GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: LOKEY on December 09, 2021, 01:21:05 PM
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I just got this 101 with a Diana model 20 this morning at an estate sale. It is in pretty rough shape but looks complete. It doesn't want to cock and it doesn't hold air. From looking online it doesn't seam to be real hard to repair. I am going to do my nest to get it going again.
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Nice! Congrats.
Keep us posted on your progress.
Ride on,
J~
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Well I found out why it doesn't cock. The catch on the end of the trigger is busted off. I removed the trigger guard and it fell out in my hand.
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1927 Crosman good find.
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Not hard to work on at all, sometimes a little fiddly to get holding air properly.
Call Mike Baker or Rick Wellnecker for parts, both are good guys for repair parts and some advice.
If you need the numbers just pm me.
Are you going to strip and refinish everything on it?
Pat
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Not hard to work on at all, sometimes a little fiddly to get holding air properly.
Call Mike Baker or Rick Wellnecker for parts, both are good guys for repair parts and some advice.
If you need the numbers just pm me.
Are you going to strip and refinish everything on it?
Pat
The finish is rough so I might. I need to completely tear it down to see what parts I need. I think a new trigger might be hard to find but we will see?
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1927 Crosman good find.
Just wondering how you know it's from 1927? Thanks
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Not hard to work on at all, sometimes a little fiddly to get holding air properly.
Call Mike Baker or Rick Wellnecker for parts, both are good guys for repair parts and some advice.
If you need the numbers just pm me.
Are you going to strip and refinish everything on it?
Pat
What pgritty said on parts and jg has the trigger for $7.25. I like Mike and Rick too.
https://www.jgairguns.biz/ (https://www.jgairguns.biz/)
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Nice find indeed, the straight logo version you have was produced from 1925-1929, I have two from this period, both have rifled steel barrels.
Here are some identifying features;
Model 101 pneumatic pump, single shot .22 caliber, die cast receiver with “premeir” logo made iin 1924
Model 101 w/straight logo: pat. Oct. 28, 1924, Crosman Arms Co. Rochester, NY Rifle 1925-1929
Model 101 with applied/disc logo and "clickless" forearm Rifle 1938-1939
Model 101 “Pellet”/“Curved” logo variant 1930-1950
Model 101 Late variant with crinkle finish paint and elm stock Rifle 1949-1950
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Not hard to work on at all, sometimes a little fiddly to get holding air properly.
Call Mike Baker or Rick Wellnecker for parts, both are good guys for repair parts and some advice.
If you need the numbers just pm me.
Are you going to strip and refinish everything on it?
Pat
What pgritty said on parts and jg has the trigger for $7.25. I like Mike and Rick too.
https://www.jgairguns.biz/ (https://www.jgairguns.biz/)
Thanks for the link. That's really helpful.
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That’s some great Crosman history Elroy and all in one place.
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You are most welcome Don and your new acquisition is awesome.
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You are most welcome Don and your new acquisition is awesome.
I was just looking at the trigger on JG site. It says it's for 1946 and later models. Will those parts work o mine?
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I just removed the forearm and I don't see any type of rubber cup or seal at all. What did this use on the pump? was it leather. Anyone got pics of a old one like this in good shape so I know what I need to do to mine to make it right. I see they have a replacement on JG but I want to keep my original part and he requires a core for purchase. I love the wood on this one, It really looks great. I wish the stock was as nice. Thanks
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Don,
That trigger should be the very same as your model but here’s Rick Willnecker’s contact link. He’s a great guy who will help and take the time to walk you through your rebuild and he has a lot of parts. Very reasonable cost if you buy through him. He won’t always have the parts you need so that’s why we look at others when we need them. Anyway, give him a call and he will call back if he doesn’t answer just leave a clear message. He generally returns calls in the afternoon. Let us know how things go.
http://www.airgunshop.net/contactus.html (http://www.airgunshop.net/contactus.html)
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Your leather seal is completely gone. The oil felt is missing too. Jg has those but Rick may have a replacement pump rod with a new cup. That’s a good way to go. If you want to go with the original leather that end piece on the pump rod unscrews using those two holes.
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Thanks Pellet Fun. I think I answered my own question on the pump seals. I see the Leather seal on JG and the felt oil wiper. I imagine that's all I need. Thanks guys
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There’s some really good information for rebuilding these rifles. I’m going to add a picture of what your old pump rod and cup looked like and a new one.
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Lokey
Gary beat me to it, of the two he posted I have replaced the leather pump assembly with the synthetic/rubber cup and have no regrets switching. Rick at precision pellet sells the complete assembly with the rubber cup and recommended using it over leather as it increases the velocity and cup is easier to replace if needed. He also sells them for far less than JG, but JG site has bailed me out many times on the various rifles I own.
If you are wanting to keep things original, I have a pump assembly if you need it, it’s yours.
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Gary,
Thank you, I like history of any type, when it comes to old pumpers the Crosman 10x series gets me every time. I enjoy working on them, fascinated by how many still survive and when I want a challenging rebuild project I love finding the impossible and bringing it back to life.
Lokey - your going to have fun with your project. The only other advise I can offer to get you seal kit from Rick and the lock nut removal tool from Baker Air Guns ( your going to need one to prevent damage) https://www.bakerairguns.com/product/t1-t5-tool-for-crosman/ (https://www.bakerairguns.com/product/t1-t5-tool-for-crosman/)
Looking forward to watching your progress.
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"Model 101 pneumatic pump, single shot .22 caliber, die cast receiver with “premeir” logo made iin 1924
Model 101 w/straight logo: pat. Oct. 28, 1924, Crosman Arms Co. Rochester, NY Rifle 1925-1929
Model 101 with applied/disc logo and "clickless" forearm Rifle 1938-1939
Model 101 “Pellet”/“Curved” logo variant 1930-1950
Model 101 Late variant with crinkle finish paint and elm stock Rifle 1949-1950"
Practically everything in that post is wrong unfortunately.
Which is why I have been researching vintage American air guns for a series of books to try and correct some of the rampant misinformation out there. Crosman will be the first Volume.
Here is brief look at the correct timeline for the Crosman single shot "Silent Rifle".
There are five major types based on receiver casting logos. There are variants among each type, but we will just cover the major types right now.
TYPE 1: CROSMAN PATENT LOGO RECEIVER (mid-1925 to mid 1930)
TYPE 2: PREMIER PATENT LOGO RECEIVER (1927 to 1929) Wards only
TYPE 3: APPLIED DISC PELLET LOGO RECEIVER (mid 1930 to 1945)
TYPE 4: CAST LARGE PELLET LOGO RECEIVER (1946 to mid-1948)
TYPE 5: CAST SMALL PELLET LOGO RECEIVER (mid-1948 to mid 1951)
Below is a photo of the 5 different logos side by side to study.
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There’s some really good information for rebuilding these rifles. I’m going to add a picture of what your old pump rod and cup looked like and a new one.
Well I might just go with the rubber cup. I am sure it will work better than the leather. I made a tool to get that nut loose way down inside the air chamber. It worked great but now I need to make a tool that will screw onto the other part to pull it out. When you screw the tool onto the brass part sticking out do you just pull that part out?
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DWTrull,
Interesting, first time I have seen 5 logo types will be following your research into Crosman. It’s always fun to see new information surface because it just adds to the history, and supports the old saying you don’t know what you don’t know until someone tells you what you don’t know.
