GTA
Target Shooting Matches, Discussion & Events => The Long Range Club => Topic started by: ER00z on November 01, 2022, 10:58:30 PM
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I haven't been able to shoot NUAH for a bit for a multitude of reasons, it's been tough Lol. Truth is I haven't done much of any shooting lately. Some reason I thought October was the end of the 100y matches and was disappointed I hadn't been able to get out more, even to practice. Luckily November has match I'm itching to get into if things align.
I've attempted longer range shooting with a quite few airguns, my preferred gun still being the Cayden but the Air Arms S510 is right with it, just nicer/smoother overall (almost too nice). Trying.177 slugs from the BT65 at distance just never panned out like I had hoped although they did ok at 100 yards, around 80 seemed to be the practical limit from my gun with me shooting. For grins I dialed a few guns way down in power/velocity and still managed to do better than expected in the 80 to 105 yard range. Have yet to attempt further distance or to improve on my last division upgrade.
Still trying to decide what my next and "last" airgun will be, but always looking. Target shooting at closer ranges has lost it's allure to me for the most part and investing into a mid or big bore just for long range target is impractical at the moment (married with children, have to budget Lol). I know there are plenty of options available, eventually I'll figure something out. Just not sure of caliber and projectile type I want to go with yet, but know some will perform better than others.
So 100 yard target with airguns has ruined me. Nothing since has quite scratched that itch, the challenge of sending a small pellet downrange knowing a whisper of a breeze in any direction, not reading the wind correctly or not repeating a certain hold can destroy a perfectly good 5 shot group... But some how it's one of the most rewarding activities I've encountered ;D
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Nice piece, I hope it entices others to "scratch that itch".... 8)
Bob
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Agreed, something knocked my scope out of alignment (I think on my Marauder last week) and I haven’t been able to get back to it to sort things out but like you say, long range is a lot of fun/ challenge that I think more people would enjoy if they had the range and a coach to get them started.
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Just in case any of you are getting bored, you might like to have a look at the target shot recently by Mike Niksch with his Thomas BR rifle at 100 yards....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/25_shots_100_yards.JPG?width=undefined&height=undefined&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/25_shots_100_yards.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
This is 25 shots with .22 cal. JSB 25.4 gr. Redesigned Monsters.... If you ask me, it looks like he pulled one!.... ;D
How about some of you guys that can shoot 50/50-5X moving out to 150 or 200 yards?.... We still have had nobody qualify in NUAH at 300!.... ;)
Bob
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Been wanting to try this since last spring, but I don't have anywhere to shoot here at the house past 27 yds. We will be visiting the In-Laws in a few weeks and hope to do some shooting there. If they haven't filled the old chicken houses with hay, some of them are right at 100yds long. I might have to shoot down the side of them if full of hay.
I need to look up the rules again and print some targets to take with me. ;D I especially want to try out the new to me Prophet 2 with some slugs. Don't know if they are allowed, but will be my main interest.
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Agreed, something knocked my scope out of alignment (I think on my Marauder last week) and I haven’t been able to get back to it to sort things out but like you say, long range is a lot of fun/ challenge that I think more people would enjoy if they had the range and a coach to get them started.
I'm sure you'll get the Marauder dialed in again in short order. I also believe the biggest hurdle for most to get into long range shooting is actually having the range available. Someone to help coach would be a plus.
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I have only recently started extending my air rifle range. I've always considered 35 yards to be about it. More accurate air rifles and better ammunition now enable me to shoot accurately past fifty yards. Got a squirrel last week with my Hatsan mod 95 at a measured 56 yards. Not sure I'll ever reach 100 yards but its worth dreaming about. :o
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Slugs or pellets are fine, any caliber.... The monthly 100yd. match rules are a bit different (score down, not up), so be sure to check them both out....
Bob
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Just in case any of you are getting bored, you might like to have a look at the target shot recently by Mike Niksch with his Thomas BR rifle at 100 yards....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/25_shots_100_yards.JPG?width=undefined&height=undefined&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/25_shots_100_yards.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
This is 25 shots with .22 cal. JSB 25.4 gr. Redesigned Monsters.... If you ask me, it looks like he pulled one!.... ;D
How about some of you guys that can shoot 50/50-5X moving out to 150 or 200 yards?.... We still have had nobody qualify in NUAH at 300!.... ;)
Bob
That target is very impressive! I'd be ecstatic to have shot a group like that.
