GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => AirForce Airguns => Topic started by: Hoosier Daddy on January 01, 2022, 08:30:23 PM
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OK... time to fess up.
When I joined GTA I was a sub $200 gun guy....
Then I got my first PA catalog in the mail. HOLY SWEET MOTHER MARY... I was amazed with the guns from Airforce.
But thought who would spend that kind of money on an air gun.
I have since progressed to sub $1000 HW and AA guns.
I have always been a "wood and steel" sort, but 2 days ago I found a great ($650) deal on a new Talon SS in .177.
Is the money Airforce (MSRP) asks for practical today?
Is that platform now consider antiquated?
I know there is TON's (pun intended) of upgrades out there.
A 12" barrel seems short but a longer barrel negates the SS function.
Talon Tunes offer a 6" and 9" moderator for an 18" barrel...
ohhhh a .20 or .22 barrel seems an easy adaption and all that is needed?
My head is realing right now
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Personally, I think they're a very expensive Lego gun. That 625 will turn into 1500 - 2000, before you know it.
I had a condor. Notice I said HAD.
Sank a bunch of money into it, before I said " enough is enough ", and sold it, for a *(&^ of a loss.
And, it STILL wasn't what I wanted, or, expected it to be.
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I think Airforce has not embraced the times as well as they could have.
I have a Texan, but come on, it’s a down and dirty POWERHOUSE. Plain and simple. Fun to shoot? Not really, unless you like refilling and such. They eat a bunch of lead per shot too. But if you need the power, it’s one of the best around, still.
The condor base though doesn’t seem to fill a spot as well these days. Let’s face it, it’s still fumbly in its single shot loading. It still has an abnormally high cheek weld which makes you mount a scope way high. It still suffers from a less than rock solid frame.
I think Airforce needs to step up their design game. They’ve about milked that same old cow (design) dry.
Dave
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Thanks guys... MUCH appreciated.
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Not like Scott I went from a Beeman 2x cal. and a few other Walmart break barrels and pumpers. Then I Jumped right into the Dark Side, with a Recluse, and a few months later an Air Force Escape UL, yes a higher dollar Leggo Gun.
Took the .25 barrel off, bought a .22 slug barrel, LDC, extra bottle, Great HP slug gun. Recently added a .20 barrel, in the process of turning down the .25 barrel to fit the 13xx platform for another Lego gun project.
Just added Buck Rail fore grip and hand grips, nice addition BTW, If you prefer single shot, and want a gun with one of the best warranties then go for it, but be warned you can stick more $ than needed into these just like the other Lego guns out and about now.
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I bought an SS early in the 00’s. The only changes I made were a longer barrel from Mac1 almost the day I got the SS. Over the past 20 years I had zero trouble with it.
Now I am not an FX fan boi by any stretch but this summer a buddy let me try an FX Dreamline Compact. It was what I had always wanted to SS to be. I ended in selling the SS and buying his Dreamline. Now I know they are a more expensive rifle but used the prices are close to being the same.
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WildCJ5: I was wondering about that, except thinking Brocock.
In all honesty, the Leggo gun aspect is what really intrigues me... I love to tinker.
But looking at the price of parts, bits, bobbles I can see how a guy could wrap up a small fortune. Cripe, I have 13XX and 22XX builds I could NEVER recover the money spent on customizing. Now imagine that with the decimal point moved to the right! :o
I am a "single shot" kinda guy.... A Sentry and Kratos are the only magazine guns I have owned and to me it's almost a hindrance. You can through a lot of lead downrange quickly but then you have to stop and reload the mag. I prefer the zen of the B.R.A.S.S. method whan shooting and loading each pellet one at a time helps with that.
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Just here to say I love my AF guns for that very simple Lego functionality. My needs are simple and I don’t fancy myself and match-grade shooter and I’m not sweating over “one ragged hole” accuracy so that eliminates all kinds of stress.
I think the ability to tune up and down, swap barrels, the availability of custom parts from those who have mastered the platform make it a good choice.
They really seem PERFECT to me… i have gazed over all the catalogs with money to spend but not seeing others with such functional / utilitarian design and when I have a budget I end up buying molds or AF parts instead of a new gun.
Started with a talon p in .25, bought some used parts and a couple if frames. I can reconfigure from a compact 50 fpe carbine to a 175 fpe .257 with a TJ’s barrel without too much work.
I am as happy as a clam with these guns so i say double down on.