As you know there are many mysteries and unverified unknowns surrounding the Crosman 100, 101 and 102 models such as who was the correct maker of the rifled steel barrels? Was it Remington or was it Winchester, I have seen more people say Remington and only one person say it was Winchester and was very adamant that all others who say otherwise are wrong. Now I just say a famous gunmaker may have made them.
As for the model 100, I agree with most that they are very rare, but until someone can document actual production numbers for the 100, 101 and 102 assumptions like for every one hundred model 101 made a single Model 100 was made and no one knows how many 102’s were made, the assumption is more of them were made than the 100. Me I stick with I have only seen two in 57 years which makes them hard to find and yes even rare at least in Montana.
As for production I have seen people say roughly 150,000 101’s were produced, again I do not know where they came up with these numbers because I see and read articles that state Crosman kept very poor records about production. But for the sake of discussion if the ratio of 100:1 is correct and 150,000 101’s were produced from 1925-1949 that would make the total number of 101’s produced in 1940, 1945-1949 would only have been 1,500 copies, which would make them super rare. However, I will stick with hard to find because everything else is based on unsupported data. As you can see on the model 100 production years I left out 1941-1944 because of information that US air rifle makers ceased production in these years to support the war effort and shortage of metals such as copper, brass chrome, nickel etc…
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I got it apart with my home made tool with no damage to it. But I think the damage mat be already done. It is NASTY inside. There are more parts down in it that need to come out but the release valve is corroded solid and does not move. Can I replace that complete chamber? Do you guys think I can fix this?
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Lokey,
It looks bad, but it really is in pretty good shape for being 90+ years old.
The red conical seal looks like it has seen better days, again Rick sells a replacement for these, I think I paid $6.00 apiece for the two I bought, these are new seals not old stock. To replace the conical seal you will need to unscrew the top brass part of the exhaust valve stem.
The other parts still in the chamber should be a brass or metal football shaped check valve spring, if you have one you can use a dental type pick to remove the spring, under that will be the check valve, this may fall out as you drive the air chamber out of the receiver, once out there is a small seal that you will need to replace on the check valve (the two brass parts unscrew for seal replacement) and in a rare instance you may even find the remains of an old brass screen filter, I did on the first one I rebuilt. Rick told me this screen was more trouble than needed and to put them back together without it.
The chamber can be difficult to deal with, and sometimes it has been known not to budge at all, mine have all come out with patients, by doing what others have done, use a wooden dowel that just fits into the compression tube from the muzzle end and use a medium hammer to drive the chamber out of the back of the receiver. Based on your trigger issue you don’t need to remove that part, but make sure you put it on after you reinstall the chamber. If the chamber is stuck you may need to use some PB Blaster and some heat to help loosen it.
On the exhaust valve body you will need to remove the old asbestos gasket from the outer groove of the exhaust valve body and use a new gasket to seal the air chamber and exhaust valve body when reassembling.
Also if you get it out check with Rick at precision pellet, he can sell you a new one with an o-ring groove cut into it, this helps with providing a firm seal over the old method of asbestos and floss/string.
If you ever need to remove the compression tube it can be unscrewed from the receiver, but again heat and PB Blaster will be your friend to help free it up. While I have done this removal don’t do it if at all possible. However if you do please be very careful not to dent/crush the tube if you use any type of jaw tool such as pliers, vice grips or table vice to turn the tube. Also if you use any jaw type tool use a piece of thick leather between the teeth and tube.
The method I prefer is a steel rod with a matching diameter of the pump arm pivot holes at the muzzle end. I insert the rod through the holes and alternate between adding heat, PB blaster and slow torque pressure to twist the tube out. This takes time as you do not want to twist the tube.
If using heat be careful not to superheat the aluminum or pot metal receiver it is not steel and will melt.
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Lokey, I’m including another nice link. This one includes the seal repair. The first one shows the disassembly. Both are very handy references. The disassembly shows the compression tube information.
The seal repair gives some special detail too. One thing you need to consider is the conical exhaust is leaded into the threads. That is a very small connection and it’s best to use some heat to soften the lead while you unscrew the end piece for the conical seal replacement. Just be really careful here; not too much heat but enough to loosen the joint. Also, you don’t need to lead this back when you reassemble.
I noticed Rick shows the o-ring instead of a quad type seal. Make sure you get that old asbestos gunk out of the exhaust seal before assembly. It will take some patience. I wound up using CLP break free and soaking the old gasket and then picking at it with tiny pick. WD-40 can be used too but if you have some CLP it’s much better.
If the compression tube seems stuck soak it. Ricks pictures are a confidence builder, but it doesn’t look like you’ll need much more advice. Your almost there.
When you get it all back together I’d enjoy seeing some chronograph numbers.
http://ricksshop1.blogspot.com/2013/09/crosman-101-reseal.html (http://ricksshop1.blogspot.com/2013/09/crosman-101-reseal.html)
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Lokey, I almost forgot. Make sure to either leave the trigger off or held back with a zip tie before you reinstall the compression assembly. It will hit the trigger and would probably damage your parts.
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SUBSCRIBED!
This is a boat-load of information shared in a short period of time.
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Well I tried to knock out the valve assembly with a wood dowel. No luck, It will not budge. How do you remove the brass pump tube from the receiver? Maybe if I get it out I can get the valve out of it with some heat. Also is the receiver body pot metal or aluminum? I was a bit worried about braking it. Thanks
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I strongly suggest you don’t try to remove the pump tube. Soak it with a solvent and leave it upright. You can use heat on the aluminum receiver where the compression tube is seated. Just be patient and if it takes a few days of soaking and heat then go slow. Do you have a vise to hold your receiver while you tap a wood dowel? Some of these are very difficult to get out but it will eventually.
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The receiver is aluminum. I don’t know the specifications for the composition.
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If you don’t have any CLP Break Free I suggest you go to a firearms store or a bass pro. This stuff is perfect for things like this. Soak that compression chamber and soak it again. It’ll break free.
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Walmart sells it. ;)
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If you don’t have any CLP Break Free I suggest you go to a firearms store or a bass pro. This stuff is perfect for things like this. Soak that compression chamber and soak it again. It’ll break free.
I have PB Blaster will that work?
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Definitely.
In independent studies PB Blaster always comes out towards the top.
(and commonly used WD-40 towards the bottom)
Interestingly a "Home Brew" of ATF and Acetone 50/50 is always the best.
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Definitely.
In independent studies PB Blaster always comes out towards the top.
(and commonly used WD-40 towards the bottom)
Interestingly a "Home Brew" of ATF and Acetone 50/50 is always the best.
Yea it has always worked for me in the past. I filled the tube at the pump end and have it standing barrel up. I will try it daily and see if it brakes free. It might take some time but I will keep you guys posted. Thanks to everyone for all the great help and info.
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I use a primitive tool that really helps getting the old exhaust valve/receiver seal out. A piece of dry cane, cut square on the end and serrated.
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"Model 101 pneumatic pump, single shot .22 caliber, die cast receiver with “premeir” logo made iin 1924
Model 101 w/straight logo: pat. Oct. 28, 1924, Crosman Arms Co. Rochester, NY Rifle 1925-1929
Model 101 with applied/disc logo and "clickless" forearm Rifle 1938-1939
Model 101 “Pellet”/“Curved” logo variant 1930-1950
Model 101 Late variant with crinkle finish paint and elm stock Rifle 1949-1950"
Practically everything in that post is wrong unfortunately.
