GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Daisy Airguns => Topic started by: HOSPassassin on May 28, 2022, 12:15:07 PM
-
This might belong in the Projectiles gate, but since the gun I was using is a 901 and this gate seems to get more traffic, I will ask the question here.
I wrote a post a few days ago asking about how I could maybe realize 40-yard hunting accuracy with a 901. It has gotten no responses so far, so I take that to mean that it can't be done given the limitations I placed on responses (like don't suggest a different gun or pellet.)
So, I decided to do another pellet test to find a dome that would shoot with at least comparable accuracy to Meisterkugelns, in the hopes that they would do better at longer ranges. During that test I dusted off a tin of Vortex Supreme 4.51 that I was saving for a different gun and was surprised when they met my expectations.
Today I set up my chrono to get velocity readings and calculate a BC. This is where it gets weird.
I did this with the MKs last week and got an average of 594 fps at the muzzle and 555 at 10 yards, which works out to a BC of .020. I was pleasantly surprised that the BC was that high for a wadcutter. (All shots for all tests were at 10 pumps.)
Today I ran the same test with the VS pellets and got 582 at the muzzle (to be expected with a slightly heavier pellet) and 542 at 10 yards, for a BC of .018! :o How can a high-quality dome (Vortex Supremes were an FTT clone, made in Germany, unlike the clearly lesser Vortex Strikes that are made in Brazil) get a BC that is LESS than a wadcutter?
This means that they're not going to fight drop or drift any better, will they? :(
-
I hesitate to mention these because I don't think they are making them anymore, but H&N Sniper Mediums are the only pellets I would attempt to use at 40 yards in my 901. I'm not sure about the BC but I can tell you they drop less at 40 than lighter weight pellets.
-
This is a good reference for pellets and BCs.
https://hardairmagazine.com/ballistic-coefficients/ (https://hardairmagazine.com/ballistic-coefficients/)
-
HOSPassasin.
Not sure if this would apply I have a DP880, it has the Limiter Slot filled along with piston orings that are shimmed w threadtape. Pump Tube is sealed on w threadtape and Silicone Gasket Maker, Tapemodx115. Bolt oring is shimmed forward w threadtape.
Monstrum Dove-Picatinnyrail, medium rings, AG4x40mm, BR Adapter w threadcover stripper. With the rail and rings the Scope sits 2.1" high. The higher your scope is, the further your hit and rehit range will be. You can put a Picatinny Level on the rail behind the front ring, on other AGs I have them on, i take a peek and " level" on longer shots, ingore it on closer shots.
This 880 likes a number of different pellets < CPUM10.5gr / CPP10.5gr / HNFTT8.6gr/ CPD7.4gr./ RSD8 3gr. There are more pellets that i havent tried in it but these i found so far that work good for my AG.
I can switch between them< each requires a different sight setting. For now i have the RSD 8.3gr setup. This pellet has a low BC, which is ok for closer than 30yards, My Backyard has close to 30 to reach. I have target set at 15 yards another at 20yards and a Woodstump that stays at 27 yards.
10pumps, RWSDomes8.3gr, Initial sight in was at 15 yards. I got it to hit good, checked hits at 20yards, couple clicks to refine to get hits right above POA. Then once i got it to exact i shot 2 times at the 27yard stump. Righton hits. Entering numbers into Chairgun results say id have 2" drop by 40yards. The RSDomes have a Low BC of .013. CPDestroyers 7.4gr also low BC are very accurate and work good at less than 25 30 yards. I havent shot at 40 yet with the DP880 butif i wanted to i can but i would first change Sight in to HNFTT8.64gr<.022.BC , CPUM 10.5gr<.026.BC, CPP10.5gr < .023 - .024BC. These would more than likely hold their accuracy by 40yards with 1.4"-1.8" drop.
HN B10.6gr have a high BC, i have these but use them in other AGs. Havent tried them in the DP880. OkenoughfromMe [0_0]
NVak
-
If the BC testing was outdoors, and each pellet was tested on different days, changing wind conditions may have affected results.
-
HOSPassasin
Two days ago I took a small feathered pest at 35 yards. DP901 w LSF, RifleDestroyer Field 8.18gr. Monstrum dovetail to picrail base, medium rings and 4x40mm scope that was on the DP880. DP880 now wears a 4x32mm w tall rings.
First shot attemp crosshair placed ontop of the back, an inch low. Im not a Clicker, im a holdover- er. Using a Duplex reticle and low BC pellet i felt i needed to so i added 4 clicks up and put the croshair right on top of the back and send the pellet. A puff of feathers as the lilguy went down for the count.
5 yards to go to get to 40. I would Need a Mildot scope and good High BC pellets to make it easier to reach 40. By 40yards the DP901 and DP880 doesnt have much FPE left except for tiny feathers.. I set my DP901 back down to a 27yard rehit after taking down that 35 yard feathersbait shot.. 40yard with a .177 breakbarrel is NoProblem, but thats beside the point.
NVak
-
HOSPassasin
Two days ago I took a small feathered pest at 35 yards. DP901 w LSF, RifleDestroyer Field 8.18gr. Monstrum dovetail to picrail base, medium rings and 4x40mm scope that was on the DP880. DP880 now wears a 4x32mm w tall rings.
First shot attemp crosshair placed ontop of the back, an inch low. Im not a Clicker, im a holdover- er. Using a Duplex reticle and low BC pellet i felt i needed to so i added 4 clicks up and put the croshair right on top of the back and send the pellet. A puff of feathers as the lilguy went down for the count.
