GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Marc on August 27, 2021, 08:16:33 AM
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OK - thanks for all the help so far guys! I have the $$ and permission to order my first PCP today. Any help one way or the other is appreciated, with which is best:
1. Gamo Urban - looks good, didn't see a lot of negative, only found at Sportsman's Guide - not sure about buying from them???
2. Benjmain Fortitude - lot's of nice features, seem to read about more quality issues, only available in .177 right now
3. P-Rod - not a lot of quality issues, good trigger, would have to make the stock comb a little higher, would only use as carbine
Any high points ya'll would share before I order?
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I wouldn't rule out a BSA Buccaneer. But of those 3 mentioned I think I would go with the Urban. I own all but the Prod.
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Out of the 3 I only have the Prod, but would get the Urban if I were in your shoes. I have purchased from S G and have their credit card ;)
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Out of the 3 I only have the Prod, but would get the Urban if I were in your shoes. I have purchased from S G and have their credit card ;)
Does SG do OK on their packaging quality so things get to you OK? Guess I can call to make sure they double box.
Out of the three - it seems the Fortitude has the most mixed reviews?
LOVE the look of the BSA Buccaneer - does anyone have them in stock? I'd flip for one of those.
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I have the Urban and Prod. Like them both. Solid guns! However, for me the Urban is the one I almost always grab when a pesting situation quickly arises. Besides the fact that it's an accurate gun, it just fits me so very comfortably.
The only mod I've done to this rifle is swapping out a less than $1 trigger screw. Really shocking why Gamo hasn't done this on their own to gain an even greater reputation.
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And this just in ...
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=191005.msg156208923#msg156208923 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=191005.msg156208923#msg156208923)
Great place to buy from :)
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Have Urban and P-Rod.
Urban for a rifle - more powerful.
P-Rod as a carbine - compact and light.
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And this just in ...
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=191005.msg156208923#msg156208923 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=191005.msg156208923#msg156208923)
Great place to buy from :)
2 things to consider with this rifle:
1) not known for its trigger
2) adding a ldc will increase the overall length of rifle.
3) doesn't have a solid reputation like the Urban or PRod
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I only have the G2 Fortitude and I like it a lot.
I’ve had a Gamo Swarm with similar ergonomics as the Urban and liked that a lot. I like the looks of the Fortitude and the ergonomics too. I did add an inexpensive slip on buttpad due to the standard slick one (what were they thinking?!).
If costs are a consideration, remember to also add in extra magazines (I easily go through 8 before needing to air up). And check how much the preferred pellets are too—those are recurring costs. (Fortitude does great with CPHP and Daisy HP, which are quite low cost options.)
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I really like my urban. It's a dependable right out of the box and shoot gun
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On the P-Rod, can I get by with a 32 mm scope and low rings? Looks like the magazine sticks up some over the top?
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Of the 3 you listed, the Urban is the most versatile in my opinion.
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On the P-Rod, can I get by with a 32 mm scope and low rings? Looks like the magazine sticks up some over the top?
The biggest downfall of the Prod is the horrible shoulder stock. That can be remedied, but you're gonna need medium rings to clear the magazine either way.
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Urban has been trouble free for me. Small air volume tank makes it pump-friendly, more good shots from it’s 105cc tank than I expected.
P-Rod is kind of over priced for what it is, would have to want a really light carbine. Really easy to pump fill (tiny air volume).
Don’t have a Fortitude. Regulation is great, but another layer of complexity. Sort out the complaints from people who tried to mod one and were unhappy from the people who just bought it and use it.
Some others in the same general price range that have been mentioned. Crosman always (in the US) have better parts/repair/return advantages.
Considering you included the P-Rod….which is pushing $400...can assume something like $380-$400 would be in the budget,
Excluding the single shots (as all 3 you mention are repeaters), are about a dozen other PCP’s from various makers in the same sub-$400 price range.
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Looks like the Urban is the go to - but I'm open to something else if you know of something of good quality in this price - can even be a single shot. Quiet is a big plus though.
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Hard to beat the Urban!!
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Looks like the Urban is the go to - but I'm open to something else if you know of something of good quality in this price - can even be a single shot. Quiet is a big plus though.
The Urban is pretty quiet until you start dialing up the power. If you're in an area that requires quite, you probably don't need too much power though.
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Is the stock Urban power adjustable?
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Yes... you'll need to remove the stock to do it.
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thinking we missed an important part.
What do you intend doing with it (or at least doing MOST)?
Shooting close or shooting far?
Big critters, little critters, or just paper and plinking?
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I wouldn't be backwards about using my Urban for any of the above.
And now that I put it in the BSA Buccaneer wood stock, it's a pleasure to behold as well.
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I have a Prod and a 25 caliber Avenger. The Prod is quieter, lighter, less powerful and more expensive. I found the power of the Prod to be a bit light for squirrels at 25 yards. Head shots dropped them but body shots let them run off sometimes. So I tuned it up to 16-17 fpe and it works great. I just finished a Bstaley mod - adding O-rings to limit hammer opening of the valve - and get 30+ shots from the 60 cc air storage. I can get over 20 fpe but only for a few shots. Stock is about 13 fpe. Simple hammer spring adjustment will get you up around 15 fpe. Even tuned up, it is quiet - like less than 90 db.
