GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: TimmyMac1 on November 01, 2011, 01:59:54 PM
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You should never leave transfer adapters attached to tanks when in transit.
Damage can occur to fill adapter and/or hose gauge etc.
Suitable dust covers/thread protectors for tank valves are appropriate.
When charging a PCP rifle or pistol the gun should be cocked, breech
open, & unloaded. Before hooking up an air yoke to a tank squirt some air
out the valve, then put the yoke on the tank and again squirt some air
thru the line with bleeder shut, especially if it has just been assembled.
Debris on the inlet seal is the most common cause of PCP leakage. Any
debris in the system is the kiss of death to a PCP. And it happens often enough that
it is a serious source of income for Airgunsmiths everywhere. Sorry guys.
When you do hook it up make sure the fittings are all clean and free
from burrs or galling on the threads(if any). Make sure the orings on
probes are free of cuts or haven't gotten chunked by a sharp edge.
They should be lubed with DC111, divers grease or Parker oring lube.
We always deburr these areas to avoid the problem but if you are not
careful some times you can thrash orings unintentionally.
Make sure the gun is unloaded, cocked, and breech open.
We always prepare for worst case scenario which is loaded gun & failed valve.
Hook up the gun to the charging system. Make sure the bleed screw on the
yoke and/or pump is fully tightened. Open tank valve slowly so the gauge
needle doesn't suddenly rise. When it gets to the pressure inside the
gun it will slow down and normally you hear a click as the cjheck valve unseats.
You are now filling the gun. Don't fill faster than 1 second per 100 PSI to be
sure to not overheat the air being transferred into the gun.
To avoid overheating pumps don't go too fast and be sure to rest every five
minutes so you don't overheat the pump/kill yourself.
When you get to the preferred fill pressure turn off the tank valve/stop pumping.
When you bleed the line you want to always use the bleeder on the pump
rather than the dive yoke (If dive yoke is fitted to the pump). This
discharges the water built up from the compression and must be released
at full pressure quickly for best effect. Even on systems with no water
trap the moisture will be most concentrated in the pump. On tank systems
release the air from the Air Yoke/Fill adapter. Disconnect gun from
charging system and refit all dustcovers etc.
I do not recommend the pump as a primary air source. The combination of
dry tank air and moist pump air is tolerable but strong evidence points
to a problem when the pump is the only air source. Compound that by
using large volume lines which require significantly more strokes and
you're creating a bigger problem yet.
Further exacerbating the problem is living in a relatively humid region
and being a fairly heavy user. It would be prudent to regularly clean
out the water traps of pumps and also pumps which are not fitted with
desiccant balls. Both will accumulate a sludge which you do not want
inside your prized airgun.
Probes orings should be lubed with grease to minimize friction between
orings and receptacle. Grease can be present in the reserviors and it is highly
recommended to boot. A grease lined air tube is the best method of insurance
against corrosion and debris migrating to the main seal.
It is a significant problem to assume any CO2 gun can be a PCP. This is
a very bad idea and unless all associated components are checked out to
the pressure your filling to it is a potential disaster waiting for a
victim.
Foster Female Quick Connects in High Pressure configuration are the best
available (designated 12FSS). Stainless male Fosters are most appropriate for
High Pressure (3K+) applications and using ANY Brass fittings as a Male
Foster type connection should be avoided. Males should be Stainless Steel.
mac1airgun.com
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Lots of good info there Tim. Thank you for sharing
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Tim
Hope you are getting caught up there.
Since you are in CA and all the aircraft stuff seems to be from there....by chance does your suppler of fittings stock steel AN814-10 oring boss port plugs?? Everything in MI is JIC or SAE. I want the true AN for the UNJF style threads
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Thanks Tim
Nice lesson on filling you PCP. Sometimes after filling your PCP many many times you begin to take things for granted and reading this is a good reminder that you are dealing with very high pressures and to be alert and careful.
Norm
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so whenever i pump mmy disco i need to cock the bolt and leave it open during pumping ?
