GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: OahuDave on November 02, 2011, 09:58:59 PM
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Aloha All,
Looking for recommendations for a sub-$300 entry level pistol that I can use for 10m shooting. Prefer pump, so as not to have to keep co2 on hand. Also teaching my 8 year old and he has had a little trouble with the rifles so something he could possibly shoot as well. We only have indoor area to shoot so 10m is the max distance we can shoot in.
Mahalo in advance for all recommendations!
Dave
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Well, if you really want to go under the 300 dollar mark, :D and have a decent shooting pump pistol, the Crosman 1377 is the ticket imo. It's accurate compared to other inexpensive pistols, and according to lots of the guys here, can be modified in many ways. It seems to be a very popular buy around here. I have one, and although I don't shoot it much, I love it.
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Whatever you get, be sure your boy's hands can accomodate the grip geometry. Sometimes you can put cut down, reduced stocks on pistols but you still have the index finger reach to consider. There are some fine shooting pump pistols in your price range but several (like the Beeman P series) tend to be large, partly due to mimicking guns like the 1911. Even though you say CO2 is out, you might want to take a look at the Crosman pistols based on their CO2 platform. They can be had from the custom shop with nice triggers and you can compete with them, yourself, if you have a mind to. The 1377 is a very good pistol but will require trigger work to make it competitive. They aren't too light, either. Another consideration for young arms. What you want to concentrate on is a good trigger and sights. Best to start them off right.
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Well, if you really want to go under the 300 dollar mark, :D and have a decent shooting pump pistol, the Crosman 1377 is the ticket imo. It's accurate compared to other inexpensive pistols, and according to lots of the guys here, can be modified in many ways. It seems to be a very popular buy around here. I have one, and although I don't shoot it much, I love it.
Well...I would rather not be limited, but...I need to just get a pistol that will work enough to have some fun with and still be accurate enough to not be frustrating. I just want to be able to hit targets sufficiently and once I decide to stick with this I will look for better equipment. I tend to go overboard from the start on all my hobbies and I burn out quickly, so just want to get in without spending too much right now.
I will check out the 1377.
Mahalo,
Dave
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Whatever you get, be sure your boy's hands can accomodate the grip geometry. Sometimes you can put cut down, reduced stocks on pistols but you still have the index finger reach to consider. There are some fine shooting pump pistols in your price range but several (like the Beeman P series) tend to be large, partly due to mimicking guns like the 1911. Even though you say CO2 is out, you might want to take a look at the Crosman pistols based on their CO2 platform. They can be had from the custom shop with nice triggers and you can compete with them, yourself, if you have a mind to. The 1377 is a very good pistol but will require trigger work to make it competitive. They aren't too light, either. Another consideration for young arms. What you want to concentrate on is a good trigger and sights. Best to start them off right.
Good point on my son being able to handle it. I know when I was 8 I was shooting rifles without too much trouble, but he really cannot handle them that well. At least not unsupported, and he cannot pump or cock them either. That is fine for now since I am really teaching him safety and some basics about shooting now.
I will check out the CO2 from Crosman and see what they have. I just don't like the idea of buying cartridge after cartridge. I remember going through those like crazy when I was young and I always ran out when I was enjoying myself.
I really do not like the replicate guns like the 1911 look-a-likes. Those do not appeal to me at all. I want something that looks like a pellet pistol personally. There was a Gamo (I believe that's the name) that just look like a target pistol and was about $200.
Was looking at this for pump:
(http://content.screencast.com/users/OahuDave/folders/Jing/media/f7abde70-c959-4f26-a198-a87f61952eb8/2011-11-02_1643.png)
Maybe this for CO2:
(http://content.screencast.com/users/OahuDave/folders/Jing/media/95ab8cb0-0015-49ae-8ccd-708997dcd7c1/2011-11-02_1645.png)
I have always just shot the junky guns from the sporting good stores. I would love to check out a really nice pistol/rifle some day, but there are no air gun clubs here in Hawaii that I have found. I really want to get my son comfortable enough with these and some higher powered rifles before introducing .22 rimfire. I have a nice 10/22 rifle waiting for him and a S&W 622 pistol as well that I love shooting.
Mahalo,
Dave
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This one gets good reviews:
Diana RWS LP8
(http://content.screencast.com/users/OahuDave/folders/Jing/media/d20df6f0-49a1-41dc-9200-3dd231bebe61/2011-11-02_1659.png)
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The more I research the more I realize I need a trainer gun for my son and a better one for me. So I guess I am looking for recommendations on a trainer as well. Thanks again for all the information and any suggestions.
