GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Crosman Airguns => Topic started by: Eagle Eye on January 18, 2022, 01:46:00 PM
-
With the new Air Venturi / Seneca Dragonfly Mark II just being announced where does this leave the future sales of our Crosman / Benjamin pumper rifles? The features included on the Seneca are improvements a lot of us have been asking from Crosman for years.
The biggest being include a metal breech with a dovetail or picatinny mount for a scope. We don't want a proprietary barrel mounting kit, we wanted a proper non proprietary breech for mounting scopes and rear sights. Crosman has been manufacturering steel breeches for years but they have continued to play the game of buy this extra piece for extra money aftermarket or in the custom shop for too many years. This one piece with a proper common sized dovetail mount should have been added and included with at least every rfile produced for the last 20 years. And in the last five years made to fit a small Marauder style magazine. Instead the Crosman customer has had to find and buy aftermarket products like the GravMag. Truely frustrating because I would like to keep the American manufacturering jobs not just the shell office.
This lack of making small improvement to the rifles and pistols that use this platform over the years may cause the loss of our beloved Crosman / Benjamin / Sheridan air rifles. It's so sad to watch bad management decisions continue to cost Amaerican jobs. I watched Sheridan fall locally when they were bought out. Then Benjamin fell and if Crosman doesn't improve and innovate. Are they not far behind?
-
Have a Dragonfly II preordered, but I will not have much fun tinkering with it, any luck it will be point and shoot. SPA makes some nice airguns.
-
The Dragonfly II is at a price point comparable to the 392s, but double that of the 362.
And, as Mr. James pointed out, not much tinkering to be done on the DF II (Deuce)
I do have the original DF, and it takes 2 men and a small boy to pump past about 4 strokes...........
-
There are some Dragonfly advantages - but the front end looks a bit flimsy. Especially if pumping is as difficult as mentioned above.
The price point of the C362 (I do not have one) protects it very well.
The 392 market is , at least a bit, "retro". And I like old 1960's Crosman guns, but the current 392, Maximus, Discovery, and 2260 triggers are poor. Not unexpected that the 362 is similar.
Of the three (DF, 362, 392) I would buy the 362 and make it "mine" for another $50.
-
I'm pretty much done buying SPA products and I have my reasons.
-
If the mass market opportunity for pumpers would be really that bad... Would you think that Crosman still launched this new 362 then ?
-
With the new Air Venturi / Seneca Dragonfly Mark II just being announced where does this leave the future sales of our Crosman / Benjamin pumper rifles? The features included on the Seneca are improvements a lot of us have been asking from Crosman for years.
The biggest being include a metal breech with a dovetail or picatinny mount for a scope. We don't want a proprietary barrel mounting kit, we wanted a proper non proprietary breech for mounting scopes and rear sights. Crosman has been manufacturering steel breeches for years but they have continued to play the game of buy this extra piece for extra money aftermarket or in the custom shop for too many years. This one piece with a proper common sized dovetail mount should have been added and included with at least every rfile produced for the last 20 years. And in the last five years made to fit a small Marauder style magazine. Instead the Crosman customer has had to find and buy aftermarket products like the GravMag. Truely frustrating because I would like to keep the American manufacturering jobs not just the shell office.
This lack of making small improvement to the rifles and pistols that use this platform over the years may cause the loss of our beloved Crosman / Benjamin / Sheridan air rifles. It's so sad to watch bad management decisions continue to cost Amaerican jobs. I watched Sheridan fall locally when they were bought out. Then Benjamin fell and if Crosman doesn't improve and innovate. Are they not far behind?
I have a different take on the issue. I use airguns as entertainment and therapy, the tinkering part is also a piece of that entertainment so as I look at a $200 gun vs a $100 gun that is also a Lego gun with hundreds of interchangeable parts available, I tend to lean towards the gun that encourages a longer effect.
If I shoot a mediocre gun with so-so accuracy, I'll get bored and it becomes a closet queen. If I can tweak and mod, that boredom is delayed years or even a lifetime.
The 362 will keep me entertained for a long while. ;)
-
I suspect the days of the 39x guns are numbered. I'd give them a year, two years tops. I also expect the price for the 362 to increase significantly.
-
I suspect the days of the 39x guns are numbered. I'd give them a year, two years tops. I also expect the price for the 362 to increase significantly.
