GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Tack Driver 10 on October 07, 2021, 11:11:56 PM
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This build will be a Prod based gun but in 17 cal with a mini me 9 ci bottle.
Quite frankly it could very well be, "The Prod Yo momma warned you about"....LOL
Had most of the parts except the breech and attaching parts.
Ordered them on Monday morning and received them today.
That must be some kind of a record, at least for me.
Started making parts earlier this week so got a good head start.
Here it is mocked up with a few rough edges.
Should get to refine it over the next few days.
Stay tuned for all the gory details.
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Ron, that looks like a Prod on HGH! Looking forward to seeing it completed!
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Substantial drop block there! 8)
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Substantial drop block there! 8)
This block is 5/16" taller than the AirMega gun.
It looks bigger since it hasn't been finished.
Might use Birchwood aluminum black on it when done. (black is slimming)
Here it is after I had my way with it this morning.
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I meant in a good, heavy duty, way. ;) Looks like it would hold that bottle very secure.
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I meant in a good, heavy duty, way. ;) Looks like it would hold that bottle very secure.
Gotcha, it does look long but no real way to get around it and have the rail on the bottom.
The goal is to keep the gun under 36" long, less than 5 pounds and balanced at the trigger.
Right now it weighs 4 1/2 pounds and only missing the PA so shouldn't be a problem.
With a wood stock should be right at 5 pounds soaking wet.
The 9 ci bottle is 148 cc, about 50% more volume than the AirMega tube.
It got 48 22 cal shots at 900 FPS so this one should get 100+ in 17 cal.
Has the same sling shot hammer as that gun.
Might be able to get it together this weekend for initial testing.
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Time to address the elephant in the room, aka the barrel.
Have a 14 1/2" LW barrel but need to add the o-ring inside the leade.
The conventional approach is to cut off the leade at the TP and rework it.
I would loose about 3/8" in length in the process.
Decided to trim the end .030", cut in the gland and press on a brass sleeve.
Just had to drill the TP, 1/4"countersink and probe port.
Most of the fine LW work remains intact.
Here it is:
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Made the rest of the parts and put the gun together.
Held 2500 psi rock solid overnight.
Should get to do some initial velocity tests today.
Specs:
14 1/2" 17 cal LW barrel
.140" ports, valve, TP, barrel
SSH 2400 spring
Ninja Pro V2 regulator 1400 psi
Tippmann 9 ci, 148 cc reservoir
45 cc plenum
4 lb 10 oz weight
36" length
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Looks Great!
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Looking good, I’m looking forward to seeing how she shots and power range you get out it.
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Great work Ron. I love what you did on this one and the airmega one as well. Excellent craftsmanship.
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Thanks guys, this has been a fun build.
Ran the gun over the chrony yesterday.
Started with the light 2400 hammer spring.
Power was too low at around 750 FPS with 7.9 CPHPs.
Put in a heavier spring and power went up to 870 FPs.
Going to leave it there for now.
Only takes 6 1/2 lbs to cock the gun, 4 oz trigger pull.
May try a heavier hammer spring later.
CPHP 7.9
870 FPS 13.30 FPE
Barracuda Hunter Extreme 9.57
820 FPS 14.29 FPE
Barracuda Match 10.65
796 FPS 15 FPE
Just under 80 dB on the sound meter at 3'.
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FWIW: My crosman 12" 1720T LW barrels really like the JSB/AA 10.3g at 800fps, right about where you are at. :)
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FWIW: My crosman 12" 1720T LW barrels really like the JSB/AA 10.3g at 800fps, right about where you are at. :)
I figured the high 800s would be a good place to start.
Need to see how accurate it is there.
I single loaded the previous pellets for the velocity test.
Now need to address the other elephant in the room.
The Prod breech only accepts 22 cal mags specific to the Prod.
In order to use 17 cal mags, Mrod mags need to be modified and the breech shimmed.
The Mrod mags are taller and narrower than Prod mags.
Need to shave .030" off the bottom of the mag and shim the breech .040".
The 17 cal bolt from the Fortitude is a drop in, p/n ME-104.
Milled the bottom and made a shim from plastic laminate, aka Formica.
Glued the shim to the breech with Dow Corning 3145 MIL spec RTV.