Qualifying at 300 is only 5 shots in 12"?... :o
Not sure I have anything air powered that's capable, Lol.
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To both Ken and Carter, if you get the opportunity to just shoot at 100(+) yards, it's very fun. Just don't let yourself get frustrated if things don't go great at first.
Back in late spring/early summer I received an Origin .22 that I had planned to do long range with. It had a few teething issues even getting on paper at 100y, but when it did... It did. Unfortunately I didn't stay with it to get fully dialed in and put it on the back burner for another day.
Here's about the average grouping I was getting at 105 yards with the Origin and JSB 18gr pellets. Just never got them centred on target ::) ;D
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Qualifying at 300 is only 5 shots in 12"?
Yes, as a Member.... If you want to be a Master at 300 yds. you need to shoot 5 shots in a 3" group, within a 6" circle.... Remember. no other holes in the paper.... *LOL*....
Bob
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I was thinking to try my luck at further distance. Will be taking one or two of my .22 caliber pcp's and using JSB 18.1gr pellets just to see how they do. I'm not expecting any miracles, but am curious as to the results with pellets.
Unfortunately I currently don't have access to chairgun or any ballistic programs, I'm not positive as to the drop at 200 yards from 100 yards (JSB 18gr @ ~900fps) just to get in the ballpark, but luckily I have a set of FX adjustable rings on one gun that should help with walking in my shots at distance.
Hoping for a windless morning in the coming weekend(s) to get something decent for the 100y match and maybe a few 'Hail Marry' shots at further distances. Maybe I'll get lucky, but haven't seen too much where people have had good results beyond 150-175 yards using pellets, and usually they're using fairly customised small bore airguns or big bores. As for 300 yards, I know small bore pellets can reach out that far but unsure of the accuracy, even on a seemingly windless day. Guess there's only one way to find out ;D
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Here is an online calculator that allows you to input your muzzle velocity, projectile BC, zero range, maximum target range, crosswind, etc.etc...
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_drift-5.1.cgi (http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_drift-5.1.cgi)
It is designed for powderburners, and does not have the GA drag profile, but since it is so close to the G1 at most velocities, you can at least get a rough idea by using that.... I set it up for your 18 gr. JSB Exact Heavy at 900 fps, zeroed at 100 yards, 2 mph crosswind, and here is the results out to 300 yards....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/Trajectory.jpg?width=undefined&height=undefined&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/Trajectory.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
You can get a larger image by clicking on it.... Drop at 200 yards about 8 ft. and at 300 yards about 32 ft.... I hope that helps....
Incidently, the NUAH target has a 4 MOA ring on it for 100, 150 and 200 yards, but if you want to shoot further than that, you will have to scale it up and print it on larger format paper....
Bob
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Rsterne, Thank you very much for the information. Looks like 200 yards is doable for my optic setup, but for 300 yards I might need to add a compensation rail under the rings. Not quite sure, will have to run the numbers later this evening.
I give 200 a try, not sure what to expect and if it's halfway decent maybe I'll try further. That amount of wind drift is almost funny at extended distance, I'll need... Well I'm not quite sure, Lol. Probably lots of luck :D
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Well, I got out and got sighted in, something had definitely happened almost 15 moa off vertical and several horizontal as well. I suspect someone was either putting something away for me or getting something out to look at and bump the scope harder than they thought they did. I’ve actually dropped that gun twice in the past with nothing getting out of alignment from waist level and everything was still at proper torque so to me it’s a mystery.
I just have to find some calm air now for a go at 100 yards.
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I dropped a rifle a few years ago and BENT the scope!.... It hit upside down on the objective.... Well, not being one to throw things away, I bent it back until it "looked right", put it back on the gun and it was within a few clicks!.... Still using it!.... ::)
Bob
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Had a few oops-moments myself that caused optics to lose zero. Never bent an optic yet. Good job getting that one straightened out.