Not sure on the latter, but yes on the former.
It's low production, uses solder instead of screws so repair-ability suffers as well as production cost, low demand item that won't fit in a big box store.
-
i feel the 362 was made to phase out the 392 altogether.
crosman is a universally recognized name for pumpers IMO. but the market for folks who want to tinker etc. may be smaller than some think. i think the majority of folks these guns are made for are to ppl who hand them to a kid or just start shooting.
will be hard to beat daisy and crosman name recognition wise, but if you need to go off brand to get wood furniture, and it works well who knows what will happen
-
The Dragonfly II is at a price point comparable to the 392s, but double that of the 362.
And, as Mr. James pointed out, not much tinkering to be done on the DF II (Deuce)
I do have the original DF, and it takes 2 men and a small boy to pump past about 4 strokes...........
check their promo vid out. looks like the pump is made to work similar to the aspen/freedom which was notoriously easy to pump for the pressure it reached (250 bar)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtvCB2CR3xo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtvCB2CR3xo)
-
I suspect the days of the 39x guns are numbered. I'd give them a year, two years tops. I also expect the price for the 362 to increase significantly.
It may but they may have different offerings such as a steel breech, metal trigger, wood stock, etc. The real money maker is parts and longevity. How many here have several Lego guns? How many still shoot? How many parts just sit in a box.
This may be the "One pumper to rule them all"
....or not...
-
I do have the original DF, and it takes 2 men and a small boy to pump past about 4 strokes...........
Me too, and mine is a beast to pump too. I think I know how to fix it, but I haven't been into it yet.
At 6.5 lbs, the new version is getting away from what I like about an airgun. Light weight. I still will probably check it out though, because I'm a sucker for a pumper ;D
-
That video really caught my interest. I then read about the gun on PyramidAir, and I got to thinking - 15 pumps? The max velocity looks nice ( I was looking at .22 cal. - 730 fps with 11.9 grains = 14.08 ft. lbs., so a heavier pellet will get even more power. How much, I don't know. Sounds good, but wait! It takes 15 pumps to get there? Almost double the max pumps of a benji or sheridan? I'll wait to see what kind of power it gets on 8 pumps.
Very nice looking gun, I'll bet the accuracy is good, and it looks like they solved the free floatiing barrel issue that many objected to on the first iteration of this gun. AND, looks like you could easily put a dovetail type Williams peep sight on it.
2K1TJ has a point about the weight. Not too bad a weight, but I really like the 5# or so weight of the old time benji/sheridans.
Still, I'm going to keep an eye on this one.
-
I look at the Crosman lego guns as the 10/22s of the airgun world. There are tons of aftermarket parts and endless ways to customize them. I think the 362 will be with us for a long time at this price point.
-
The 'new' 392 being replaced? The one with the ugly stock? That one?
Of course its being replaced. It's being replaced by the 362.
Wood stock Benji 392's will likely increase in price. I know I'm not ever going to sell my peep sighted (with the 0.150 aperture), 392. Even though my new 362 is going to become my main air gun (quite possibly for the rest of my life), I'll never let go of my 392.
Nor will I be letting go of my legos either.....
Have fun with the Dragonfly, guys. I'm going to be having way too much fun with my 362 to even think about one.
-
I do have the original DF, and it takes 2 men and a small boy to pump past about 4 strokes...........
Me too, and mine is a beast to pump too. I think I know how to fix it, but I haven't been into it yet.
At 6.5 lbs, the new version is getting away from what I like about an airgun. Light weight. I still will probably check it out though, because I'm a sucker for a pumper ;D
I may end up getting one just because I already have the PCP pistol and rifle version. The pump linkage looks novel, and it is much easier to put on optics right out of the box compared to the c362 or 392s. If the DF II can make 16+ FPE it will be a winner to me, especially with the handsome German Beech stock. The stock on my CR600/Stormrider hybrid is beautiful and every bit as nice looking as the stock on our Eagle Claw.
-
15 pumps yes, but they say every pump will seem to be the same effort. 8)
-
I do have the original DF, and it takes 2 men and a small boy to pump past about 4 strokes...........
Me too, and mine is a beast to pump too. I think I know how to fix it, but I haven't been into it yet.
