GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: 45flint on January 18, 2022, 07:45:02 PM
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I’m posting this new gun in vintage given it really is a new take on the vintage pumper? Not available till May but say: 15 pumps 850 FPS. Fascinating take on a new pumping mechanism? Say equal effect every pump? If it has to be moved so be it!
https://youtu.be/qtvCB2CR3xo
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Already have one pre ordered ;D
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Is that "up to" 850 fps with alloy pellets in .177? I'm amazed how people line up for new airguns when they are rushed to market and always need bugs worked out. It's like paying somebody to kick you in the n#t$.
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Is that "up to" 850 fps with alloy pellets in .177? I'm amazed how people line up for new airguns when they are rushed to market and always need bugs worked out. It's like paying somebody to kick you in the n#t$.
And you have to pump 15 times for that too.
I wonder what a blue streak reduced to .177 would do with alloy pellets on 8 pumps?
Why would they make a 15 pump gun ?
So many people these days want the most power possible and also dislike pumping a bunch every time.
I have to think they should have used a much larger diameter tube, then they could get those numbers on 8-10 pumps and that wouldn't be so bad.
I understand that it won't be so bad when the pumping effort remains the same, but I find that to be a downside myself.
How am I supposed to know that my gun is building pressure like it should if the pumping effort never increase ?
Regardless of any of that however I'm in the vintage airgun gate for a reason, I love my vintage pumpers and really have no need or desire to embrace anything technically new
I like pumpers as they are because I find them to be a mechanically perfect device , I have no desire to fundamentally change anything about the multi stroke pneumatic airgun.
I'm sure it'll sell, I'm not interested but it will get a lot of buzz I'm sure.
Just like the cr362 seems to be getting for some reason , I guess a lot of people really are obsessed with velocity numbers.
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I think the reduced effort is a big deal? You have to about kill yourself to pump 8 pumps into a vintage rifle? Some of us aren’t as young as we used to be?
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I for one don’t mind seeing improvements being made to old school pumpers, when done right the upgraded pumpers have an appeal that attracts the younger generations to the sport/hobby, this in turn helps assure the survivability of the pumper design. This design has a look that on first glimpse looks like a Sheridan Model A or B Supergrade, incorporates the traditional features once again of the vintage Crosman pumpers and similar pumping mannerisms of the S&W Model 77A.
The three part pump linkage idea seems more gimmickry, but there may be some advantage to the design, I just don’t see it at the moment. Here again the appeal is to new users and bells and whistles sell a lot of items these days and did back in the day as well.
What is not so new is the concept of an easier pumping experience since it takes 15 pumps to reach full power, in the 1970’s the Smith & Wesson Model 77A, had a minimum of 3/5 pumps and a maximum of 20 pumps for full power,and it was not any harder to pump from pump 1 all the way to pump 20, or so it seems, there is some slight increase in resistance but not a lot. What many did not like was the effort to pump 20 time for that full power. Like other pumpers most will find thier preferred number of pumps somewhere below maximum and may only have the need to pump to the pumpers maximum for occasional hunt/pesting or wanting to stream the legs once in a while.
As far as the repeater capabilities, it’s not for me but is something my teenage boys look at and have yet to find one they feel can be called predictable and reliable based on reviews of those that have come to market in recent years. We are sure there is one out there and one day they will find one.
Again I don’t mind old becoming new again, its like car manufactures modernizing the lines of the muscle cars we grew up with, purist don’t like them but it bought a whole new generation into the modern muscle car era and also helped increase the value of the classic muscle cars. Could it happen with air rifle, only time will tell.
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I think the reduced effort is a big deal? You have to about kill yourself to pump 8 pumps into a vintage rifle? Some of us aren’t as young as we used to be?
I don't pump more than 5 times myself, but that's beside the point.
I'm not saying reduced effort isn't a big deal, but the fact that it doesn't increase in resistance is what I don't like the sound of.
