GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: RocketMan58 on July 22, 2022, 06:53:23 PM
-
So I've been on hiatus from airgunning for a 6-8 years or so and am now looking to add something to my collection to help inspire me as I return. I already own a regulated Benj Marauder FT in 22 and a BSA made Gamo (forget model but it's a push button cocker off the forend) in 177 along with a host of well tuned springers. All shoot well but I'm looking for something "different" this time around. In particular, I'm looking for something compact, relatively quiet to shoot (rested) in my backyard wooded range at paper, spinners, cans , knockdowns and reactive targets from 20-60 yds in my back yard. ( No hunting/pest control planned for this rifle.) I don't need knockdown power and am thinking either 22 or 177 cal is just fine. The Benjamin Akela has caught my eye as filling that bill and are currently on sale at 15-20% off . I have noticed that Akela tuning has been a well visited topic here and am not opposed to doing some tinkering to sweeten the rifle up (I'm a retired Engineer and fairly handy) I have also noticed that most Akela owners here seem to chose the 22 flavor but that could be just a hunting/long range thing. I am wondering if there is any downside to this particular rifle in 177 for my informal purpose . Loudness? Accuracy? efficiency? Thoughts of those in the know are appreciated.
-
Dave, @ 60yds in any wind, I think .22 would suit you better. Plus, .22 and .177 ammo is the same for the most part. The Akela has plenty of power to sling heavier .22 ammo.
-
My vote would be for .22 cal. Unless you need a higher shot count or plan on hand pumping. Then I would go for the .177.
-
Thanks Gents, 22 is kind of what I was thinking (for those same reasons) but am open. I purchased a cheap Chinese pump so no more pumping ( Doctors orders!) I was thinking 177 might be quieter/easier on targets with the lower energy but you have to hit them first :-) For clarification, most of my shooting will be at 1/2 to 1" targets at 20 to 40 yds but I figure I'll hang a few 3" gongs out at 50 and 60 for giggles.
-
I have an akela that came as 177, but only bought it because it was on sale. The 22 will be a better option if you're planning on going to 60 yards. Also, the 22 seems less pellet picky. I converted mine to 25 for the power and it is very accurate too.
-
Yea, the 177 is about $80 cheaper but that's not a real driver here. The Akela is cheap enough on sale, I just want a good match. I think I'll order the .22 version this weekend.
-
Yea, the 177 is about $80 cheaper but that's not a real driver here. The Akela is cheap enough on sale, I just want a good match. I think I'll order the .22 version this weekend.
Kral puncher breaker isn't as attractive looking but uses the same trigger and valving plus easier to tune. You can swap the factory lever for a biathlon lever and the feel is much nicer.
-
Yea, the 177 is about $80 cheaper but that's not a real driver here. The Akela is cheap enough on sale, I just want a good match. I think I'll order the .22 version this weekend.
Kral puncher breaker isn't as attractive looking but uses the same trigger and valving plus easier to tune. You can swap the factory lever for a biathlon lever and the feel is much nicer.
I’d like to hear more details about what makes the Puncher Breaker easier to tune? How similar is the Puncher Breaker to other Kral rifles such as the Empire or Monarch?
-
My 2 cents- I have an Akela 22. I absolutely love it. It was my first bullpup of three now. It shoots hard, is very accurate and consistent. Although i also shoot if from the bench on bags or a bipod I do not think it is your best bet for a bench gun. I hunt and pest with mine a lot, usually semi rested with my off hand against a tree or something else, and it is deadly. It even makes me look good. I regularly take Hosps, starlings and pigeons (actually it seems we have killed all the pigeons for now) from the tops of silos at 54 yds. I also have several headshot kills up to to 85 plus yds on groundhogs.
I love mine but in general a long gun will be a better bench shooter.
-
My 2 cents- I have an Akela 22. I absolutely love it. It was my first bullpup of three now. It shoots hard, is very accurate and consistent. Although i also shoot if from the bench on bags or a bipod I do not think it is your best bet for a bench gun. I hunt and pest with mine a lot, usually semi rested with my off hand against a tree or something else, and it is deadly. It even makes me look good. I regularly take Hosps, starlings and pigeons (actually it seems we have killed all the pigeons for now) from the tops of silos at 54 yds. I also have several headshot kills up to to 85 plus yds on groundhogs.