At 6.5 lbs, the new version is getting away from what I like about an airgun. Light weight. I still will probably check it out though, because I'm a sucker for a pumper ;D
I may end up getting one just because I already have the PCP pistol and rifle version. The pump linkage looks novel, and it is much easier to put on optics right out of the box compared to the c362 or 392s. If the DF II can make 16+ FPE it will be a winner to me, especially with the handsome German Beech stock. The stock on my CR600/Stormrider hybrid is beautiful and every bit as nice looking as the stock on our Eagle Claw.
easy to put on optics AND a moderator! comes pre threaded. i feel like they are building what people have been asking for for a long time
-
What I find the most interesting is that you really dont have to close the pump handle (if the video is accurate) as the piston stops at about 60 degrees from the horizontal. The remaining motion just folds the pump handle.
Or am I mistaken?
-
What I find the most interesting is that you really dont have to close the pump handle (if the video is accurate) as the piston stops at about 60 degrees from the horizontal. The remaining motion just folds the pump handle.
Or am I mistaken?
That's how it 'pears to me......
-
I do have the original DF, and it takes 2 men and a small boy to pump past about 4 strokes...........
Me too, and mine is a beast to pump too. I think I know how to fix it, but I haven't been into it yet.
At 6.5 lbs, the new version is getting away from what I like about an airgun. Light weight. I still will probably check it out though, because I'm a sucker for a pumper ;D
I may end up getting one just because I already have the PCP pistol and rifle version. The pump linkage looks novel, and it is much easier to put on optics right out of the box compared to the c362 or 392s. If the DF II can make 16+ FPE it will be a winner to me, especially with the handsome German Beech stock. The stock on my CR600/Stormrider hybrid is beautiful and every bit as nice looking as the stock on our Eagle Claw.
easy to put on optics AND a moderator! comes pre threaded. i feel like they are building what people have been asking for for a long time
I already have a stack of o rings, sear pins, probes, handles, etc. My wife will probably think I'm weird, but I missed out on the last DF
-
I look at the Crosman lego guns as the 10/22s of the airgun world. There are tons of aftermarket parts and endless ways to customize them. I think the 362 will be with us for a long time at this price point.
+1
-
I look at the Crosman lego guns as the 10/22s of the airgun world. There are tons of aftermarket parts and endless ways to customize them. I think the 362 will be with us for a long time at this price point.
+1
Indeed! I have one with zero original parts left so I built the original again from those parts and gave it to my son. ::) :o
-
What I find the most interesting is that you really dont have to close the pump handle (if the video is accurate) as the piston stops at about 60 degrees from the horizontal. The remaining motion just folds the pump handle.
Or am I mistaken?
That's how it 'pears to me......
IMO... The piston continues to move rearward til the pump handle is closed OR until the pivot points cross "overcenter". The piston doesn't move nearly as far --at the end of the stroke-- compared to the amount of pump arm movement which multiplies the applied force.
-
Gotcha! So the bulk of the air is compressed while the Piston is moving rapidly than the high-pressure compression happens while the handle is being closed the rest of the way.
-
Based on the high number of pumps needed to reach the same velocities as the previous DF makes me think the piston is doing less work on each stroke as well.
-
Hmmmm I don't see Crosman rebranding their stuff out to any Tom, Dick and Harry out there...
Keep trying SPA, you may get there someday.
BTW... Butterfly might have been a better name... :o
-
Hmmmm I don't see Crosman rebranding their stuff out to any Tom, Dick and Harry out there...
Keep trying SPA, you may get there someday.
BTW... Butterfly might have been a better name... :o
Names mean little to me, I'm just glad there are more .22 cal MSP's joining the market! More for my collection. If the pumping is as easy as claimed I can probably get my wife to join me shooting. The c362 is going to make my left arm really strong shooting at eight pumps every time!
-
As said many times already, the tinkers will continue to enjoy the Crosman and all the parts. That's fantastic! I give them credit but if they haven't noticed the "huge majority", not all, of the younger generation (<40 old) and people in general are disposable minded. They want everything instantly at any price. Not to mention they have no brand or USA job loyalty because they grow up on everything from China. So the Dragonfly "Duece" is at $199 for a point and shot rifle. It's built on a 5-10 y.o. "lego" platform. it's a nice looking wood stocked rifle. Synthetic stocks are available. The only negative being 15 pumps to get 730 FPS with lead.