The daisy 880 is a breeze to pump, but it gets a little harder to pump as you go which is how you know it's building pressure.
A gun that actually looks like a classic pumper which just happens to be easier to pump sounds great, but this looks more like a pumper version of some kind of current PCP.
The gun has a place I'm sure, but to me it just does not bring to mind any classic pumpers I'm familiar with.
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I'd put it on the "maybe" list after waiting a few months for the verdicts to come in. On one hand it's wood. Hopefully the moderator is functional. The original Dragon Fly had the typical cheap Chinese QC. I'm relatively young and built like Shrek, so pumping isn't an issue...yet.
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I leave it up to Lizzie and Longhunter to decide between themselves, it's not vintage by no means.
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As far as the repeater capabilities, it’s not for me but is something my teenage boys look at
When the first edition of this rifle emerged the manufacturer, using the similar receiver of other guns in their lineup, was able to tout the repeating rifle functionality.
But while not immediately dismissing the purchase of it, I failed to see any tangible benefit of a magazine repeater MSP. Manually inserting a pellet takes less time than the action of several pumps necessary to stop a charging rabbit or squirrel. :D
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I remember seeing the Mk1 come out a few years ago and I watched with interest as I think it was the first new MP rifle on the market in a number of years. The reviews I saw did indeed complain about excessive pumping forced needed after the first few pumps.
I am curious to see how this one does. I suspect that if it can shoot at three, like most other mp designs, the increase of fps per pump will start decreasing by 6-8 pumps. Being able to go to 15 almost sounds more like a pumping mechanism durability thing? We shall see.
As for the magazine/multi shot capability, the main advantage I can see is while in the field having a number of shots in a nice ready to go container of sorts. I suppose it is also possible a tuner might be able to breakup the 15pumps into two or three low powered shots. I think there was an oldy that was designed to do two? B.B. Pelletier I think blogged about it years ago.
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I remember seeing the Mk1 come out a few years ago and I watched with interest as I think it was the first new MP rifle on the market in a number of years. The reviews I saw did indeed complain about excessive pumping forced needed after the first few pumps.
I am curious to see how this one does. I suspect that if it can shoot at three, like most other mp designs, the increase of fps per pump will start decreasing by 6-8 pumps. Being able to go to 15 almost sounds more like a pumping mechanism durability thing? We shall see.
As for the magazine/multi shot capability, the main advantage I can see is while in the field having a number of shots in a nice ready to go container of sorts. I suppose it is also possible a tuner might be able to breakup the 15pumps into two or three low powered shots. I think there was an oldy that was designed to do two? B.B. Pelletier I think blogged about it years ago.
It's certainly an interesting rifle. Seeing as there are five pins in the linkage, wear will likely become an issue. Especially with the fifteen-stroke limit. With .002" slop in each link, that would add up to .010" total and that will increase as things wear in. Stacked tolerances can make things really sloppy. That said, I like the system. We'll just have to see how well it works.
I'd think that they would offer a pellet tray/guide to use instead of the magazine for us old-school shooters. I guess we'll see.
Ride on,
J~
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Tom Gaylord got one (in .22caliber) the other day and has started reviewing its performance. Apparently he's becoming a fan.
He hasn't published anything on how accurate it is yet, but it looks to be promising. Although it's loud without the muffler, it hits really hard.
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/02/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-one/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/02/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-one/)
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/02/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-two/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/02/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-two/)
Ride on,
J~
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Tom Gaylord got one (in .22caliber) the other day and has started reviewing its performance. Apparently he's becoming a fan.
He hasn't published anything on how accurate it is yet, but it looks to be promising. Although it's loud without the muffler, it hits really hard.
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/02/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-one/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/02/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-one/)
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/02/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-two/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/02/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-two/)
Ride on,
J~
“BB has a thing for multi-pumps that are well made and this one is second only to my Sheridan Supergrade in terms of build quality.” That’s a statement? Silencer fitting is huge given the noise of pumpers.