Sharpie to the rescue to match the breech....LOL
Although this is 17 cal, 22 and 25 cal versions are just a barrel, bolt and mag swap away.
Up next, sight in and initial accuracy testing.
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Put a scope on the gun, loaded 2 mags with CPHPs and sighted in at 15 yards.
First shot was 3" high and to the left, adjusted scope and the remaining 9 shots grouped well.
Next took 10 shots at a can on the fence post at 20 yards.
I can tell this gun is going to be a shooter.
Will stretch out the distance when we get a calm day.
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Tried an experiment after reading about the Mrod with a peek striker.
Naturally I had to have one for my very own....LOL
Threaded a piece of 1/4" peek 1/4-28 and screwed it in the hammer.
Gained about .060" hammer travel in the process.
Added a black Delrin spacer to the spring to make up the difference plus some.
Chrony numbers, 2 turns CCW on the PA:
CPHP 7.9
945 FPS 15.66 FPE (+2.36)
CPUM 10.5
865 FPS 17.44 FPE (NT)
Barracuda Hunter Extreme 9.57
908 FPS 17.50 FPE (+3.21)
Barracuda Match 10.65
875 FPS 18.10 FPE +(3.10)
Uses a little more air but puts the heavy pellets in the upper 800s.
From 3000-1400 psi should get about 90 vs 107 shots.
Will make a good squirrel gun out to 50+ yards.
Need to put the target out at 60 yards and see what this gun will do.
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Tuned the gun for 880 FPS with 7.9 CPHPs.
Still sighted in at 20 yards.
Was going to shoot some targets at 30 yards but......
Cut out the middle man and went out to 60 yards.
Didn't intend this gun to be a 60 yard gun but let's go there.
Want to avoid a severe case of FONK (Fear of Not Knowing)....LOL
CPHPs, BHEs, CPUMs all were about 1.4" CtC.
Surprising to see the Crosman brown box domes bring up the rear at 2.65".
Next up H&N FTT, Barracuda Match and JSB Exact.
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Awesome, nice work, looks like a keeper.
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I and quite a number of us feel the prod is a perfect platform for .177 and don't understand why crosman hasn't made a version in that caliber. I converted one, not like you as yours is just bada..
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I and quite a number of us feel the prod is a perfect platform for .177 and don't understand why crosman hasn't made a version in that caliber. I converted one, not like you as yours is just bada..
I thought the same thing.
Even without the bottle a 17 cal Prod just makes sense.
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this is very fine work Ron ;). This gun in .177 is turning out very nicely! 8)
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Great work, Ron!
Quality pictures showing the work always appreciated!
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That is a really sharp little rig. I find the AA/JSB are great for hunting. I think the soft lead deforms a little.
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They say, "It's better the second time around."
That's exactly the case with the JSB Exact pellets and round 2.
About .750" CtC at 60 yards.
Also dressed up the MP-17 with a stock made a few years ago.
It was on one of my pumpers but looks equally as good on the Prod.
It's like a tuxedo for your gun...LOL
Gun weighs 6 1/2 lbs as pictured and balances nicely at the trigger.
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the JSB's did great! considering these are .177 and a lighter pellet, all of the groups did surprisingly well. how is the FPE at that range?
that thumbhole stock looks really good on that setup. ;D
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the JSB's did great! considering these are .177 and a lighter pellet, all of the groups did surprisingly well. how is the FPE at that range?
that thumbhole stock looks really good on that setup. ;D
At 60 yards the CPHPs would have 7 FPE.
At 45 yards would be a little over 8 FPE.
Need more power?
Just swap in a 22 cal barrel and rock out with the band.
The AMP-22 yielded 12 FPE at 60 yards.
The JSBs and the CPHPs grouped the best and I want to try the FTT 4.52.
The FTTs above were 4.50s.
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Have some of those milk carton 7.4 pointed pellets.
Had to give them a try at 20 yards.
They did pretty good.
Now there's only one question left to be answered.
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Modded the hammer further with a pressed in Delrin pin in place of the steel pin.
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That is a very nice group! All my pumpers do exceptional with the Crosman super points. The H&N's do very close to them in accuracy.
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Thanks guys, this has been a fun build.
