GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Optics, Range estimation & related subjects => Topic started by: Badduck on December 27, 2022, 06:26:44 PM
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Ok here we go,I’m on my 6th scope on my Beeman R9 22cal the last. One was a UTG bug buster 3x9x32 rated for magnum springer well it turned to &^^& after about 40 shots. I have used Vortex,Bushnell,Khonus,center point,weaver, Burris. Not a one lasted over 100 shots.What is everyone else having luck with ?
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Hawke has some good scopes and excellent warranties....so far. For your R9, you may want to try a 3-9 Hawke Air Max?
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Is your R9 particularly "buzzy" or have a relatively rough shot cycle?
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If your gun is especially hard on scopes you could try the Diana ZR (zero recoil mount.
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Use a one piece mount and a spring rated scope and you should not have any issues.
I personally have a Hammers magnum scope with a hammers one piece mount on my Ruger Air mag with thousands of trouble free shots. If you are using run of the mill two piece scope mounts in my experience is suicide. It's not if the scope will puke its when. It will also help to convert from dove tail to a pic rail.
I tried the ZR mount and it worked but at the expense of accuracy. It was finnaky and constantly needed adjustment of the nylon set screws to home reliability. The guy I got it from claims it was a Hector special.
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What Vortex failed and did you contact Vortex support? I have a 6-18x44 Crossfire 2 that's been great and Vortex support was excellent when I've contacted them.
My most trustworthy scopes are a Leupold 3-9x33EFR and a Burris Timberline 4.5-14x32, both of which have served perfectly on my R9.
I also have an Airmax 4-12x40 but it's on a gun I don't shoot much and I'm sure I'd like the smaller 2-7x32 Airmax better for an R9.
I'd like to try an Athlon Talos 3-12x40 someday because they are springer rated and should have good warranty support if needed.
The Optisan CP scopes are highly regarded in some of the British groups and might be another good option.
Good luck!
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A nice tune would probably be your best bet.
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What Vortex failed and did you contact Vortex support? I have a 6-18x44 Crossfire 2 that's been great and Vortex support was excellent when I've contacted them.
My most trustworthy scopes are a Leupold 3-9x33EFR and a Burris Timberline 4.5-14x32, both of which have served perfectly on my R9.
I also have an Airmax 4-12x40 but it's on a gun I don't shoot much and I'm sure I'd like the smaller 2-7x32 Airmax better for an R9.
I'd like to try an Athlon Talos 3-12x40 someday because they are springer rated and should have good warranty support if needed.
The Optisan CP scopes are highly regarded in some of the British groups and might be another good option.
Good luck!
I love the looks of the Mini Optisans, but they are now $100 more :P
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What Vortex failed and did you contact Vortex support? I have a 6-18x44 Crossfire 2 that's been great and Vortex support was excellent when I've contacted them.
My most trustworthy scopes are a Leupold 3-9x33EFR and a Burris Timberline 4.5-14x32, both of which have served perfectly on my R9.
I also have an Airmax 4-12x40 but it's on a gun I don't shoot much and I'm sure I'd like the smaller 2-7x32 Airmax better for an R9.
I'd like to try an Athlon Talos 3-12x40 someday because they are springer rated and should have good warranty support if needed.
The Optisan CP scopes are highly regarded in some of the British groups and might be another good option.
Good luck!
I love the looks of the Mini Optisans, but they are now $100 more :P
At that price, the Meopta Optika5 would a better choice, albeit I find the 2-10x42’s bell too big.
Wish the had a 32 mm version ;D
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I have at least four Hawke scopes in service on springers (including some that can be tough on cheap scopes, like the HW90, Hatsan 125X Sniper .25, and Diana 34) and they have been rock solid. I love their Airmax series and think they represent an excellent value in a high-quality scope.
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Are you having to adjust reticle way up or down or left or right? Can’t imagine that gun killing that many scope that quickly. Not really known as a scope eater.
DanD I have the Talos 3-12 x 40 on my .22 HW95. Nice little scope for the price and really good match for that gun. Close to 1,000 shots and no issues with it.
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With my .177 R9 and .177 HW95 I've had good results with Hawke scopes and Hawke has been real good for customer service if needed.
