GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Guns And Related Accessories Review Gates => Air Gun Review Gate => Topic started by: Smaug2 on November 29, 2021, 02:08:24 AM
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These first posts will be about construction and overall build quality.
To start with, here is Stoeger's page on the rifle, which has a very high quality overall zoom-able side view: https://usa.stoegerairguns.com/s8000-tac-suppressed-airgun
Day 1:
- Check the stock screws
- Mount the scope
- Loctite all screws that thread into metal
- Overall build quality commentary
- Stock Design
STOCK SCREWS: (9/10) Right off the bat, we notice the hardware is a step up from the very entry level springers, as the barrel pivot screws are socket head instead of Phillips, and they are supplied with washers for smooth pivoting. They are also the right length so that several threads are engaged. Backing them out, we also see that Stoeger took the time to(blue) thread-lock them, so they have some chance of staying put. The rear stock screw (the large one behind the trigger) has a #3 Phillips head. Backing this one out, it had Loctite, but also a bunch of oil, which will undermine the Loctite. (see pix)
SCOPE, MOUNTING, ETC.: (8/10) This rifle includes a set of medium height 11 mm dovetail, 1" rings to match the included Stoeger-branded 3-9x40 AO scope. The rings are of good quality, a step above the standard UTG/Leapers. They have a clever stop pin arrangement: the pins are not adjustable height, but just reversible. Put them in one way and the stop pins are hidden inside the mount. Flip it around and they protrude downward. There's a spring to keep tension on the dovetail clamp screw. (see pic) These rings just allow the front (objective) of the scope to clear the piston housing. If you want anything bigger than a 40 mm objective, you'll need high rings.
The scope is very clear edge to edge and focuses down to 10 yards. The focusing action is well-damped. The windage and elevation are finger-adjustable by the turrets in 1/4 MoA clicks, however, the turrets don't lock, so you'll need to be careful not to bump them. They are well-damped too though, so it will take more than just a touch to knock them out of position. The reticle is a duplex, but without any hold-over points. None of the screws on the rings had thread-locker on them, so I added it before mounting the scope.
OVERALL BUILD QUALITY COMMENTARY: (10/10) The gun is very well put-together. The hardware is a cut above what we're used to seeing on Crosman/Benjamin and Hatsan Springers. The stock is especially nice. It had had a lot of thought put into its design. The molding is precise with no untrimmed flashing to spoil it, and the plastic doesn't feel cheap.
The moderator is covered in plastic. No sights are provided; this gun's meant to be scoped. The housing over the moderator has checkering, to make it easier to hold onto while cocking the gun.
STOCK DESIGN: (10/10) This is the main thing (so far) that sets this gun apart from its competitors. It has a lot of cool details, and here again, we can see that someone took the time to engineer something new with lots of thoughtful details.
The length of pull (stock length from grip to butt) is adjustable by removing one or both of the spacers. I like it as short as it will go. (I'm 5'8" tall) That made the gun balance nicely for me, and put my head in the right position to get a full sight picture with the scope set to 9X when mounted all the way back.
The height of the cheekpiece is adjustable too, by means of removing a screw, sliding the cheekpiece up until another hole lines up. The cheekpiece elevation holes have brass threaded inserts. When the cheekpiece is removed, we can see there are two small compartments that could be used to store some small items. I like it all the way down, as this lines up the head for a good sight picture. (see pix)
The fore-end has two removeable grip panels and the pistol grip has another one. Installed from the factory are the black ones, which have rather sharp checkering. Included are a set of blue and orange ones, whose grip texture is smoother and less aggressive. I went with the blue ones with mild grip traction, as I'm not having any tactical fantasies and I find the splash of color refreshing. Note that under the pistol grip is another hollow area that could be used for storing some small item(s). (see pic) This is changed by removing the allen head screw and just sliding it down off of the frame.
At the front end of the stock on either side are two threaded brass inserts. These are for mounting the included picatinny rails. One would be able to mount a laser, flashlight or front sling swivel. The butt of the stock has a slot in it for a sling, too.
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In the next installment, the thread-locker will be dry and I can start breaking it in. It shouldn't take too long, as its powerplant is a gas strut, not a spring. I'll clean the barrel first of course to get any grease or oil out of the bore and minimize dieseling.
I'm curious to see how the scope & mounts hold their position. I feel like a one-piece mount should've been provided, but maybe the individual ones, with the rear one having a stop pin to engage the slot milled in the top of the piston housing will be up to the task.
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Excellent review Jeremy, I'll be following along to see how it shoots for you. That severe "pistol grip" wrist angle looks uncomfortable. I do like the adjustability of it though because of my size. Made in China?
