GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: desertplinker on July 23, 2022, 08:25:57 PM
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Looking for an entry level low cost PCP in 177 for target shooting. Don't need power, just punching paper. Like a mag synthetic is ok.
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Stormrider
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I have a storm rider in .22 It is nice and lite. I use it more with the single shot tray than the mag now. But the mag worked well and never gave me problems I just like taking my time shooting. Oh and mine is a first gen.
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stormrider is awesome, hard not to mod um, good learning platform .. i like the wood, has a mag, an extra is nice, little things aint cheap though ..
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I've got 2 gen 2 stormriders. One is a .177 and the other is has been regulated and converted to .25 caliber. Both have been problem free and accurate.
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well honestly my luck in the barrel dept has not been great at the cheap end of the pool... don't get me wrong have good luck also...
having a bit of an issue right now with my Icon got it on sale buds gunshop...shot well at first then the barrel damage showed up...rifling chewed by a piloted crown tool while that chewed what is supposed to be a crown... sent it in for repair and just got my rifle back... well they did not look down the barrel they sent it back with... it has even worse damage by the same tool/process... .3" of totally wiped out rifling... so will have to see, so far three quality control failures china, crosman and crosman customer service/repair... hope I end up with a good barrel.. :D
Chose the crosman Model because of parts & support... so come on guys all ya have to do is shine a light look down barrel and give please me an undamaged barrel... the kicker is it is a process that needs not be done... barrel has a protector screwed on the end... just need a flat end...no need to go further...we can finish it our selves with a brass screw if we choose to...
well any ways better trigger than Urban on mine... like it a lot...way I am using it has bout 20 2% es shots from a starting fill of 2600 psi... 892 to 907 back down to 890 with 14.3g pellets
Has good potential...already have an replacement wood stock that I want to use...From the Iconic Remington 513 T ...tis a 7 pound rifle...
So yea I like my picky little clearance gen 1 Stormrider... very lightweight...only likes AA 10.3 and JSB K.O. 13g...
an over ported(stock) little monster.. but mine has the same as the icon... very poor quality barrel work... I really should see about giving it a chopping and a new crown and maybe recheck the leade... and another longer barrel.. ;)
little guy just keeps on shooting nasty accurate at 35 yards with what it likes... 25 ish fpe stock with heavy pellets... son got him for me @ $129 Need to Make a stock extension lop is way short for me...
If they happen get Maximus back in stock... well I have three...one heavy ported to 50fpe in .22 love the simplicity...
Urbans Yotes and Buccs are nice if you can find one at a good price...
every once in a while can get a good deal on refurbished at Hatsan... got a AT44 L .22 pre QE close out for 219$ a while ago... Heavy with big air tank like my .25 Mrods... but a 44 fpe .22 stock with 30g BBT...
just might push the fpe up to about 60 some day...right now JSB 18g are a 1080 fps laser to about 35 yards...need to reseal and try some more slugs and heavier pellets...
so yep there are some good deals... some may need tuning/blueprinting...and would still choose the Icon over the Chief II plus... can't help it been a Crosman /Benji guy for 50+ years...
they all can also be tuned down for your chosen target fpe level...
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for just a bit more than Storm the Fortitude is worth a look also.. ;)
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Stoeger XM1 is the best version of stormrider. thumhoe and bi-pod is optional.
b
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Stoeger XM1 is the best version of stormrider. thumhoe and bi-pod is optional.
b
First time seeing this one.
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I have the Chief 2plus syn. It is a good gun, at least I like it. Probably more accurate than I am , but the rifles usually hits what I point it at with small groups out past 30 yards. With expensive match ammo you would do fine, I only shoot what my budget allows LOL. All in all a great gun for the money.
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There is a flock of inexpensive PCP’s….do have one question: how do you plan on filling it?
Anyway, keeping to your first post...power not important, .177, and targets rather than hunting. .177 is my choice for general playing around (although I tend to LOWER their power rather than boost it up)l.
1. Stormrider. Can include the Stoeger XM’s as Stormriders in disguise….and for a $260 the airgunarcheryfun version that comes regulated (which would help with the shot count).
