GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => Turkish AirGun Gate => Topic started by: Privateer on July 29, 2022, 02:21:40 AM
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I'm dedicating this thread to Dez and Gene.
LONG before I found GTA they blazed the trail on this fine Air Rifle. So I'm not doing much different but younger Members may pass on a good Daisy Rifle by not knowing what it actually is!
It's the first issue of a 125 Hatsan to hit this side of the Pond. I talked to Dez and he confirmed the serial numbers as the early imports.
Granted I may have better piston seals then they had, and I'll be using a Hatsan Ram from a Mod 95 they didn't have.
But I'm just retracing their foot steps for the most part to restore a fine old shooter to suit me.
The Rifle is in very good condition and still shoots great. But being old? It has the Wire Spring and makes a heck of a lot of noise as Springers do. So I have the parts and the time so why not?
The Mod 95 Ram may lower the FPS but I can pump that up for now if need be. I'll put it in as is to start.
This will be a reverse Ram install. The bulk will be fitted in the piston, so backwards from the Mod 95 install.
I'll be doing all the good stuff like delrin buttons on the piston and every little trick I've learned from others so it should be fun.
I hope you all enjoy as I progress.
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Cool! I suppose the "Winchester 125"'s have synthetic stocks, like the Walther Talon / Falcon Hunters, which were also early H125 variants, starting from around 2007.
Coilspring magnum Hatsans make terrible mechanical noise mostly because they have a miniature joke for a spring guide. Replacing that with something that actually fits, supports, holds and guides the mainspring transforms these guns. A tophat is optional.
The other biggie is the piston seal, which is likely compromised from factory install. Intact, well-fitted piston seals are critical in these heavy-spring / heavy-piston guns. Without one, a slammy, ringing, kicking shot cycle is to be expected.
Not trying to turn you away from the planned switch, but some 10 years back switching Hatsan coilsprings for gasrams was all the rage. It did improve the shot cycle off the factory setting a bunch.
Since then, a huge number of Hatsan Vortek users have experienced mysteriously failing powerplants, often after an extended layoff, while guys like MikeyB have illustrated how to make the much more reliable coilspring option behave.
I wonder how well does the ram for the 95 fit the much longer H125 receiver? Will there be quite a bit of "negative preload" with such a pairing?
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A Model 95 ram is usually at 125 bar from the factory but will pump to 150 bar, just need a Hatsan fill probe for that and guessing you have 1 or 2...lol.
Can also be rebuilt should you need to and the shaft end is the one that matters since that front brass cap that houses the shaft arm is where Vortex
rams fail.
2nd is the rear cap on that 95 gas ram. I had the Talon but never apart and I never would have thought about trying to squeeze a reversed Vortex
gas ram in it, so hopefully the piston has a big enough inner diameter to to fit that forked end cap in it. Measured mine and it's 26.5mm.
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When you say "Winchester Hatsan 125" do you mean Winchester 1000?
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Not sure who you are addressing there, but I myself was only going off the OP, which described a Winchester .177 cal that's actually a Hatsan 125.
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It's the Winchester Model 1000 as sold by Daisy WAY BACK!
It's basically the MOD 125 but was commonly known as a Mod 70 back then.
Steve is probably right that the Hatsan Ram won't work so I'll use a Crosman Ram.
I'll need to order a new one but I have an old one here good enough for fitting parts.
It just might push a pellet far enough to fall out of the end of the barrel!
;D
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Hatsan ram would work, you'd just need the ones they use in something like the Edge that don't have the forked end cap.
Which is where the Crosman rams come in since they're like $30 cheaper than what Hatsan wants for a Vortex ram.
Random lame thought would be see how tight that Hatty rear cap is compared to the piston and try to trim it back to fit?
If you could, the trimmed back forks would do the centering for you and no need to make something.
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I have the Win. 1000 and had Daisy 1000 from pawn shops. Daisy's in the parts bin. I ordered a wood Win. stock for the Daisy from Daisy. Another pawn shop gun, a Win. 800, is in that wood stock now. Identical gun as the 1000 just less spring I guess. That Hatsan Winchester trigger is a bear to work on. Never again. I just shoot'em as is.
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Ill try to remember to swing by my storage unit I have a junk umerix that has a good piston in it. Could be useful could be junk but if you want it its yours.