Not for those who want complexity, multi shot, regulated shooting if course.
The good news is people sell their old AF stuff when they get a bug for something different, usually at a very steep discount!
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I had a Condor i bought used around 10 yrs ago. This had the red wire safety in front of trigger...what a pita. I couldn't warm up to the gun....between the cheek rest, safety, removal of bottle to fill(think they changed this) flexing of the frame.
I sold the rifle and never regretted it.
Good luck.. it did make power.
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I think dinosaur is relative to what you are looking for. I mean spring guns are pretty much dinosaurs but fill a niche that I don’t see ever going away. Air Force is going after the horsepower wars right now and has neglected keeping up with evolving the talon/condor. Numbers sell, and when the talon/condors came out, there wasn’t much else there as powerful or customizable. So can’t blame them for focusing on their big bores.
I have a .20 condor, and honestly suggest that as the route. The .177 and .20 use a different valve in the tank, and will function on the larger calibers with a small loss in efficiency and power. I have the .22/.25 tank as well and can easily swap between calibers and tanks. However the .22/25 tank will not work with a .177 barrel. I have a barrel in all the standard calibers and can customize the gun to fit the “mission”. Personally though I think the .177 is a lost cause you’ll have a hard time keeping them subsonic. I would say the ring lock kit is a must if you want to use .177 pellets.
Out of the box they are not near as quiet as something like a marauder. However I run 12 inch barrels with the SS baffles, a Donny FL end cap with a Donny FL Sumo. It literally sounds like hitting a typewriter key and attracts 0 attention.
I think their biggest Achilles Heel is not being regulated. Adding one makes the shooting position even more awkward, unless you get a custom frame and by that time you could have a nice FX. But if you want the AR of the Airgun world and don’t mind it’s flaws, they are a lot of fun and simple to work on.
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Thank you for that insight!!!
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. But if you want the AR of the Airgun world and don’t mind it’s flaws, they are a lot of fun and simple to work on.
When AF first started, it was the only serious airgun that had that tactical, swat team, hi-tech look. I got the original version, the ‘Gunpower Stealth’ I think it was called. It was worth the money just to have people go ‘oooooh, how cool’, even though I couldn’t hit anything with it. Now, there’s all kinds of tactical looking airguns and bullpups,etc, so it’s lost the coolness factor. But like Schwebel says, it’s a tinkerer’s dream gun. Lots of AR type guys just enjoy taking them apart and doing some mod with aftermarket stuff, then putting it back together and running a couple shots through it. Then back to tinkering.
PS; Air Force bought RAW a few years back, which is a more serious lineup and can actually be used in competition or for people who want accuracy and are willing to pay for it. Maybe they figured they had taken the condor platform about as far as they could?
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How does Auction Hunter "Ton" fit in?
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I think the Airforce guns are great and I would love to add a Condor to the collection at some point. I am a hunter and prefer simple guns that can be taken apart and fixed easily as well as modified to suit my needs. The "latest and greatest" crowd will always be a part of every hobby. At the end of the day the Airforce guns get the job done with plenty of power in every caliber and like others already said lots of mods available. What's not to like?
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How does Auction Hunter "Ton" fit in?
I think Ton was adopted by Air Force since I hear he is a self admitted air gun shooter addict. He developed the Escape UL compilation back in the day too.
Mine can be anything I want it to be with the swap of a bottle and turn of the HS adjuster.
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They are like a single shot shot guns. You have many calibers to choose from and are simple. I do not care what anyone says a single shot airforce is the single shot shot gun of airguns. It works for anything from a tree rat to a bear. ;D
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I have sunk way more money into my Airforce than the original escapeul cost, but I have had it as a high power slug gun, mid powered regulated shorter 22, then unregulated 177, back to low power regulated .22
They are really fun and easy to tinker with, and can also be changed quickly.
I do think it is a bit expensive for what it is now, but changing configurations is pretty cheap. I would only get it if you plan on having multiple configurations for it
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Talon SS is a wimpy gun in.25 cal. It might be better in.22 cal, but I don't know that.
In .25 cal, it needs at least an extra $400 in mods to bring it up in performance equal to other more modern designs.
Your money would be better spent on a Hatsan, FX, Benjamín, etc.
