GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Hatsan Airguns => Topic started by: SteveP-52 on October 21, 2021, 12:31:33 AM
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I've been tinkering on and off with a .25 cal refurb I spent a whopping $40 for so if I screwed something up (I did...lol) I wouldn't be out much. The screw up was stripping the barrel pivot screw head. Whoever put it in there apparently did not want it to ever come back out and after trying every other way I could think of, ended up drilling it to get it out and the barrel off. Problem there was I drilled more than a bit off so now the right side barrel fork has an oval shaped hole instead of a round, threaded one. Only fix I can think of there is to get someone to weld that hole, then drill and re-tap if I decide to, since I have a brand new barrel pivot screw for it.
The guess until now for the few of us who own them is except for a few pieces, the entire thing was synthetic. I can now say that's correct. The breech block/shroud assembly is all one big molded piece that was then fitted for the parts and pieces in it. I won't detail all the dumb stuff I did to find out what I'm about to type, I'll just type it the way you need to do things should you decide you want to...lol. I'm also going to do this in separate posts just to break the pictures up.
I'll start with the moderator. It's actually baffled and they're removeable. If you look at the very front of the shroud, you'll see 2 roll pins. Punch those out (not so easy when you don't have roll pin punches but I'll be buying a set) and that front cap pops off to allow easy access to the baffle setup, which is all one piece and should just slide out. As you can see in the pics, they were molded in halves, then snapped together during assembly. Maybe just easier to mold that way?? Mine is in pieces because not realizing at the time about those roll pins, I got a Dremel out and started cutting. Don't do that, don't need to...lol.
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Now that you got all that out of the way, look down inside the shroud and you'll see a nut and washer. The end of the barrel is threaded and they're what's holding the barrel in place. The nut comes off with an 11/16's socket, at which point I took the ratchet extension off, flipped it, slid it down over the end of the barrel, a few taps with a hammer and the whole thing popped out the breech end of the shroud. That end stays put with the large head on the breech end of the barrel which also has the breech seal in it.
Not a clue if they molded them with the barrel in place or it was put in later, but it does pop out of there fairly easy.
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On to the barrel locking wedge and rear sights...lol.
The only thing holding that locking wedge in place is the barrel pivot screw and the wedge is notched for it. It's a snug fit and took a pair of pliers to pull out so should be no worries about losing it and no pins or set screws to remove if you want to clean it up and re-lube it, just the pain of pulling the pivot screw to do it.
For the rear sights, the barrel block is molded for attaching them. The front is held in place with a small pin. The back has the small threaded insert you can see in the picture the elevation knob screws into. Careful there because it slides out entirely too easy and I picked it off the floor 4 times just for tipping even a little to one side or the other.
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I originally thought screw went through the synthetic block but after getting it cleaned up and the metal block shims off, I found the barrel pivot screw actually rides inside a pressed in metal sleeve, which while I was drilling, I actually drilled about half of it off.
The only other metal part on there is the cocking arm and metal pin that holds it, but even that's pinned through the molded synthetic on the underside of the block.
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A couple last notes on things I found along the way.
The receiver doesn't have milled dovetails in it, probably because the AirTact has that slide on picatinny rail. That sleeve is held in place at the rear by the end cap/trigger assembly pin and on the front by a grub screw that they did drill a small hole for on the top of the receiver. There are also some minor differences in the cutouts on the bottom of the receiver since the AirTact and Edge use 2 different trigger packs, so the receivers aren't interchangeable without making some mods to that slot.
Also, once I finally got the barrel off and piston out, I compared it to one from an Edge and they're the same, so if push came to shove, you could use an Edge piston and seal in an AirTact. The piston on the left with the orange seal is from the AirTact. The one on the right is from an Edge.
Now that I've bored you silly, I'll quit here but for anyone out there who owns one, you now at least know a whole bunch more about them.
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Great article Steve.
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Thanks Steve!
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A few more pics to add and because this actually won't be an all in one thread without the spring/trigger pack info, soooo.....
Couple more of the barrel/shroud assembly. The barrel is actually a pretty tight fit inside that shroud and probably had to be pounded into place. Between the flange on the breech end of the barrel and the washer/screw on the muzzle end, that barrel can't go anywhere, but there's still an indent about 2 inches back from the flange you'll see in the picture, which puts it right above that metal sleeve for the barrel pivot bolt. Likely just to make room for it since I can't think of any other reason for it, but if you for whatever reason decide to pull the barrel, make sure that lines back up when you put the barrel back in or that pivot bolt is not going back in.