These scopes have worked well except the 4-12x50 Vantage needed to be be replaced due to a shifting poi. The "Hawke Tech Guy" told me that they don't recommend the Vantage for springers over 12fpe power level. The side focus 4-16x44 compact AirMax and the AO focus 4-12x50 AirMax have been good for me.
I'm currently using a Hawke Airmax 30 SF compact with optional sun shade, an UTG dovetail to Weaver (Picatinny) adapter and a set of Vector Optics narrow mount..........
(https://i.imgur.com/hDZWgq8.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/0ZE0gn0.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/Kzc3el7.png) (https://i.imgur.com/0N3Sq6C.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/grILVO8.png)
For the AitMax with AO and 1" tube I still use a UTG adapter, however I use Weaver Quad Lock rings and they've worked really well for me.........
(https://i.imgur.com/xOpF9SN.png) (https://i.imgur.com/8QpXhuD.jpg)
I'm wondering if your .22 R9 is having "sealing issues" to wreck scopes so quickly. Years ago I used a relatively cheap 4-16x40 Center Point scope (less than $80) and it held up well till I got rid of it scope due to the 40mm objective.
I hope you solve your "optics issues" because it certainly is annoying to have a wandering point of impact or internal parts getting scrambled. A couple decades ago the 4-16x42mm Weaver V16 was highly rated so I bought one. At That time I was shooting about 1000 shots per month and my V16 didn't last two months before there was "rattling inside". It was repaired by Weaver under warranty and after receiving the repaired scope the reticle literally "shot loose" so it would flop around in the tube. LOL....that V16 was "land filled" out of disgust!
Anywhoo.......keep in mind that piston guns are hard of optics and when I used to shoot roughly 10,000 shots per year my scopes would have warranty work every couple years.
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You probably have barrel droop and you're running your scopes elevation maxed out or closed to it. Many of the newer Hw95 family guns (which is your R9) have been coming through with barrel droop. This will cause you to run the scopes elevation maxed out or near it. Scopes lose zero and rattle them selves to death when run near maxed out.
Secondly springers are notoriously tough on scopes. I was pulling my hair out with my Hw95 (without droop) which is the same as your R9. Accuracy was terrible and it broke four "Springer rated" UTG scopes. Convinced the accuracy was bad because of the gun, I sent it back to AoA. They tested it over two weeks and couldn't find anything wrong with it and recommended using a better scope. I put a Nikon EFR on it and the gun became a complete joy. Unfortunately Nikons are no longer made. The Hawke Airmax IMO is the most durable springer scope made and the cheaper Hawke Vantage still very good.
Neither of those Hawkes or anything else for that matter will hold zero or live long if you have too much droop. Fix the droop and get a Hawke scope and you'll be fine.
Happy New Year All!
Ron
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A nice tune would probably be your best bet.
That's what I'm thinking. The one non-variable in this equation is the gun. Is there an app to measure recoil impulse? (I'll have to look.) That would offer some clues.
Cheers,
J~
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This reply from Bayman is "spot on" "you're running your scopes elevation maxed out or closed to it. "
I failed to consider the possibility that the scope might not be "optically centered" so there isn't enough "erector spring tension" to maintain alignment with the recoil of a piston gun. Here are a couple sketches of a scope erector tube support. Obviously, if there "weak spring tension" the erector tube will thrash around changing the poi but such thrashing can also damage the internals of the scope.......
(https://i.imgur.com/J2CpYnH.png) (https://i.imgur.com/QoOkkrB.png) (https://i.imgur.com/HkhNfH7.png)
The first thing I do/have done with a new scope is to first check the optical centering of a new scope straight from the box using the "mirror method". A bit to my surprise every new Hawke scope I bought came straight from the box "optically centered" with the reticle reflection in the mirror matching the reticle. If the reflection of the reticle in the mirror doesn't match line up with the reticle the turrets are adjusted till it does. Here are a couple examples of a scope reticle not being "optically centered".........
(https://i.imgur.com/qKpxDBd.png) (https://i.imgur.com/0rKxtoM.png)......