Now let's do the math. The 670 FPS stock Crosman 362 - $99; steel breech - $50- 60; and still no possible multishot capability. The only possiblity I know for a magazine is the Gravmag - $50 with shipping. We are at the same price for a Synthetic stock 362. Now who is going to put this together for the masses for free? Plus no wood stock with no fiber optics sights and about 50 - 60 less FPS as advertised?
I buy from American companies when ever I can. I own Crosman and Benjamin ariguns. I want Crosman to do better - innovate, improve and make the product they should have for the last 10 years. All these parts have been available for over 2 decades except for the stock.
What are your thoughts?
-
What would be the advantage of a multi shot (magged) pumper?
-
What would be the advantage of a multi shot (magged) pumper?
No need for tweezers, or reading glasses, just ask Wayne ;)
-
What would be the advantage of a multi shot (magged) pumper?
I love the bb magazine on my 901 and like to keep it filled.
-
As said many times already, the tinkers will continue to enjoy the Crosman and all the parts. That's fantastic! I give them credit but if they haven't noticed the "huge majority", not all, of the younger generation (<40 old) and people in general are disposable minded. They want everything instantly at any price. Not to mention they have no brand or USA job loyalty because they grow up on everything from China. So the Dragonfly "Duece" is at $199 for a point and shot rifle. It's built on a 5-10 y.o. "lego" platform. it's a nice looking wood stocked rifle. Synthetic stocks are available. The only negative being 15 pumps to get 730 FPS with lead.
Now let's do the math. The 670 FPS stock Crosman 362 - $99; steel breech - $50- 60; and still no possible multishot capability. The only possiblity I know for a magazine is the Gravmag - $50 with shipping. We are at the same price for a Synthetic stock 362. Now who is going to put this together for the masses for free? Plus no wood stock with no fiber optics sights and about 50 - 60 less FPS as advertised?
I buy from American companies when ever I can. I own Crosman and Benjamin ariguns. I want Crosman to do better - innovate, improve and make the product they should have for the last 10 years. All these parts have been available for over 2 decades except for the stock.
What are your thoughts?
Gerry,
I just don't see a solid argument for the demise of Crosman due to the release of a Lego gun that does what only this one does. Its a solid shooter as is with no changes and shoots the snot out of similar priced guns BUT adds the beautiful ability of MODS! SAWEET!!!! ;)
BTW- I will disagree with your statement about, "the younger generation (<40 old) and people in general are disposable minded.". The kids I see around me are furious at the disposable and are demanding renewable/compostable/recyclable and reusable. The pendulum seems to be in a return swing... :o
-
As said many times already, the tinkers will continue to enjoy the Crosman and all the parts. That's fantastic! I give them credit but if they haven't noticed the "huge majority", not all, of the younger generation (<40 old) and people in general are disposable minded. They want everything instantly at any price. Not to mention they have no brand or USA job loyalty because they grow up on everything from China. So the Dragonfly "Duece" is at $199 for a point and shot rifle. It's built on a 5-10 y.o. "lego" platform. it's a nice looking wood stocked rifle. Synthetic stocks are available. The only negative being 15 pumps to get 730 FPS with lead.
Now let's do the math. The 670 FPS stock Crosman 362 - $99; steel breech - $50- 60; and still no possible multishot capability. The only possiblity I know for a magazine is the Gravmag - $50 with shipping. We are at the same price for a Synthetic stock 362. Now who is going to put this together for the masses for free? Plus no wood stock with no fiber optics sights and about 50 - 60 less FPS as advertised?
I buy from American companies when ever I can. I own Crosman and Benjamin ariguns. I want Crosman to do better - innovate, improve and make the product they should have for the last 10 years. All these parts have been available for over 2 decades except for the stock.
What are your thoughts?
Gerry,
I just don't see a solid argument for the demise of Crosman due to the release of a Lego gun that does what only this one does. Its a solid shooter as is with no changes and shoots the snot out of similar priced guns BUT adds the beautiful ability of MODS! SAWEET!!!! ;)
BTW- I will disagree with your statement about, "the younger generation (<40 old) and people in general are disposable minded.". The kids I see around me are furious at the disposable and are demanding renewable/compostable/recyclable and reusable. The pendulum seems to be in a return swing... :o
I think the "younger generation" being referred to are now in their 40's and 50's. More .22 pumpers in the market, the better I say. Competition breeds innovation.