I love mine but in general a long gun will be a better bench shooter.
That's funny because I'm the exact opposite. I think bullpups are easier to shoot on a bench with a proper rest and prefer long guns for off hand shooting! Guess it's the old everyone is different thing.
-
Yea, the 177 is about $80 cheaper but that's not a real driver here. The Akela is cheap enough on sale, I just want a good match. I think I'll order the .22 version this weekend.
Kral puncher breaker isn't as attractive looking but uses the same trigger and valving plus easier to tune. You can swap the factory lever for a biathlon lever and the feel is much nicer.
I’d like to hear more details about what makes the Puncher Breaker easier to tune? How similar is the Puncher Breaker to other Kral rifles such as the Empire or Monarch?
I've had both these rifles and own a few krals and just recently sold my kratos. The trigger setups are different and the valves are similar, but the ports are lined up differently. On the kral guns, the ports are closer to the front o-ring groove on the valve and barrel, which gives you more room to open them up towards the leade and not into the rifling.
The Benji guns it's the opposite. The port is really close to the rear groove and that leaves you little room for porting as you'd be getting into the rifling if you've too much forward.
Hammer and spring setups are different on between the guns as well.
I dont know if Troy was referring to the older breakers, but the newer Kral guns have a different setup than what was in my kratos or akela.
-
My 2 cents- I have an Akela 22. I absolutely love it. It was my first bullpup of three now. It shoots hard, is very accurate and consistent. Although i also shoot if from the bench on bags or a bipod I do not think it is your best bet for a bench gun. I hunt and pest with mine a lot, usually semi rested with my off hand against a tree or something else, and it is deadly. It even makes me look good. I regularly take Hosps, starlings and pigeons (actually it seems we have killed all the pigeons for now) from the tops of silos at 54 yds. I also have several headshot kills up to to 85 plus yds on groundhogs.
I love mine but in general a long gun will be a better bench shooter.
That's funny because I'm the exact opposite. I think bullpups are easier to shoot on a bench with a proper rest and prefer long guns for off hand shooting! Guess it's the old everyone is different thing.
I definitely should have put a YMMV disclaimer on that!
These are my experiences and stating that in general long guns should be better on th bench is my understanding of conventional wisdom. I certainly couls be set straight on that.
I still really like my Akela though.
-
My 2 cents- I have an Akela 22. I absolutely love it. It was my first bullpup of three now. It shoots hard, is very accurate and consistent. Although i also shoot if from the bench on bags or a bipod I do not think it is your best bet for a bench gun. I hunt and pest with mine a lot, usually semi rested with my off hand against a tree or something else, and it is deadly. It even makes me look good. I regularly take Hosps, starlings and pigeons (actually it seems we have killed all the pigeons for now) from the tops of silos at 54 yds. I also have several headshot kills up to to 85 plus yds on groundhogs.
I love mine but in general a long gun will be a better bench shooter.
That's funny because I'm the exact opposite. I think bullpups are easier to shoot on a bench with a proper rest and prefer long guns for off hand shooting! Guess it's the old everyone is different thing.
I definitely should have put a YMMV disclaimer on that!
These are my experiences and stating that in general long guns should be better on th bench is my understanding of conventional wisdom. I certainly couls be set straight on that.
I still really like my Akela though.
Well, you are correct with most people prefer long guns for bench rest, im just an odd duck!
When standing and shooting a bullpup, it puts my neck at an odd angle or something, no matter how high are far forward I put my scope. When I bench rest them I can have them rested differently I guess.
I still have 2 of my pups and I just don't shoot them as much. My recent fascination with my Akela is because I converted it to 25 caliber so it convinced me to shoot it more.
-
I have the Akela in .177 and the Cayden in .22. My recommendation would be to go with the .22 in the Akela. My .177 Akela was shooting way too hot right out of the box, and it took trimming the hammer spring and adding a regulator to get it where it's shooting consistantly and accurately. The Cayden, on the other hand, has been a supreme shooter right out of the box, no tuning required. It's unregulated shot string was flatter than many of my regulated air rifles! Since the .177 Akela came well after the release of the .22 Akela and Cayden, I think Crosman/Benjamin/whoever in Turkey who manufactures them use the exact same internal parts for the .22 and .177 and that's what the .177 Akela is not optimally tuned right out of the box. I use my Cayden exclusively for longer range pesting, i.e. 50 yards or more, and it's extremely accurate at those distances using 15.89 grain and 18.13 grain JSB pellets. I still have to use 10.3 grain or heavier pellets in my Akela to maintain any kind of accuracy, so it could probably benefit from some more tinkering.