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Last but not least is the trigger pack and spring setup. I did post these in other threads but I titled this complete disassembly, figured I'd add them
here ad have everything in one place so for anyone who might wander in searching in the future, it's all right here.
The trigger pack is a complete one piece assembly that also doubles as the end cap/spring holder. Tap the retaining pin and that whole assembly slides out the back of the receiver,
unlike the Edge rifles where it attaches to the bottom of the receiver. Kind of reminds me of the Diana's although not even remotely as good as those T05-T06 triggers.
The spring in mine was covered in whatever that nasty, dried up brown garbage is and a bit warped as you can see in the pictures. It does have the usual chintzy Hatsan spring guide
and no top hat. As mentioned above, same piston and seal the Edge/Striker/1000X rifles use.
MikeyB wrote an excellent article on how to adjust that trigger I hope he won't mind me attaching a link to here. If he does, I'll happily remove it:
https://michaeljbernard.wordpress.com/2019/03/23/2019_03_23_airtact_trigger_adjustment/
Pictures of that complete unit out of the rifle and then opened up. The housing is plastic but trigger, sears, springs are all metal. 2 phillips head screws hold it together, just watch
taking that cover off since there's a small spring between the upper and lower sears to push the lower one into place when you cock the rifle. Not one bit sure what the thin metal
lever is for but if someone figures that out, by all means add to the thread.
That should pretty much cover all of the AirTact. While I doubt anyone will have any questions since it doesn't seem to be all that popular, fire away and if I can
answer, I will. Now that I've wasted a bunch of your time, back to regular forum programming...lol.
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Thanks again Steve. It is always helpful to see the interiors of these guns even if you don’t own one. I see similarities to other Hatsans which is helpful to me in understanding how Hatsan does things. Im starting to get an idea of what Hatsan’s design and production philosophy is. I’m sorry to see Hatsan going the Gamo route and coating everything in plastic. But I guess they have to compete with the Chinese.
IMO Hatsan is finally shaking off their early reputation for cheap materials and poor quality control. All my Hatsans are much better guns than I would have believed after all the research I did on them. A closer examination of the reviews and articles I was reading showed that pre 2015 Hatsan had some major quality issues. Since that date though, Hatsan has clearly done a lot to bring their products up to a very competitive level. There are still problems that we are all aware of but the durability of their guns has improved by an order of magnitude.
So I see the AirTact as a step backward. I come from that generation that believes that plastic is cheap and disposable. Steel is real.
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I see it as a couple backwards with all that plastic. Stock is a nice bit of upgrade from the plain jane Edge. So is the trigger with better adjustability.
The Edge isn't one bit a bad starter rifle and just those 2 changes would have made it better, but that's just my lame opinion...lol.
The rest?? Mehhhh. The pictures tell the tale and the only thing left unknown is how well all that plastic will hold up over long term use.
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Nice post on the Airtact Steve. Thank you for the disassembly tips!
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MikeyB wrote an excellent article on how to adjust that trigger I hope he won't mind me attaching a link to here. If he does, I'll happily remove it:
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Why would I mind? I'm flattered when anyone references my posts and very happy if the info helps any fellow airgunners :-)
While I can't say my Airtacts are "bad" air rifles, they are IMHO the lowest quality Hatsan's I own. My two are $40 refurbs and (so far) they shoot just as good as the Edges and Strikers I have. I'm just not a fan of all the plastic and like Steve posted I have doubts about the longevity of the mostly plastic trigger assembly. I won't buy any more Airtacts regardless of the price. I WOULD buy another Edge or Striker refurb for $40 and they do show up occasionally on the Hatsan website. Last week there was a 22 Edge refurb posted. As usual it was GONE (not me ;-) within a few hours.
I now prefer the Striker stock (especially the wood one) over the Edge stock but cheap Striker refurbs on the Hatsan site are rare.
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Have to do some trimming on the inside but you should be able to get a 1000X/Striker wood stock to work if you had time and wanted to.
Just me but Hatsan might well have been better served sticking with the Edge. All metal action/barrel, making that better adjustable trigger to fit it, couple cosmetic
changes aka that AirTact stock and a press on, bit smaller muzzle break version of that monstrosity of a moderator could have made for a nice new and
improved Edge.