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“BB has a thing for multi-pumps that are well made and this one is second only to my Sheridan Supergrade in terms of build quality.” That’s a statement? Silencer fitting is huge given the noise of pumpers.
Well... If we can't all have a Super Grade, we can at least have the next best thing! ;) If they put one out in 5mm, I'll likely be interested. If it's accurate.
101 Db is a lot of noise!
Ride on,
J~
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I’m sort of a pumper crank. I want one but I’m gonna wait and see what kind of criticism it gets. I like the wood and steel construction but not the idea of pumping fifteen times to get full power. I’ve been comparing the published stats for this gun and the Crosman 362. After applying some real world corrections for advertising hyperbole I deduce that the two guns are roughly comparable in power. Hmmm. . . A 15 pump wood and steel gun versus a 10 pump plastic one with a $100 price difference? I’ll be getting the Crosman first but the Dragonfly is definitely on the list.
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;D I'm the sucker that pre ordered one so reports to follow ;)
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I respect Tom Gaylord but in this type of review it seems that he is part reviewer and part salesman? He’s being paid by the seller so in the end how critical can he be. Still this to me is the first pumpers that seems to have real advantages over vintage types. The 15 pumps is really 8 pumps after that the power increase in his data is so small, not really worth it. Less effort for a old man! Add the silencer fitting. Only new rifle a vintage nerd has ever been interested in. A bit compelling if Tom’s description of build quality is accurate? Would be awesome if Pyramid Air had one at Findlay to look at.
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I respect Tom Gaylord but in this type of review it seems that he is part reviewer and part salesman? He’s being paid by the seller so in the end how critical can he be. Still this to me is the first pumpers that seems to have real advantages over vintage types. The 15 pumps is really 8 pumps after that the power increase in his data is so small, not really worth it. Less effort for a old man! Add the silencer fitting. Only new rifle a vintage nerd has ever been interested in. A bit compelling if Tom’s description of build quality is accurate? Would be awesome if Pyramid Air had one at Findlay to look at.
Yeah Steve, it lost me too going from 8 to 15. Hardly worth the effort and at 8 pumps it’s not a powerhouse. Nice rifle overall, but, I’ll stick to the oldies.
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That doesn’t do it for me.
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With two 'Dans, one Steroided, one stock & two 342s, one Steroided, one stock, I'm good for now. ;D
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Build quality will be crucial but this rifle is cheaper than a used Sheridan and with more features?
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The aspen/freedom this pump is modeled after was well known for being able to pump up to 300 bar with ease.
The weak point of those guns was the o ring most likely due to the amount of pressure.
I’m assuming this one operates at a lower pressure.
Just throwing it out there, the pump system is not a gimmick, and has been proven. The weak point in those guns was not the linkage, but o rings overheating for those of us that pumped them up too fast.
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Tom's latest episode on the Dragonfly is up.
Wow. I wish I could shoot that well with open sights.
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/02/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-three/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/02/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-three/)
Be safe,
J~
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You guys are making it hard not to buy....a Dragonfly.
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Part four of the review is up. The accuracy results at 25-yards are very interesting.
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/02/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-four/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/02/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-four/)
Ride on,
J~
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Just hope they have one at Findlay to look at? I just need to hold one before I buy?
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I'm sure they didn't just hand Tom Gaylord one from the pile, he alluded to that himself. Cleaned, lubed, polished barrel, debited....etc.
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I'm sure they didn't just hand Tom Gaylord one from the pile, he alluded to that himself. Cleaned, lubed, polished barrel, debited....etc.
I wondered it the silencer fitting will be on the one they sell to the public?
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And...
Part five is up. Interesting how the velocity has increased as the rifle has broken in. 18-foot-pounds? Wow.
I'd imagine that that will happen regardless of where in the pile each one comes from. And I agree about the pellet tray and magazine comment.
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/02/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-five/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/02/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-five/)
Ride on,
J~