GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Projectiles => Boolit and Pellet Casting => Topic started by: EdinGa on July 13, 2021, 11:22:49 PM
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I had a good first session with my new mold. I scrubbed it down with dish soap and an old toothbrush then heat cycled it 3 times in my powder coat oven. I cast 125 and ended up with 32 culls, but I was being super critical with them. I really want to see just how accurate they can be. These are powder coated and sized to .250.
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Did you size the skirts too?.... They are supposed to be larger than the head by about 0.007"....
Bob
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Did you size the skirts too?.... They are supposed to be larger than the head by about 0.007"....
Bob
Yes, I ran them all through my NOE .250 air rifle bushing. I didn't realize there was a difference in the measurements. Thank you for the information. I did a quick 30 yard group this morning and they seem promising so far, but I will definitely try them unsized next time.
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I've got the same mold. I originally bought it for my Sumatra but the skirts were too small to hold in the magazine. I'm just starting out with using them in my sentry 705. Finally got a shot string so I know where to start with the pressure and where to end so we'll see how they do accuracy wise.
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I shot these into water and recovered them. There's barely any rifling marks on the skirts. The rest are going back in the pot to be recast. I'll powder coat a few and lube the others. No sizing this time.
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I've never resized my cast pellets just my slugs.
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I've never resized my cast pellets just my slugs.
My .250-22-WC actually shoot better in my Diana Bandit if I resize them.
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I received this mold Monday, haven't had the time to do more than just open the box.
I think we need to build a sizer that will shrink the head and open the tail, then push them back out the entry end of the die.
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I had time to cast a few more this afternoon. These were shot as cast and lubed with Ballistol. I had been shooting them sized and powder coated, so I'm considering this a seasoning group. The first 2 went right then it shifted land gradually climbed until the last 4 went into the big hole. It was too dark to shoot anymore so more testing tomorrow.
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The thumbnail is sideways. You'll have to click the image to see it as described.
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Hi Greg,
I noticed something about some of the holes in your target: Unless the target material was not flat, some of your pellets may be yawing. Notice where the skirt cut the paper, relative to the head in the enlarged image of your target below:
I have no explanation for this, except that the target was probably curved near the point of impact. If not, something else is going on.
Compare the cropped image with your original to exclude possible bias in my skirt edge demarcation...
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Greg E
That is what my sizer does, I can size the head only, (whatever size needed, shrink or expand) or size the head and skirt,
with 1 pull of the handle etc.
I have posted info/photo's of it somewhere on this site, but can't find the info when needed, very poor search dog etc............. ::)
Tia,
Don
I think we need to build a sizer that will shrink the head and open the tail, then push them back out the entry end of the die.
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I have posted info/photo's of it somewhere on this site, but can't find the info when needed,
Don,
I'll send you the bill for finding your post for you :)
Thanks Terry
The only problem is, I don't know how I did it,
after 6+ hrs of clicking this and that etc. LOL
Tia,
Don
But here they are.
Bare press with no attachments.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6224)
Forming parts for press,
L>R , skirt base pin, nose HP pin, adjustment screw from press,
top> NOE size die, die holder for press, NOE die sets inside die holder 1 st model,
2nd model (bottom) Noe die sets on top of die holder, better option
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6225)
A close up of the same parts as photo #2.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6226)
Parts mounted in the press, 2nd die holder style.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6227)
HP pin inside OEM adjustment screw.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6228)
L>R, sectioned pellet bases, OEM Crosman Piranha, reformed pellet skirt,
group of 5 pellets showing the reformed heads, skirts, reformed HP, OEM pellet HP,
notice the different sizing dimensions of the skirts/head, via different pressure used.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6229)
Close up resized pellets using different pressure, OEM pellet in the middle.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6230)
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And a simpler differential head/skirt setup with cheaper home made dies:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146632.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146632.0)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=147115.msg1497415#msg1497415 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=147115.msg1497415#msg1497415)
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Hi Greg,
I noticed something about some of the holes in your target: Unless the target material was not flat, some of your pellets may be yawing. Notice where the skirt cut the paper, relative to the head in the enlarged image of your target below:
I have no explanation for this, except that the target was probably curved near the point of impact. If not, something else is going on.