2. Chief II (guess you could put the Beeman Commander in there too). My complaint about Beeman is there is no support or parts to be had.
3. A bit surprised to see the Flash QE in this price range...I’d have to consider that one, but suspect it will come out of the box more powerful than I’d want.
4. Other than a few semi-preofessional’s early test vids, no real world information on the Gamo Arrow. I’d like it to be a good rifle, but I really don’t care for the T-handle cocking.
5. Would have to shop around a bit for an Icon..the prices do vary from place to place.
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Have owned both. I say stormrider Gen 2.
Parts are available for it, its easier to fill, lighter, smaller, and has more power.
Also, the chief 2 is basically the same gun as the crosman icon. The 177s seem to be good, the 22s seem to be having issues.
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The Chief II Plus in 177 is one of my favorite guns, it's extremely tunable. .
I get close to 40 shots shooting shooting Monsters in the 850fps area and can tune it way down to get more shots for can shooting.
I REALLY like that gun, and have used it a lot.
I have the Stormrider also in 177 and it is a nice, light gun, but for me it's the Chief II Plus Synthetic !!
Don't get this gun confused with the Chief or Chief II !!! The PLUS is a different animal, it's a 3000psi tank, not a 2000psi tank !
wll
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thanks for the info, I knew the chief ll plus was 3000 psi fill, not much info on the chief ll plus syn.. And Ribbonstone, I have a tank and a compressor to fill with. Never liked pumping, kind of old for that.
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thanks for the info, I knew the chief ll plus was 3000 psi fill, not much info on the chief ll plus syn.. And Ribbonstone, I have a tank and a compressor to fill with. Never liked pumping, kind of old for that.
for long term honestly would go with the Icon over the Chief II plus... and actually it is Chief II Plus-s for Synthetic...II plus is just calling it a shorter name...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6-VnKlMV84 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6-VnKlMV84)
Honestly there is more than one reason for me choosing the Icon... Chief(see waht I did there ;) ) among them is long term support... am gambling it will be like all other Crosman branded rifles...may want to mod valve/stuff in future...parts support safety blanket if I mess up matters... think the odds are in my favor...
Second... it has a better trigger/safety setup IMO...
Third... would rather have have 1/2 unf threaded Muzzle...
Fourth... I actually like bolt action... if Barra 1100z is included in choices...
the con on the Icon for me is the stock... But like I said I have an Iconic stock standing on the wings...
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The Chief II Plus in 177 is one of my favorite guns, it's extremely tunable. .
I get close to 40 shots shooting shooting Monsters in the 850fps area and can tune it way down to get more shots for can shooting.
I REALLY like that gun, and have used it a lot.
I have the Stormrider also in 177 and it is a nice, light gun, but for me it's the Chief II Plus Synthetic !!
Don't get this gun confused with the Chief or Chief II !!! The PLUS is a different animal, it's a 3000psi tank, not a 2000psi tank !
wll
I couldn't get mine to do more than 830 with 10.65s for 36 shots before dropping off. Odd the two are so different.
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I'll toss this in there too... what about the new Barra 1100z? Getting good reviews thus far and only $275 for the black synthetic version.
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I'll toss this in there too... what about the new Barra 1100z? Getting good reviews thus far and only $275 for the black synthetic version.
well depends on how support develops with the brand... If you are one who demands a sidelever then is the only Choice...
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The Chief II Plus in 177 is one of my favorite guns, it's extremely tunable. .
I get close to 40 shots shooting shooting Monsters in the 850fps area and can tune it way down to get more shots for can shooting.
I REALLY like that gun, and have used it a lot.
I have the Stormrider also in 177 and it is a nice, light gun, but for me it's the Chief II Plus Synthetic !!
Don't get this gun confused with the Chief or Chief II !!! The PLUS is a different animal, it's a 3000psi tank, not a 2000psi tank !
wll
I couldn't get mine to do more than 830 with 10.65s for 36 shots before dropping off. Odd the two are so different.
My last report was 4-11-21 on this gun, but I did others on it too.
I marked the back and hammer spring plug and turn it down every about 7 shots to keep the velocity as level as I can.
As I remember the spring is very loose.