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I've been tinkering on and off with a .25 cal refurb I spent a whopping $40 for so if I screwed something up (I did...lol) I wouldn't be out much. The screw up was stripping the barrel pivot screw head. Whoever put it in there apparently did not want it to ever come back out and after trying every other way I could think of, ended up drilling it to get it out and the barrel off. Problem there was I drilled more than a bit off so now the right side barrel fork has an oval shaped hole instead of a round, threaded one. Only fix I can think of there is to get someone to weld that hole, then drill and re-tap if I decide to, since I have a brand new barrel pivot screw for it.
The guess until now for the few of us who own them is except for a few pieces, the entire thing was synthetic. I can now say that's correct. The breech block/shroud assembly is all one big molded piece that was then fitted for the parts and pieces in it. I won't detail all the dumb stuff I did to find out what I'm about to type, I'll just type it the way you need to do things should you decide you want to...lol. I'm also going to do this in separate posts just to break the pictures up.
I'll start with the moderator. It's actually baffled and they're removeable. If you look at the very front of the shroud, you'll see 2 roll pins. Punch those out (not so easy when you don't have roll pin punches but I'll be buying a set) and that front cap pops off to allow easy access to the baffle setup, which is all one piece and should just slide out. As you can see in the pics, they were molded in halves, then snapped together during assembly. Maybe just easier to mold that way?? Mine is in pieces because not realizing at the time about those roll pins, I got a Dremel out and started cutting. Don't do that, don't need to...lol.
Hello Steve!
Congratulations for your post on AirTact full disassembly!
I just finish reading it all (I just joined GTA yesterday) and saw you encontered some of the same problems I found when I tried to disassembly an AirTact the first time (I have 3 of them, 2 in .177 and 1 in .22, all coil-springers).
Trying to unscrew the barrel pivot (to take the piston out) I concluded that it should be arranged somehow to not come out (very strong locking compound?) and ended by giving up. I turned then to removing the cocking linkage stud and reached the piston ...
On the moderator I was lucky to notice the rolling pins (that were strongly in place, as you said) and took them out. I did not try to reach the muzzle but used the moderator in a way that may interest you and other AirTact owners. In fact what I did may be even a reason to buy an AirTact ...
See that two halves that make the moderator case? It happens that the internal diameter of the moderator match some metal and rubber washers! So I filled this interior with diverse mixes of metal & rubber washers (that fit very snug) making an adjustable muzzle weight to tune barrel vibrations.
Testing diverse weight configurations I found that it is possible to improve accuracy. However, optimizing it takes forever ...
I'll search my mobile in a while to see if I took some photos of the washers' mix.
On the AirTact subject I take the oportunity to ask you, or any GTA member, know a way of reparing a sligthly damaged breach seal. It happens that one of my .177 AirTacts is a little under the others energy level (~15 ft-lb instead of ~17 ft-lb). I attribute this to slightly torn breech seal and not having found who sells them, and considering also that the damage is not a major one, wondered myself if there is not some product (a rubber glue alike?) that can be applied on the seal to fill the small cut.
I'll be grateful if someone post a hint on this!
Best regards for all,
Sergio
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Random guess on my part having never tried it, but those orings you used to fill that moderator?? It may take 2 to make it work, but you may be able to just use a couple of
the right sided orings to fit the breech enough to make it work until you can find real replacements.
As for finding them? Try Sharg in Poland. They have quite a few Hatsan replacement parts and may have some.
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On the AirTact subject I take the opportunity to ask you, or any GTA member, know a way of repairing a slightly damaged breach seal. It happens that one of my .177 AirTacts is a little under the others energy level (~15 ft-lb instead of ~17 ft-lb). I attribute this to slightly torn breech seal and not having found who sells them, and considering also that the damage is not a major one, wondered myself if there is not some product (a rubber glue alike?) that can be applied on the seal to fill the small cut.
I'll be grateful if someone post a hint on this!