The stock it comes with is not great but it's simple to make a better one with a bit of aluminum tubing.
I have not shot the other two but I bet they can have more power. Question is how much you need.
I use a Hawke Vantage 2-7 on my Prod and recommend it. I think the objective is 32mm. It is in medium height rings.
I like both my guns. My Avenger is more accurate and a lot more powerful - like 3X. But for backyard use it really needs a moderator and I use one on it. That makes it really long. So normally, if a pest shows up that needs to be dealt with, I reach for the Prod.
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#1 - back yard shooting with daughter and target practice
#2 - small game hunting - bunnies and squirrels
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Yes... you'll need to remove the stock to do it.
That's great, I did not know that. How much adjustment is available, and is it just a screw turn?
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Yes... you'll need to remove the stock to do it.
That's great, I did not know that. How much adjustment is available, and is it just a screw turn?
I know the adjustment is there but someone else will have to let you know the details. I've never messed with mine. I never felt the need. It does everything I want it to as is... and if it don't I'll just go in the house and grab something that will... ;)
Either way, I wouldn't be backwards about taking a shot at small game out to ... say... 45yds... maybe even a few more depending on presentation.
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You hardly ever hear any complaints about the Urban
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I can only find the Urban in stock at Sportsman's Warehouse it seems. My biggest concern is I know PA and AoA extra box air rifles so they don't just ship in their own box. Any info on Sportsman's?
Got a message into them but no word yet.
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Just saw this. Wesbob is a GREAT vendor!!!
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=191005.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=191005.0)
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Your 3 choices in the first post would be fine for that.
Of the 3, would pass on the P-Rod….not as much fun plinking when you have to refill so often, don’t see your uses really needing a light weight carbine. Most of the complaints about them are either (1) from early versions with rough barrels or (2) people wanting to jack up the power and not getting many shots when they do.
Urban would work. Out the box, a bit more power than you really need for plinking. Most of the complaints have been that they are ugly with a big LDC (which you should have realized from the pictures) or shot count goes down if you crank them up (which is pretty much of a “Duh”).
Fortitude (.177) would also work. More shots, will work at short/moderate range on little critters. Have some complaints about not working right out the box (which is why you buy Crosman from dealers with a return policy) or that they don’t act right once someone goes inside and goofs around with the regulator trying to power them up.
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I would get one of the DAR rifles. They have a banner above ,click on it and see their line-up.
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I don’t own an Urban but it is the one I’d recommend for a first-time owner. The DAR in .22 cal would be another excellent choice at the price point, and the one I would personally choose. Being regulated is great but does mean more complexity and more places to leak so that’s a tradeoff.
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All great suggestions but I am very surprised no one besides JimD mentioned the Avenger.
It beats all other mentioned guns in power, adjustability, light weight, accuracy (in my humble opinion from having one in .22) and will do anything the other guns can (except help you fit when you're inside a tight blind or similar) and out of the box without any moderator is already quite quiet. And then it gets on down to an even quieter "peep" when you spin on a silencer. My neighbors don't even know I'm shooting in my backyard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUpBxCbi5o8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUpBxCbi5o8)
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I would have suggested an Avenger but, it's not very hand pump friendly. Yes, you can pump it less for less shots and it is regulated. But again... regulated is not for everyone.
BTW... I do own the Avenger in .25 and I enjoy shooting it. Accurate as all get out to 50yds. I haven't tested beyond that yet but I will in the coming months.
Also, if you do the research here you'll find several complaints on QC. I got lucky with mine, as did others, no QC issues.
And you will find the same scenario with the DAR... I also had one of those and it went down the road with another member in a trade for the Air Speed.
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Only two of your original 3 that I can give a detailed/long term look at are the P-Rod and the Urban...both .22’s.
BUT...will have to consider a few things.
1. I like a non-modded air gun.
2. Do not consider turning provided screws as a mod...if they didn’t want you to turn them, they shouldn’t have used screws.
3. Do not tend towards power-seeking. I’ll trade some power for shot count, so long as it does n;t seriously change what I can use it for.
4. Consider “good shots” to be those within 4% of max. recorded velocity (so you’d need to spend the $30-$33 for an “el-cheapo” chronograph to find out). You wouldn’t notice a velocity change at 6 pot 7% if plinking at short range.
5. 4% is a reasonably strict velocity variation limit for a non-regulated PCP.
A lot of goofing around with the P-Rod. Cranked up in power, down in power, and all points in between. As issued, something like 14-16 foot pound and 24 shots inside of 4% seems “it” with what they gave you. Filling 65cc's of volume from 1800 to 2900psi is really easy.
Urban out the box was more like 27 shots at 24 foot pounds. Cranked up..more power per shot, cranked down..less power per shot. The best balance for an unmounted one turned out to be 37 shots at 20.7 foot pounds. Wasn’t too hard to give up 3.3 foot pounds for another 10 shots per fill up. As a pump filler, filling 105cc's of volume from 1700 to 2900psi isn't stressful.