Which is why I have been researching vintage American air guns for a series of books to try and correct some of the rampant misinformation out there. Crosman will be the first Volume.
Here is brief look at the correct timeline for the Crosman single shot "Silent Rifle".
There are five major types based on receiver casting logos. There are variants among each type, but we will just cover the major types right now.
TYPE 1: CROSMAN PATENT LOGO RECEIVER (mid-1925 to mid 1930)
TYPE 2: PREMIER PATENT LOGO RECEIVER (1927 to 1929) Wards only
TYPE 3: APPLIED DISC PELLET LOGO RECEIVER (mid 1930 to 1945)
TYPE 4: CAST LARGE PELLET LOGO RECEIVER (1946 to mid-1948)
TYPE 5: CAST SMALL PELLET LOGO RECEIVER (mid-1948 to mid 1951)
Below is a photo of the 5 different logos side by side to study.
I am wondering if your book will include your method of verification of the "truth". What I mean is on some things it may look like many "experts" agree but they are parroting each other so that it appears you would be a just minority opinion even if you are the one with the most evidence. If you just make an assertion of fact without presenting the evidence and method of proof it may be dismissed by those that think the majority can't be wrong. To change minds does take convincing as I am sure you are aware of. I hope this helps and look forward to seeing your work offered for sale.
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I use a primitive tool that really helps getting the old exhaust valve/receiver seal out. A piece of dry cane, cut square on the end and serrated.
Do you have a pic. Bamboo grows all over close to me.
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This is specifically addressed to Elroy and Dan
I have acquired DT Fletcher complete paper collection of Crosman and Benjamin paper to add to my own.
I have been researching this stuff for the last couple of years part time since I still have a fulltime job. I'd like to get it done faster,
but I am just finding so much information its taking lots of time just organizing it. I do not use anecdotal information floating around the internet because I have found that alot of it is wrong. The vast bulk of information I have is from period documents and articles. I acquired an enormous amount of Crosman and Benjamin Documents. I have also bought many examples from all the manufacturers that I am investigating to examine and establish a time line. Examining examples is often the only way to establish were it fits in the history.
I do this because I enjoy the detective work involved with establishing the real history. Will I get it 100% right, of course not, but I feel it will be as accurate as possible based on documented facts and not someones hazy recollection from 30 or 40 years ago. I have been primarily working on Crosman right now and haven't even started to organize my Benjamin and Sheridan stuff. I do admit my research has given me a better appreciation of the Crosman Silent Rifle series. And better yet my work on this book has led me to meeting many old time collectors who have lots of information to pass on regarding many of these manufacturers .
Funny thing is, my research started when I picked up a couple of Plainsman rifles and later discovered practically everything on the internet about them was wrong.
That led me down the rabbit hole, and now I am researching all the vintage US manufacturers.
But Crosman will be the first book.
PS:
I plan to source what I consider the most important points, but there is so much information, I will be unable to source every fact in the book or the source section alone would exceed the size of the book. I have over 50,000 files of information. If someone choose to not believe something because I did not source it, SO BE IT. I'm not going to worry about it.
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Dave,
I am no expert and never claim to be one and if I was wrong so be it, you corrected it with information I did not have. I for one don’t doubt you or what you wrote, or say and I truly do look forward to what your research of the 50,000+ documents turns up as it will expand upon what is known or thought to be known about Crosman and their rifles.
Like I stated there are mysteries that surround this series of rifles and related topics such as production numbers for the 100, 101 and 102, barrel makers, was air rifle manufacturing 100% shutdown during WWII.
I find it fascinating a fifth logo variant exists and your post was the first reference I have seen indicating this and the fact that the premiere logo was used on 101’s produced for Montgomery Wards which may explain why those ones are hard to find.
Needless to say the small curved logo is not high on my search list as it appears my newly acquired Model 100 filled two voids.picture 1 is the large curve logo from my 101 made about 1947 and Picture 2 is from my Model 100.
Unfortunately now knowing the premiere logo and the straight logo were both used on the early Crosman 101’s of the same year(s)?, I don’t feel the need to pursue the premiere logo variant as much as before.
At this point I am looking forward to watching LOKEY get his early variant 101 up and running.
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It's still stuck. But I am not giving up.
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Regarding Crosman producing airguns during the war.
Crosman made airgun until early 1942 when need materials were unavailable and what few workers Crosman had went to war industries or the service.
Nothing made in 1943 other than Tojo paper targets and lead pellets
1944 was able to secure government contract to produce 1000 102 rifles for the OSS
1945 production restarted after end of War in August. a very few 101's were produced using prewar hardware and receivers
before new Merz redesign parts were available in early 1946.
1941 full production
1942 production stops after a few months
1943 no air rifle production
1944 production one thousand 102's only with round .22 ball shot ammo
1945 production after August assemble from prewar hardware and receivers.
1946 production large pellet logo
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This is specifically addressed to Elroy and Dan
I have acquired DT Fletcher complete paper collection of Crosman and Benjamin paper to add to my own.
I have been researching this stuff for the last couple of years part time since I still have a fulltime job. I'd like to get it done faster,
but I am just finding so much information its taking lots of time just organizing it. I do not use anecdotal information floating around the internet because I have found that alot of it is wrong. The vast bulk of information I have is from period documents and articles. I acquired an enormous amount of Crosman and Benjamin Documents. I have also bought many examples from all the manufacturers that I am investigating to examine and establish a time line. Examining examples is often the only way to establish were it fits in the history.
I do this because I enjoy the detective work involved with establishing the real history. Will I get it 100% right, of course not, but I feel it will be as accurate as possible based on documented facts and not someones hazy recollection from 30 or 40 years ago. I have been primarily working on Crosman right now and haven't even started to organize my Benjamin and Sheridan stuff. I do admit my research has given me a better appreciation of the Crosman Silent Rifle series. And better yet my work on this book has led me to meeting many old time collectors who have lots of information to pass on regarding many of these manufacturers .
Funny thing is, my research started when I picked up a couple of Plainsman rifles and later discovered practically everything on the internet about them was wrong.
That led me down the rabbit hole, and now I am researching all the vintage US manufacturers.
But Crosman will be the first book.
PS:
I plan to source what I consider the most important points, but there is so much information, I will be unable to source every fact in the book or the source section alone would exceed the size of the book. I have over 50,000 files of information. If someone choose to not believe something because I did not source it, SO BE IT. I'm not going to worry about it.
I appreciate your zeal and effort and your motivation to find and share the truth, and to do your best to gather disseminated information and organize it and piece it all together into "the truth". I am looking forward to the result.
I am sure there will always be some controversy about some facts but it sounds like you will have enough source material for your assertions to be highly regarded and respected.
Thank you.
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Just a question, Do I have to remove the pump chamber to reseal it? It is really in there. I tried heat yesterday with no luck. I am still trying but I was thinking if I could seal it without removing the chamber then I can still get it shooting. Thanks
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All you can do is try.
Worse comes to worse, send it off to Rick, at Precision Pellet. It'll be money well spent.
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I am with Longhunter, Rick would be my choice if I could not get the chamber out to upgragde to an o-ring type.
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Don, don’t take this the wrong way if you already tried everything. But, are you using a half inch wood dowel and a fairly large hammer. Not the standard household nail puller.