Like I said it has been a while !
wll
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End of this story. The op (me) just hit the buy button on a Stormrider Gen 2 Synthetic. Just a tad over two Benjamins with free shipping. Watched Tyler on Pyramid do an install of a Reg and on the Stormrider I cannot see how it could be easier. Will have to wait on the Reg when I get a couple more bucks in the air gun funds for the Reg.
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This is the one record I have from 2021 of 33 shots from the Chief II Plus-S that was on my FX chrono.:
Average Vel was 848 --- This is a powerful gun. I'm not sure if I adjusted the hammer tension by a 1/4 turn on this string every 7 or so shots ?
(https://photos.imageevent.com/wlleven/k10dtest/downloadphotos/C2and%20Monster%20Velocity.png)
wll
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End of this story. The op (me) just hit the buy button on a Stormrider Gen 2 Synthetic. Just a tad over two Benjamins with free shipping. Watched Tyler on Pyramid do an install of a Reg and on the Stormrider I cannot see how it could be easier. Will have to wait on the Reg when I get a couple more bucks in the air gun funds for the Reg.
I need one in .22 and 2 more regulators then I'll have all 3 calibers covered. Hopefully yours will be as good as the 2 I own already.
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Thanks Eddie
I hope mine arrives with no major issues.
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Here is a little about Ribby's and my gen 1 .177s...
mine shot just a touch more fpe with 15g Sniper Mags than his with the 16.2g... other than that shot strings were close to mirroring his strings...
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=151471.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=151471.0)
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Going back to the original post. Wanted .177, didn’t care about power, target shooting the goal, repeater preferred, synthetic stock was OK but not a must have.
Everyone has their own version of target shooting. Short range/long range. Bullseye for score, dots, or just group size. Most of us heap “plinking” in with the day’s shooting as well.
So the questions are: 1. What are you going to be shooting at? 2. How many times are you intending to shoot at one sitting?
The two are interrelated….power costs shot count. No substitute for power when you need it. Mostly do not need it to shoot targets.
For me, it’s shooting paper at 25-30 yards, looking for an average of 5 5-shot groups close to MOA size (.25” at 25 yards) and for just general goofing off; splattering old grapes and “feel good” spinners. Call them “feel good” targets as we won’t know group size/how badly a miss is a miss; just feel good when it spins or splatters.
Have put together inexpensive .177 HPA rifles based on QB’s that do well on targets. Not much work needed to end up at 200 shots (12 foot pound shots) per fill of the 13cuin HPA tank. That’s a lot more than I’ll be able to seriously shoot at a sitting. Could plink away that many shots, but not be able to really shoot my best much past 40-50 shots.
The ,177 Stormrider (actually older than that...just call it a SPA) got set up for hunting. Adjusted to 19 foot pounds and 25 good shots, it’s not super efficient, but serves well as a walk-about type rifle. COULD likely down tune it to something closer to 11-12 foot pounds and about 40 good shots and make a good back yard target rifle out of it; it’s accurate enough to keep me entertained.
Regulation isn’t too expensive for a Storm-rider, that could get more shots per fill if that’s a goal.
Beeman’s lack of parts support really isn’t an issue for a hobbyist. Most likely worse case is you have to make poppets….can find o-rings locally. Large parts breakage is really rare (unless you mod it and have an “oops’).
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End of this story. The op (me) just hit the buy button on a Stormrider Gen 2 Synthetic. Just a tad over two Benjamins with free shipping. Watched Tyler on Pyramid do an install of a Reg and on the Stormrider I cannot see how it could be easier. Will have to wait on the Reg when I get a couple more bucks in the air gun funds for the Reg.
See if you can find a CP-2 hammer spring. With the reg set to 100b and the lighter spring you can get around 40 consistent shots per fill. If you install the reg without a plenum you will not hit the same peak power as unregulated, but 150b would be the "power tune" for using a reg. The original hammer spring is a bit too strong for lower reg settings, but will work well at 150b. You should still get a decent number of shots per fill at 150b.
personally I fill these guns to 220b with a regulator fitted, I do not suggest anyone else do this, but it's what I do.