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Excellent review Jeremy, I'll be following along to see how it shoots for you. That severe "pistol grip" wrist angle looks uncomfortable. I do like the adjustability of it though because of my size. Made in China?
To me, it's less severe.
It is a right angle to the axis of the barrel, which is how our hands naturally line up.
To me, the old style grip angle, where one's wrist has to be canted forward, was more to make the shape of the stock less angular, so it slides in and out of a saddle holster or case easier, rather than to adapt to human anatomy.
When shooting offhand, either grip angle will work. When shooting from a bench, that forward cant is very uncomfortable.
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Suggestions for Improvement #1:
- Include low-profile thumb screws for the pistol grip cover and cheekpiece cover, so that these can reasonably be used for storage when in the field.
- Control the oil that gets to the rear-most stock screw, so that the thread locker there will bond to the metal surfaces
- Update the scope's reticle to have some kind of hold-over points. Half mil dot would be great. A lit reticle would also be good, even if it just has a single dim red setting. (it may seem like fluff to some, but a lit reticle is GREAT for the nighttime pests, even just a dim red setting would be great)
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Tonight, I cleaned the barrel and started the break-in. This brown grease was quite stubborn to get out of the bore. I used a pull-through soaked in some PB solvent, but that barely made a dent in the grease. I switched to old faithful Goo-Gone; pulled a wet patch through, let it soak in for a few minutes, then pulled a dry patch. Pulled another Goo-Gone soaked patch through again, let it sit again, then pulled through a .22 bore snake. The brown was getting less, but not quite all gone.
I tried the trigger adjustment. The screw was inaccessible. If I used the rear hole in the trigger guard, I would have stripped the screw head, so I drilled a new hole. The drill bit wandered a bit, but the angle was still so much better that it worked fine. I loosened that screw and it barely made a difference in the trigger pull weight. It's one of those triggers that keeps pulling and pulling and you don't know when it's going to break, but it is a steady pull; no stacking.
Speaking of the trigger, it's the type that doesn't let you know when it's going to break; it just keeps pulling and pulling, but doesn't stack, at least.
I shot probably 100 rounds. It is still early to be measuring groups. The first 50 rounds or so, it was still smoking pretty heavily between shots. There was no detonation; just smoke. After that, it started to settle down and smoke less.
I found it odd that it doesn't like JSB Heavies (18.1 gr.) but it does like Baracudas. (21 gr.) It does OK with Crosman Premier domes, but as usual with this pellet, it throws about 1 out of 5 to wreck the group. Best group by far was from the Baracuda Match 5.53, with a not-that-impressive 1/4" 5-shot 10 yard group.
Note that it shot almost as well seated offhand as it did off of a rest. Interesting; that means it's hold-sensitive.
Attached are some pix.
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So it's not a real 2 stage trigger? How heavy is the break? The old Stoegers X-series accepted a Tuna trigger if I remember correctly?
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So it's not a real 2 stage trigger? How heavy is the break? The old Stoegers X-series accepted a Tuna trigger if I remember correctly?
Not really. It's one long, heavy stage with a surprise break. At least it's not gritty and stacked, though. I don't have a pull gauge, but it's just short of the point where you'd start to shake from pulling it so hard. Maybe 5 lbs.
Yeah, I put a CDT trigger into my old Stoeger X20 and that made it brilliant.
I have an X20 S2 I bought from someone else with a CDT trigger in it, and it's great too. It's not that accurate, but at least it's not the trigger's fault, hehehe.
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Crosman Premier Domes, 14.3 gr.
1 708
2 712
3 705
4 702
5 706
6 712
7 714
8 707
9 714
10 714
Avg. 709
ES 12
SD 4
Avg FPE 15.97
H&N Baracuda Match, 5.53 mm head, 21.1 gr.
1 557
2 564
3 584
4 557
5 558
6 556
7 563
8 559
9 564
10 571
Avg 563
ES 28
SD 8
Avg FPE 14.85
H&N Sniper Magnum domes, 17.9 gr.
1 644
2 615
3 640
4 640
5 622
6 630
7 634
8 637
9 624
10 626
Avg 631
ES 29
SD 9
Avg FPE 15.83
This data tells us it's not really a magnum springer, as it's only shooting about 15 FPE. That's fine with me, as long as it's accurate. 15 FPE is more than enough to put the smack down on a nutter.
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Interesting the ES was the same on 2 pellets and 1/2 the ES with the Crosmans.
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Interesting the ES was the same on 2 pellets and 1/2 the ES with the Crosmans.
I know! What's frustrating with the Crosman Premier pellets lately is that they are very consistent, when it comes to velocity, but for some reason, there's a flyer about every 5-6 shots, which ruins a lot of groups. I have to settle for higher ES figures from the other pellets, because they have better manufacturing quality.