-
i would categorize my generation less as disposable minded, but more so instant gratification minded.
i had the internet since 13. i had a smart phone since my 20's. everything has literally been at my finger tips most of my life. and i'm getting "old", the younger generation has had instant gratification their whole lives.
i think crosman was always be there, but the market for folks who like to tinker is shrinking. there will always be new tinkerers, people who sink $3-400 into a 1377 (like me). but most people i know would want to buy an airgun, and have it work without taking it apart and having to immediately upgrade it.
we are a niche market on the forums
-
As said many times already, the tinkers will continue to enjoy the Crosman and all the parts. That's fantastic! I give them credit but if they haven't noticed the "huge majority", not all, of the younger generation (<40 old) and people in general are disposable minded. They want everything instantly at any price. Not to mention they have no brand or USA job loyalty because they grow up on everything from China. So the Dragonfly "Duece" is at $199 for a point and shot rifle. It's built on a 5-10 y.o. "lego" platform. it's a nice looking wood stocked rifle. Synthetic stocks are available. The only negative being 15 pumps to get 730 FPS with lead.
Now let's do the math. The 670 FPS stock Crosman 362 - $99; steel breech - $50- 60; and still no possible multishot capability. The only possiblity I know for a magazine is the Gravmag - $50 with shipping. We are at the same price for a Synthetic stock 362. Now who is going to put this together for the masses for free? Plus no wood stock with no fiber optics sights and about 50 - 60 less FPS as advertised?
I buy from American companies when ever I can. I own Crosman and Benjamin ariguns. I want Crosman to do better - innovate, improve and make the product they should have for the last 10 years. All these parts have been available for over 2 decades except for the stock.
What are your thoughts?
Gerry,
I just don't see a solid argument for the demise of Crosman due to the release of a Lego gun that does what only this one does. Its a solid shooter as is with no changes and shoots the snot out of similar priced guns BUT adds the beautiful ability of MODS! SAWEET!!!! ;)
BTW- I will disagree with your statement about, "the younger generation (<40 old) and people in general are disposable minded.". The kids I see around me are furious at the disposable and are demanding renewable/compostable/recyclable and reusable. The pendulum seems to be in a return swing... :o
I think the "younger generation" being referred to are now in their 40's and 50's. More .22 pumpers in the market, the better I say. Competition breeds innovation.
+1
-
I must live in a different world... every young person that has come around here went right to the tinker bench and wanted to know what was going on. First guns they grabbed were the modded ones.
-
I must live in a different world... every young person that has come around here went right to the tinker bench and wanted to know what was going on. First guns they grabbed were the modded ones.
+1
-
I must live in a different world... every young person that has come around here went right to the tinker bench and wanted to know what was going on. First guns they grabbed were the modded ones.
thats really interesting. i wonder if it has something to do with environment? i live in a moderately populated mid sized city (boise), maybe people here are used to services and things being done for them more often, which leaks into daily life and how life is approached generally.
-
I must live in a different world... every young person that has come around here went right to the tinker bench and wanted to know what was going on. First guns they grabbed were the modded ones.
thats really interesting. i wonder if it has something to do with environment? i live in a moderately populated mid sized city (boise), maybe people here are used to services and things being done for them more often, which leaks into daily life and how life is approached generally.
Yessir, it's easy to make false assumptions when your experience is in a specific bubble. I happen to live in one such bubble being the back woods of lower Alabama. Kids down here grow up in a country/farming life style. They are born tinkerers. They have to be to keep things running. You rarely see a young person down here that don't drive a pickup truck that has been modified to some extreme.
-
I must live in a different world... every young person that has come around here went right to the tinker bench and wanted to know what was going on. First guns they grabbed were the modded ones.
thats really interesting. i wonder if it has something to do with environment? i live in a moderately populated mid sized city (boise), maybe people here are used to services and things being done for them more often, which leaks into daily life and how life is approached generally.
Yessir, it's easy to make false assumptions when your experience is in a specific bubble. I happen to live in one such bubble being the back woods of lower Alabama. Kids down here grow up in a country/farming life style. They are born tinkerers. They have to be to keep things running. You rarely see a young person down here that don't drive a pickup truck that has been modified to some extreme.
