GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Air Arms Airguns => Topic started by: cztheday on December 11, 2021, 08:00:01 PM
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I'm new to air guns so please forgive me if I have missed the completely obvious in the following!
I finally received my long-awaited .177 TX200 Mk3 late this summer and have put about 250 or so rounds through it during 4-5 sessions at the range. I was pleased during my first outing by putting a fairly tight quarter sized group together at 50 yds from the bench (without much attention to hold etc.). I "calibrate" myself by shooting my CZ 455 Ultra Lux 22LR, which, with its favored ammunition, reliably puts dime sized groups together at this distance. (If I'm having an off day with the CZ, I can understand an off day with the TX.)
At any rate, on subsequent range trips, I have been unable to replicate consistent tight groups at 50 yds--often putting 3-6 though a jagged hole with 2-5 fliers 1.5-2.5 inches away--all this with much more concentration on a light hold, consistent cheek weld, breathing etc. On one outing, I shot groups at 20, 30, 40 and 50 yds, with similar results at each distance (with greater spreads as the distance increased). I have also noticed that the degradation seems to get worse as the day progresses (shooter getting tired?)
Bottom line: All the on-line reviews/videos show 25-50 yd jagged hole performance with out-of-the-box TX 200s (notably with 10.65 gr Barrracuda Match as I have been using), and I was expecting reasonably close performance as an experienced firearm shooter new to this discipline. I'm wondering if my scope (Hawke 4X12X40AO Airmax) might be part of the issue given that shot setup/POA/trigger release etc. appear to be as constant as I can make these variables and yet see such discrepancies in groups of shots. I understand that the obvious option would be to swap out scopes, but I am reluctant to subject my firearm scopes to the heavy double recoil of the air gun. While I am open to tinkering with aftermarket upgraded components later on, I would have expected better initial performance from this expensive rifle in stock configuration--Are there any suggestions as to if/how I can check out the scope's performance while mounted on the rifle and/or other items I should investigate?
Thanks!
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I'd probably start by starting over. If you've not done so, clean the barrel. I'd use Ballistol or Hoppe's Number Nine. I don't use pellets that heavy in my TX 200 and pellets can make or break a group. I generally use H&N FTT in 4.52 diameter though I have good results with JSB Exact 8.4 grain as well. Different guns shoot better with one pellet than with another. Those are not the best pellets for ALL my springers but work well in most of them. If you want to see if it's your scope try throwing it on your CZ and see how it does there. If your mount is not secure on the gun you can see issues there. I would expect groups to loosen up more at the end of a day's shooting rather than after the beginning. The first few shots may be a bit erratic as you and the gun settle in. After that your accuracy should improve. While worrying about your hold be sure you're pulling the trigger straight back. That's the only job of your trigger hand. Use the other hand to push the gun into your shoulder.
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Check your screws!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v63d8PsklN0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v63d8PsklN0)
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Check your screws!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v63d8PsklN0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v63d8PsklN0)
Thanks! I haven't heard that diddy for a long time and actually forgot about it!
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Thanks for the wise advice guys...now if I could only get the "Got to Check Your Screws" melody out of my head!!?
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Your welcome... LOL! ;D
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Check your screws!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v63d8PsklN0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v63d8PsklN0)
Thanks! I haven't heard that diddy for a long time and actually forgot about it!
As a side note, I solved my "screw loosening issues" with my R9 and HW95 by making piloted screw posts and sleeves so the clamping force is directly between the steel post or cup instead of the wood screw seats that changes with seasonal "adsorbed humidity" and pressure that compresses the wood fibers. Since I started using steel piloted screw cups and posts the screws simply don't loosen after torquing..........
(https://i.imgur.com/G4znrw4.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/mvh5tuz.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/UTKu4Vs.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/PmXQtlw.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/hrh2PNW.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/z0pARoA.jpg)
MAC1 sells posted screw cups like this however the screw cups from AOA don't have "posts" so the clamping is still directly on the wood fibers. The MAC1 cups worked well however I've never used the AOA version..........