Best regards for all,
Sergio
The Hatsan breech seal is tubular and is designed to be inserted in one specific orientation. However, I think you can remove the current one and reinsert it with the small cut facing IN. That should bring the rifle performance closer to the other rifles you have.
https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product/break-barrel-breech-seal-5-pack/ (https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product/break-barrel-breech-seal-5-pack/)
https://www.balistas.com/air-rifles/spare-parts-for-air-rifles/breech-seal-for-hatsan-air-rifles/ (https://www.balistas.com/air-rifles/spare-parts-for-air-rifles/breech-seal-for-hatsan-air-rifles/)
https://www.customairseals.com/product/hatsan-95-125-135-walther-breech-seal/ (https://www.customairseals.com/product/hatsan-95-125-135-walther-breech-seal/)
IMO these rifles likely have a specification tolerance range of up to +/- 10%. They are low cost mechanical/pneumatic machines which means no costly precision parts or costly manufacturing processes like parts sorting or fine tuning. That also means the breech seal fix may help, but that rifle may still shoot with a little lower ME.
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Random guess on my part having never tried it, but those orings you used to fill that moderator?? It may take 2 to make it work, but you may be able to just use a couple of
the right sided orings to fit the breech enough to make it work until you can find real replacements.
As for finding them? Try Sharg in Poland. They have quite a few Hatsan replacement parts and may have some.
Hello Steve!
Thank you for your reply.
What I said about the moderator was filling it with washers to add wright to the front of the barrel and so change it's vibration ftequency/pattern in order to search for better accuracy (trying that the pellet leaves the barrel when its transversal speed is low).
I fill all the moderator interior space with a mix of metal and rubber washers (putting weight with the metal ones and 'putting space' with the rubbers) and compressing the washers stack so that it will not move inside.
Thats my cheapo barrel tunning weight ...
Thanks for the hint on using standard o-rings on the breech. I have to measure the breech and search for the correct size o-rings.
Best regards,
Sergio
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As for finding them? Try Sharg in Poland. They have quite a few Hatsan replacement parts and may have some.
Thanks also for the Sharg.pl link!
I didn't knew the site.
It seems that they carry a lot of Hatsan parts ...
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Hello Michael!
Your suggestion of removing the current breech seal and re-applying it back-in (is that, isn't?) seems a very good one.
So you say that the bottom of the seal soes not have the same geometry of the top but will still seal OK?
Do you think I'll be able to remove the seal without damaging it?
Best regards,
Sergio
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Hello Michael!
Your suggestion of removing the current breech seal and re-applying it back-in (is that, isn't?) seems a very good one.
So you say that the bottom of the seal does not have the same geometry of the top but will still seal OK?
Look closely at links provided and it is clear the seal is asymmetric. I'm not certain, but I think it will work if reversed. IMO the tubular style breech seal "inflates" during the pressure pulse and provides a better seal than a simple o-ring. If that is true, then flipping seal around to bury the damaged edge INSIDE should provide a better seal. This is an easy no wait no cost test.
Do you think I'll be able to remove the seal without damaging it?
Removing seal without causing more damage to it can be difficult. I found using compressed air helped.
Best regards,
Sergio
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Thanks for the reply Michael!
I also think it may be not so easy to remove the breech seal intact! And I do not have any compressed air ...
That's the reason I thought in applying some product that melt with the rubber. I'll look for rubber glues the next time I go to the store! Or, may be I experiment with air chamber glue that I have in house ...
Best regards,
Sergio
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You might try rubbing just a bit of transmission stop leak on that breech seal and let it stand overnight. I've used it to revitalize flattened o-rings and breech seals with good results. Won't fix the problem but might swell up the seal enough to keep you shooting until you can track down a replacement.
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Steve-
Thanks a bunch for posting on this rifle. I have a .25 Airtact I wanted to do a little work on and there really isn't any other info out there.
I really like this rifle. I started airgunning about 15 years ago when I was overrun with an attic full of squirrels. Hunted and pested a lot with .17. and .22 breakbarrels and in short time worked up to a Benji XL .25. I had some very unrealistic hopes for that gun. Spent a lot of time with it. Did a lot of work on it. Tried every .25 pellet made. Never could get it predictable.
15 years and 7 pcps and lot of other assorted airguns later, I still have always wanted a reliable little .25 thumper. I stumbled on the Airtact as I think most folks who own one did: accidentally and with pretty low expectations for a $99 .25 cal springer. But I have to say I kind of love this thing.
Mine isn't pellet picky and will do 1" +/- out to 30 yards with every pellet I've tried (jsb 25gr, benj 25gr, jsb hades, h+n hunter extremes, polymags, h+n ftt, even the dumb Gamo rockets with the bb in them). It doesn't seem to be terribly hold sensitive and shoots well offhand. It isn't a target gun by a long shot but there is a lot to like.