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I have one of them 1000's from Turkey in .177, recoil is mellower than the trigger break, but if you shoot it enough it is usable ;)
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Some seem to think they are similar to the newer Chjnese Winchester 1100w and 1100s. But they are a different gun, similar kinda' sorta'. I also own 1100w and 1100s.
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recoil is mellower than the trigger break
Well, talk about damning with a faint praise ;D
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I have a Winchetser 1000X I got at a pawn shop. I need a piston seal but cant find one anywhere. I see no way to remove the trigger group. It looks like it is welded on.
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I may have an extra seal. I'll need to get this one taken apart to check my seals 1st to make sure they are the correct ones.
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I may have an extra seal. I'll need to get this one taken apart to check my seals 1st to make sure they are the correct ones.
Mine doesn't even have a seal at all. It came home from the pawn shop and shot a few times before dropping in power to the point of taking two or three cocks to work a pellet out of the barrel. It had some pieces of a crystalized rubber or plastic around the top of the piston that I had to pry off in chunks.
How can I tell which seal might work? Just try to fit one like you are doing?
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I have the Mod 95 apart. Now going to take the Winchester 1000 apart.
It should be the same seal as a Hatsan 125. I have several of those.
I'll post about that ASAP.
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In Hatsan sizing IIR it is the medium sized one :-\ ???
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Air Gun Headquarters-New Haysan 95-Striker-Win. 1000, Product code Hat95, 1.065 inch OD, $11.95
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In the current models of Hatsan breakbarrel rifles I own I have (ballpark) measured the following:
RifleModels,CompTubeID(mm),StrokeLength(mm),SweptVolume(cm^3)
Edge/Mod95,27mm,96mm,55cm^3
Mod125,29mm,123mm,81cm^3
Mod135,30mm,123mm,87cm^3
If the rifle you are discussing measures closer to the modern Mod125 then Mod95 seals and Mod95 Vortex air springs or Crosman NP1,2 compressed gas springs will not work. They do not have a long enough stroke length.
If the rifle measures closer to the current Winchester 1100 series then those Air/Gas springs may work.
I have several current Mod125/Mod135 rifles. More than half came with steel coil springs (my choice & preference) and the remainder with the Vortex air springs. The coil springs are not well dampened and those rifles typically had a harsh and "buzzy" shot cycle.
I have modified all of my Mod125/135 coil springers to use much longer and properly snug fitting spring guides. This tames the shot cycle dramatically and those coil springers now shoot as buzz-twang free as their Vortex siblings.
If you are not able to make the conversion to an Air/Gas spring, I think a real spring guide may provide the results you desire.
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I have one of them 1000's from Turkey in .177, recoil is mellower than the trigger break, but if you shoot it enough it is usable ;)
+1. i got 2 of them, and one being the really early version that had the synthetic stock with the "saddle bags" at the bottom of the forearm. Mine is accurate and still shoots in the 900 range. cant fault it, it is a good field gun.
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Since we've been talking about them for 5-6 days I took my Winchesters out back and shot them some.
Chronied them, re-zeroed the scopes and shot targets at 20 yards.
Win. 1000X w/ RWS Meisterkugeln .177 8.2grs w/c 841, 896,890, 850, 843. 1/2 gruops
Win. 800X w/ Meisters 561, 560, 561, 565, 572.
W/ RWS R-10 Match w/c 7grs 688, 717, 684, 674, 683. 1/2 inch groups
Win. 1100W W/ Meisters 975, 969, 967, 965, 967 Holes touching
Win. 1100S W/ Meisters 920, 938, 920, 924, 933 1/2 inch groups
Triggers were not to bad on any of them. Fun stuff.
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Tim... i would open the 800x up and check on the seal... that is a strange shot string.
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Tim... i would open the 800x up and check on the seal... that is a strange shot string.
Could be. That's two different pellets, but that is a wide spread. If you drop the 572 and the 717 they're not to bad.
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im sorry i did not look well enough... you are correct. decent numbers:)
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Today I received my Winchester 1000 purchased off the "bay."
all I can say is...WOW !! What a beautiful rifle!!
The stock in near flawless dark Turkish walnut....beautiful!
Metal is clean and it SHOOTS !!!
Trigger is a bit stiff, tho.
Another one for the collection.............
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Are there trigger upgrades out there for these rifles??
Will the Wild Willy trigger fit the Winnie 1000 ??