Compare the cropped image with your original to exclude possible bias in my skirt edge demarcation...
You have a very good eye. I moved my bench earlier in the day to get out of the sun. By the time I shot this group, it was getting dark and I was in a rush. I was shooting at an angle to the target. The cardboard was only pinned at the top too. I'm sure that also contributed.
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You have a very good eye.
I see things that other people miss, or see but don't register.
I once walker hastily past a rack of freshly painted shock absorbers in the development bay, when I worked at Gabriel, over three decades ago. From 15 feet away in full stride, I noticed that two dampers were "different". That was enough to make me take a closer look. The reinforcement welds holding on the mounting rings were missing on those two damper endcaps.
I can't help it... It has to do with pattern recognition. Anything that breaks a pattern screams at me to pay attention...
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You have a very good eye.
I see things that other people miss, or see but don't register.
I once walker hastily past a rack of freshly painted shock absorbers in the development bay, when I worked at Gabriel, over three decades ago. From 15 feet away in full stride, I noticed that two dampers were "different". That was enough to make me take a closer look. The reinforcement welds holding on the mounting rings were missing on those two damper endcaps.
I can't help it... It has to do with pattern recognition. Anything that breaks a pattern screams at me to pay attention...
All of your comments are appreciated and welcome. Thank you again.
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Initial results seem to indicate that I should be casting with cavities 2 and 4 of my mold. What say you? More testing to come though.
Both shots that are outside of the main group on 2 and 4 were the first ones out of a fresh mag. Not sure what to make of that except shooter error.
30 yards
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You have a very good eye.
I see things that other people miss, or see but don't register.
I once walker hastily past a rack of freshly painted shock absorbers in the development bay, when I worked at Gabriel, over three decades ago. From 15 feet away in full stride, I noticed that two dampers were "different". That was enough to make me take a closer look. The reinforcement welds holding on the mounting rings were missing on those two damper endcaps.
I can't help it... It has to do with pattern recognition. Anything that breaks a pattern screams at me to pay attention...
I've got the same problem ☺️ I wet my wife off all of the time when I see things like that and tell her. She just can't see it.
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I wet my wife off all of the time
Wet? I think this may be a case of the forum software being so eager to avoid naughty words that it might just have made it sound worse. This is a pet peeve of mine: machines correcting language, in a context they do not understand. If the protectors of virtue want to do a good job, then they should be looking at phrases and replacing them. Not words, out of context.
Imagine the machines putting words into your mouth, that then become evidence of intent in a criminal case? Intent that was never actually expressed...
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Initial results seem to indicate that I should be casting with cavities 2 and 4 of my mold.
If it repeats, then there is a signal. Some may insist on a double blind study. :)
I would just do the cavity groups in reverse order, to see if the best groups follow the cavity or the order...
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Initial results seem to indicate that I should be casting with cavities 2 and 4 of my mold.
If it repeats, then there is a signal. Some may insist on a double blind study. :)
I would just do the cavity groups in reverse order, to see if the best groups follow the cavity or the order...
My intentions exactly. Too hot and muggy for further testing today. Maybe early tomorrow morning.
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Eddie
I would single shot them from a tray, mag's can and will have accuracy effect etc.
Then base your results on those tests.
HTH's
Don
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Eddie
I would single shot them from a tray, mag's can and will have accuracy effect etc.
Then base your results on those tests.
HTH's
Don
I need to find a tray for it. I've tried single loading without the mag and it's a real pain.
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Single loading is a good idea. However, if ammo loads from the mag without undue force or "catchiness", then the potential for altering the projectiles is minimal. The converse is that if it takes a lot more force to load from the mag than single loading, then the projectile probably have some dings and scrapes on them, due to being made of soft lead.