With the scope optically centered and mounted on the gun I take a few "test shots" upstairs at 18 yards to get a handle on barrel droop/snoop because even the scope mounting and pellet selection will affect the poi. If the point of impact isn't within an inch or so of the point of aim the barrel is bent to put the point of impact close (within 1" or less) to the point of aim at 30 yards, then the fine zeroing is done via the scope turrets. To bend the barrel I made up a "barrel tweaker" from a 2x4 stud, large eye bolt, flat washer, nut and some padding to protect the barrel finish. As a side note, a bend in a barrel that moved the poi 4" in only 18 yards couldn't even be seen with the naked eye so such bending is very small. I also sized and used the "barrel tweaker" in such a way that all bending pressure is directly on the barrel and not on the junction between the barrel pivot block and barrel. Here are a few pics of "barrel tweaking"...........
(https://i.imgur.com/a3A9W5a.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/M9YMCt1.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/rsK0loX.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/nppgPMC.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/hCUutJR.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/9M6gXwN.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/mfVQ9Q4.jpg)
Here is a target I shot at upstairs at 18 yards showing a few "barrel tweaking steps" before going to my back yard practice lane.........
(https://i.imgur.com/yXJd6eC.jpg)
If there is no desire to mess with "barrel tweaking" there are also adjustable scope mounts that can be used to align the point of aim with the point of impact. Decades ago I initially tried a couple adjustable scope mounts to compensate for barrel droop like this............
(https://i.imgur.com/xPWw0MP.png)
I personally found the setup to be too tedious with the fiddly small set screws only to have it "shoot loose" after a couple months. I also tried a RWS Lock Down Mount with built in "droop compensation" but wasn't satisfied with that solution either...........
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/rws-lock-down-1-pc-mount-w-1-rings-11mm-dovetail-barrel-droop?a=2406 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/rws-lock-down-1-pc-mount-w-1-rings-11mm-dovetail-barrel-droop?a=2406)
(https://i.imgur.com/m2ZBI0C.png)
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You probably have barrel droop and you're running your scopes elevation maxed out or closed to it. Many of the newer Hw95 family guns (which is your R9) have been coming through with barrel droop. This will cause you to run the scopes elevation maxed out or near it. Scopes lose zero and rattle them selves to death when run near maxed out.
Secondly springers are notoriously tough on scopes. I was pulling my hair out with my Hw95 (without droop) which is the same as your R9. Accuracy was terrible and it broke four "Springer rated" UTG scopes. Convinced the accuracy was bad because of the gun, I sent it back to AoA. They tested it over two weeks and couldn't find anything wrong with it and recommended using a better scope. I put a Nikon EFR on it and the gun became a complete joy. Unfortunately Nikons are no longer made. The Hawke Airmax IMO is the most durable springer scope made and the cheaper Hawke Vantage still very good.
Neither of those Hawkes or anything else for that matter will hold zero or live long if you have too much droop. Fix the droop and get a Hawke scope and you'll be fine.
Happy New Year All!
Ron
I think you absolutely correct concerning barrel droop. It can kill scopes.
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Try centerpoint
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Moved to the Optics Gate.
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UTG bug buster is a 1" scope. Last I read, UTG only warrantied their "tru strength" (30 mm tube scopes) on springers. Any of the 3-12 or 4-16 30mm tubed models in a RWS lock down mount should last just fine. Loctite everything and torque to spec, don't ham fist the wrenches. 35 inch lbs on the base, and 15 inch lbs on the rings.
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UTG bug buster is a 1" scope. Last I read, UTG only warrantied their "tru strength" (30 mm tube scopes) on springers. Any of the 3-12 or 4-16 30mm tubed models in a RWS lock down mount should last just fine. Loctite everything and torque to spec, don't ham fist the wrenches. 35 inch lbs on the base, and 15 inch lbs on the rings.
15 in/lbs on the rings can damage the scope tube depending on the rings used. I personally had issues with BKL "double strappers" because mounted on my .177 R9 the scope tube slipped using 10 in/lbs of top screw but increasing the screw torque to 15 in/lbs dented the 1" tubes of a Center Point and a Vortex Diamondback scope.........
(https://i.imgur.com/hOb80aL.png) (https://i.imgur.com/LamRSe1.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/8u7bshQ.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/vk6Vlyx.jpg)