Bill ... Sounds like you are able to experience some good things about the past ... to me a better lifestyle. I suspect a lot of us that jumped on the C362 are older, I am 73. I must tinker as I am on my own with airguns. No close friends anymore that are into them.
-
I'm pretty sure I've never owned anything that didn't get some level of tinkering.
-
I'll be 31 this year, so squarely in the "younger generation" and I don't know if anything I own hasn't been tinkered with. A few months ago I tried to install some fancy sling swivels in her Eagle Claw stock and I totally mangled it. I ordered a stock that same day to replace it, and the 'Claw as a result has zero tinkering. That rifle is really my wife's rifle, and I can't really make it any better anyway.
-
Regarding my comment on the under 40 generation does come from me having lived in a large city suburb with middle to affluent incomes. Now in a small town I see a difference in the children. So my apologies to the city mentality and environmental ignorance in the comment!
-
yeah i do definitely live in a bubble as well. its really refreshing to hear that most people out there still like to tinker, given being raised in the right environment.
in airguns in particular, i feel like people tinkering is how we've gotten so many advancements
-
yeah i do definitely live in a bubble as well. its really refreshing to hear that most people out there still like to tinker, given being raised in the right environment.
in airguns in particular, i feel like people tinkering is how we've gotten so many advancements
I am on a very tight airgun budget so actually had to sell a couple airguns just to justify all the aftermarket stuff I knew I would be buying for the C362.
-
I sold a gun for the 1st one and I have a gun listed now for the 2nd.
-
What would be the advantage of a multi shot (magged) pumper?
Hunting with gloves in the winter! That would be a plus for me, but not a deal breaker.
-
i would categorize my generation less as disposable minded, but more so instant gratification minded.
i had the internet since 13. i had a smart phone since my 20's. everything has literally been at my finger tips most of my life. and i'm getting "old", the younger generation has had instant gratification their whole lives.
i think crosman was always be there, but the market for folks who like to tinker is shrinking. there will always be new tinkerers, people who sink $3-400 into a 1377 (like me). but most people i know would want to buy an airgun, and have it work without taking it apart and having to immediately upgrade it.
we are a niche market on the forums
Sad, but true
-
I have a couple modded 13xx's, and I spent basically nothing but time to fix the barrels in place, mount optics, and even add a screw-on moderator. If only I could have done these kinds of things when I was a kid, though!
-
I have a couple modded 13xx's, and I spent basically nothing but time to fix the barrels in place, mount optics, and even add a screw-on moderator. If only I could have done these kinds of things when I was a kid, though!
i feel the same way, but am very very thankful to have this community here that have helped me figure things out along the way.
-
As said many times already, the tinkers will continue to enjoy the Crosman and all the parts. That's fantastic! I give them credit but if they haven't noticed the "huge majority", not all, of the younger generation (<40 old) and people in general are disposable minded. They want everything instantly at any price. Not to mention they have no brand or USA job loyalty because they grow up on everything from China. So the Dragonfly "Duece" is at $199 for a point and shot rifle. It's built on a 5-10 y.o. "lego" platform. it's a nice looking wood stocked rifle. Synthetic stocks are available. The only negative being 15 pumps to get 730 FPS with lead.
Now let's do the math. The 670 FPS stock Crosman 362 - $99; steel breech - $50- 60; and still no possible multishot capability. The only possiblity I know for a magazine is the Gravmag - $50 with shipping. We are at the same price for a Synthetic stock 362. Now who is going to put this together for the masses for free? Plus no wood stock with no fiber optics sights and about 50 - 60 less FPS as advertised?
I buy from American companies when ever I can. I own Crosman and Benjamin ariguns. I want Crosman to do better - innovate, improve and make the product they should have for the last 10 years. All these parts have been available for over 2 decades except for the stock.
What are your thoughts?
Gerry,
I just don't see a solid argument for the demise of Crosman due to the release of a Lego gun that does what only this one does. Its a solid shooter as is with no changes and shoots the snot out of similar priced guns BUT adds the beautiful ability of MODS! SAWEET!!!! ;)
BTW- I will disagree with your statement about, "the younger generation (<40 old) and people in general are disposable minded.". The kids I see around me are furious at the disposable and are demanding renewable/compostable/recyclable and reusable. The pendulum seems to be in a return swing... :o
Yup, even my 7 year old made me buy recycled printer paper!