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Hey Sub
Thanks for the find, can I get a new pup from your search dog...............LOL as the one here needs to be RETIRED..... ::)
Don
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Single loading is a good idea. However, if ammo loads from the mag without undue force or "catchiness", then the potential for altering the projectiles is minimal. The converse is that if it takes a lot more force to load from the mag than single loading, then the projectile probably have some dings and scrapes on them, due to being made of soft lead.
My Flashpup mag feeds smoothly. I'm just going to chalk it up to trigger interface error. If I ever run across a single load tray I'll pick it up for sure though. There are times I don't want to mess with a mag.
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Eddie
What make of air rifle are you using for the single shot tray?
Don
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Eddie
What make of air rifle are you using for the single shot tray?
Don
It's a .25 Hatsan Flashpup. I don't have a single shot tray for it, but I would buy one if I found it.
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Eddie
What make of air rifle are you using for the single shot tray?
Don
It's a .25 Hatsan Flashpup. I don't have a single shot tray for it, but I would buy one if I found it.
You might have to make one. I did for my Sumatra. You can take a eraser and trim it up to work. Jim Chapman did that once when he forgot the sst. I used a piece of hdpp for mine. Cut it to fit in the loading slot then using my drill press slowly drilled a slot.
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Eddie
What make of air rifle are you using for the single shot tray?
Don
It's a .25 Hatsan Flashpup. I don't have a single shot tray for it, but I would buy one if I found it.
You might have to make one. I did for my Sumatra. You can take a eraser and trim it up to work. Jim Chapman did that once when he forgot the sst. I used a piece of hdpp for mine. Cut it to fit in the loading slot then using my drill press slowly drilled a slot.
That's a great idea. I'm in the process of pricing out a shop build. Once I get that done I'll be able to do more fabrication and experimenting.
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Just found a file here, but I don't have a 3d printer yet.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3267555 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3267555)
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Ed,
For giggles I got an automated quote from Xometry to print one loading tray from ABS; using the file at www.thingiverse.com/thing:3267555 (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3267555)
https://www.xometry.com/quoting/home/? (https://www.xometry.com/quoting/home/?) You can have it for $9 if you are not in a hurry.
See quote image capture below.
I renamed the STL part file "guide" because Xometry will ask if this is a firearm part. No it is not, but "Loading Tray" might raise questions that can be avoided. I have had an airstripper printed as a "valve body". From a legal perspective, you are not lying to them about the YES/NO firearm application question. If your file name is "lJKGFUCVFGHOYUKPJ-3 Mark2", that is your business.
I would not ask for a quote to print an LDC out of stainless steel powder, for example. That will trigger all sorts of real trouble.
I have used Xometry a number of times to print rubber, plastic and stainless steel parts not related to any form of "disposable piston engines"; and their parts are pretty good.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=189354.0;attach=367010;image)
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Ed,
For giggles I got an automated quote from Xometry to print one loading tray from ABS; using the file at www.thingiverse.com/thing:3267555 (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3267555)
https://www.xometry.com/quoting/home/? (https://www.xometry.com/quoting/home/?)
You can have it for $9 if you are not in a hurry. See image capture below.
I renamed the STL part file "guide" because Xometry will ask if this is a firearm part. No it is not, but "Loading Tray" might raise questions that can be avoided. I have had an airstripper printed as a "valve body". From a legal perspective, you are not lying to them about the YES/NO firearm application question. If your file name is "lJKGFUCVFGHOYUKPJ-3 Mark2", that is your business.
I would not ask for a quote to print an LDC out of stainless steel powder, for example. That will trigger all sorts of real trouble.
I have used Xometry a number of times to print rubber, plastic and stainless steel parts not related to any form of "disposable piston engines"; and their parts are pretty good.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=189354.0;attach=367010;image)
I've got a request out to another member already but if he's not interested in printing it, I'll keep this in mind. Thanks!