The dowel I picked up from a local hardware store was 1/2” but it measured 5/8” diameter which is about perfect. With the stock off and the rifle upright with the receiver on a hard wood block setting on a strong work bench that’s the best you can do. Maybe have a buddy hold the rifle while you give it a few good wraps with the hammer. You should cut the dowel down whereby about six or more is sticking out of the pump tube.
Rick mentioned having a really hard time when he did one of his early guns but he did finally get it out.
Sorry if you have already tried this. That old expression applies - get a bigger hammer!
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Lokey
Gary beat me to it, of the two he posted I have replaced the leather pump assembly with the synthetic/rubber cup and have no regrets switching. Rick at precision pellet sells the complete assembly with the rubber cup and recommended using it over leather as it increases the velocity and cup is easier to replace if needed. He also sells them for far less than JG, but JG site has bailed me out many times on the various rifles I own.
If you are wanting to keep things original, I have a pump assembly if you need it, it’s yours.
I didn't reply to your offer because I was trying to decide how to go with this. I think I am going to go with the rubber cup or some type of rubber seal. I have cutters that can make rubber pieces that can replace the leather on the original pump. I am going to try this and if it doesn't work I may switch to the rubber cup. We will see. Thank you very much for the offer, That's really nice of you.
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Well I never got the actual pump chamber out but I did get the guts out of it. I really don't think that the pump chamber will leak air around it like it is so I am going to replace the seals in it like it is and see how it goes. Here are pics of the parts out of it. Any advise on how to do this would be great. To clean up the valve seat way down inside it I am going to try a gun cleaning kit using the screw on cotton swab for a large bore gun. In my last pic could I use an O-Ring to seal that part?
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Lokey,
No problem on the offer. As for the chamber removal, while I suggest sending to Rick, Gary is spot on with the “Use a Bigger Hammer” this is exactly what I did on my really tough chamber removal, I went from using a 10 ounce hammer to a 12 pound sledge, when I did this it only took 2 or 3 good solid strikes on the dowel to break the chamber free of the tube.
As for your old seals, I am curious to know if that is old dry rotted red rubber seals, I only ask as it looks like someone may have used red loctite where it does not belong.
Your question about using a rubber o-ring to seal the exhaust valve chamber with the air chamber is one I have wondered about as well. However, I have no answer as I always buy a seal kit with seals that are most applicable to the 101 from Rick.
However, I do have one 101 to seal and I may try a rubber one just to see if it makes a difference, if not another kit will be on its way.
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Lokey,
I just finished up testing the idea of using a rubber o-ring seal between the air chamber and exhaust valve. As long as the o-ring diameter fits inside the groove it should work. I used a high performance metric o-ring with an inside diameter of 14mm and a section thickness of 2.5mm. I did not velocity test due to lateness of this post 12:30am MST, but it does not leak any air or have blow by when pumping with the gun cocked.
This one has a lighter exhaust valve spring typically found in late models and yours has the big thick egg/football shaped brass spring. Before the o-ring update I could not get more than 6 pumps in it, anymore and air would blow by. Now I am able to put 8 pumps in it with no problem and I put 10 in it 1 time just because. In both instances it dumped all its air so the internal parts are going their job. Going forward I will stick with 6 or 8 pumps on this one. Thanks for the motivation to experiment tonight, and I hope this helps you with your project.
PS: I have put 2 pumps into it and will check for leak down in the morning.
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Elroy, I have wondered about going with the big o-ring too. Any idea of the duro? I’d think it needs to be fairly hard.
Anyway, thanks for sharing. All these results are very helpful for the community at large.
Lokey, you can certainly try to clean it with the compression chamber in place and I hope it works. I can’t help but think the nature of the original seal will be problematic. The reason is it’s so hard to clean even with the chamber fully removed. It’s just stuck on like glue. From your pictures the sealing surface actually looked pretty clean so maybe you’ll be okay.
Thanks for sharing your progress.
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Lokey,
I just finished up testing the idea of using a rubber o-ring seal between the air chamber and exhaust valve. As long as the o-ring diameter fits inside the groove it should work. I used a high performance metric o-ring with an inside diameter of 14mm and a section thickness of 2.5mm. I did not velocity test due to lateness of this post 12:30am MST, but it does not leak any air or have blow by when pumping with the gun cocked.
This one has a lighter exhaust valve spring typically found in late models and yours has the big thick egg/football shaped brass spring. Before the o-ring update I could not get more than 6 pumps in it, anymore and air would blow by. Now I am able to put 8 pumps in it with no problem and I put 10 in it 1 time just because. In both instances it dumped all its air so the internal parts are going their job. Going forward I will stick with 6 or 8 pumps on this one. Thanks for the motivation to experiment tonight, and I hope this helps you with your project.
PS: I have put 2 pumps into it and will check for leak down in the morning.
Cool I think I might go that way on that part. Let me know about leak down. Thanks
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Lokey,
No problem on the offer. As for the chamber removal, while I suggest sending to Rick, Gary is spot on with the “Use a Bigger Hammer” this is exactly what I did on my really tough chamber removal, I went from using a 10 ounce hammer to a 12 pound sledge, when I did this it only took 2 or 3 good solid strikes on the dowel to break the chamber free of the tube.
As for your old seals, I am curious to know if that is old dry rotted red rubber seals, I only ask as it looks like someone may have used red loctite where it does not belong.
Your question about using a rubber o-ring to seal the exhaust valve chamber with the air chamber is one I have wondered about as well. However, I have no answer as I always buy a seal kit with seals that are most applicable to the 101 from Rick.
However, I do have one 101 to seal and I may try a rubber one just to see if it makes a difference, if not another kit will be on its way.
It's old red seals not loctite. I was thinking of using a larger hammer but was scared I would damage something. If I get it to seal as is I don't see a reason to remove it.
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Gary and Lokey,
This is what I used: https://www.amazon.com/BUSY-CORNER-Universal-Standard-Professional-Automotive/dp/B08DWHMH9V/ref=psdc_3226856011_t1_B07WRF9YYC (https://www.amazon.com/BUSY-CORNER-Universal-Standard-Professional-Automotive/dp/B08DWHMH9V/ref=psdc_3226856011_t1_B07WRF9YYC) (I purchased the SAE and Metric kits from our local ACE Hardware store).
High Quality: Made of Nitrile (NBR) 70 shore material,resistant to heat,low/high temperature,air,water,petroleum products,mineral oil and hydraulic fluids,natural gases,kerosene,silicone fluids,non-aromatic fuels and solvents.
What prompted me to try this last night is I knew I had an older one that still had the old style air chamber (non o-ring type) and it would not seal correctley or retain air when pumped. Funny thing was a few months ago I wondered if instead of using an air chamber with the o-ring on the outside if I moved the o-ring to inbetween the two parts would it provide a proper seal. What originally made me think about this is the old rochester design where they closed everything back up with solder in this thier threaded joint area, most information I saw on resealing them included the use of teflon tape to make the seal of the two parts instead of soldering.
I dont know why it took me so long to try this idea, but after reading Lokeys post, I just had to experiment on my 101 test rifle to answer the question, by putting that an o-ring in between the air chamber and exhaust valve put everything back together and as stated it works with no leaks. Also when putting the internals in (Check Valve, Spring Retainer (not typically used with football shaped springs) and Check Valve Spring; I dropped the o-ring into place over the air chamber, followed by the exhaust valve stem assembly, the the Exhaust body and tightend it doawn with the body lock nut. Seeing the oring in the tube cover the chamber entirely vover the air chamber lip, makes me believe the o-ring also acts as the one found on the air chamber because ther is enough squish of the oring to touch the sides of the tube to prevent the blow by when pumping.