Ran the gun over the chrony yesterday.
Started with the light 2400 hammer spring.
Power was too low at around 750 FPS with 7.9 CPHPs.
Put in a heavier spring and power went up to 870 FPs.
Going to leave it there for now.
Only takes 6 1/2 lbs to cock the gun, 4 oz trigger pull.
May try a heavier hammer spring later.
CPHP 7.9
870 FPS 13.30 FPE
Barracuda Hunter Extreme 9.57
820 FPS 14.29 FPE
Barracuda Match 10.65
796 FPS 15 FPE
Just under 80 dB on the sound meter at 3'.
Great looking work! I like the way you machined that barrel breech. Ought to be a good build!
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the power you are getting with any of those pellets is just incredible for a .177 build! this is one of your best projects... critters beware!!! 8)
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Modded the hammer further with a pressed in Delrin pin in place of the steel pin.
I probably missed this in your 22 build, when I was looing at the delrin plug in the blind hole for the throw adjuster. The cocking lug steel pin was replaced with delrin? I don't like the loose fit of the steel pin. I'll be interested in how that holds up with use. For hammer removal, it just pops out?
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Both the 22 and 17 cal guns are rear cockers.
I cut the cocking pin on the hammer so it's about .060" above the top of the hammer.
It uses the slot as a guide and both guns are manually cocked by pulling on the cocking knob.
Makes for a very smooth cocking experience if you don't mind the extra step.
The 22 version uses the steel pin but for the 17 cal gun I replaced the steel pin with Delrin.
Both guns have the little metal bridge on the back of the tube slot filed open.
To remove the hammer assembly, take out the 2 rear breech screws and the rear trigger frame screw.
Out it comes as easy as taking candy from a baby. (not that I would do that of course....LOL)
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I keep forgetting they are rear cockers! ::) :-[
Cutting the slot open is probably OK with a precision fit rear piece, but the generally "sloppy" fit oem end cap, could distort the tube with tight torqueing of the breech and trigger assy screws.
BTW: masterful work, just like the 22. :) 8)
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I keep forgetting they are rear cockers! ::) :-[
Cutting the slot open is probably OK with a precision fit rear piece, but the generally "sloppy" fit oem end cap, could distort the tube with tight torqueing of the breech and trigger assy screws.
BTW: masterful work, just like the 22. :) 8)
I was surprised that the rear tube cap was .740" leaving .010" of clearance in the tube.
Fortunately like Johnny Cash, I saw that train a coming, coming down the tracks.
I wrapped it with .0035" adhesive backed Teflon tape and took out most of the play.
I did it just because I don't like the sloppy fit, didn't think about the crush factor.
Not sure if the two 4-40 screws can produce enough force to distort the steel tube but.....
All aboard!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MWB51QcWoc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MWB51QcWoc)
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Started work on the stock for this gun.
Wanted something that made a bold statement, not the "same ol thang".
I like a high cheek weld so made a 100 cal bullet.
Lots of sanding left.
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Very cool stock!
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Started work on the stock for this gun.
Wanted something that made a bold statement, not the "same ol thang".
I like a high cheek weld so made a 100 cal bullet.
Lots of sanding left.
oh wow Ron... now that's an attention getter! very cool!!! 8)
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Finished the "100 cal Bullet Stock" just in time for Veterans Day.
Truck bed paint on the main stock for durability.
I'm usually not a glitz and bling kinda guy but.......
Metallic paint for the bullet.
Has self locking nuts epoxied in the posts for adjustability.
Stock weighs 3 oz more than the Crosman plastic stock with a cheek riser.
Gun tips the scale at 6 1/2 lbs and balances nicely at the trigger.
Stick a fork in it, it's done....LOL
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Ron
It turned out great, a very cool project gun and practical too.
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that is awesome Ron... LOVE IT!!! 8)
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Great idea and just finding this thread. Unknowing of that cobbled together something similar a few days ago in .22 cal.
Scott S
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Great idea and just finding this thread. Unknowing of that cobbled together something similar a few days ago in .22 cal.
Scott S
That's an interesting build.
Adding a regulated bottle and longer barrel really transforms these little guns.
Also picked up an 380mm FX liner and I see you recently converted one.
Not sure what gun will get it yet.