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Lots of good info there
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Yes Mike you should cock the gun when you fill it. Some guns don't require it but it makes it easier
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This is confusing to me...my manual for my Marauder says specifically...uncocked... ??? ??? ???
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His filling procedure is tailored from a tube with ZERO pressure in it. You cock the hammer to take pressure off that valve so it will seal and hold air. If you ever tried to handpump an empty rifle you would understand the NEED to cock the rifle so the valve will seat and seal
If you just shot your Marauder down to say 2000 PSI the valve is seated and sealed up already...so just hook up and fill ;D
added....of course with no mag inserted as on the Marauder that would load a pellet!!!!!!
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i think i will continue just to hook up my female adatper to my male marauder, fill it up in a couple seconds and disconnect, seem s a lot simplier to me, why are you making pcp harder than it really is??
Mod edit: he is not making it harder by any means. He is simply addressing the procedure and care that should be taken. Your comments on this have been unnecessarily harsh and uncalled for.
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Mod edit: Again unnecessary rude
Commentary on a helpful post
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Mod edit
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The procedure is suited to any and all guns and is a generic type of post. I always like to be ready for the worst case scenario which is a loaded gun with no air and a failed valve. Even if it is cocked the air will push the pellet out. When Bolts are open there is no safer mode for any bolt action system. It truly is a sign of respect, proper range etiquette and inteligence whenever you see a gun with an open bolt. It is the safe way to have your gear when your not shooting it and mandatory at any range.
A gun that already has an air charge does not need to be cocked but an open bolt is always a sign someone with a brain is in charge.
I let my guns do the talking. Bronze in Worlds BR HV & USA A team HV Gold. I shot High Card (248) in the HV event.
Later
Tim
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Great advice Tim. Thanks. And you are 100% correct on the open bolt being a sure indicator of safety to anyone who may be nearby.
Richard
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I just commented as to in some situations a cocked bolt would be mandatory to allow the rifle to take a charge.
seen many posts by newer airgunners having trouble to get the rifle to fill and seal
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maustangmike
id say load a magazine, hook up your fill line , fill in a couple seconds , disconnect, then go shoot, opps if you dont have any oil.trash, or anything else in the line....
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Nipper
What you are suggesting is unsafe and can harm
Someone. I suggest you take more care when filling your own guns.
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if its on a range with other shooters i fully agree with open bolt all the time, or bolt removed, i used to shoot 22 benchrest and centerfire benchrest , i have filled my 22 marauder 100's and 100's of times in a year and just ordered a talon tuned 25 marauder i have two scba 4500 psi tanks that have 10 years left on the shelf life and also a 25,000 breathing air compressor and i have filled several thousand scba/scuba bottles and this post overall in my opinion turns a lot of people off to pcp airguns, and if you dont agree we will agree to disagree, because its not freeking rocket science.......
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Nipper I srtongly urge you to drop the sarcasm and take it for what it was intended to be; "Good advice". You can use it, or not. Your choice. No, it's not rocket science, but if done incorrectly it can be very dangerous and/or mess up one's equipment. So be nice and lets move on.
Richard
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keep in mind that even though it may not be a big deal to you, there are lots of newbie inexperienced people searching the web. they don't all necessarily have the level of experience you do. they may find this thread/post etc. and it could be taken for the gospel. always best practice to post/preach it on the safe side. if someone wants to cut corners on their own then so be it. only they can know their readiness and experience level. just a bunch of good advice to get gun to seal easily, protect seal/orings, prevent/prolong corrosion etc. it was a good post and dead on. ;D
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maustangmike
id say load a magazine, hook up your fill line , fill in a couple seconds , disconnect, then go shoot, opps if you dont have any oil.trash, or anything else in the line....
i have a disco so mag to load, but no way would i start pumping or filling my disco with it loaded and ready to shoot.. i dont even keep my pb's loaded their clips are loaded but there is never a round in the chamber. figure if i need em its easy and quick enough to chamber a round, but i will not leave a chambered and ready fire airgun or powder burner sitting there.
the guys here on the forum will not beat around the bush when they speak i take it as more then advice i take it as this is how its done end of story. why, becuase they have a lot more time with pcp's and airguns then i do and they always and i do mean always air on the side of safety when they give advice to open public like this..