CP ends up being relegated to plinking and break-in ammo because of this. :(
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As I continue with break-in, I shot five more groups today; here they are. (Details are marked on the targets)
I don’t take the blame for the wild flyers; those are the Crosman pellets or the rifle. Next time I shoot it, I’m going to shoot a more consistent pellet; If I still get the wild flyers, then I guess I will have to take the blame.
The trigger is smoothing out nicely.
The dieseling is going down too; It still smells smoky, but I don’t see it coming out the end of the barrel when i blow into the breech between shots anymore.
I experimented with some different holds. It doesn’t seem to do any better with a proper artillery hold than it does with more of a firm hold. The forward hand position doesn’t seem to matter much, either. To me, that’s kind of nice; I don’t like to have to think so hard about my hold when I’m shooting an airgun.
The scope and rings are holding up fine and aren’t moving. I’m really impressed with the quality of the scopes that Stoeger gets. They are nothing fancy, but I can really tell that there is actually some quality control in place. Fit and finish are good. Fit of Allen wrenches in the screw heads is good.
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I shot about another 50 rounds tonight, and tried some new pellets.
It’s getting better and better.
CPHP seen to string vertically no matter WHAT I do. They’re out.
18 gr are too heavy; they’re out too.
H&N Baracuda 15 seem to be the favorite, so far. PolyMag were also quite good.
I shot a bunch of ten yard groups on a sheet of cardboard, then a ten meter, ten shot group standing offhand.
The gun seems to shoot better offhand than rested.
See annotated targets attached.
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I got home from work today just in time to shoot a few groups at 25 yards in the back yard before sundown.
I was sitting on the floor, leaning against the wall, shooting off of my knees, but with the gun rested on my hand, not the knee. No wind.
With the Baracuda 15, I shot two groups:
1.75” (0.75” w/o flyer)
3.4” (1.66” without flyer)
RWS Superdome 14.5 gr., 1.24”, no flyers
CPHP 14.3 gr.: 1.82”, no flyers
See attached targets.
I have a feeling this gun could be really good, if only it had a better trigger. From the box, plan on 1.5” groups at 25 yards, if fed its favorite pellets and shot from a rest.
It’s enough accuracy to drill a squirrel in the lungs at 25 yards, but not enough to go for head shots.
I’ll continue shooting it to make sure it’s broken in. After the new year, I’ll shoot it from a rest indoors at 30 yards and see what I
it can do.
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I did the video today, here she is:
https://youtu.be/wrr4NiGUZk8
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I consider this officially broken-in now, as I shot it a bunch more over Christmas.
For now, the review is un-sponsored as I plan on returning the gun to them. I my guy says to keep it, I'll buy and install the GRT III and let our guys know it fits for their ad page.
If I need to return the gun, I won't go to the trouble and expense. I'm hoping he says to keep it, as I'm curious to find out!
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Word of note because I was just talking to a Stoeger Customer Service Rep today trying to find a piston seal for a .22 cal ATAC Suppressor rifle
that was given to me a couple weeks back.....
I was told that while they had a few odds and ends left (he did have a few of the seals left I need), the bulk of their parts had already been
pulled since Stoeger would no longer be doing any warranty/repair work to their air guns, would no longer be selling parts and even the Tech
who just spent a month being trained on how to repair them had already been let go.
You may want to double check with "your guy" and see what he says because if true, it's going to leave owners scrambling trying to find
aftermarket parts or parts from other gun makers that will work.
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I'm waiting to hear back from him. Hopefully, he's just on vacation still...
It would be a shame if these didn't take off. It absolutely DESTROYS my Hatsan AirTact in fit and finish...
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It would be a shame if these didn't take off. It absolutely DESTROYS my Hatsan AirTact in fit and finish...
Most rifles destroy the AirTact in well...most categories. What did you expect for a half plastic $120 rifle...lol.
I'm just curious to see what the guy you're dealing with has to say about what I was told.
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It would be a shame if these didn't take off. It absolutely DESTROYS my Hatsan AirTact in fit and finish...
Most rifles destroy the AirTact in well...most categories. What did you expect for a half plastic $120 rifle...lol.
Well, my Crosman Diamondback is loads better in terms of fit & finish than the AirTact too, and it cost about the same. I have to admit though, that the AirTact is the most accurate of all three of these guns! (even though the trigger is also the worst)
I'm just curious to see what the guy you're dealing with has to say about what I was told.
Well, I sent him a link to this thread a while ago. Maybe he'll join up and chime in!
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Posting a last batch of targets.
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Trigger in the AirTact is actually quite adjustable compared to the ones in the older Edge rifles it replaced.
mikeyb wrote a very good article on how to do it and get a real nice trigger.