I have to admit he was right, it is just as good as the new stuff these days. I remember recycled paper being yellow and not smooth enough for laser printing. The kids I see want things to last, it's the folks in their 30s-40s who were into fast fashion and disposable everything. Not 100% of them, clearly no group works like that, this is just the age group that bought the majority of that, even if the majority of them never did. The 20 and under crowd wants stuff they can leave for their kids. They are going out and buying the stuff their parents put out on the curb when grandma died. At this point their parents are too.
Go find a local maker space, sit there and watch. They are repairing things never meant to be fixed, or modifying them in ways never meant. Tell me that isn't the same spirit.
-
I feel putting the 392 in a synthetic stock with poor cheek / sight height was the kiss of death for that model... Especially with Crosman having to know the 362 was on the horizon at that time.
I think keeping the 392 Wood and Brass, maybe calling it a "Heritage" would have appealed to more than it does now, considering the other choices out there...
-
I think keeping the 392 Wood and Brass, maybe calling it a "Heritage" would have appealed to more than it does now, considering the other choices out there...
For sure! I do not have a 392 - certainly would not consider a synthetic stock version.
And I think I previously mentioned that making a synthetic stock with a cheek height for a scope on a rifle that still does not have a dovetailed receiver/breech is a blunder.
-
Hard to imagine that the 392s was tested 80,000 pumps without someone saying... "Houston, we have a problem". :o
-
You know how R&D / Q.C. works Bill..
They probably had it mounted in a fixture and everything was automated...
All pneumatic cylinders and gauge equipment... doubtful and 'Human" actually mounted it an pulled the trigger.
-
Hard to believe NOBODY at Benjamin/Crosman shouldered that gun.
And if they did, they need to be sent back to marketing where they most likely came from... :o
-
But...But... the experts tell us it's "efficient" and technically more accurate... automation is much more better than a Human.... right? :P
-
Lookie here Mister... stop stalling and get your butt out there and shovel that snow.
-
Now you're sounding like Hoosier Momma... :-\
-
Do I remember correctly?
Was there a 392/397 produced for just a minute that included dovetail breech from the factory? Seems it had a special name and was dovetailed like some of the custom shops will still do I believe.
-
Found it.
392LE looks like it was dovetailed from factory. Be great if that was still available.
-
Found it.
392LE looks like it was dovetailed from factory. Be great if that was still available.
Have an image or reference - I don't see it.
-
Found it here on the GTA. I actually google searched to it. Looks like they only made 500.
I can’t seem to get a link to it working.
-
Seems to me that Timmy at MAC1 offered that mod at one time. ?
-
Very different. Some sort of breech with side cocking bolt vs rear cocking bolt of standard models.
-
Was there a Sears & Roebuck model "Ted Williams" or "J.C. Higgins" version of the 392 ever offered?
If so, that may have had dovetails like the older 160 / 180 versions? ::)
-
After poking about on crosman.com, I could not located a unique OM or EVP for the 392LE.
I did locate an AS392 model that is CO2 powered - AirSource cylinder to be specific. And this model appears to have a breech similar to the 392LE. It is a unique breech, part number AS392A001 and carries the nomenclature "Adapter Assembly" (cannot use the abbreviation due to the auto censor software).
This AS392 seems an odd rifle. It has an air (or gas) tube, but use of CO2 cartridges are not mentioned, only the AirSource cylinder that resides under the tube. The rest of the rifle has a conglomeration of parts from various models including 2250, AS2250, 2200, 760, CB9, a few others, and its own unique parts.
And the AS392 has two power levels which are obtained much like 1960's Crosman CO2 guns - that is to say by pulling the bolt back half-way or all the way back.
Never saw one - or heard of it.
-
Here ya go Craig, both EVP and owners manual. https://support.crosman.com/hc/en-us/articles/207951106-392-Owner-s-Manual-EVP-2016-Present-
-
That's the standard with rear bolt (which I think superior) - I don't see any reference to the variant (LE) with the side bolt.
As I look through the link you sent (standard 392, 397), it appears the barrel and breech and tube are an assembly - not separate. Definitely not a "lego" gun.
There are separate part numbers for barrel, tube, adapter assembly (breech?). It's confusing, barrel and breech could be soldered. It is a peculiar rifle - and the drawings are not clear.
And I know it very unlikely I will ever need parts for it. :D