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Good post Tim, an in my view your second(rather polite I might add) post hit's it on the head, it IS safety first an alway's an doing this is a true sign of a thinking shooter. Showing respect, Proper range etiquette an above all INTELIGENCE!!! The kind of shooter I enjoy having on the bench next to me so I can relax an enjoy my shooting time.
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keep in mind that even though it may not be a big deal to you, there are lots of newbie inexperienced people searching the web. they don't all necessarily have the level of experience you do. they may find this thread/post etc. and it could be taken for the gospel. always best practice to post/preach it on the safe side. if someone wants to cut corners on their own then so be it. only they can know their readiness and experience level. just a bunch of good advice to get gun to seal easily, protect seal/orings, prevent/prolong corrosion etc. it was a good post and dead on. ;D
aaak73, You've really hit the nail on the head with your comment. There are a lot of people on here with years of experience like Tim and you and Nipper. But there are also people on here who are going to be filling their PCP for the very first time and don't have a clue of the proper way to do it or what the dangers are. They know that you don't shoot the gun at anyone, but they don't know that a valve can fail (and what happens when it does) or that a quick disconnect can pop off, and they don't know that you need to bleed the line before disconnecting it, etc, etc.
That's where statements such as "it ain't rocket science" are not only inappropriate, but downright dangerous, because 3,500 psi IS downright dangerous. Sure, there are corners that can be cut from Tim's methodical process, but only if someone understands exactly what the implications of cutting those corners are. Shortcut methods, if they are presented at all, should always have a discalimer to the effect that "they work for me, but if you don't truley understand it, don't do it." think of the audience here.... don't set somebody up for an accident.
My two cents,
Lloyd
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The procedure is suited to any and all guns and is a generic type of post. I always like to be ready for the worst case scenario which is a loaded gun with no air and a failed valve. Even if it is cocked the air will push the pellet out. When Bolts are open there is no safer mode for any bolt action system. It truly is a sign of respect, proper range etiquette and inteligence whenever you see a gun with an open bolt. It is the safe way to have your gear when your not shooting it and mandatory at any range.
A gun that already has an air charge does not need to be cocked but an open bolt is always a sign someone with a brain is in charge.
I let my guns do the talking. Bronze in Worlds BR HV & USA A team HV Gold. I shot High Card (248) in the HV event.
Later
Tim
Thanks for the post Tim...pcp's are new to me and I am easily confused anyway! Seems to me the moral of the story here is to use care, follow a safe procedure and pay attention to what ya doin'
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"We always prepare for worst case scenario which is loaded gun & failed valve."
I thought that explain the why quite well....
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if its on a range with other shooters i fully agree with open bolt all the time, or bolt removed,...and this post overall in my opinion turns a lot of people off to pcp airguns, and if you dont agree we will agree to disagree, because its not freeking rocket science.......
Nipper,
Not sure if you know who I am but I do tend to know a bit about shooting and airguns. It is my life!
My experience is that if you practice safe gun handling at all times it becomes second nature and you don't have to think about where you are, just do what you always do.
I'm a third generation airgun expert and I have over 45 years on the bench and 30 years shooting competition and rangemaster/Safety officer duties.
You can trash solid advice or take it but if you have any rangemaster experience you know people who practice poor gun handling scare rangemasters and if they show up with bad habits they have a *(&^ of a time not doing them.
Case in point is what I call Video Finger. A kid that can activate a controller 15 times a second is impossble to keep off the trigger. Their subconscious knows where the trigger is and they always have two fingers on it. That si what you get when you practice what you should not do.
You may want to avoid reading my posts if that post offended you because there are lots more to come.