GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Crosman Airguns => Topic started by: Spooner on January 25, 2022, 01:03:21 PM
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I finished this up this morning. I will need to use shorter screws, but this is what I came up with...
(https://i.imgur.com/wfQOYu9.jpg)
This works, and it works very well. You can either use the stock or MAP trigger with the spring under the lower adjustment screw, or use the lighter valve spring over the screw and against the back edge of the Baker trigger. I tried it both ways and either method works perfectly without binding. Drilling right through the center of where that rib is puts the set screws exactly where they need to be to engage the backside of the trigger.
I drilled and tapped for an M3x.50 Allen head bolt but you can use the 4-40 or whatever you prefer. There is room for any number of choices. I actually notched the rib in two places. The thing I did not like about this is that the frame without the rib is very thin. You can get a few threads in there but that is about it. Once you find your set point for each screw, loctite is definitely needed.
This was just an experiment to see if it would even work. ;)
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To add strength to you modification you could consider gluing a nut to the inside of each hole or adding a thin strip of metal glued to the housing and tapped to the appropriate size hole. Of course your basic screws may never strip.
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I'm using metal filled epoxy on the back then will drill/tap for the Baker screws.
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So how do you plan to address those screws sticking out the back? There is no clearance in the stock for them. Do you plan to cut them off once final adjustments are made. If so, this would not be considered an adjustable trigger... more like "set it and forget it".
I'm not picking on your mod, just asking questions.... ;) My ideas are the same... just a one time adjustment then lock it down.
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That is really cool! Avator, I think that is the way you'd have to do this. You could easily file a flathead slot in the back of the screw after cutting it off, and you could let it stick out as much as the original rib for a little adjustability. Maybe it would be possible to epoxy on some extra material after cutting the notches and before doing the holes, for the extra thread engagement surface.
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I agree. However, I wonder if the adjustment screws provided with the Baker brass trigger may be better suited? I wonder if it would be better not to 'notch' the rib. Just drill and tap a smaller hole for the Baker screws?
Once length is determined, the other end of the screw could be cut off to leave the factory slot?
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And further thoughts...
If using the Baker trigger, the lower screw could have dual purpose...
1) As intended as the over travel stop.
2) A guide for the spring to insure alignment to the rear of the trigger.
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LOL.... sorry, I just can't help myself...
On further thinking..
The lower screw will be a set it and forget it... the over travel stop will not change once determined. The larger screw may be better suited to 'guide' the spring.
Only the upper screw would need to be adjustable to suit the shooter's first stage pull length preference.
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Just use shorter allen set screws that will not extend outside the rib......the stock won't know the difference!
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'zactly Ron. I was just thinking that the small Baker screws would leave more meat on the table... ;)
Remember, OP said after makking the notch in the rib, the frame was only thick enough for a couple threads.
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Difference folks have different ways of shooting.. for instance, I am always reminding Betty Lou to squeeze the trigger as opposed to snatching it.
If there are only a couple threads in the lower stop screw, a ham fingered shooter would most likely strip it out in short order.
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'zactly Ron. I was just thinking that the small Baker screws would leave more meat on the table... ;)
Remember, OP said after makking the notch in the rib, the frame was only thick enough for a couple threads.
IIRC that back fib is only about 1/8" wide, and the Baker screws about .110 OD of the threads..... not leaving much meat there neither......
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Yup.... definitely more R&D is needed... ;)
Which is why I stopped at just using the Baker trigger, the oversized spring and some clean up and lube of contact surfaces.... I want to see what others are doing before I apply non reversible mods.... especially on this gun whereas trigger group replacements are not yet available.
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Guys... I'm at my desk at work and don't have a gun in front of me so I'm kinda playing out of memory here...
Don't the stock have a 'pocket' in it for that rib? Would that also lend support to the rib once drilled?
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This was just an experiment, to see if it were possible? ;)
As said above, the stock doesn't know the difference. My MAP trigger group has the screws extended into this area and the assembly fits inside the stock with no interference from it. Yeah... I definitely need a shorter screws, or maybe widen the notches so that the head of the screws go against the frame. That would put shorter screws farther in. These were just what I had on hand. I will look for some M3 set screws at work... those will work out better.
I looked at the Baker adjustment screws. The rib is too narrow for them. Also, even with the rib notched... the top screw would not have gone in far enough to properly adjust the trigger travel back to the safety, or at least it looked like it was going to be too short when I held them against the frame.
Yep, like I mentioned, the bottom screw can be used as a guide for the lighter larger diameter valve spring to ride against the back of the Baker trigger. That part worked out really well and there was no binding. The spring slipped over the bolt and the bottom channel supported it. I didn't try the Baker spring though.