Dave
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Two nice entry level air pistols are the Daisy Avanti 717, @ $159.99, and the Daisy Avanti 747, @ $199.95, single pump, pneumatics at Pyramyd Air.
Brett
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I suggest the Daisy 747 or the cheaper 717. The difference is the 747 had an adjustable trigger and a better barrel.
I have a 747. The only "problem" that I have w the Daisy is the grip is a slippery plastic. With the muzzle heavy balance, the pistol wants to rotate and slip in my sweaty hand. I fixed that problem w a small square of plastic non-skid from Ace Hardware put on the backstrap of the grip.
I would stay away from a spring pistol like the LP8. The recoil and vibration of a spring pistol will make it harder to shoot accurately than a SSP or CO2 pistol which has ZERO recoil and vibration.
IMHO the Crossman 2300T, is set up as a left-handed pistol. With the bolt on the right side, if you are right-handed you have to reach over the pistol w the left hand or swap hands to load. That is an awkward motion. But it is an interesting pistol that I think I will get, one of these days.
Where are you in Hawaii? There are a bunch of airgun guys there, but most are rifle shooters. I do know that a 10m AP group used to meet at the McKinley High School range. I shot with them once. When I go over, I sometimes bring my 10m AP with me, but it can be such a hassle w TSA.
I don't know of a decent AP with a small grip.
I have not handled one, but the pix of the Crossman 2300T looks like it might fit him.
BTW for your son, take a look at the following ARs that I think will fit him.
- Daisy 953, SSP, 12" length of pull (LoP), but a bit heavy, better shot off a rest unless he is strong enough to hold it. This is my favorite casual rifle.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-powerline-953-targetpro?m=585 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-powerline-953-targetpro?m=585)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-powerline-953-targetpro-target-sights?m=2610 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-powerline-953-targetpro-target-sights?m=2610)
- IZH 60/61, spring powered, easily adjustable stock for LoP, small grip and short trigger reach, plus it "looks cool." It has a REALLY NICE trigger. Min LoP is about 12".
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/izh-60-air-rifle?m=75 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/izh-60-air-rifle?m=75)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/izh-61-multi-shot-air-rifle?m=76 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/izh-61-multi-shot-air-rifle?m=76)
BTW, the links to Pyramid Air is only to show the gun, I have no idea if their prices are competitive or not.
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Aloha, Dave.
I would go for the Crosman 1377.
It's very light. Perfect for a 8 year old.
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Two nice entry level air pistols are the Daisy Avanti 717, @ $159.99, and the Daisy Avanti 747, @ $199.95, single pump, pneumatics at Pyramyd Air.
Mahalo Brett. I was checking those out as well. It is SO hard to know what is good online. I figure I am going to take all the advice here, do as much Googling as I can and then just choose one and enjoy it as much as I can.
Dave
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I suggest the Daisy 747 or the cheaper 717. The difference is the 747 had an adjustable trigger and a better barrel.
I have a 747. The only "problem" that I have w the Daisy is the grip is a slippery plastic. With the muzzle heavy balance, the pistol wants to rotate and slip in my sweaty hand. I fixed that problem w a small square of plastic non-skid from Ace Hardware put on the backstrap of the grip.
Good info on the gun. That looks like a definite contendor, the 747. That and the Gamo are to my liking so far.
I would stay away from a spring pistol like the LP8. The recoil and vibration of a spring pistol will make it harder to shoot accurately than a SSP or CO2 pistol which has ZERO recoil and vibration.
Ah, ok. I had no idea about that. I am not really liking the Nitro rifle, has a kick that makes accuracy harder. I need to remmeber the differences between these guns and the compression mechanisms. Thanks.
Where are you in Hawaii? There are a bunch of airgun guys there, but most are rifle shooters. I do know that a 10m AP group used to meet at the McKinley High School range. I shot with them once. When I go over, I sometimes bring my 10m AP with me, but it can be such a hassle w TSA.
I am in Central Oahu in Mililani. I would really like to find some people to shoot with here. The rifles I picked up are junk, but still fun to shoot with. I would like to check out some of the nice rifles/pistols so I know what to look forward to in the future. As much as I used to like to shoot rimfire I will get more use out of AGs and would like to get nicer ones in the future.
BTW for your son, take a look at the following ARs that I think will fit him.
- Daisy 953, SSP, 12" length of pull (LoP), but a bit heavy, better shot off a rest unless he is strong enough to hold it. This is my favorite casual rifle.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-powerline-953-targetpro?m=585 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-powerline-953-targetpro?m=585)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-powerline-953-targetpro-target-sights?m=2610 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-powerline-953-targetpro-target-sights?m=2610)
- IZH 60/61, spring powered, easily adjustable stock for LoP, small grip and short trigger reach, plus it "looks cool." It has a REALLY NICE trigger. Min LoP is about 12".