I might be wrong, but had to chuckle a bit when I ran the theoretical adjustment and dope for reaching out to 300 yards with 18gr pellets for my one gun and optic setup. I'd need to add a 20MOA rail, max out the adjustable rings, shoot on 7 power... And probably still have to use a lower or even lowest hold over line and hope they get out there. Also would need to have a very constant or even zero winds also ... :o ;D
I'd better give 150 to 200 yards a try first. Depending on wind conditions I might get something that looks more like a shotgun pattern rather than a "group", LOL. But that's all part of the fun/challenge.
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Well, I got out and got sighted in, something had definitely happened almost 15 moa off vertical and several horizontal as well. I suspect someone was either putting something away for me or getting something out to look at and bump the scope harder than they thought they did. I’ve actually dropped that gun twice in the past with nothing getting out of alignment from waist level and everything was still at proper torque so to me it’s a mystery.
I just have to find some calm air now for a go at 100 yards.
Hopefully the winds settle right down for you and you get the opportunity to get out.
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When we set up NUAH, I made this larger target, that can be used up to 250 yds.... It must be printed on 11 x 17 paper.... A .pdf file is attached at the bottom....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Targets/.highres/NUAH Target 250_zpstifuxd1k.jpg?width=undefined&height=undefined&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Targets/.highres/NUAH Target 250_zpstifuxd1k.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
If you wanted to shoot at even longer ranges (up to 400 yds.), I would suggest you double the size of the standard NUAH target, and print it on 17 x 22" (or 18 x 24") paper.... If you want to DIY, you can print it like a Poster on many printers, on 4 sheets of 8.5 x 11 paper, and then tape them together on the back....
Bob
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Thanks for the pdf file and information on printing larger scale targets.
Also, Just wanted to clear up a little slip I made and just happened to notice:
Qualifying at 300 is only 5 shots in 12"?
It would be three shots of five within 12" at 300 yards to qualify as a member. Don't want to discourage anyone who might want to make an attempt and not land all five shots.
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You are correct, of course....
Bob
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Yes its really addicting. Will definitely shoot 2-300 or more. But dont have currently place to do it everyday. Have booked official 300m range couple times but weather never play along.
May have possibly make private range for 300yd. Need only cut some trees and heavy machinery ;D
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Jari, you've had very impressive results at 200 previously, not to mention the outstanding 100 yard targets you've posted. When first getting into adult airguns, I could only manage similar results to your 200 yard (meter?) results at 50 yards, and on a good day ;D
Truly impressive shooting and hope you have the time, range and weather to continue long range target.
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Jari, you've had very impressive results at 200 previously, not to mention the outstanding 100 yard targets you've posted. When first getting into adult airguns, I could only manage similar results to your 200 yard (meter?) results at 50 yards, and on a good day ;D
Truly impressive shooting and hope you have the time, range and weather to continue long range target.
Thanks. Anyone can do it if really want.
When i started this did believe is even possible have constant sub moa pcp.
Found current setup/ combination 4 weeks ago. So have not get opportunity go more than 100yd yet. And winter is coming fast.
Try find day and place before goes too cold.
My road have been far from easy. But very interesting process. Latest upgrade i desing solid backpiece to get rid of flex. Helped poi shift a bit. Now im after 0.5 moa constant grouping. Have to study slug barrel lapping next..
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I really must agree that the long range air gunning is super fun. I am sure having fun with my Akela at 100 and 150 yards. As soon as I finish putting up firewood I hope to clear another 50 yards so I can shoot 200 here anytime. I'm not doing any better than I had been at the NUAH but I'm shooting most every day a little bit and getting trigger time and walking in. It sure helps when I can open the shop door and shoot, rain or shine. Friday afternoon I opened the door to sit after laying out tile for the boss in her bathroom, and decided to shoot the kyl some. Which let to the steel at 100 and 150. Then the rain came...i realized you can dope the wind easier if you can see the wind all the way :)
I went a couple of miles south Saturday to my buddy's house and hung 8" plates at 1, 2 and 300 yards for our .22lrs. I will be cutting out 1/3 scale ipsc/idpa targets out of 1/4 plate I hope this week for the airguns at the same distances. The rifle rated 8" steel is too hard to hear the .177 pellets ring. The 1/4 steel rings real nice when hung from mechanics wire, when hung from chain it dampens the ring some.
Some rain on my range and the 150 yd plate.