Adding a strip of metal or using the metal filled epoxy are great ideas. I have M3 nuts for the screws but to use them, I would of have to notch the two ribs on the inside a little. I set the screws a little too high in the rib. Setting them a little lower would solve that though. This was the one part I did not care for. The fact that the wall of the trigger guard was so thin. The Disco trigger has raised areas on the outside of the frame that are tapped into. You could always make the notches wider, put a bubble of the epoxy on the outside, then tap through it? This is really the part that needs to be figured out. With only a few threads in there, Bill is right. One hard pull could ruin the threads on that bottom screw.
Definitely more R&D needed. ;)
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Thanks Robert, I'm sorry I didn't read carefully enough.
So, you are saying there is clearance in the stock for screw heads? If so, this is great news.
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Thanks Robert, I'm sorry I didn't read carefully enough.
So, you are saying there is clearance in the stock for screw heads? If so, this is great news.
no, you are right about that Bill. The center rib in the stock will allow for clearance as long as the screws do not extend out further than the rib of the trigger frame. The MAP trigger group does not have the rib. I do know that there is at least some additional clearance because the bottom screw had backed out pretty far and I was able to install it without problems, but it comes down using the right length set screws and notching the trigger frame rib, unless you modify or remove that middle rib in the stock. It is not ideal. Either way something has to be modified in a way that is not reversible to add these screws.
I am wondering if the stock Disco trigger frame could be used? It would have the holes already there. As long as the raised bumps for the screws are not taller than the rib in the 362 trigger frame... it might work? You would still have to drill and tap for the 1/4-20 hole in the front for the stock mounting bolt, but it would keep the stock 362 trigger group unmodified and be completely reversible.
This Map trigger group could have gone completely sideways for me... I got lucky, lol. ;)
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I fully intend to revisit the trigger group when I get the time. It appears that Hyundai has received a shipment of micro chips and plans full production for Saturday.
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I fully intend to revisit the trigger group when I get the time. It appears that Hyundai has received a shipment of micro chips and plans full production for Saturday.
What kind of job gets in the way of our beloved hobby ;D? Oh, yeah, I got one of those too, lol. ;D
I think my focus is going to be how to increase the thickness of the back of the frame. Some great ideas were tossed out there. 8)
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Nice work, Robert. Like it should have come from the factory - but then it is a $100 product.
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The 2260 trigger pack has the pockets for the screws FYI. Not sure if it is the same part # as the Disco though. but fits the 362.
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The 2260 trigger pack has the pockets for the screws FYI. Not sure if it is the same part # as the Disco though. but fits the 362.
I assume you just have to drill and tap a hole like is found on the c362 trigger housing?
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The 2260 trigger pack has the pockets for the screws FYI. Not sure if it is the same part # as the Disco though. but fits the 362.
Ordered from Crosman, just the frame and cover would be very inexpensive too. I will check that out... thanks James 😎.
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The 2260 trigger pack has the pockets for the screws FYI. Not sure if it is the same part # as the Disco though. but fits the 362.
Discover, Maximus, 2260 use the same trigger case -- Part number 262B001
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The 2260 trigger pack has the pockets for the screws FYI. Not sure if it is the same part # as the Disco though. but fits the 362.
Have you confirmed that it fits the 362?
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I'm going to use a small hone stone on my trigger mecha today, I'll be taking it apart again to try out a modified 2240 bolt probe and do some chrony numbers on it, probably later I'll do some lucky 13 target shooting with it too.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=182911.0;attach=388753;image)
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The 2260 trigger pack has the pockets for the screws FYI. Not sure if it is the same part # as the Disco though. but fits the 362.
Have you confirmed that it fits the 362?
I just checked the EVP and it looks to be exact both internally and externally except that it has the raised areas for the adjustment screws. It also looks like the mounting hole for the stock is already in the front housing. I asked them if this came with the cover and adjustment screws and she said... "it says complete casing". I don't know if that really means the cover and screws, but I am going to find out. It was $3.55. I paid more for shipping ($4.00) but still... $7.55 total is well worth having a closer look at. ;)
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Indeed.
I have one or 2 of those on various 'lego' builds... I guess I should have a look as well.
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Hmmmm that's VERY interesting, I plan on calling Crosman soon to order some parts for a few different guns, I've already downloaded the EVP manual for the 2260 and I'll include that as well. That's one thing that I've always enjoyed and liked is the fact you can actually talk to a human being on the phone to take you're order, it's always been a pleasant experience dealing with Crosman that way.