5 yards to go to get to 40. I would Need a Mildot scope and good High BC pellets to make it easier to reach 40. By 40yards the DP901 and DP880 doesnt have much FPE left except for tiny feathers.. I set my DP901 back down to a 27yard rehit after taking down that 35 yard feathersbait shot.. 40yard with a .177 breakbarrel is NoProblem, but thats beside the point.
NVak
A 35 yard hunting shot with an air rifle is reaching out there. There are things that can be done to extend the range and power of these guns to get to an effective 50 yard gun, but that's getting to ranges where it's rare to have the right conditions to reliably make that shot.
To get the range, you might try 12 pumps with heavier (10 grn) domed pellets. That should put you in the 11 FPE range and still have 7.5 or so FPE at 40 yards. If you really wanna dial it up, power mod it and get 15 FPE with heavy pellets (16 grn). That's good beyond 50 yards with power to spare (12.5 FPE @ 50). The BC on the heavies are way better and retain energy for longer distance. My 880/822 sight-in with power mod shooting heavy pellets is zero at 30. That gives me a 1/2" hold over at 35. So its basically point and click 10 to 30 and hold a fuz high at 35. That covers most hunting situations. With my mil dot scopes it works out to be 1 dot at 40, 2 dots at 45 and 3 at 50. I don't shoot past 50 even though the pellet still has energy to do the job, there are too many variables to reliably hold minute of squirrel head accuracy. I have taken a few at 50 yards from the back deck off the rail and sand bags with no wind, clean pass through the head on each. I've done that with a power modified 822, power modified 880, and 1977.
-
Pbawler,
Both DP901 and DP880 have the Limiter slot filled, along with supremely shimmed O-Rings, shimmed up and forward. Bolt oring is also shimmed forward. With modded pistons and 10 pumps, the DP880 gets 670fps with RSD 8.3gr. Havent checked the DP901 w RDF 8.18gr, but its close enough to have, with tall setup scopes a 14yard with 27yard rehit sightin and around .25"+ high at 20yard.
At the moment both DP are setup with low BC pellets, since there is not alot of shooting to do except backyard shots. When things warm and more shot opportunities present themselves in the form of prey,, both DPs will be setup with heavier pellets with alot better BC than the current closerange setup. Both DPs will put 5 shots of HNFTT 8.6gr and CPUM 10.5gr in Better than dimes at 27yards.
The 35 yard shot would have been abit easier with either C367 or a Win1977 and CPUM 10.5gr which both shoot very good with. C367 does around 760fps 8pumps with CPUM 10.5gr and has a NS4x32mm AO HMD Scope and medium rings. Win 1977 does around 720fps 10pumps with the same pellet and has a Win 4x32mm AO and medium rings. At the time i had just got done with sight in on the DP901 w 4x40mm when the 35yard presented itself.
One of my 1377w 14" barrel and LDC, retains air at 10 pumps with pellets lighter than The 8.6gr FTT. I vented the LDC in the second baffle with 2 holes using a 1/16" drill. Doing so helped a little with 8.3gr, 8.2gr and 7.9gr yet still retains a tiny puff. Dont want to vent further to use the lighter pellets. The 7.9grs do very good to 20 but opens groups by 27yards. That 1377 has its scope sitting 2.125" above the pellet. Flight pathe is 10yards and 27yards rehit with around .25"+ high at 20yards with FTT 8.6gr.
For now my DP901 and DP880 will be 30 yard guns and the C367 and Win1977 will be 35+. Beyond 35- 40yards ill reach for one of my breakbarrels in .177 for small- medium things. A C362 with heavy pellets is good for things larger than the small stuff. For larger "Things" ill use one of my .22 breakbarrels. Good to 40+yards with most of them. Larger and further things, is when one of the two .25s <1PCP,1Gasram> come out.
Today, I made the same 35yard DP901 shot, this time with FTT 8.6 gr and 27 yard zero. Same POA placement on top of back at 35 yards. Feathers explode,, twice. The RDF 8.18 gr are super accurate, but with same POA at 35 had the pellets right at their feet. The HNFTT 8.6gr with same Aim hit them right in the back < Heart /Lungs>.
I might try one of your Modded Pistons at a later time. Excellentwork you do on the DPs,
Pbawler.
NVak
-
Ill leave the rest of this type of feathersbait alone. They feed at landfills and spread their acidicpoo in gutters and around town.. ill wait for something furry, or other feathersbait, itll be awhile till any type of feathersoup show up. I wanted to try the AG and the two pellet types at 35 yards. OP inspired me to stretch a little further with the DPs. I know i can make good DP 30yard headshots on Anything,, 35,, with good pellet,, just a little hold over.
NVak
-
Well, it is quite 'simple' I think.
The Supremes, as a domed pellet and a true FTT variant, probably provides the better bc results at pellet speeds of between 700 and 800. Where as a wadcutter is basically developed for lower powered airguns that indeed are operating around the 500 to 600 range.
In other words, the Supremes are more like a 12-14fpe range pellet and the wadcutter more like a 5-6fpe range pellet.
-
I think your unexpected results are related to testing at a relatively short range. I suspect if you did the same test at 40 yards your results would show the domes have a better BC. If your chrono survives 😀
-
Dome Pellets work in all FPE. You can even shoot wadcutters in 700 - 800fps and get good results though limited in range due to lower BC. Lately ive been shooting some wadcutters in a few Airguns for less than 30 yard shots with good results. When more hunting opportunties are around, ill switch back to the High BC Domes to shoot dimes on Game... >=>
Just shoot whatever groups best to the ranges youl be shooting in whatever airgun you have.... >=>
NVak
-
I'm seeing some good accuracy at 40 yards pushing RWS Supermags at 1000 fps. I don't know how fast they're moving when they get there but they sure smack my spinners hard. This is probably the exception rather than the rule though. All of my .177s shoot them well regardless of speed.