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The idea was to ball-park the price at a commercial company. It is a small part and should not cost much. You should factor in shipping...
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The idea was to ball-park the price at a commercial company. It is a small part and should not cost much. You should factor in shipping...
That's a good idea. I asked him via PM before I saw your post. He of doesn't want to then, I'll go this route. Thanks again.
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I think I figured out my problem. I grabbed a tin of AA 25.4s that my Flashpup loves and measured them. All of the skirts are running 2.285-2.60. My mold is dropping skirts that are 2.53-2.57.
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What temp is your lead at? I cast just about all my ammo, slugs and pellets at 800*f with a pid temp controlled 4-20 lee pot.
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h
What temp is your lead at? I cast just about all my ammo, slugs and pellets at 800*f with a pid temp controlled 4-20 lee pot.
I have 2 Lee 10lb bottom pour pots. I've always cast with the dial between 4 and 5. I ran my dial at 6 this evening and I'm getting perfect fill out and beautiful pellets but the skirts are measuring .252 to .256
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The drawing shows.256 for the skirts
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The drawing shows.256 for the skirts
The drawing on the NOE website says .257. I haven't found one yet that is that big. Every other NOE mold I own drops fat. Just my luck this one is undersize.
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What are you using to measure the skirt?
Using my micrometers I only got.248-.250. I'm going to try and cast some up tomorrow. Mines a aluminum mold so maybe heating it up higher will give me the right size skirt.
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What are you using to measure the skirt?
Using my micrometers I only got.248-.250. I'm going to try and cast some up tomorrow. Mines a aluminum mold so maybe heating it up higher will give me the right size skirt.
I'm using a digital caliper. If I rotate the skirt it varies from .249 to .256 on different pellets.
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I guess the small skirt size is the reason I can't use these pellets in my Sumatra's mag.
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This is about average at 30 yards.
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Hmmm, hope it works better in my Kral. I still haven't done more than open the package and glance at it.
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When I'm weighing my pellets when I see one that's a little light I'll eyeball the skirt to make sure they look good with good sharp edges. I've measured them before and they'll always be very close to what the mold spec's call for. I've always had excellent results doing it this way. I think I only had 2 rejects from about a 200 count run during my last casting session of my 250-27-RF mold with the longest pin.
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I'm using pure lead that I got from GT Bullets. It came from a split pig ingot too. I ran my pot hotter last night, and if anything my pellets were smaller in diameter. They look great though.
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When I'm weighing my pellets when I see one that's a little light I'll eyeball the skirt to make sure they look good with good sharp edges. I've measured them before and they'll always be very close to what the mold spec's call for. I've always had excellent results doing it this way. I think I only had 2 rejects from about a 200 count run during my last casting session of my 250-27-RF mold with the longest pin.
I weighed the pellets I cast today and they were coming in at 26.5- 26.9. The skirts were still in the.250-.252 range.
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I weighed everything I cast last night and picked out everything 27 grains and above. The skirts are still undersize. Most ran .253-.254 I didn't bother measuring anything that was under 27 grains.
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I need to push a pellet part way through my Kral, and another all the way through. I have a feeling this might not have been a good purchase for me.
I'll have to get mine cleaned up and cast a few, I have a replacement Lyman 9mm Devastator hollow point arriving Tuesday that I'll want to test ASAP. Otherwise I have a pile of stuff waiting for test and tune that I finished powder coating last night. Need to make a post on that subject. Melted down more rounds while chasing better flow-out. Toaster oven are VERY nonlinear, and the Lyman digital thermometer is incredibly slow during heating. Still finding powders that I like too.
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I'm not happy with mine at all. I wanted the 34 grain, but settled for this one. Should have known better. I've got quite a few NOE molds and I've never had one undersize before.
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Well, I have the .22 magnums mold and they drop undersize.