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Yes Sir, along with cheap and fast shipping. Crosman is to parts as PA is to pellet packing... ;D
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Hmmmm that's VERY interesting, I plan on calling Crosman soon to order some parts for a few different guns, I've already downloaded the EVP manual for the 2260 and I'll include that as well. That's one thing that I've always enjoyed and liked is the fact you can actually talk to a human being on the phone to take you're order, it's always been a pleasant experience dealing with Crosman that way.
They are awesomely nice people ;D. You just can beat their prices either, and with so many of their parts cross-working with so many of their guns... it is win-win. I really love lego guns, lol. 8)
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I think that the 2260/Disco frame would work, but be aware that it's made of plastic, and the 362 frame is cast metal. I prefer metal when possible, but the plastic has worked fine for years.
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I think that the 2260/Disco frame would work, but be aware that it's made of plastic, and the 362 frame is cast metal. I prefer metal when possible, but the plastic has worked fine for years.
Thanks for the heads up ;). I was not aware that it was plastic. It was cheap, probably why, but worth looking at.
I'm gonna re- tap the original for 6-32 and revisit strengthening options. ;)
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Still curious and interesting that after years of the plastic molded trigger case (2260, Discovery, Maximus), there is a change to die-cast metal on the 362 but without the area that can be drilled and taped for adjustment screws.
Probably a new supplier which made Crosman an offer they could not resist. :D
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Still curious and interesting that after years of the plastic molded trigger case (2260, Discovery, Maximus), there is a change to die-cast metal on the 362 but without the area that can be drilled and taped for adjustment screws.
Probably a new supplier which made Crosman an offer they could not resist. :D
Pot metal/zamak looks great powder-coated.
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Still curious and interesting that after years of the plastic molded trigger case (2260, Discovery, Maximus), there is a change to die-cast metal on the 362 but without the area that can be drilled and taped for adjustment screws.
Probably a new supplier which made Crosman an offer they could not resist. :D
I found that very strange as well. Especially on what is really a budget gun.
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Haven't got the 2260 frame kit yet, but went back to the original one. I re-tapped the two holes for 6-32 and put in proper set screws. The 6-32 set screws are much more stable for the thin back wall and I believe they will be fine with long term use. They do not wiggle around near as much, and the shorter ones I used both went in below the rib line when adjusted. I looked at using an aluminum reinforcement, cut to fit and JB welded in. I looked at some other alternatives for this as well. Anything put on the inside with the lower screw would have interfered with the trigger spring, so those ideas were a no go.
The reality is, options are limited. Many of you have some great ideas which will probably work better than this. This was the best I could come up with. It works well and it allows the option for using the Baker trigger with the bigger spring behind it, or the original spring below with the triggers that have the nub.
Our wifi is down due to weather. As soon as it is up again, I have a picture to post that shows how this turned out. ;)
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Here is the picture...
(https://i.imgur.com/WIZ7PDg.jpg)
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And here with the Baker Brass trigger...
(https://i.imgur.com/KhNWVLq.jpg)
This was interesting. I was able to slip the Baker lighter spring over the set screw and use the set screw as a guide. The set screw and the spring seemed to be "made for each other". I worked the trigger a number of times and there was no binding nor did the spring come off the back edge of the trigger. I also tried this with a lighter valve spring clipped down to size and it also worked perfectly. I went with the Baker spring. I did some polishing of the sear and shimmed the sideways slop out of it, oiled the pins and adjusted the screws... very smooth!
Almost forgot... The MAP trigger by itself would be a drop-in replacement with the correct spring in the correct location. This gives three options to the stock trigger group. 8)
This will be a good backup in case anything ever happens with my MAP trigger group. ;)
This is a wrap for me... it works. 8)
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Good job Robert... thanks for your efforts.
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Just a quick update...
My 2260 trigger frame came today from Crosman. As I suspected, no screws or cover, just the frame. The hole is there for mounting but the nut was not included either. It has that rib in it like the metal 362 frame but where the screws are, they widened it with round areas to give support for the screws. It is plastic, not something I would use, but it is set up identical to the 362 metal one. In a pinch, it would work just fine. ;)
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Huh. My 362 has a plastic trigger casing. from the factory.
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Huh. My 362 has a plastic trigger casing. from the factory.
Interesting. At first we all though it was plastic but it ended up being cast metal. What serial number is your 362? If it is plastic, it is either a mistake by Crosman or a design change they didn't mention? As far as I know... no one else who bought one, got one with a plastic trigger frame.
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My bad, it's metal, just the trigger box side plate is plastic. I think that since the trigger box assembly is used to bolt the action to the stock, plastic there would be too flexible.