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/izh-60-air-rifle?m=75 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/izh-60-air-rifle?m=75)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/izh-61-multi-shot-air-rifle?m=76 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/izh-61-multi-shot-air-rifle?m=76)
BTW, the links to Pyramid Air is only to show the gun, I have no idea if their prices are competitive or not.
Many thanks. Will check those out now.
Mahalo for all the info,
Dave
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Aloha, Dave.
I would go for the Crosman 1377.
It's very light. Perfect for a 8 year old.
I like that it is cheap too for him to at least get used to. I am wondering if a CO2 for him might be better as he is not very strong. So many choices!!! :)
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Adding this to the shopping cart now probably for both my son and I to shoot. Wish I had known the difference between spring and SSP before I bought the Nitro. Oh well.
(http://content.screencast.com/users/OahuDave/folders/Jing/media/354f6845-687c-4927-aeee-e728ee37999b/2011-11-02_1912.png)
EDIT: Ouch! Maybe not. They want over $100 to ship it here to Hawaii. That is the MAJOR drawback here. :(
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Aloha, Dave.
I would go for the Crosman 1377.
It's very light. Perfect for a 8 year old.
I like that it is cheap too for him to at least get used to. I am wondering if a CO2 for him might be better as he is not very strong. So many choices!!! :)
They are very easy to pump. ;)
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I ended up order a 1377, 2240 and a 2300S. I figure those will be fun for my son and I to shoot and will last us a long time. After researching the CO2 option that really sounded like a good way to go. No pumping, but still will have the 1377 to use too.
Thanks again for all the tips and info! I will post up once we get it and shoot with it. We look forward to shooting in some of the weekly matches.
Dave
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Yeah shipping to HI is a bummer.
In the past UPS only did blue (air), not the cheaper brown (despite that they could put a container on Matson and ship it over).
There are a few freight forwarders will consolidate and freight forward to HI. You have the stuff shipped to them on the west coast, they fill a container and ship the container, then in HI either you go pick it up or they deliver locally (can't remember the details).
Good luck in the shooting w your son.
Get a BOX of co2 cartridges. Nothing worse than running out and all the local stores are OUT :-(
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Worth considering: (the first couple pistols you might only get used for around $300 if you're extremely lucky. The rest can either be found new or used under $300, esp. the models discontinued in the last few years.) FYI if you see an IZH 46 around $300... someone'll have probably already seen it before ya and made an offer to buy it.
FAS 604
(http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/FAS/FAS%20AP604%20Match.gif)
http://home.comcast.net/~fc60net/FAS/FAS_604_Rebuild.pdf (http://home.comcast.net/~fc60net/FAS/FAS_604_Rebuild.pdf)
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.muzzle.de%2FN3%2FDruckluft%2FFAS_AP_604%2Ffas_ap_604.html&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=Translate (http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.muzzle.de%2FN3%2FDruckluft%2FFAS_AP_604%2Ffas_ap_604.html&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=Translate)
IZH 46 Match Pistol
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/IZH-46M-Match-Pistol_IZH46M_pistol_lg.jpg)
Beeman P11 / P1 / Weihrauch 45 (SPRINGERS)
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/Beeman-P11-Match_BN-2390_pistol_lg.jpg)(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/Beeman-P1-Iron-Sights_BN-22300_pistol_lg.jpg)
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/Weihrauch-HW-45-LP_HW-403320_pistol_lg.jpg)
http://my.tbaytel.net/coopers/HW45Review/review.html (http://my.tbaytel.net/coopers/HW45Review/review.html)
Weihrauch 75
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/Weihrauch_HW_75.jpg)
----------------------------------------Under this line $40-$300-----------------------------
Webley Nemesis
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/WENE1917-Z40001.jpg)
Gamo AF10 / PR 15 / PR 45 / Compact
(http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/image/gamo-pistols/air-pistol-gamo-af10.jpg)(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSX0QlklaZNo5FKkHzFpzWQhuuzQJyAm2R8kd2qM1f2fnFoNimL8w)
(http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/image/gamo-pistols/air-pistol-pr45-gamo.jpg)(http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/image/gamo-pistols/air-pistol-compact-co2.jpg)
Daisy 717/747