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Stoeger XM1 is the best version of stormrider. thumhoe and bi-pod is optional.
b
This was also news to me, so I looked it up, and sure enough it is! The included sling mounts are also a nice touch. It also looks like the barrel has a shroud forward of the barrel band, even though that moderator is hideous. I kind of want to try one, but not in the budget right now. Maybe after I convert my Stormrider to .25 cal I'll snag one.
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Steve:
Think you’ll like the size/weight of the Storm-rider and hopefully it will fill your expectations/needs.
Reason I kept mine at 19 foot pounds was simple...I bought a .177 CO2 version (600W) at the same time to fill the low-power role.
Normally will not adjust anything until I’ve shot the rifle 100 times to at least start a break in. Maybe the trigger, but would be ready to readjust it after a few 100 cycles.
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Thanks for the answers guys thats one reason that I come here. So much experience on here.
So, some answers. Mostly I can only shoot 27 yards max in the backyard. Bench rest shooting at paper to start. Then, off hand shooting to remain humble. When I can I like to go out and just plink in the desert stretching out the distance. 11-12 FT. LBS is just fine, more shots per fill the better but need to be in the sweet spot. What guide lines can those with experience offer for a reg? Is it even worth it. I have a chronograph so I can tune for the sweet spot and have tank and compressor so filling often is not an issue. Spacebus ... I like the idea of a lighter hammer spring. Will look into that. Installing the Reg in the Stormrider is so easy, that's one reason i am considering that. Seems snowpeak is emerging as the champion leader for any brand that wants to put their name on a entry level low cost Chinese PCP.
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Thanks for the answers guys thats one reason that I come here. So much experience on here.
So, some answers. Mostly I can only shoot 27 yards max in the backyard. Bench rest shooting at paper to start. Then, off hand shooting to remain humble. When I can I like to go out and just plink in the desert stretching out the distance. 11-12 FT. LBS is just fine, more shots per fill the better but need to be in the sweet spot. What guide lines can those with experience offer for a reg? Is it even worth it. I have a chronograph so I can tune for the sweet spot and have tank and compressor so filling often is not an issue. Spacebus ... I like the idea of a lighter hammer spring. Will look into that. Installing the Reg in the Stormrider is so easy, that's one reason i am considering that. Seems snowpeak is emerging as the champion leader for any brand that wants to put their name on a entry level low cost Chinese PCP.
Don't use the lighter CP-2 Hammer spring unless you get a regulator, otherwise you won't be able to open the valve on a full fill. It's designed for CO2 pressures, not HPA. When coupled with a regulator you will get 40+ shots with a sub 5% ES with a 220b fill. In .177 I would expect power to be 12-15 FPE with that tune. Also the bolt will be much easier to cock and less like the break the bolt handle (a weak point on these guns, I've broken a few).
If you keep the rifle unregulated you get like 13-16 shots in the sweet spot at 20-25 FPE at 175b down to 135b. The tuning is not actually that bad out of the box if you don't fill past 175b, if you are looking for power.
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The Thing I like about the Storm is the ease of changing the barrel...be careful not to strip the grub screws tho... but yep loosen the two grub screws and out she comes...
Mine should be the Monkey King Storm with a few different barrels... a 26" barrel and we are talking a ~30fpe .177... a 19" L.W. Barrel just cause it say's it's a Diana(German)...
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The Thing I like about the Storm is the ease of changing the barrel...be careful not to strip the grub screws tho... but yep loosen the two grub screws and out she comes...
Mine should be the Monkey King Storm with a few different barrels... a 26" barrel and we are talking a ~30fpe .177... a 19" L.W. Barrel just cause it say's it's a Diana(German)...
Where did you get the 26" barrel?
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sorry have not done it yet... did not mean to mislead... had picked up a .177 Maximus Barrel from crosman to mod/turn down breech area for it... and then sleeve to 1/2" with aluminum tube... with two bored out barrel bands...
but then the 362 was announced and it went on it instead... hopefully they (Maximus barrels) will be back in stock soon...
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Stoeger XM1 is the best version of stormrider. thumhoe and bi-pod is optional.
b
How do you know it's a Stormrider?
I was looking through their catalog and it does like it's an interesting PCP.