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Mark, that's great shooting with the .177 Akela! Really like your range, being set up to shoot from the shop is fantastic. Sounds like your buddy's range is real fun too.
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Didn't seem like this subject warranted a new thread, but wanted to post a question for the Long Range shooters...
I was thinking to maybe acquire a .25cal for 100 yard matches. No particular model, but just tossing around the idea and I have a good amount of JSB/A.A. 25.4's from springers I've had. Plus it would be nice to have another (hopefully competitive) gun to enter the matches with. Lately I've been paying closer attention to .22cal vs .25cal at distance in various videos/reviews, especially those which stick to shooting pellets and noticed it's pretty much a toss up as far as accuracy in relatively calm conditions.
Has anyone else noticed this that have shot both calibers at distance?
...And then there's Knothead (Mark) with his .177 Akela really reaching out there ( ;) ;D) Maybe I'll setup a .177 at similar velocities and see what happens in the time being.
Still don't think I can come close to Jari, great shooting and set up there! Looks fantastic :D
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The .22 cal JSB Heavy 18.1 gr. has a BC close to the .25 cal. JSB King 25.4 gr.... If your gun has more power, you can move up to the .22 cal JSB Redesigned Monster 25.4 gr. or the .25 cal JSB King Heavy 34 gr. which both have a higher BC than their lighter cousins.... BC for the JSB Exact Series is roughly proportional to the Sectional Density.... The SD's are:
.22 cal 18.1 gr.... 0.054
.22 cal 25.4 gr.... 0.076
.25 cal 25.4 gr.... 0.058
.25 cal 34.0 gr.... 0.078
.30 cal 44.8 gr.... 0.071
.30 cal 50.2 gr.... 0.080
IMO, those are the best long range pellets you can get.... I plan to build a gun shooting the .22 cal Redesigned Monster 25.4 gr. at about 880-950 fps., depending on where the accuracy is best.... I'm going to sleeve the barrel with carbon fibre up to 30mm OD (1.18")....
Bob
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Bob, as always great information! Thank you.
Also, that gun you plan to build will be impressive for sure. 8)
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I really get a lot from this group. I’m very lucky to have the place we have, and a wife that lets me shoot like I do.
I will not touch many of your skills, and since my competition days are behind me I just have fun doing what I do and learning.
I will buy a high end gun one day and it will most likely be a 22, as Bob says those monsters are something.
I have a marauder in .25 and I may well his master with that, but it needs real glass first.
The Akela is a challenge for me, and I’m gonna take it to 200 soon. I don’t expect earth shattering accuracy, but it it rings steel with any regularity I’ll be pretty happy.
Thanks for sharing all you guys share. I’m sponging it up over here.
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Following up on my most recent post, above.... I have been checking into the new JSB Knockout slugs, and I find it interesting that they are only offering them in one weight per caliber.... 25.4 gr. in .22 cal, 34 gr. in .25 cal, and 50 gr. in .30 cal.... These are the exact same weights as they use for some of the best shooting pellets they produce.... and all are within a very narrow range of SD, between 0.076-0.080.... and BC's between 0.084-0.093.... Do they know something we should pay attention to?.... I'm betting the answer is "yes".... 8)
At 950 fps (a reasonable velocity to shoot slugs at), that means a 50 FPE gun in .22 cal, 68 FPE in .25 cal, and 100 FPE in .30 cal.... ;)
On another note, here is a drawing of the boattail slug I plan to shoot in my new .183 cal Dual Tank Benchrest PCP.... Two 700cc bottles feeding a 3600 psi regulator....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/183_cal_HP_37_gr.bmp?width=undefined&height=undefined&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/183_cal_HP_37_gr.bmp?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
37 gr. as a HP, and 39 gr. as a Spitzer (~ 85 FPE)... NOE will be doing the mold, and I have the 5.9" twist barrel on order from LW.... ;)
Bob
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I printed 50 NUAH targets today. They are 3.9999 inches to the outside of the line. Best I could measure with my Mitutoyo calipers. Hope to have some pictures and entries in the next week or two.