Important reminder when tightening everyting up make sure the transfer port and barrel opening are stay aligned by using a linup pin, nail or punch when tightening the body lock nut.
Just checked it this morning and it held air overnight so the seal works well enough to satisfy my needs and now puts a rifle I used just for experimentation into the shooting rotation instead of being my test bed gun. Oh well gives me a reason to look for a new tester.
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Interesting to note is that the early Crosman 101's, like yours, had an oil felt that wrapped around a groove in the compression body and tied with a string.(see pics) The replacements that come in rebuild kits are a solid ring punched out from a felt pad. The cheaper ones are prone to tear while stretching it over the larger part of the comp. body. That's because the replacements are made for post-war models in which the compression body had a removable washer that held the felt in place. (see pics for comparison)
The original pre-war pump washers were punched out of 1/4 inch leather and have an expander to spread it for a tighter seal in the tube. Notice the holes in the compression head in the earlier one. These holes allow air to be forced in behind the leather washer during the pump stroke to also help with a tighter seal. If you plan to use a later style rubber pump cup, then the compression head should be swapped out for a later style. (see pic)
The compression chambers can be extremely tight in the tube, especially in the earlier production models. Parts were, more or less, custom fit to individual rifles it seems. Post-war rifles not so much.... Good news is that it doesn't necessarily have to come out. Just swab it and the compression tube out well. You can use mineral spirits to break up the grime inside without damaging any paint.
If you do end up taking it out, then some teflon tape will work as a seal when reinstalled. I have seen a few different types of string used from the factory to seal the compression chamber in the tube. The example in the attached pic appears to be asbestos string. See the frayed strands.
The gasket used to seal between the valve body and air chambers were also asbestos. These are difficult to remove and normally come out in pieces. The tool I use to remove it is made from an old razor blade. Make sure you clean that groove well. I see some gasket remnants in your photos.
Good luck
Steven
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I love it Elroy. You ruined a perfectly good test gun. Haha.
I wanted to use my 102 as a test bed, but parts has sort of limited how many iterations I can practically test. I wanted to find the best rebuild with test results and then restore the whole rifle. I still plan to do this it’s just taken longer than expected.
I may go back to an original design using the football shaped spring. For now I’ll follow through to see if I can improve using the new design internals.
Lokey, There’s just something special about these old airguns. Keep us posted.
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Don,
Thank you for posting all the pics. Kinda looks like somebody used red RTV to try to make seals at some point; but other than that, your rifle has all the original hardware including the valve components.
I'd like to add your rifle to the database if you don't mind.
Also, could you tell me if the air intake hole is on the left or right side? It looks like on the right, but hard to tell in your pic.
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Don,
Thank you for posting all the pics. Kinda looks like somebody used red RTV to try to make seals at some point; but other than that, your rifle has all the original hardware including the valve components.
I'd like to add your rifle to the database if you don't mind.
Also, could you tell me if the air intake hole is on the left or right side? It looks like on the right, but hard to tell in your pic.
It's on the right side. If you need more info on it just ask. Thanks
-
Interesting to note is that the early Crosman 101's, like yours, had an oil felt that wrapped around a groove in the compression body and tied with a string.(see pics) The replacements that come in rebuild kits are a solid ring punched out from a felt pad. The cheaper ones are prone to tear while stretching it over the larger part of the comp. body. That's because the replacements are made for post-war models in which the compression body had a removable washer that held the felt in place. (see pics for comparison)
The original pre-war pump washers were punched out of 1/4 inch leather and have an expander to spread it for a tighter seal in the tube. Notice the holes in the compression head in the earlier one. These holes allow air to be forced in behind the leather washer during the pump stroke to also help with a tighter seal. If you plan to use a later style rubber pump cup, then the compression head should be swapped out for a later style. (see pic)
The compression chambers can be extremely tight in the tube, especially in the earlier production models. Parts were, more or less, custom fit to individual rifles it seems. Post-war rifles not so much.... Good news is that it doesn't necessarily have to come out. Just swab it and the compression tube out well. You can use mineral spirits to break up the grime inside without damaging any paint.
If you do end up taking it out, then some teflon tape will work as a seal when reinstalled. I have seen a few different types of string used from the factory to seal the compression chamber in the tube. The example in the attached pic appears to be asbestos string. See the frayed strands.
The gasket used to seal between the valve body and air chambers were also asbestos. These are difficult to remove and normally come out in pieces. The tool I use to remove it is made from an old razor blade. Make sure you clean that groove well. I see some gasket remnants in your photos.
Good luck
Steven
Steven, that picture of your valve body shows the asbestos material and what appears to be an o-ring too. How would you seal this style?
Thanks for sharing your build.
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Okay I have been looking at the seals on JG and I am not sure which one I need for the intake. The others are self explanatory but he does not show a part number on his pic. Plus his pic is for 1949 and newer guns. Could one of you guys steer me in the right direction. Thanks
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Lokey, are you referring to the check valve assembly that slides down into the compression chamber? If this is the case I’d order that through Rick “precision pellet”.
JG doesn’t list this thatI can see. Maybe they do have them and you could ask.
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Lokey, are you referring to the check valve assembly that slides down into the compression chamber? If this is the case I’d order that through Rick “precision pellet”.
JG doesn’t list this thatI can see. Maybe they do have them and you could ask.
Thanks I will try them.
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Lokey, are you referring to the check valve assembly that slides down into the compression chamber? If this is the case I’d order that through Rick “precision pellet”.
JG doesn’t list this thatI can see. Maybe they do have them and you could ask.
Thanks I will try them.
Sent him an Email. We will see?
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Interesting to note is that the early Crosman 101's, like yours, had an oil felt that wrapped around a groove in the compression body and tied with a string.(see pics) The replacements that come in rebuild kits are a solid ring punched out from a felt pad. The cheaper ones are prone to tear while stretching it over the larger part of the comp. body. That's because the replacements are made for post-war models in which the compression body had a removable washer that held the felt in place. (see pics for comparison)
The original pre-war pump washers were punched out of 1/4 inch leather and have an expander to spread it for a tighter seal in the tube. Notice the holes in the compression head in the earlier one. These holes allow air to be forced in behind the leather washer during the pump stroke to also help with a tighter seal. If you plan to use a later style rubber pump cup, then the compression head should be swapped out for a later style. (see pic)
The compression chambers can be extremely tight in the tube, especially in the earlier production models. Parts were, more or less, custom fit to individual rifles it seems. Post-war rifles not so much.... Good news is that it doesn't necessarily have to come out. Just swab it and the compression tube out well. You can use mineral spirits to break up the grime inside without damaging any paint.
If you do end up taking it out, then some teflon tape will work as a seal when reinstalled. I have seen a few different types of string used from the factory to seal the compression chamber in the tube. The example in the attached pic appears to be asbestos string. See the frayed strands.
The gasket used to seal between the valve body and air chambers were also asbestos. These are difficult to remove and normally come out in pieces. The tool I use to remove it is made from an old razor blade. Make sure you clean that groove well. I see some gasket remnants in your photos.
Good luck
Steven
Steven, that picture of your valve body shows the asbestos material and what appears to be an o-ring too. How would you seal this style?
Thanks for sharing your build.