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Stoeger XM1 is the best version of stormrider. thumhoe and bi-pod is optional.
b
How do you know it's a Stormrider?
I was looking through their catalog and it does like it's an interesting PCP.
Never mind :-[ "Mine should be the Monkey King Storm with a few different barrels... a 26" barrel and we are talking a ~30fpe .177... a 19" L.W. Barrel just cause it say's it's a Diana(German)..."
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Looked at the Stoeger XM and I am not crazy about the barrel shroud being attached to the tube, also the trigger says single stage like the Stormrider Gen one non adjustable, and I got the stormrider gen 2 for a few less dollars. Just me but i don't care for the shroud on the Stoeger.
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Xm is about 5" longer over all....most of that is shroud/LDC length...so it likely is quieter.
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Looked at the Stoeger XM and I am not crazy about the barrel shroud being attached to the tube, also the trigger says single stage like the Stormrider Gen one non adjustable, and I got the stormrider gen 2 for a few less dollars. Just me but i don't care for the shroud on the Stoeger.
It's not attached to the tube, but comes close to contact the fill cap. The camo version has a slightly different moderator with more clearance between the fill cap and back of the mod. The black one looks like it has a flip out section for checking fill pressure.
It's definitely a unique version of the platform.
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as some of you know I ordered the Stormrider and am awaiting delivery. In the meantime I am searching and researching all that I can find on the Stormrider and look what I found. Connecticut airguns (Hector) has done some tuning on the Stormrider. If some of you don't know Hector is active in the Airgun competition community and has actually been involved in shooting competition for most of his life. He was involved in the Altaros Regulator design for the Stormrider and he and I are exchanging emails at the present time I hope that he will help me tune the Stormrider for my personal needs. I would post a link but I am not sure that I am allowed. I will ask Hector if I can repost his emails on here. Funny thing is I ordered the Stormrider before I had any idea that Hector had already been working on them. LOL
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yep He even put a Diana barrel on one...wish I could source one for mine.. ;) he did say Diana was thinking about putting them out as "accessory" barrels...
https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/exploring-the-diana-stormrider-part-3-the-mid-power-region-800-fps-and-above-in-0177-and-20-ft-lbs-022-under-real-world-conditions-at-the-2018-pyramyd-air-cup (https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/exploring-the-diana-stormrider-part-3-the-mid-power-region-800-fps-and-above-in-0177-and-20-ft-lbs-022-under-real-world-conditions-at-the-2018-pyramyd-air-cup)
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yep He even put a Diana barrel on one...wish I could source one for mine.. ;) he did say Diana was thinking about putting them out as "accessory" barrels...
https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/exploring-the-diana-stormrider-part-3-the-mid-power-region-800-fps-and-above-in-0177-and-20-ft-lbs-022-under-real-world-conditions-at-the-2018-pyramyd-air-cup (https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/exploring-the-diana-stormrider-part-3-the-mid-power-region-800-fps-and-above-in-0177-and-20-ft-lbs-022-under-real-world-conditions-at-the-2018-pyramyd-air-cup)
Looks like an older blog post as, so I doubt Diana is bringing them to market. Which is a shame, I would love to have a longer .22 cal drop in barrel option, perhaps one without a choke for use with slugs.
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yep He even put a Diana barrel on one...wish I could source one for mine.. ;) he did say Diana was thinking about putting them out as "accessory" barrels...
https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/exploring-the-diana-stormrider-part-3-the-mid-power-region-800-fps-and-above-in-0177-and-20-ft-lbs-022-under-real-world-conditions-at-the-2018-pyramyd-air-cup (https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/exploring-the-diana-stormrider-part-3-the-mid-power-region-800-fps-and-above-in-0177-and-20-ft-lbs-022-under-real-world-conditions-at-the-2018-pyramyd-air-cup)
Looks like an older blog post as, so I doubt Diana is bringing them to market. Which is a shame, I would love to have a longer .22 cal drop in barrel option, perhaps one without a choke for use with slugs.
Reading the blog and talking with Hector it took over a year for the Stormrider Regulator from Altaros to reach the market. lots of things going on with manufacture people and they are busy. It may or may not happen, who knows?