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I bought my 25 Condor SS for the sole purpose of hunting! I think that is what they are designed to do & they actually are very good AS - IS from the factory when you consider the bag limits on game. They are also very good slug shooters! I use the JSB KO @ 940 FPS for squirrels & get 8 shots at that power. The bag limit here is 6! so it works out. Then I can change to the 24" barrel, turn the power wheel up, raise the tank pressure to 2600 & shoot the 43.5 gr NSA at 936 FPS for larger game. It only gets 5 shots! but thats alot more shots than I have ever got at a Fox or Coyote in real life hunting scenario. All the fancy add-ons really aren't needed! just loctite everything screw (including the tophat) & learn to tune these rifles & they will please in as far as hunting goes.
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I love the AF line. No bs at all, super easy to tune and modify, basically nothing that can break as far as I can tell.
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It's not hard to make a single shot pcp dump a ton of air per shot, for less money.
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It's not hard to make a single shot pcp dump a ton of air per shot, for less money.
Not that easy or cheap with 80+ FPE that a Condor .25 gets from the factory.
Love my Condors. Tons of power and very tunable. I can go from 90fpe down to 35-40fpe using the o-ring mod which takes 1.5 min. to do, or just use the power wheel and adjustable tophat, or different non-adjustable tophats which take <2 min. to change out. Easy to mod and get consistent strings, and pretty easy to take apart. If you just replace the breech o-rings or the breech slide itself (cheap - it also acts as an extension to the hammer so it wears out over time) every couple of years and clean the barrel, your AF gun will stay accurate and shooting great for decades. Mine are 13, 14 years old and shooting great.
You also don't have to buy expensive aftermarket (like Talon Tunes) parts for AF guns unless you want a different stock, a heavier hammer (today's Condors don't need it), a different valve, or something flashy for your gun. Stock parts from Airforce are fairly inexpensive, and AF has great tech support right here in the USA.
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My Talon SS now in .20 I also have a .22 barrel remains stock and it’s goon enough for me. I don’t expect 100 yards from it as long as it’s minute of ground squirrel I’m happy. I’ve noticed it’s hold sensitive
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OK... time to fess up.
When I joined GTA I was a sub $200 gun guy....
Then I got my first PA catalog in the mail. HOLY SWEET MOTHER MARY... I was amazed with the guns from Airforce.
But thought who would spend that kind of money on an air gun.
I have since progressed to sub $1000 HW and AA guns.
I have always been a "wood and steel" sort, but 2 days ago I found a great ($650) deal on a new Talon SS in .177.
Is the money Airforce (MSRP) asks for practical today?
Is that platform now consider antiquated?
I know there is TON's (pun intended) of upgrades out there.
A 12" barrel seems short but a longer barrel negates the SS function.
Talon Tunes offer a 6" and 9" moderator for an 18" barrel...
ohhhh a .20 or .22 barrel seems an easy adaption and all that is needed?
My head is realing right now
Scott, the AF guns are tried and true, just an old design, and with many new PCP's coming out every year at a lower price point, they lost their popularity. The Condor or Talon used to be the air rifle most people wanted over a decade ago. I would not call any gun or PCP a "dinosaur". The Disco and Mrod are old too from the 2000's decade and are not that popular today either, but still decent PCP's that serve different purposes.
To me there is no such thing as "antiquated". Would you call a classic Reminton 700 antiquated? Or a Diana 48 or 34 antiquated? They still do what they are supposed to do. I think my Condors look great and better than, or more impressive than most of my PCP's which are dull looking to me, except for my Akela bullpup because of the nice walnut stock on it. The AF guns are like no other, and if you look at all the PCP's out there there are a couple of companies that have copied them. Also look at some of the high-end $4K competition target guns. They look a lot like the Talon/Condor or use the same design.
The issue with the Condor is that it's not a woods gun and not easy to shoot off hand. You need to shoot it from a bipod or a good rest unless you put a wood stock on it and even then with an extended shroud a 50+ inch gun is a bit long to take to the woods. However, they are great for shooting marmots and ground squirrels in open fields, and sniping from a rest in a concealed position which is what I use them for when medium-sized game or pests come into my yard. A talon with a 12" or 18" barrel is shorter and easier to handle in the field, and can still provide you tons of shots with its 490cc tank.
Coincidentally I have used the Condor .22 in the woods and heavy brush shortly after I got it. Almost immediately I realized I had brought the wrong gun, and that I had to shoot from one place. I used a low branch as a rest to shoot at squirrels at the very top of the trees early in the morning when they were coming out of their dens and began feeding on acorns. Still not ideal since I was restricted to 1 place, and onlyl about 140 degrees, and couldn't shoot anything behind me or squirrels on the ground. The guy that had invited me to his 35 wooded acres had a Diana 48 and got the bag limit in 35 min. while I only got 2 and 1 chipmunk before the squirrels made their disappearing act.