That's a replacement rectangular rubber o-ring in the photo. Rick at Precision Pellet sells orange colored rectangular gaskets that can be used on both Crosman 10X series and also Benjamin 3XX, 31X and 34X models instead of the lead gaskets. They are a plastic material possibly Delrin, but don't know that as fact.
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Good info Steven. Thanks for getting back.
Reason I asked is I ordered that style exhaust body to replace my damaged one that is a little different. I wasn’t sure if the orange seal alone would work.
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Don,
Thank you for posting all the pics. Kinda looks like somebody used red RTV to try to make seals at some point; but other than that, your rifle has all the original hardware including the valve components.
I'd like to add your rifle to the database if you don't mind.
Also, could you tell me if the air intake hole is on the left or right side? It looks like on the right, but hard to tell in your pic.
It's on the right side. If you need more info on it just ask. Thanks
Could I get a sharp photo of the top of the receiver with the bolt pullet back. Looking for any other stamps besides B1561 ?
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Good info Steven. Thanks for getting back.
Reason I asked is I ordered that style exhaust body to replace my damaged one that is a little different. I wasn’t sure if the orange seal alone would work.
There were several changes over the years on the valve bodies, so be aware when mixing parts from one rifle to another. Although I've only had on one occasion a valve body that did not mate up to a compression chamber, it can happen. There was no damage to either part. Could be I've had only one occurrence because I don't normally swap parts unless one is missing. Turned a small amount of material off the inner lip of the compression chamber to fixed the issue.
Bottom line is if your mixing parts then it might be a good idea to remove the compression chamber and make sure the valve body mates up tight. (see pic)
Steven
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You know the old saying, a picture is worth a thousand words. That line up is worthy! Thank you again for sharing.
I have wondered about your description of mixing parts and matching profiles.
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I believe I have all my parts ordered. When I get them We will see how it goes? I went with precision pellet. Thanks to everyone for all the help.
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Don,
Thank you for posting all the pics. Kinda looks like somebody used red RTV to try to make seals at some point; but other than that, your rifle has all the original hardware including the valve components.
I'd like to add your rifle to the database if you don't mind.
Also, could you tell me if the air intake hole is on the left or right side? It looks like on the right, but hard to tell in your pic.
It's on the right side. If you need more info on it just ask. Thanks
Could I get a sharp photo of the top of the receiver with the bolt pullet back. Looking for any other stamps besides B1561 ?
The only other mark I see is a P with a period behind it. Here are pics. What is this "Database" and can I see it?
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MAN I LOVE READING THIS THREAD!!!
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Lots of info in this ongoing thread! Thanks for the contributions for restoring, and the dating info.
I remember stumbling through restoring the 101 I found in an antique store in 2017, before I found this forum.
I'm in Florida for the winter, but will check for the serial number on the breech on mine when I return to Indiana in the spring. I believe I dated it late 40's from what I found at the time.
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Not intended to derail... but add to the collective group info gathering.
"Large Pellet" logo 101, wood forearm, serial # 1177.
I believe to be a post war 1946?
She is "On Deck" for rebuild this winter.
Seal Kit from "Henry Ford" in hand and buying the valve tool from Baker soon.
That is why I am following this amazing thread. ;)
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Not intended to derail... but add to the collective group info gathering.
"Large Pellet" logo 101, wood forearm, serial # 1177.
I believe to be a post war 1946?
She is "On Deck" for rebuild this winter.
Seal Kit from "Henry Ford" in hand and buying the valve tool from Baker soon.
That is why I am following this amazing thread. ;)
If you are a cheep (&#^((&^* like me you can make your own tool to remove the nut way down inside. It works great for me. I used a piece of plumbing pipe from home depot. It measures 11/16" OD 7/16" ID and 5" long. I cut the threaded area off one end and then I cut the 2 notches to fit the nut inside the gun. I used a hacksaw for the cuts. I made the notches larger than the notches in the gun and then used a metal file to get them the perfect size. Total cost just over $2.00. After removing the nut I just kept wiggling the brass tube sticking up and it eventually came right out. No damage to it at all.
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Thanks, that does the spanner nut...But what about the other end of the tool with the internal threads?
(https://www.bakerairguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/DSCN2164-600x450.jpg)
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Scott, the Crosman’s don’t use that internal thread. That tool is for another rifle. Maybe a Sheridan?
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My bad. That tool is for more than one Crosman.
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I am so confused now... I have the Sheridan / Benji soldered valve tool as I have rebuilt many.
The tool I posted is from Baker listed for the Crosman 101.
https://www.bakerairguns.com/product/t1-t5-tool-for-crosman/ (https://www.bakerairguns.com/product/t1-t5-tool-for-crosman/)
Is it the same as to what I already have for my soldered "Dans / Benji's?
No.. Mine has a "square" not two "spanner taps"?
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My bad. That tool is for more than one Crosman.
Gotchya! ;)
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I get confused too. What really messed with my head was when I ordered the Crosman tool from baker for my Crosman 102 and it didn’t work because they didn’t drill the hole deep enough to swallow the exhaust valve so I could remove the nut. Talk about getting short sheeted!
Anyway, they made good and sent me a correctly machined tool. They said sometimes that happens. The machinist messed up.
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Thanks, that does the spanner nut...But what about the other end of the tool with the internal threads?
(https://www.bakerairguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/DSCN2164-600x450.jpg)
I think that screws onto the brass piece sticking out and helps pull it out of the compression chamber. I just used a screwdriver and put it down inside past the threads. I kept wiggling it back and forth with the screwdriver. It slowly worked free and came right out with no damage at all to the part.
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Not intended to derail... but add to the collective group info gathering.
"Large Pellet" logo 101, wood forearm, serial # 1177.
I believe to be a post war 1946?
She is "On Deck" for rebuild this winter.
Seal Kit from "Henry Ford" in hand and buying the valve tool from Baker soon.
That is why I am following this amazing thread. ;)
Thanks fellow Hoosier. Serial 1177 is already on the chart, but would you mind posting or PM a pic of the plunger guide? Wondering if it has a red fiber jacket. Plus, let me know if it has a cork gasket between the stock and receiver when you tear into it.
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Don,
Thank you for posting all the pics. Kinda looks like somebody used red RTV to try to make seals at some point; but other than that, your rifle has all the original hardware including the valve components.
I'd like to add your rifle to the database if you don't mind.
Also, could you tell me if the air intake hole is on the left or right side? It looks like on the right, but hard to tell in your pic.
It's on the right side. If you need more info on it just ask. Thanks
Could I get a sharp photo of the top of the receiver with the bolt pullet back. Looking for any other stamps besides B1561 ?
The only other mark I see is a P with a period behind it. Here are pics. What is this "Database" and can I see it?
Thank you again Don for the added photos and information on your rifle.
The database is a collection of serial numbers and other characteristics in an effort to decipher and narrow down the years of production for the Crosman 10X models. All the data is plugged into a spreadsheet. Without getting into specifics, basically that data is then cross referenced with paperwork and Instruction manuals of the same era to extrapolate production times of specific serial number lots. A great number of rifles have been disassembled by myself and other contributors for inspection and comparison. It's impossible to purchase every Crosman rifle to get the information needed, so most of this data comes from other owners and collectors in the airgun community and is very much appreciated.
Steven
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Don,
Thank you for posting all the pics. Kinda looks like somebody used red RTV to try to make seals at some point; but other than that, your rifle has all the original hardware including the valve components.
I'd like to add your rifle to the database if you don't mind.