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Following up on my most recent post, above.... I have been checking into the new JSB Knockout slugs, and I find it interesting that they are only offering them in one weight per caliber.... 25.4 gr. in .22 cal, 34 gr. in .25 cal, and 50 gr. in .30 cal.... These are the exact same weights as they use for some of the best shooting pellets they produce.... and all are within a very narrow range of SD, between 0.076-0.080.... and BC's between 0.084-0.093.... Do they know something we should pay attention to?.... I'm betting the answer is "yes".... 8)
At 950 fps (a reasonable velocity to shoot slugs at), that means a 50 FPE gun in .22 cal, 68 FPE in .25 cal, and 100 FPE in .30 cal.... ;)
On another note, here is a drawing of the boattail slug I plan to shoot in my new .183 cal Dual Tank Benchrest PCP.... Two 700cc bottles feeding a 3600 psi regulator....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/183_cal_HP_37_gr.bmp?width=undefined&height=undefined&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/183_cal_HP_37_gr.bmp?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
37 gr. as a HP, and 39 gr. as a Spitzer (~ 85 FPE)... NOE will be doing the mold, and I have the 5.9" twist barrel on order from LW.... ;)
Bob
I'm sure projectile manufacturers are working hard to take advantage of these new generation airguns and get the most out of them :D
Bob, That 4.6mm slug gun you're working on will be a beast! Interesting choice in caliber, it will be very unique.
After my frugal attempts to shoot slugs with my .177/4.5mm, I figured I needed to park that project for a while. It takes a lot to make small calibers powerful and accurate with air power. I applaud those who can make things come together.
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I think it's official, in regards to having or reserving time for shooting I have some of the best-worst luck EVER as of late. For example, today I'm looking at 30mph (48km/h) +/- winds with gusts up to 50mph (80km/h) and rain, Lol.
On another note, After spending some time reviewing old targets from the past year and reading up on slugs, I've had a moment of realization... I've been pushing them too fast, at least from my .177 gun. Earlier on I was pushing the Nielsen's 12.5gr in the high 800's to low 900's and 15gr just above 1000fps with decent results. Then I started cranking up the speed for both, and results weren't what I was hoping for. Actually on average, they were getting worse the further north of 1000fps I went, if ever so subtle. I hadn't made the connection because one day I'd get tight grouping and the next things would open up. After finding some of Bob's writings and graphs, then comparing to my targets in hand, it became very clear what was happening... Wind drift had become more pronounced. Probably no surprise to most, but figured worth a mention. At least I've found a winter project... For when I actually get moments free of obligations :P ;D
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Thanks for posting Zack. I read Bob's link to the article on pellets and slugs and jump, but hadn't made that connection yet. Like the article said "You will probably need to read it several times" LOL!
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I really must agree that the long range air gunning is super fun. I am sure having fun with my Akela at 100 and 150 yards. As soon as I finish putting up firewood I hope to clear another 50 yards so I can shoot 200 here anytime. I'm not doing any better than I had been at the NUAH but I'm shooting most every day a little bit and getting trigger time and walking in. It sure helps when I can open the shop door and shoot, rain or shine. Friday afternoon I opened the door to sit after laying out tile for the boss in her bathroom, and decided to shoot the kyl some. Which let to the steel at 100 and 150. Then the rain came...i realized you can dope the wind easier if you can see the wind all the way :)
I went a couple of miles south Saturday to my buddy's house and hung 8" plates at 1, 2 and 300 yards for our .22lrs. I will be cutting out 1/3 scale ipsc/idpa targets out of 1/4 plate I hope this week for the airguns at the same distances. The rifle rated 8" steel is too hard to hear the .177 pellets ring. The 1/4 steel rings real nice when hung from mechanics wire, when hung from chain it dampens the ring some.
Some rain on my range and the 150 yd plate.
I'll do a search, but do you have any links to your mods on the .177 Akela or the ammo you are using? I bought one today, and hope it will be a good addition. My first .177, but need something less noisy for pesting at the house. ;D
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I'll do a search, but do you have any links to your mods on the .177 Akela or the ammo you are using? I bought one today, and hope it will be a good addition. My first .177, but need something less noisy for pesting at the house. ;D
Ken, I think Buck Rail had some accessories for the Akela. There's a good thread pertaining to trimming the hammer spring for the new Benjamin's, to gain shot count and lower the velocities a small degree (into a more pellet friendly zone).
