan-duct)
then run recirculation separate with hepa only (i have chinese carbon filters but sth sth acid wash metals corrosion don't wanna risk)
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I like that filter housing from thingiverse. The problem I struggle with in the filter approach is: It helps but how to judge if it is good enough, especially some of the carbon filters.
I'm still working on the vent as primary.
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I like that filter housing from thingiverse. The problem I struggle with in the filter approach is: It helps but how to judge if it is good enough, especially some of the carbon filters.
I'm still working on the vent as primary.
yeah on top of that you need a specific non acid washed carbon otherwise your printer will rust, i was thinking those painters mask filters for VOCs could be useful but they're too small
so venting is the way, got a 2" concrete drill bit today to vent a tube through the wall
the wall is solid laid bricks so I'm probably screwed
also ordered a 96cfm 120mm AC fan
edit: assuming i don't need to control the flow with 2 enclosures but 96cfm could be too high it'll cycle the air 8x per minute on the big enclosure or 5x with both connected
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exhaust done
it reacts to UV light :D
the wall was a pita to drill
also put a separate AC led bar to offload the power supply on this sv03 which is badly dimensioned and connected both to a switch on the wall
i was not sure how to direct the airflow inside so i just put a tube with holes drilled, i might change it later
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Since I posed the question, this is what I am using for now. The room happens to have an unused fireplace. So I took an old bathroom vent fan, mounted it on a board that fills the fireplace opening, and sealed around it with packing foam. I may add an enclosure or hood at some point in the future.
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Heck I must be dead cause I never noticed petg or abs smelling while printing.
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would an anion generator help with nanoplastics?
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Well, the problem with the fumes/nanoplastics, at the hobby level, we don't have a good way of evaluating the effectiveness of any filtering scheme. 3D printing takes an industrial process (melting plastics) and brings it into the home without the industrial support equipment.
I'm sticking with just venting it for now.
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i was thinking about anions for the outside air just in case plastics escape the vented enclosure, don't wanna be breathing that @$%^
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I have been in the Plastics Industry for 25 years.
Compression Molding, Injection Molding, and Extrusion. Only the place I am at now has ever had any kind of fume collection.
Melting every kind of plastics you can imagine, 8 hours + a day, 5-7 days a week... I am talking thousand(s) pound runs across many lines / machines in a single shift
Acetyl (Celcon) are the worst but even then, I think at a hobbyist level you guys are making a Mountain out of a Mole hill. A simple fan would suffice to disperse it away.
Just don't get PVC too hot. It is exo-thermic and will generate it's own heat once it gets to a certain temp (380-400 f). Then it starts to degrade and gives off Hydrochloric gas. ;)
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Can't really disagree, but, once one has been sensitized to chemical exposure, it's amazing how low a level can bother a person. Unfortunately, I was sensitized by working on chemical vapor detection and by later exposure to radar absorbing materials. Being near RAM gave me pain around my eyes and collosal migraine like headaches. As a radar and antenna guy, this was a problem for me. Anechoic chamber testing was painful. Whatever they use in the absorber would out gas into the chamber.
I can only print indoors for maybe 30 minutes before my eyes start bothering me. Have to open all the windows in the room for longer prints. Consequently, I don't print as much as I'd like to.
For most people printing isn't a problem. But if you have been hyper sensitized either by birth or by exposure, fume control is a good idea. Honestly haven't found a solution yet that seems simple and effective enough. Printing tons of parts for a solution to minimize exposure (while increasing your exposure) seems like a wrong way to go about it, but that's just me thinking. Might be a middle ground with some easy to fab parts and a few printed ones that might get me to the right place and still minimize exposure.
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A simple fan would suffice to disperse it away.
For the nanoplastics, where would they go? I've seen recommendations to just wait some time before entering the room, but the stuff is still in there.
Not trying to push a problem onto people, but if some fans and ducting help avoid an oops later, it may be worth considering.
I've been trying to find out what the space station 3D printer filter looks like (no open windows/chimneys). For the VOC's, the station purifiers work on them. There is also a filter in the 3D printer assembly but haven't found it yet.
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some plasticizers have multigenerational toxicity like bisphenols, phtalates and that's only the ones you hear more about because they are everywhere
with the tons of studies there are i think being apparently healthy isn't an excuse, even if you had a ton of exposure that's your n=1
because like with EMF, ELFs the danger is much like a brain injury in that damage prevents you from even being aware
for example you say your bloodwork is normal etc
but how can you access the function of your endocrine receptors? that is without a biopsy..
how aware of your endocrine system you are to affirm you're really normal? most ppl aren't, many are being covertly depersonalized/disgendered/dehumanized even before puberty through the medical establishment and media
99% of people if they'd take estrogen and watch some disney movie would cry like a women and not know why that's the mind programming working on them
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I need to look into venting too. I always assumed I'd look into it when I started printing with more dangerous/exotic materials, but why put it off? I'm currently building a chimney and hearth to house a wood stove (one more step towards non-reliance on outside utilities and food sources) and I might be able to tie it in if I can find the space near it. If not, moving it into my garage and venting out would be simple through an unused doorway.
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i may not be qualified to answer this(i dont print), but i'd consider treating it similar to grow tent. those people who grow weed indoor etc... same stuff.
get a grow tent that have ventilation, the lining inside should be able to contain the heat as well as the fumes generated. then buy a fan that can be attached to the dedicated port on the growtent. then get flexible tube/pipe to exhaust that outside. last, get another fan as fresh air intake. some filter sometimes can be attached to the fan.
amazon.com/MARS-HYDRO-2-3x2-3ft-Hydroponics-Ventilation/dp/B088STYP1X/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3FYWUKRI80AYH&keywords=mars+hydro+grow+tent&qid=1697234185&sprefix=mars+hydro+grow+ten%2Caps%2C162&sr=8-6&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.ac2169a1-b668-44b9-8bd0-5ec63b24bcb5
above example of a grow tent kit and some pieces i mentioned above.
i like mars hydro brand and have 2 tents myself(5x5 and 4x8). ac infinity a great brand for fans. owned several of them too.