Also, could you tell me if the air intake hole is on the left or right side? It looks like on the right, but hard to tell in your pic.
It's on the right side. If you need more info on it just ask. Thanks
Could I get a sharp photo of the top of the receiver with the bolt pullet back. Looking for any other stamps besides B1561 ?
The only other mark I see is a P with a period behind it. Here are pics. What is this "Database" and can I see it?
Thank you again Don for the added photos and information on your rifle.
The database is a collection of serial numbers and other characteristics in an effort to decipher and narrow down the years of production for the Crosman 10X models. All the data is plugged into a spreadsheet. Without getting into specifics, basically that data is then cross referenced with paperwork and Instruction manuals of the same era to extrapolate production times of specific serial number lots. A great number of rifles have been disassembled by myself and other contributors for inspection and comparison. It's impossible to purchase every Crosman rifle to get the information needed, so most of this data comes from other owners and collectors in the airgun community and is very much appreciated.
Steven
So do you have an idea of where my serial number puts mine? I was reading another thread that said those marks where not serial numbers but they where put there by people that repaired it and the numbers had nothing to do with dating these guns? Anyway I hope they are wrong. Actually it is posted on the JG website. Here is the link.
https://www.jgairguns.biz/croman-serial-numbers-explained-ezp-36.html (https://www.jgairguns.biz/croman-serial-numbers-explained-ezp-36.html)
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Thanks, that does the spanner nut...But what about the other end of the tool with the internal threads?
(https://www.bakerairguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/DSCN2164-600x450.jpg)
I think that screws onto the brass piece sticking out and helps pull it out of the compression chamber. I just used a screwdriver and put it down inside past the threads. I kept wiggling it back and forth with the screwdriver. It slowly worked free and came right out with no damage at all to the part.
Don, What you mention about the purpose of the threaded end sounds right, but I just checked my baker tool with an exhaust body and it won’t screw into the tool. I looked at the tool threads and they look perfect and when I screw the nut to the exhaust body it is fine; not cross threaded.
Maybe somebody who has used this will chime in. I’d like to know myself.
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Thanks, that does the spanner nut...But what about the other end of the tool with the internal threads?
I think that screws onto the brass piece sticking out and helps pull it out of the compression chamber. I just used a screwdriver and put it down inside past the threads. I kept wiggling it back and forth with the screwdriver. It slowly worked free and came right out with no damage at all to the part.
That is what I assumed as well.... but with Gary's experience now I am wondering if there was a thread pitch change at some point.
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Don,
Thank you for posting all the pics. Kinda looks like somebody used red RTV to try to make seals at some point; but other than that, your rifle has all the original hardware including the valve components.
I'd like to add your rifle to the database if you don't mind.
Also, could you tell me if the air intake hole is on the left or right side? It looks like on the right, but hard to tell in your pic.
It's on the right side. If you need more info on it just ask. Thanks
Could I get a sharp photo of the top of the receiver with the bolt pullet back. Looking for any other stamps besides B1561 ?
The only other mark I see is a P with a period behind it. Here are pics. What is this "Database" and can I see it?
Thank you again Don for the added photos and information on your rifle.
The database is a collection of serial numbers and other characteristics in an effort to decipher and narrow down the years of production for the Crosman 10X models. All the data is plugged into a spreadsheet. Without getting into specifics, basically that data is then cross referenced with paperwork and Instruction manuals of the same era to extrapolate production times of specific serial number lots. A great number of rifles have been disassembled by myself and other contributors for inspection and comparison. It's impossible to purchase every Crosman rifle to get the information needed, so most of this data comes from other owners and collectors in the airgun community and is very much appreciated.
Steven
So do you have an idea of where my serial number puts mine? I was reading another thread that said those marks where not serial numbers but they where put there by people that repaired it and the numbers had nothing to do with dating these guns? Anyway I hope they are wrong. Actually it is posted on the JG website. Here is the link.
https://www.jgairguns.biz/croman-serial-numbers-explained-ezp-36.html (https://www.jgairguns.biz/croman-serial-numbers-explained-ezp-36.html)
That's the question most people want to know and the main reason for this quest. "What year was my Crosman manufactured."
In a nutshell.... After plotting these Letters and numbers on a chart, it has been determined that practically all Crosman 10X series do have what appear to be serial numbers, which can eventually identify year of manufacture. B1561 is the serial on your rifle. Some also have repair stamps. The "P." on yours for example, is an early repair stamp. Not sure what it means.
The data chart can also help determine what parts were original to a rifle if a person is inclined to restore it back to its original glory.
DWTrull has put a substantial amount of time and effort into identifying years of manufacture, so his reply in post three is probably spot on.
-
Don,
Thank you for posting all the pics. Kinda looks like somebody used red RTV to try to make seals at some point; but other than that, your rifle has all the original hardware including the valve components.
I'd like to add your rifle to the database if you don't mind.
Also, could you tell me if the air intake hole is on the left or right side? It looks like on the right, but hard to tell in your pic.
It's on the right side. If you need more info on it just ask. Thanks
Could I get a sharp photo of the top of the receiver with the bolt pullet back. Looking for any other stamps besides B1561 ?
The only other mark I see is a P with a period behind it. Here are pics. What is this "Database" and can I see it?
Thank you again Don for the added photos and information on your rifle.
The database is a collection of serial numbers and other characteristics in an effort to decipher and narrow down the years of production for the Crosman 10X models. All the data is plugged into a spreadsheet. Without getting into specifics, basically that data is then cross referenced with paperwork and Instruction manuals of the same era to extrapolate production times of specific serial number lots. A great number of rifles have been disassembled by myself and other contributors for inspection and comparison. It's impossible to purchase every Crosman rifle to get the information needed, so most of this data comes from other owners and collectors in the airgun community and is very much appreciated.
Steven
So do you have an idea of where my serial number puts mine? I was reading another thread that said those marks where not serial numbers but they where put there by people that repaired it and the numbers had nothing to do with dating these guns? Anyway I hope they are wrong. Actually it is posted on the JG website. Here is the link.
https://www.jgairguns.biz/croman-serial-numbers-explained-ezp-36.html (https://www.jgairguns.biz/croman-serial-numbers-explained-ezp-36.html)
That's the question most people want to know and the main reason for this quest. "What year was my Crosman manufactured."
In a nutshell.... After plotting these Letters and numbers on a chart, it has been determined that practically all Crosman 10X series do have what appear to be serial numbers, which can eventually identify year of manufacture. B1561 is the serial on your rifle. Some also have repair stamps. The "P." on yours for example, is an early repair stamp. Not sure what it means.
The data chart can also help determine what parts were original to a rifle if a person is inclined to restore it back to its original glory.
DWTrull has put a substantial amount of time and effort into identifying years of manufacture, so his reply in post three is probably spot on.
Very Nice! I love the history of these great shooters as much as shooting them. But I am a collector of antiques. I have an electric fan from 1882. It is the earliest known example of a commercially sold electric fan and it still runs!
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Very Nice! I love the history of these great shooters as much as shooting them. But I am a collector of antiques. I have an electric fan from 1882. It is the earliest known example of a commercially sold electric fan and it still runs!
The State of CA would slap a Prop 65 warning on that 1882 fan. ;) ;D
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Okay what kind of paint would you guys recommend for this? I know it's basically black. It looks like they used black japan like what was used on Stanley plans and old antique cast iron fans of that period? Thanks
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I've used Krylon satin black, with good results.