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/Daisy-Avanti-717_DY-717_lg.jpg)(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/Daisy-Avanti-747_Avanti-747_lg.jpg)
Beeman P3/ Weihrauch HW 40 / Beeman P17 / HDS9 / WMN Mod. S 9
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/Beeman-P3-BN-2360-air-pistol.jpg)(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/hw40pca.jpg)
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/Beeman-P17_BN-2004_pistol_lg.jpg)(http://www.hdag-airrifle.com/imageRepository/29727bbf-d954-4782-9ff4-056ce2e1ab20.jpg)
(http://www.muzzle.de/N7/Druckluft/Marksman_2004_Deluxe/muzzle_WMN_S9.jpg)
http://my.tbaytel.net/coopers/HW40Review/review.html (http://my.tbaytel.net/coopers/HW40Review/review.html)
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Multipumpers:
Webley Alecto/ Webley Alecto Ultra
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/Webley-Alectol-177cal_WEB-Z1550_pistol_lg.jpg)(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/Webley-Alecto-ULTRA_WebWP177-Ultra_pistol_lg.jpg)
Crosman Benjamin HB17/ nickle plated HB17 / HB22
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/Benjamin-HB17_lg.jpg)(http://www.muzzle.de/N3/Druckluft/Benjamin_Sheridan_H17/muzzle_b_s_h17_re.jpg)
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/Benjamin-HB22-22cal_Benjamin-HB22_pistol_lg.jpg)
Crosman 1377/1377B/1322
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/Crosman-Pneumatic-1377-Pump_CR1377C_pistol_lg.jpg)(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/Crosman-1377-Black_CR1377-PC77B_pistol_lg.jpg)
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You could also try Walmart, they do have free shipping to store... if you do in-store pickup.
Course it might be different in hawaii, or maybe not?
They've got some decent basic airguns, once you ignore the junk.
Walmart #2126-Mililani
95-550 Lanikuhana Ave
Mililani, HI 96789
(808) 623-6744
http://www.walmart.com/cp/Pellet-Guns/1080384?showAll=true (http://www.walmart.com/cp/Pellet-Guns/1080384?showAll=true)
oddly walmarts site isn't letting me select this for purchase:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Beeman-Deluxe-Air-Pistol/17217811 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Beeman-Deluxe-Air-Pistol/17217811)
But if i change my store location to continental U.S. (from hawaii) it does let me buy it at $39.99... weird, cause only a few weeks ago you could order it. Seems like its in-store only, but in limited stores.
Beeman P17 (SSP) (http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/02/67/85/02/0002678502004_180X180.jpg)
But while set in above store, site did let me 'order' these:
Crosman 2100 (.177, multipump) (http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/02/84/78/21/0002847821000_180X180.jpg) Crosman 1077 (CO2)(http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/02/84/78/12/0002847812131_180X180.jpg)
Ruger Explorer (SPRINGER) (http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/72/33/64/44/0072336444020_180X180.jpg) Crosman Raven (SPRINGER)(http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/02/84/78/13/0002847813478_180X180.jpg)
Blue Streak (.20,multipump)(http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/01/14/82/00/0001148200094_180X180.jpg) Benji 392 (.22,multipump) (http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/01/14/82/00/0001148200070_180X180.jpg)
I'm a big fan of the Beeman p17 ssp. Its cheap to buy. Cheap to fix. If only it didn't go thru pellets so quickly.
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Thank you very much for all that info! I bought the Explorer and 2100 and Benjamin Nitro GP at the Mart a few weeks ago. I just picked what I thought would be ok to teach my son some basics. They are nothing thrilling, but work ok for now. Now that he knows safety and all I want to try the pistols so he can start working on pistol basics and accuracy. Unfortunately the 2240 and 2300S are backordered, UGH! So only the 1377, stock and Tasco red dot are on the way. Oh well. Most sites I check say the 2300S is not out until November 20th or so. Is it a new gun? Or just so darn popular? I am off island next week anyways so at least those two won't be sitting here taunting me from afar. :)
Thanks again for the info! I could almost swear I saw the 1377 at the Mart when I got the rifles, but was not interested in pistols so I did not look closely.
So hard to finally make a decision. I liked so much about a lot of the other non-Crosman pistols too, but there are some awesome forums out there so I figured I would get all Crosman and mod from there.
Thanks!
Dave
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All three of those guns are highly modifiable. and from what it sounds like, the work is easy once you buy the parts. New breech bolt and valve and trigger kit are in the mail to me for my 2240. crazy to thing a $50 gun can use $200 in upgrades, and can go higher the further down the rabbit hole you go.