(https://i.imgur.com/tG26rCS.png) (https://i.imgur.com/4OltHnG.png) (https://i.imgur.com/InFdSPI.png)
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Every springer I have broken in, no matter the price / quality, has experienced frequently loosening stock screws. This subsides within the first several hundred shots. One sign of the break-in advancing is the fact that the stock screws start keeping tight.
Stock screws just a little too loose can widen groups into the 2-inch region.
As you are new to airguns, I'll also point out that most experienced airgunners maintain that new spingers needs to shoot AT LEAST 500 pellets before chasing accuracy at all. Weihrauch guys say after 2000 pellets the guns start to really work as they should. So, 250 shots in is little more than a start.
The initial break-in is best realized by sitting down next to a secure pellet backstop, and shooting low-cost pellets at a fast clip, with the only goal being getting a bunch of lead through the machine. 100 pellets take up very little time this way.
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BRONZE BRUSH scrub the bore ..... Not just patches !!!
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I know bronze is softer than steel, and therefore should not damage a springer bore, but:
Boresnakes feature bronze brushes that springer expertise tells are too risky to use with the soft-steel, fine-rifling springer bores. So, airgunners take the brushes out. I did, too.
Now even Boresnake the company offers a brushless snake for airgun use.
Are you saying, Scott, that bronze brushes inside a springer bore are a-ok, after all?
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I know bronze is softer than steel, and therefore should not damage a springer bore, but:
Boresnakes feature bronze brushes that springer expertise tells are too risky to use with the soft-steel, fine-rifling springer bores. So, airgunners take the brushes out. I did, too.
Now even Boresnake the company offers a brushless snake for airgun use.
Are you saying, Scott, that bronze brushes inside a springer bore are a-ok, after all?
A dedicated bore brush used on a cleaning rod will not damage the rifling when used periodically to remove lead fouling.
While air gun bores DO NOT powder foul, they can and will Lead foul with this happening more often than not in a spring piston air gun within the first few inches at BREECH END of barrel.
WHY BREECH END ??? Compression heat melting the lead dust created as pellet first starts moving being distributed then smeared onto bore surface with sequential shots. While choke area will also lead foul to some degree, the breech end has been the more troublesome in some spring piston air guns.
JMO ... do with it what you will.
Scott S
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Good points above but I want to add one based off you comparing it to your CZ452 .22lr. Since you didn’t compare it to another air rifle I assume this is new to you. With that said, is it windy when you are shooting? Wind, even a little is a group killer. So add that knowledge to the above. On a side note I have a couple of TX200 rifles I shoot in field target. They are very accurate. I never had consistent luck with accuracy off the bench with them. From the seated FT position they shoot great. So now I shoot them that way and don’t bother shooting them from the bench. Problem solved.
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cztheday
IMHO, if your 200 was shooting quarter size groups out of the box you have an extraordinary rifle. I ordered mine in April and received it in late August, it wouldn't shoot quarter sized groups at 25 yards. My rifle was very buzzy so I took it apart and cleaned, deburred, polished the spring ends and lubed it. The rifle was better but still had a harsh shot cycle. After about two tins of pellets I installed a Vortek PG4 kit, it's a different rifle, much smoother. Like others I fought the fore end screws coming loose, mine would get real buzzy. I fixed that by making pillars to epoxy in the stock, no more loose screws.
The trigger in mine was very rough, so when I was working on the pillars i took the trigger apart and stoned it. The only thing that really needed any attention was the bottom sear where the stage adjustment screws ride, it looked like a wash board. After the stoning and adjusting the trigger is fantastic.
I tried several pellets through mine and it shot H&N FTT in 4.51 best with AA 8.4's 4.51's very close. Through the chronograph the H&N Baracuda match looked best, low ES and SD, but on paper not so good. After the spring change the pellets preference flip flopped. Over the chrono the SD and ES dropped for all three, the SD of the 10.65 was 2. Now on paper the 10.65's will shoot dime size or smaller at 25 yards, the other two will be about a quarter size.