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I "plan" on using this on my 101
Have used it on many Motorcycle projects and it is a satin finish... VERY durable.
Available at any Auto-parts store.
(https://www.vhtpaint.com/images/products/Speciality_EpoxyAllWeatherPaint_220x580.png)
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The reason I asked is that if the original was Black Japan then I might try this. Black Dragon Gilsonite paint. It has the closest look to original black japan because like Black Japan it is made with Gilsonite as well. I know of several people that have used it on antique fans with great success.
https://www.jcwhitlam.com/Product/1/1603/89# (https://www.jcwhitlam.com/Product/1/1603/89#)
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ColorTone Nitrocellulose Guitar Lacquer, or Rustoleum Black Lacquer are good choices.
Lacquer goes on thinner and preserves more detail in the logo. The early steel barrels from the 20's were blued, not painted.
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I did a light sanding and oiled the wood. I was not trying to get rid of the imperfections but I think it looks better. Before and after pics
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BRAVO!
I am a firm believer in leaving some dents and dings in vintage pieces when I am refinishing.
It not only adds character, it preserves THAT guns life history.
IMHO your finish of choice and level of "restoration" is perfect!
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That does look better!
I like for a piece to still be able to tell its story. Especially after it has been returned to service.
Ride on,
J~
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Looking good. The pump lever should not look like a boomerang though.
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ColorTone Nitrocellulose Guitar Lacquer, or Rustoleum Black Lacquer are good choices.
Lacquer goes on thinner and preserves more detail in the logo. The early steel barrels from the 20's were blued, not painted.
This is kind of a peeve of mine. I used lacquer paints years ago so I’m familiar with it. I don’t like seeing enamel because it’s too thick and lacquer was common on early guns. It goes on so thin and looks great.
I know we can get lacquer at places like Lowes but where can we get the Nitrocellulose Guitar Lacquer? And what do you think of it compared to Rustoleum.
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Looking good. The pump lever should not look like a boomerang though.
I think it should have a slight bend. The pic you copied still has the part that connects to the pump rod connected to the handle and it is sticking up slightly making it look more bowed than it actually is. Here are better pics
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Its not uncommon for a 101 as old as yours to have a bent lever. Another comparison pic with a straight line for reference. Easily fixed if you have a wood vise and a little patience.
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The reason I asked is that if the original was Black Japan then I might try this. Black Dragon Gilsonite paint. It has the closest look to original black japan because like Black Japan it is made with Gilsonite as well. I know of several people that have used it on antique fans with great success.
https://www.jcwhitlam.com/Product/1/1603/89# (https://www.jcwhitlam.com/Product/1/1603/89#)
This is the old fan post right? ;)
Here are the ones I use, that still work great too.
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This is the old fan post right? ;)
If you say so....
(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/H41A74/senior-football-fan-happily-gesture-cheering-ball-portrait-sport-football-H41A74.jpg)
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The reason I asked is that if the original was Black Japan then I might try this. Black Dragon Gilsonite paint. It has the closest look to original black japan because like Black Japan it is made with Gilsonite as well. I know of several people that have used it on antique fans with great success.
https://www.jcwhitlam.com/Product/1/1603/89# (https://www.jcwhitlam.com/Product/1/1603/89#)
This is the old fan post right? ;)
Nice Fans. I like the bottom pic best
Here are the ones I use, that still work great too.
Nice Fans. I like the bottom pic best
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Well I got my parts today. I got it all back together ans shot it. I dumps all the air on 10 pumps. Here is a pic of my shots. Ignore the group I was shooting in the dark. Each shot seamed to get a little deeper into the board. I do not own a Chronograph so I have no idea on speed?
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Well it's raining here so I stood on my porch and took a couple shots. Aiming at the same spot and it almost stacks them from what I could see. It is a much more accurate rifle than I thought it would be. I can't wait for it to stop raining so I can really try and zero it in! Now the only thing left is to paint it and make it purty.
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I got to actually play with it today. It is more accurate than my Benjamin 342 for sure. In this pic I took about 8 shots slowly moving the sight as I shot. The last 3 shots are the 3 just slightly high on the 10 ring. These where about 25 feet. I am using Crosman Premier Hollow Point Hunting Pellets. I believe they are 14.3g pellets. They seam to group nice.
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Looking Good!
At 25 yards I would leave it there until you get a chance to stretch it out to further distance.
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Don, glad you are showing some accuracy groups and how the cheapie Crosman pellets are working for you. I’m curious what your results will look like when you stretch it out to 25 yards.
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Don, glad you are showing some accuracy groups and how the cheapie Crosman pellets are working for you. I’m curious what your results will look like when you stretch it out to 25 yards.
I am going to find that out on christmas. I am going to my brothers house and he lives in the county, I live in the city and am confined to my small back yard.
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The one I had wasn't picky. It shot the Crosman hp's and domes ,and RWS superdomes the best, though.
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last year I picked a 101 that had a lot of missing parts and needed a lot of TLC. It was a lot of fun rebuilding it and a real pleasure to shoot it once it was done. The only mistake that I made was replacing the trigger spring, with a litter one, because I thought that it was too hard to pull, I quickly reinstalled the original spring because it would fire just looking at it, after it was cocked. :o It turned out to be a great show piece and a lot of fun to shoot.
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The one I had wasn't picky. It shot the Crosman hp's and domes ,and RWS superdomes the best, though.
Thanks for the advise. All I have right now is the cheap premier pellets but I am going to have to try some others as well.
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Well I didn't get to shoot at my brothers house so I set up a target at 20 yards in my front yard. I didn't shoot much because I didn't want my neighbors calling the cops because I am in the city. I took 11 shots and slowly go better as I went. 1 shot in the 5 ring (First shot) then 3 in the 7 ring, then 3 in the 8 then 3 in the 9 and one in the 10. I quit because people started walking by with their dogs and the stainless steel back stop I was using was ringing like a bell. I was impressed that it dented the stainless back stop. As the pellets struck the target they flattened and slid down between the paper target and steel. They mushroomed pretty consistently. I think I need better pellets and I just might get a better group or it could be that my almost 60 year old but just can't shoot anymore!
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Don what was your shooting position? Sitting, standing, off hand? If you were shooting quickly trying to keep from being noticed and with a offhand position then maybe your groups weren’t so much the rifle but your stance and nerves.
I’ve had to shoot in the front yard before and made it quick. Once I caught a neighbor doing the same thing and he tried to hide his airgun even though he knew I wasn’t a problem. It was funny seeing him squirm a little.
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I was sitting at a table but I was still nervous and shooting quicker than normal. To many liberals live around me and I know they would call the cops.
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I just ordered some of the RWS superdomes. We will see how they do when I get them. Ether way with how it shoots now I would have no problem squirrel hunting with it.
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I also ordered some RWS Superpoint Extra Field Line Pellets .22 Caliber, 14.5 Grain after reading this review of the 101. We will see how the 3 different types will shoot when I get the other 2.
On a side note I have never tried different pellets in my Benjamin 342 so I see that coming as well ;)
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2016/06/crosman-101-multi-pump-pneumatic-part-3/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2016/06/crosman-101-multi-pump-pneumatic-part-3/)
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Shooting the RWS Pellets are much better. After adjusting the sights I finally grouped them in a dime sized area at 20 yards. Yea those Crosman premiers do not perform near as well. The pic is the Superpoints. It is amazing how well this 95 year old pumper shoots. I am sure in younger hands it would be even better!