After reading your post I tore mine down and added a top hat, buttons, polish and lube. I don't know what to expect as far as the life of the rifle, or accuracy over time, but for now I'm pretty satisfied.
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Couple of things to add:
The piston isn't hardened and was very easy to drill, tap and button. I used 3 #10 x 32 nylon screws filed to fit. The piston-to-cylinder fit was surprisingly tight before I even buttoned it. I had my heart set on doing it but if I buy another one I don't think I will bother.
To he honest, after adding a top hat, slip washers, cleaning and deburring, light tune-in-a-tube on the spring, moly on the metal to metal points, and cutting a coil off the spring, the diffence in the shot cycle is pretty minimal. Not in a bad way. It was good to begin with.
Winter project for me. Now I have to spend some serious shooting time with it to really tell what it did for accuracy. It is a very easy to work on. You don't need a compressor to remove the end cap. I only cut my spring down because I added 1/2" with washers and top hat but wanted to keep disassembly as easy as stock.
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You might try rubbing just a bit of transmission stop leak on that breech seal and let it stand overnight. I've used it to revitalize flattened o-rings and breech seals with good results. Won't fix the problem but might swell up the seal enough to keep you shooting until you can track down a replacement.
Hi Prof.!
Thank you very much for your hint. It's the kind of 'solution' I was looking for.
However, please help me understand what is 'transmission stop leak'. Is it an oil, like ATF? or a gasket seal? I'm not sure if forum rules permit posting brands/trademarks but if you post me one I'll search the net.
Best regards,
Sergio
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Not one bit sure what the thin metal lever is for but if someone figures that out, by all means add to the thread.
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If this is the thin metal lever you are referring to, it is a kind of safety. When the trigger blade is in its normal position the thin lever BLOCKS the main piston latch/sear from dropping. As the trigger blade is pulled, the thin metal lever moves out of the way in preparation for the main sear to drop. I don't fully understand WHY this feature is common on all their simple triggers. Backup in case the intermediate sear fails??
If the main sear WERE to rest on the thin lever (Airtact) or the similar trigger blade feature in the Edge trigger, I suspect trigger pull would feel TERRIBLE and flag the user that urgent repair was needed. If the feature were NOT there an intermediate sear failure would immediately fire the rifle.
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Sergio-
ATF (automatic transmission fluid) stop leak is an inexpensive product that softens and conditions gasket material. Any auto parts store will carry it. It works on o-rings and synthetic gaskets. It is often a miracle cure for leaking CO2 guns or older CO2 and pump guns when the seals begin to harden and become inflexible.
You do NOT want to use it on PCP airguns however, as the pressures they operate at are much higher and may cause an ignition or explosion inside the air resevoir.
For your particular breech seal application it is worth a shot. Crack the barrel (but don't cock it) and dab a thin coat on the breech seal. Arrange the gun so the barrel won't close and compress the seal, or stick something between the breech and the barrel (shim, piece of plastic, etc.). Stand it on its barrel overnight. Wipe off any excess oil when you are ready to try it out, and give it a go.
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Sergio-
ATF (automatic transmission fluid) stop leak is an inexpensive product that softens and conditions gasket material. Any auto parts store will carry it. It works on o-rings and synthetic gaskets. It is often a miracle cure for leaking CO2 guns or older CO2 and pump guns when the seals begin to harden and become inflexible.
You do NOT want to use it on PCP airguns however, as the pressures they operate at are much higher and may cause an ignition or explosion inside the air resevoir.
For your particular breech seal application it is worth a shot. Crack the barrel (but don't cock it) and dab a thin coat on the breech seal. Arrange the gun so the barrel won't close and compress the seal, or stick something between the breech and the barrel (shim, piece of plastic, etc.). Stand it on its barrel overnight. Wipe off any excess oil when you are ready to try it out, and give it a go.
Hi Prof.!
Thank you very much for your explanation on ATF stop leak. I did not known such product ever exist. Next time I pass on a auto store I'll ask for it.
When I get that product I'll follow your guidelines measuring also muzzle speed before and after application. Then I'll post here the results. Unfortunately that will not be of great use for you as that AirTact is currently with a 270mm 35 coils Gamo spring (Shadow 1000, etc.: I reduced energy to see if accuracy increases) ...
Best regards,
Sérgio
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WOW, thanks guys, I may buy a Hatsan AirTack and this info is of great value.
Thank you guys again ;- )
wll