Which kind of ties into what I've been reading about and wanted to put some thoughts out, possibly get some feedback, experiences, etc. ...
Transonic speeds
The numbers vary some, but generally ~890fps to 1300fps is regarded as the transonic velocity region. Airguns don't produce the pressures necessary to push projectiles far enough beyond 1300fps to be useful for any amount of range (to my knowledge), so for the most part we stay subsonic in pursuit of quiet and accurate shooting.
Now, airguns and their projectiles used are fairly complex. For pellets (in most cases) 900fps +/- is generally accepted as the maximum velocity for accuracy once you start reaching out further. Since they slow very quickly the amount of turbulence from transonic speed they experience is very limited but issues with over stabilizing (over spun) can occur when pushed too fast (mid to high 900's & above). Slugs on the other hand need to be spun fast to stabilize. This is all relatively new to me, so please excuse any misunderstandings... But as of what I've found so far 900fps (+/-) to 1000fps is about where one wants to shoot slugs.
BUT...
This is the transonic zone!!! Lol. Everything "bad" for accuracy is supposed to happen at those speeds, with all the shakes, rattles and...yaws ???
It would seem if we want to get the most stability with slugs, 900fps or slower would be ideal just like pellets, IF they could be spun fast enough. So is the reasoning to shoot them faster than 900fps (in most cases) to get them to stabilize in relatively slow twist barrels, or am I missing something? What velocities have others had the best results & what barrels being used?
I want to hold off from proceeding further to collect my thoughts and see what others have to add.
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The Transonic zone is from where the flow over the projectile (or aircraft) is starting to compress (about Mach 0.8 = 900 fps) to where all of the flow is Supersonic (about Mach 1.2 = 1350 fps).... Some projectiles with abrupt corners (such as wadcutters) can show local Supersonic flow below Mach 0.8, hence they are not great even at 900 fps.... Nearly every projectile starts to have Supersonic flow over some parts of the nose below Mach 1, and such flow can be unstable.... However, that does not necessarily mean poor accuracy.... The worst case for stability is when the projectile starts out Supersonic and then slows down through the Speed of Sound, as when that happens the Center of Pressure (CP - that point through which the aerodynamic forces act) moves aft significantly....
Waisted pellets have the Center of Gravity (CG) forward of the CP, and are stabilized by the flare at the back.... When the pellet yaws, a force on the flare is developed which corrects the yaw.... This can even happen Supersonic, an example is flare stabilized Supersonic specialized artillery round (often dart shaped).... but it is still best to stay Subsonic, or Supersonic, and avoid the transition when the pellets drops through the Speed of Sound.... Pellets have the best performance in a crosswind at around 850-900 fps, depending on the range to target (maybe 950 MV at long ranges)....
Slugs generally have the CG ahead of the static CP, but when driven Supersonic, the CP generally is ahead of the CG.... If the twist rate is fast enough to be stable at the Speed of Sound, the slug will generally work both Supersonic and Subsonic.... An example is the .22LR HV slug in a 16" twist.... It drops Subsonic at about 75 yards, but still shoots just fine at 100-150 yards.... However, .22LR target ammo, which has a Subsonic MV, can utilize an 18" twist, whereas the HV slug cannot.... there is not enough stabilty at the Speed of Sound with the slower twist.... Here is the stablity of a .22LR bullet in an 18" twist.... Below 1.0 is unstable....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Ballistics/.highres/Tumble.jpg?width=undefined&height=undefined&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Ballistics/.highres/Tumble.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
Interestingly, the Subsonic .22LR bullets are less affected by wind than their Supersonic counterparts.... We can take a lesson from that, and keep our slugs below about 1050 fps for best accuracy.... Optimum MV for minimum wind deflection for a given slug will depend on the range to target....
Contrary to what many have learned about bullet velocity and stability (you often hear somebody say stability increases with velocity), that only applies when Supersonic.... When slugs are travelling Subsonic, the stability usually increases as the MV drops, so marginally stable slugs may be more accurate when you slow them down in a given twist.... The fastest required twist for a given slug will always occur right at the Speed of Sound.... If the slug is stable there, it will be stable both slower and faster....
Bob
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Thanks Bob! Another bookmarked comment for further study!
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Thanks Bob! Another bookmarked comment for further study!