-
Yea, the 177 is about $80 cheaper but that's not a real driver here. The Akela is cheap enough on sale, I just want a good match. I think I'll order the .22 version this weekend.
Kral puncher breaker isn't as attractive looking but uses the same trigger and valving plus easier to tune. You can swap the factory lever for a biathlon lever and the feel is much nicer.
I’d like to hear more details about what makes the Puncher Breaker easier to tune? How similar is the Puncher Breaker to other Kral rifles such as the Empire or Monarch?
I've had both these rifles and own a few krals and just recently sold my kratos. The trigger setups are different and the valves are similar, but the ports are lined up differently. On the kral guns, the ports are closer to the front o-ring groove on the valve and barrel, which gives you more room to open them up towards the leade and not into the rifling.
The Benji guns it's the opposite. The port is really close to the rear groove and that leaves you little room for porting as you'd be getting into the rifling if you've too much forward.
Hammer and spring setups are different on between the guns as well.
I dont know if Troy was referring to the older breakers, but the newer Kral guns have a different setup than what was in my kratos or akela.
Interesting. I wouldn’t have guessed they would have been all that different. I own Akela’s and like them also but don’t own anything else made by Kral.
-
If we're talking about how the trigger linkage is the same from akela vs breaker, that part is very similar.it is pretty much the same design on most bullpups, just a rod running back from the trigger to the cantilever that activates the sear.
-
Here is a comparison of the kral vs benjamin trigger setups.
Kral on top, Benji on bottom.
-
akela is pretty nice, its not small though and i wouldnt go so far as to call it compact .. as far as caliber if i had a range set up to for 50y and under id get a 177, itl shoot flatter, if you dont slow it down that is ... 177 loses its composer past 55 60 though, talking pellets .. cheap pellets lol ..
-
Paul have you tried any of the jsb 16.2 gr in your 177 ?
-
Here is a comparison of the kral vs benjamin trigger setups.
Kral on top, Benji on bottom.
That's the old kral trigger. All new Kral guns use the same trigger as the Benji guns. Kral guns switched triggers about the same time the Benji guns were developed.
-
Here is a comparison of the kral vs benjamin trigger setups.
Kral on top, Benji on bottom.
That's the old kral trigger. All new Kral guns use the same trigger as the Benji guns. Kral guns switched triggers about the same time the Benji guns were developed.
Gotcha. I haven't opened up the trigger assembly in my new mega yet, but it does have the newer "trigger blade on a stick" style like the Benji.
-
Paul have you tried any of the jsb 16.2 gr in your 177 ?
Chris, not since I added the regulator. I did when it was stock and after shortening the hammer spring. Stock it was shooting the 16.2 grain Monsters at an average of 878 FPS, but it was a steady drop from 884 FPS to 875 FPS over a 5 shot string. After shorting the hammer spring to 3", it averaged 789.2 FPS and that was more like the front end of a bell curve, starting at 777 FPS and climbing to 800 FPS over a 5 shot string.
For comparison, here are the average of 5 shots using 10.3 grain AA pellets (the only pellet I have actually shot in all 3 configurations):
Stock: 1049.8 FPS Average
3" HS: 998.2 FPS Average
3" HS/Reg: 954.8 FPS
The groups got consistantly tighter as the speed went down.
-
Paul have you tried any of the jsb 16.2 gr in your 177 ?
Chris, not since I added the regulator. I did when it was stock and after shortening the hammer spring. Stock it was shooting the 16.2 grain Monsters at an average of 878 FPS, but it was a steady drop from 884 FPS to 875 FPS over a 5 shot string. After shorting the hammer spring to 3", it averaged 789.2 FPS and that was more like the front end of a bell curve, starting at 777 FPS and climbing to 800 FPS over a 5 shot string.