The AF guns are as good as any PCP and better than several ones out there because of their limitless tuning abilities, shot count if tuned properly, and the power than can be achieved. It just depends how you use them, and have limited use in the woods unless you are in a blind or a good sniping position with a solid rest or a bipod. But I don't see much of an issue walking around the woods with a 12" barreled Talon, if that's your thing. They are certainly easier to shoulder and shoot off-hand than one with a 24" barrel.
Harry
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It’s probably a pcp with the least o rings and awesome customer service
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Thanks guys, that really is much appreciated Harry.
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I've had my Talon SS for over 10 years without any issues. It shoots well and is easy to tune. I've had many AGs come and go since I bought my Talon. I don't see myself ever getting rid of my Talon. I have several regulated PCPs which are a bit more consistent from shot to shot but none that are as light and as fun to shoot, especially off hand as my Talon is.
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Lego gun is an amazingly accurate description that I had not thought of.
I think the Airforce platform is far from outdated. It is just a very utilitarian gun.
I have a TalonP that I bought specifically for pest control and other guns for target and long range.
That said, I found it to be so much fun to shoot that the lego aspect began to come into play.
Yes it is just a single shot, but actually prefer that. The first accessory I usually buy for any of my guns is a single shot loader.
Before and after pictures below.
It is still primarily a pest gun, but when I take my Prophet out, the Talon usually gets some fun time too.
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. But if you want the AR of the Airgun world and don’t mind it’s flaws, they are a lot of fun and simple to work on.
When AF first started, it was the only serious airgun that had that tactical, swat team, hi-tech look. I got the original version, the ‘Gunpower Stealth’ I think it was called.
I still run a Gunpower Stealth (serial number 667) for pest control for work.
The sub 12 ft lbs is perfect as it will not penetrate the 26 gauge steel of the buildings, and with the UK factory tank I get almost 500 shots per fill in .22 caliber.
I can move it up to over 20 ftlbs for outside pest by putting on a standard Airforce tank, but at the cost of shot count.
It’s always reliable, and simple design, and fits into a small trumpet case for when I have to discretely do pest control at other locations.
I keep saying it and the extras I have acquired or had made over the years needs to find a new home, but every time I have to use it, I know why I have never listed it….
Ian
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Older thread, but...
Secretly, I want an AF gun... I think. Then again I'm drawn to many of the "once popular" airguns. I usually don't get anything that's brand new to the market, but wait until it's been refined and well tested. Off and on I've been eyeing the Talon, Condor and Texan, even check out the outlet section of the AirForce website now and then. If I ever go through with a purchase, it'll probably be on a Condor in .25 caliber, as I have my fill of .177's and .22's... Plus I found a stash of .25cal poly mags and JSB's from my .25 breakbarrel days that never got used up :D
(If not an AF gun, I'll probably end up with some .25 cal eventually)
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Older thread, but...
Secretly, I want an AF gun... I think. Then again I'm drawn to many of the "once popular" airguns. I usually don't get anything that's brand new to the market, but wait until it's been refined and well tested. Off and on I've been eyeing the Talon, Condor and Texan, even check out the outlet section of the AirForce website now and then. If I ever go through with a purchase, it'll probably be on a Condor in .25 caliber, as I have my fill of .177's and .22's... Plus I found a stash of .25cal poly mags and JSB's from my .25 breakbarrel days that never got used up :D
(If not an AF gun, I'll probably end up with some .25 cal eventually)
Keep an eye out on Midway USA sometimes they have the Escape for less than $600. I love my AF guns. Simple and accurate just find the sweet spot.
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Well I was gonna try and come up with some thoughts for you about the air force rifles , or condor, but it's pretty much already been said,, I bought a condor in 2008,,opened up and polished the valve my self , added a similar to wok but , I made my self, which made a huge difference with off hand shooting which I did allot of, polished ,lapped in,,, the lother Walther barrel ,, made my own shroud,, spent a good deal of time learning to tune the air force, keep it in the tune, and it will absolutely amaze you with the accuracy that you will get.
I did not spend a dime on the gun after original purchase. Except scope rail ..
I have spent allot of time with the condor, anyway all the new stuff is cool for sure,, repeaters, semi auto,, goes on and on, personal preference really.