X2 ;D
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Bob, the detailed replies are truly appreciated. One of my following inquiries not posted yet was even touched on. There's a ton of content and information here within GTA, but it's always nice to have you chime in.
Thank you.
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I just discovered this thread, and am intrigued. Newbie question: would my FeinWerkBau 602 single pump rifle in .17, usually shooting 8,.2 gr. pellets, with aperture sights, be a possible piece to shoot at 100 yards? Have never tried, but I usually do better at 100 with my Annie 54 and its iron rear aperture sights than I do with a scope on a CZ. I realize .22 rimfire is a different beast, just wondering if my FWB is a reasonable choice for 100 yard airgun shooting? At 84, shooting ten meters standing and pumping each shot is getting to be a bit much.
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Jari, you've had very impressive results at 200 previously, not to mention the outstanding 100 yard targets you've posted. When first getting into adult airguns, I could only manage similar results to your 200 yard (meter?) results at 50 yards, and on a good day ;D
Truly impressive shooting and hope you have the time, range and weather to continue long range target.
Thanks. Anyone can do it if really want.
When i started this did believe is even possible have constant sub moa pcp.
Found current setup/ combination 4 weeks ago. So have not get opportunity go more than 100yd yet. And winter is coming fast.
Try find day and place before goes too cold.
My road have been far from easy. But very interesting process. Latest upgrade i desing solid backpiece to get rid of flex. Helped poi shift a bit. Now im after 0.5 moa constant grouping. Have to study slug barrel lapping next..
What rail is that on top?
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What rail is that on top?
Impact is great platform but everthing is hold by 4mm bolts. No dowels or anything else keep it together. So when start take +100fpe it wont keep together.
So i desing this. Zero loose anywhere. Solid to back piece, block, chassi and skope rail.
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Double..
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I just discovered this thread, and am intrigued. Newbie question: would my FeinWerkBau 602 single pump rifle in .17, usually shooting 8,.2 gr. pellets, with aperture sights, be a possible piece to shoot at 100 yards?
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just wondering if my FWB is a reasonable choice for 100 yard airgun shooting?
Your FWB 602 is a 10M target rifle, a VERY FINE 10M rifle... that being said, I doubt it would have the "umph" to shoot 100y.
But that wouldn't stop me from trying! ;)
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I just discovered this thread, and am intrigued. Newbie question: would my FeinWerkBau 602 single pump rifle in .17, usually shooting 8,.2 gr. pellets, with aperture sights, be a possible piece to shoot at 100 yards?
...
just wondering if my FWB is a reasonable choice for 100 yard airgun shooting?
Your FWB 602 is a 10M target rifle, a VERY FINE 10M rifle... that being said, I doubt it would have the "umph" to shoot 100y.
But that wouldn't stop me from trying! ;)
I'm not sure about the fpe of a 602 but I've shot my 7 fpe 177 Diana Chaser at 100 yards and it did better than I expected. I'm waiting for cooler weather to try to again.
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What rail is that on top?
Impact is great platform but everthing is hold by 4mm bolts. No dowels or anything else keep it together. So when start take +100fpe it wont keep together.
So i desing this. Zero loose anywhere. Solid to back piece, block, chassi and skope rail.
Thanks. I thought it was a after market top rail.
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I just discovered this thread, and am intrigued. Newbie question: would my FeinWerkBau 602 single pump rifle in .17, usually shooting 8,.2 gr. pellets, with aperture sights, be a possible piece to shoot at 100 yards?
...
just wondering if my FWB is a reasonable choice for 100 yard airgun shooting?
Your FWB 602 is a 10M target rifle, a VERY FINE 10M rifle... that being said, I doubt it would have the "umph" to shoot 100y.
But that wouldn't stop me from trying! ;)
I'm not sure about the fpe of a 602 but I've shot my 7 fpe 177 Diana Chaser at 100 yards and it did better than I expected. I'm waiting for cooler weather to try to again.
It's been a while since I've looked at this thread, Lol...