For comparison, here are the average of 5 shots using 10.3 grain AA pellets (the only pellet I have actually shot in all 3 configurations):
Stock: 1049.8 FPS Average
3" HS: 998.2 FPS Average
3" HS/Reg: 954.8 FPS
The groups got consistantly tighter as the speed went down.
I had similar experience with mine in 177. Was doing around 1070 fps with 10.65s and steady drop, only get 2 mags on a fill and they were obviously all over the place.
Clipped the spring to 2.75" and it brought them down to the low 900s for 5 mags and then was a very slow decline for 3 mags after that before it would fall off.
Mine absolutely hated anything JSB, wouldn't load them well and wasn't very accurate with them. On half transfer port it shot the cheap crosmans very well, and full open it was lights out with 10.65 match pellets. It just didn't do it for knockdown power even with 20 fpe. Would punch right through doves and grackles and they'd fly off and die. Same with a squirrel unless it was a perfect shot.
So I switched to 25 caliber, 43 fpe for 30 shots and nothing has walked away since!
-
I appreciate the further discussion, Gents. It's all being watched closely. I've decided on the 22 Akela and will order tonight with intent on shortening the hammer spring. (I am going to hunt a spare spring up as soon as I can.) I think the Akela will compliment my other rifles well. As mentioned, it's not compact but all I was really wanting was something more along the length of my Dynamix and shorter than my Marauder FT.
-
Replacement hammer spring directly from crosman: CR-017
Just call their customer support and ask for parts, give them that number and they'll get you taken care of. Probably a couple bucks for the spring and it's always $4 shipping.
-
Thank You for the spring info. Very helpful. Anything else you recommend buying for parts/consumables for this rifle?
-
Thank You for the spring info. Very helpful. Anything else you recommend buying for parts/consumables for this rifle?
Buck-Rail sells a really nice barrel band with Picatinny Rails and a great Scope Rail support. He also sells a suppressor. His prices are really reasonable.
https://buck-rail.com/product/benjamin-akela-tri-rail/
https://buck-rail.com/product/akela-scope-rail-support/
https://buck-rail.com/product/benjamin-akela-suppressor/
-
I have no Akela experience but it is a very attractive gun. Is it rear cocking? I shoot from my left shoulder so a rear cocking lever on the right is in my face. I recently purchased my second and third P35 which I think is similar in price to an Akela. They are regulated guns with a cocking lever above the trigger. They also have a flush fit magazine which is also important for lefties. Stoeger has announced a bullpup that appears to be a rebranded P35 with a different stock. I just talked to one guy who has one on order but I haven't heard anybody has one yet. You have to order the P35 from Krale.
My 177 gets about 100 shots from a 250 bar fill of it's 265 cc air chamber. My 22 and 25 get about 70 shots. That many shots at consistent velocity is the advantage of the regulator IMHO. I enjoy shooting my 177 but my 22 is more accurate and I think it's a better choice in most circumstances. The 177 seems to be the most influenced by even a slight breeze. I've shot a couple 3 shot groups at 25 yards that were under 0.1 inches with the 177 but I've shot a couple with the 22 that were not visibly different from a single pellet hole. The 25 is probably worse than the 177 but has whacked the most squirrels for me. It's still an accurate gun. But for plinking 25 pellets are a bit pricey. There is also a lot more variety in the available 177 and 22 pellets. 22 probably has the most available but there are a LOT of 177s.
To me a big advantage of the P35 is that with a simple hair curler/felt mod to it's shroud you can get the noise down to the mid to low 80 db level. My 177 is about 82 db, my 22 about 85 and my 25 between the others. Nice to avoid the expense and added length of a moderator. Pellets hitting my trap are about 85 db so once I get the gun down to that level I am OK with them as "back yard friendly".
-
Thank You for the spring info. Very helpful. Anything else you recommend buying for parts/consumables for this rifle?
Buck-Rail sells a really nice barrel band with Picatinny Rails and a great Scope Rail support. He also sells a suppressor. His prices are really reasonable.
Perfect!
-
Thanks for all the help, gents. I ordered a Akela package in .22 today directly from Benjamin during their 20% off promotion. I also ordered the suite of Akela add on's from Buck Rails. I'll order a replacement/spare hammer spring this week and then I should be set for a bit. Being a bullpup newbie, I'm really looking forward to tinkering with this thing.