I had one of my 52 Winchesters out Tuesday practicing for a 50 fun match Wednesday night. After it was put away I got the TX200 out to try. It was shot off a bull bag in the front and a rear bag. The best it shot was about 2" with the 10.65's the FTT and AA's were 2 1/2-3". In all fairness the conditions were far from ideal as the wind was blowing and swirling, at times my two wind flags were showing opposite of each other. I'll try this again when conditions are more favorable.
Pillar.
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cztheday
IMHO, if your 200 was shooting quarter size groups out of the box you have an extraordinary rifle. I ordered mine in April and received it in late August, it wouldn't shoot quarter sized groups at 25 yards. My rifle was very buzzy so I took it apart and cleaned, deburred, polished the spring ends and lubed it. The rifle was better but still had a harsh shot cycle. After about two tins of pellets I installed a Vortek PG4 kit, it's a different rifle, much smoother. Like others I fought the fore end screws coming loose, mine would get real buzzy. I fixed that by making pillars to epoxy in the stock, no more loose screws.
The trigger in mine was very rough, so when I was working on the pillars i took the trigger apart and stoned it. The only thing that really needed any attention was the bottom sear where the stage adjustment screws ride, it looked like a wash board. After the stoning and adjusting the trigger is fantastic.
I tried several pellets through mine and it shot H&N FTT in 4.51 best with AA 8.4's 4.51's very close. Through the chronograph the H&N Baracuda match looked best, low ES and SD, but on paper not so good. After the spring change the pellets preference flip flopped. Over the chrono the SD and ES dropped for all three, the SD of the 10.65 was 2. Now on paper the 10.65's will shoot dime size or smaller at 25 yards, the other two will be about a quarter size.
I had one of my 52 Winchesters out Tuesday practicing for a 50 fun match Wednesday night. After it was put away I got the TX200 out to try. It was shot off a bull bag in the front and a rear bag. The best it shot was about 2" with the 10.65's the FTT and AA's were 2 1/2-3". In all fairness the conditions were far from ideal as the wind was blowing and swirling, at times my two wind flags were showing opposite of each other. I'll try this again when conditions are more favorable.
Pillar.
"It was shot off a bull bag in the front and a rear bag."
When my brother got his .177 R9 decades ago he also tried to group resting the gun on a shot bag front and rear and the gun shot PATTERNS at 30 yards, not groups. Then he rested the stock only on his shoulder and put his left hand between the shot bag and the stock forearm and the gun then shot groups. In those "early springer days" my brother only shot "3 shot powder burner type groups" instead of a more normal 5 shot springer group and shot these two 50 yard groups at one sitting at the bench.........
(https://i.imgur.com/QDfRViZ.jpg)
Here are a couple 50 yard groups I shot sitting on a bucket resting the gun on cross sticks............
(https://i.imgur.com/daG1cT8.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/eIKiook.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/8SZm6IE.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/v6Ug0yH.jpg)
I don't know about the TX200 but my HW springers never shot "bench rested on bags" as accurately as from "bucket and sticks" when I'm shooting well, the emphasis of "I'm shooting well". Here is a 255 shot target (5 shot groups) done casually from "bucket and sticks" from 10 yards to 50 yards when comparing "real world trajectory" to the ChairGun calculated trajectory. LOL, inconsistent shooting form shows up with this target but it was satisfactory for getting a "real trajectory".........
(https://i.imgur.com/a7azSng.jpg)
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Again, thanks to all for a lot of great info!
I've got several of the recommended pellets on order and will rework the front screws with the cap/post setup! I will also try the seated FT position and see how that compares to the bags on the bench.
Good comment about the wind. The last (and worst group producing) outing was under typical SW WA December conditions with a constant light mist to moderate rain falling. I tried to convince myself that shooting in these conditions is like trying to hit a golf ball through a tree--it's mainly air, right?!
Are there any other guys in the SW WA area that get together periodically? I shoot at Wolverton Mountain Gun Club near Lake Merwin.