Fortitude is a mystery to me. Lets assume it holds air and functions as it is suppose to. Like any PCP, if they gave you screws to turn, so long as you keep track of the direction and number of turns, can always un-do what you did and not leave any potentially warrantee voiding track.
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I have had all 3 mentioned rifles in the last 2 months, I would most definitely recommend the Urban especially if target shooting, deadly accurate. Very light and ergonomic for younger shooters. Also, the Urban BSA Magazines are better quality then the others with less jamming.
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Just saw this. Wesbob is a GREAT vendor!!!
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=191005.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=191005.0)
You obviously didn't ready thru this thread ;)
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#1 - back yard shooting with daughter and target practice
#2 - small game hunting - bunnies and squirrels
Since your daughter will also be using this , something to consider is grip. I will assume your daughter has average sized hands, which would be on the much smaller size, compared to mens'. So, in regards to this, the pistol grips of the Urban and PRod would be the much better choice. Especially, the PRod.
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Just saw this. Wesbob is a GREAT vendor!!!
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=191005.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=191005.0)
You obviously didn't ready thru this thread ;)
Yep, missed that. BUT reinforcement is never a bad thing! ;D
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Considering the cost the the Urban/BSA mags....they better be better.
they are....are they like 2 times better than more common mags?...pretty close.
Am a kind of picky guy...lots of airguns, most of them have been modded one way or the other.
Also have specific uses....if one matches a use I have in mind without needing to do anything but turn provided screws....I'm fine with that.
Counting...are only 3 PCP's that fit that "not screwed with" description that I've kept....just turning provided adjustment screws...Urban is one of them. Everyting else PCp has been DIY goofed around/modded/changed to get where I was going.
EDIT:
Also do not know what the outcome of a .22 Avenger adjusted down to about the same (20ish) foot pound level would be....hardily anyone goes that direction, but seems a logical power level for what you outline doing.
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I have the Prod and the Urban.
I definitely do NOT recommend the Prod.
Tuning the Prod to shoot decently will take many hours of your time.
The Gamo Urban is very easy to tune, only adjust the hammer spring and start and end pressures of the shot string.
Mine shoots 40 shots from 700 FPS to 730 FPS to 700 FPS.
But I also have 2 Avengers and 2 Nova Liberty which are regulated and I like more than the Urban, for about the same price.
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Reporting in - just ordered the Urban! Tanks for all the help!
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So one question on the Urban - if I turn the power down do you think I can get much more for consistent shots per fill? I'd be totally happy with a 15 FPE set up for my needs.
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Reporting in - just ordered the Urban! Tanks for all the help!
Finally!
;D
Congrats (https://i.imgur.com/X7byqwc.gif)
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Oh yes! Now I need to order the hand pump and some ammo. AoA and Pyramyd have what I want - you guys prefer either one?
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Oh yes! Now I need to order the hand pump and some ammo. AoA and Pyramyd have what I want - you guys prefer either one?
I order from both and have never had a glitch so far.
As for pumps, I order from Amazon.
The GX pump that I bought from them (Amazon/Ankul) got fully refunded (about $160 +) 'cuz it was not working at first due to a too deep foster.
I experimented with it and installed an extra Harbor Freight O-ring, then I was able to air my tube with gusto!
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Thanks - you guys have been a ton of help!
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Think you’ll like the Urban….a lot of us like it as well.
Haven’t tried quite that low.
With non regulated PCP’s with one control (the striker spring tension), the changes aren’t in isolation. Change one thing, and other things also change.
What normally happens when you decrease the striker spring tension lower..both power AND sweet spot pressure changes.. So cranked up, might give 28 foot pounds for 20 shots at 3200-2200psi….cranked down, might get 40 shots at 20 foot pounds at 2800-1600.
Might not really care about velocity changes that much. Just plinking at short range (like 20 or 25 yards), it takes a whole lot of velocity change to make a difference on target.
You’d think not….but the change in velocity is gradual.
(not from an urban….from one with about the same air volume)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4850/46706521061_57630e7111.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eai8tT)DSCN1621 (https://flic.kr/p/2eai8tT) by Robert Dean (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144930793@N07/), on Flickr
Velocity variation in any one of the 5 shots groups is small….so the pellets tend to cluster.
The average velocity of each 5 shot group shows greater velocity change...so the cluster locations rise and fall.... makes like a bell curve.
By the chronograph, shots #10- #38 are the “sweet spot”….but just plinking in the back yard, see no reason not to use all 50 shots.
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Thank you. Anything over 12 FPE is more than I need (for now), so the more shots the better. I don't have a chronograph, so I'll just have to watch results to figure things out.
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All good first choices IMO. Fortitude would be my pick. I like long traditional looking rifles so that is my bias. 5 year warranty helps. Lots of great suggestions here though. Happy shooting!
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Might grab a Fortitude when the .22 cal. models are back in stock. Now that I'll have a pump, well...............And I did go with a Hill.