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All three of those guns are highly modifiable. and from what it sounds like, the work is easy once you buy the parts. New breech bolt and valve and trigger kit are in the mail to me for my 2240. crazy to thing a $50 gun can use $200 in upgrades, and can go higher the further down the rabbit hole you go.
Yeah no doubt. I saw the 1377 many times and liked it, but was like..."It's a $50 pistol" how good can it be. Now I know. :) I am going to have my son use the 1377 and 2240 for now. See what he likes. Then once he is comfortable start the mods.
Off to start construction on my indoor backstop. We shot at some army guys yesterday but the little pellet trap just does not cut it. Need room for cans or other items that are more interesting than targets. I spent hours cutting cans apart when I was a kid. Heck I feel like a kid again every time I pump up the gun now. :) Good times.
Dave
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Dang! Way to late to keep this gentleman from making some serious mistakes! But for those you who may land here later with the same question, read this!
The 1377 is NOT even close to a 10 meter accurate pistol, nor suitable for an 8 year old! It is at BEST a plinking pistol for older teens or adults!! Shame on all you bozos who recommended it!
And while some did mention fairly good alternatives such as the 717, 747, and Gamo compact, these are IMHO too expensive for a kid to use to determine if he likes 10 m shooting and wants to continue.
Also mentioned were some pricy dogs, such as the 2300 T and 2300 S. I have owned both. Neither is even close to 10 M target quality. The trigger is not up to it, nor is the accuracy! Do your self a favor and stay away from them unless you just love owning pricy dogs!
What every one missed and what would have been the BEST recommendation is a Beeman P17!! This gun is as CLOSE to 10 M accuracy as you will get this side of $150 or even more mark. I have a MATCH grade Diana 6 M with adjustable wood target grips. Off a bench rest it will slightly out shoot the P17 for groups. BUT, OFFHAND, the P17 in my hands shoots rings around the 6M!!! And WAY shoots rings around all the 1377's I have owned, and I have owned multiple 1377's and P17's! I no longer own any 1377's! I still own one P17, and it is my favorite "go to gun" for 10 m practice or plinking!
And a leap above the P17 price wise, but excellent choice is the Beeman P3! A way upscale P17!
Till I get up into the stratosphere with the Pardini's, FWB, and Moroni target pistols, I simply cannot do better than the P17 for a starter or a 747 as an intermediate. For an 8 year old, if he likes the P17 and does well with it, I would then probably move up to the 747. The 747 is a great gun for adults also and is a far better choice than any of the other guns mentioned. I have shot em all. I would recommend only 3. The P17 as a starter, and the P3 or 747 as intermediates. And the 747 gets my approval, only because the P3 is just a higher quality P17 capable of only a bit more accuracy. The 747 has the size, heft, and feel of a "true target pistol". IF you can find a 777 with true adjustable wood target grips, jump on it!!!
There you go! I have owned over 7 P17's, keep selling them as I keep thinking I can do better with something more pricy, and keep coming back to them after selling the more pricy stuff!!
I have a feeling most people recommend what they have, and have not shot most of the alternatives. Folks, that is simply not fair to the readers!!!
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Avanti 717/747 and some RB grips. Mine's almost 30 years old and still extremely accurate. More accurate than my 1322, 1377, and at least equal to my 2300S.
(edited 1/9/17 to remove broken links)
If my budget was $300 I'd save a bit longer and get a used IZH-46M. Mine is vastly superior to my guns mentioned above.
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He said 10M was the MAX distance he could shoot from, not that he HAD to shoot from that distance. My own advice would be to start his son out at 5M.
At that distance any of the guns mentioned will shoot better than his 8 year old son can. This is NOT disparaging the kid, I'd say EXACTLY the same thing for any adult beginner pistol shooter. While maybe not Olympic quality I got a dime sized group at 5m(3 pumps/shot), and at 10 pumps reliably hit a tin can MUCH further (don't know the distance but the can looked to be about an inch high.) with my 1377 with stock trigger. This while consistently MISSING said can with a scoped air rifle. Nothing wrong with the rifle but I did a lot of shooting with the 1377 and it showed.
I read most P17's need some sort of rebuild right out of the box. If you are good at that go for it, it's a $40 dollar gun, nothing to lose. Me, I want something that works out of the box, and my 1377 did that, as did my browning buckmark. The buckmark is light weight and very easy to cock, it also shoots well at 5M. I can't speak for 10M, because where I am I can't shoot from that distance, but everything you bought should work great for 5M.
I had a gamo compact; I thought those got discontinued? It got lost during a move. It had a better trigger than what I'm shooting now but I'm not crying over it. I don't think I've maxed out the potential of the Buckmark or the 1377 yet.