I've shot some 'slow' guns at distances people, including myself, wouldn't think they would group well or at all. Haven't stretched them to 100 yards or better yet, but out to 82-83 yards with good success. These guns were shooting as slow as ~470fps in .177 to 520fps in .22cal. Pellets seemed to remain perfectly stable. When I eventually clear my new 100 yard range out back, I plan to retest and see what I can manage on paper. You'd be surprised as to how far you can shoot lower velocity airguns as long as the wind cooperates, there are no overhead obstacles and if you can get enough scope adjustment/tilt.
Lately I've been rethinking my approach to long range shooting with airguns. Instead of shooting as fast as possible while trying to maintain pellet stability, I want to try shooting as slow as possible and still be able to use my optic's reticle. Don't know if I could but would like to shoot slow enough to track my pellets during flight all the way to my target. There's a fine springer I've found in .25cal I'd like to get my hands on, with JSB 25.4gr pellets it's only shooting around 530fps at best, I think it would be hilarious to lob pellets out to 100+ yards with such a gun. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depends how you look at it) there are pcp's that can be easily detuned to such power levels for half the cost, and are probably more accurate. I've just been hoping to get back to self-contained airguns, straying away from the darkside as much as possible.
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Have had great results at long range with .177 and slugs speeds in the 750 - 850 fps range, wind and time to target are the main enemies of accuracy then.
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If you have the range, the lead, and the time to do it, why not? It's all fun.
https://youtu.be/LXqWGOP9GUk?si=ZR2nIuqfg2P4fLOf
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Lately I've been rethinking my approach to long range shooting with airguns. Instead of shooting as fast as possible while trying to maintain pellet stability, I want to try shooting as slow as possible and still be able to use my optic's reticle. I've just been hoping to get back to self-contained airguns, straying away from the darkside as much as possible.
Well, Zack, ;)
that all sounds really honorable and wise — staying away from the Dark Side as much as possible.
You go ahead and do that.
And allow me to help you just a little bit.
Because I fear you are really straying of the good path. Because if you're not walking on the Dark Side you might forget your obligation as airgunner "in good standing": The obligation of spending high dollar amounts on airgunning.
So, you stated you wanted to continue to use your scope's reticle to make your shots to ranges beyond-reasonable-for-low-powered-guns:
➠ Well, the following Scope Specs Table offers you 38 scopes with medium to large magnification (so you can see your impacts at those beyond-the-horizon ranges). These scopes have something in common that will help to make your shot using the reticle — they allow you to dial 100 moa of elevation adjustment or MORE.
And then you still have plenty of mil dots or moa hashes in your reticle to make your shot....
Have fun! 😊
The scopes all have:
▪ magnification of at least 4x on the bottom end▪ at least 18x on the top end
▪ 10y min. parallax (a few 15y)
▪ Holdoff reticle
▪ Exposed turrets
Matthias
❌ Attachment:
Scope Specs Table:
▪ 100moa or more elevation adjustment
▪ Magnification at least 4x on the bottom end, at least 18x on the top end
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Thank you, Mattias. I appreciate the attachment, I've had issues with finding optics with more than 70 MOA of total elevation adjustment. I have used various compensation mounts/bases/rings, but currently have no permanent set up as of yet for extended range shooting. Using these I can achieve between 20MOA and 160MOA of adjustment before touching the elevation turret. I'm a little nervous when words like "spending high dollar amounts" are said, especially when one has a small fortune invested in this hobby already :o ;D ;)
...That and Misses R happened to catch me looking at "budget friendly" optics in the $300-$600 range and asked why I'd spend that much on just a scope, which was almost hilarious to see her expressions as I explained and showed her what good optics cost. Guessing everyone knows how that went over...
For fun and fairly inexpensive, one springer I own is set up with a Williams peep sight on a dovetail raiser, giving far more elevation adjustment than the factory rear sight. Originally wanted a tang sight set up, but already had the peep and raiser. Have not had the chance to test and dial in yet but should be good for larger targets at extended ranges, given I can actually see the targets and compensate for wind drift, Lol.
It's worth mentioning, I do have a few pcp's but haven't been reaching for them nearly as much as my springers (95% of what I shoot). The areas that I can shoot much beyond 100 yards would be difficult to bring support equipment. Finding just having gun, pellets and target trap or targets to be plenty to haul already, unless I plan to shoot a limited amount. Unfortunately, the way things have worked out when the weather is perfect for long range airgunning I haven't had time and when I have opportunity the weather is poor.