Back on topic, would this be a case were lapping would be a remedy?
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Well, I have the .22 magnums mold and they drop undersize.
Back on topic, would this be a case were lapping would be a remedy?
I'm not sure how you would lap a mold like this.
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Well, I have the .22 magnums mold and they drop undersize.
Back on topic, would this be a case were lapping would be a remedy?
I'm not sure how you would lap a mold like this.
Speaking strictly for my mold, I am planning on casting a pellet in each cavity and attach a thin rod to the top, use valve lapping/grinding compound and give each cavity a couple of swirls. Clean the mold, cast, measure pellets and repeat if needed. Either valve compound or JB which would probably be better.
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Well, I have the .22 magnums mold and they drop undersize.
Back on topic, would this be a case were lapping would be a remedy?
I'm not sure how you would lap a mold like this.
Speaking strictly for my mold, I am planning on casting a pellet in each cavity and attach a thin rod to the top, use valve lapping/grinding compound and give each cavity a couple of swirls. Clean the mold, cast, measure pellets and repeat if needed. Either valve compound or JB which would probably be better.
How are you going to attach the rod? That might be the only hope for this mold.
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Well, I have the .22 magnums mold and they drop undersize.
Back on topic, would this be a case were lapping would be a remedy?
I'm not sure how you would lap a mold like this.
Speaking strictly for my mold, I am planning on casting a pellet in each cavity and attach a thin rod to the top, use valve lapping/grinding compound and give each cavity a couple of swirls. Clean the mold, cast, measure pellets and repeat if needed. Either valve compound or JB which would probably be better.
How are you going to attach the rod? That might be the only hope for this mold.
I haven't "noodled" that part yet but give ne time, I'll make sure to pop back and let you know. Taking care of my mom is taking up all my time.
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Take rod, flatten end with hammer, hold in place and cast around it with the sprue plate swung out of the way? Won't be perfectly centered, but might work. Need a ladle to poor the lead.
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Take rod, flatten end with hammer, hold in place and cast around of with the sprue plate swung out of the way? Won't be perfectly centered, but might work.
That's the general idea I am playing around with. What I was thinking was to cast with the sprue plate out of the way and attach the rod to the lead blob on top. The pour hole seems too small to allow the rod in place and be able to pour/cast the pellet.
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Eddie
Have you shot and recovered an undamaged pellet and measured the diameters for the head and skirt,
with the same lead you are casting with?
I don't under stand this PC of pellets/slugs/bullets, can you build up the thickness enough to get a good fitting, so you can measure the dimensions etc.
IMHO,
I suspect that you also have a slightly larger bore diameter along with the smaller side of skirt diameters etc
which may be leading up to your accuracy problems.
Don
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#0 wood screw might also be an option, drill and attach while the pellet is still in the mold and it should just push the extra out of the fill hole.
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I'm not happy with mine at all. I wanted the 34 grain, but settled for this one. Should have known better. I've got quite a few NOE molds and I've never had one undersize before.
I ordered the 34 grain mold but Al sent me the 27 grain mold by mistake. I figured going with a light pellet I would allow me to shoot my Sumatra at a low setting thus giving me more shots before I had to fill it up again. The 27 grain hunter pellets skirt was just to small to work in the magazine. If I knew it would have to small of a skirt I would have insisted on the mold I ordered.
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Eddie
Have you shot and recovered an undamaged pellet and measured the diameters for the head and skirt,
with the same lead you are casting with?
I don't under stand this PC of pellets/slugs/bullets, can you build up the thickness enough to get a good fitting, so you can measure the dimensions etc.
IMHO,
I suspect that you also have a slightly larger bore diameter along with the smaller side of skirt diameters etc
which may be leading up to your accuracy problems.
Don
Don, that may very well be the case here but in my case I measured the cast pellets head and skirt and they were undersized, more in the .20 cal class rather than .22. I can understand one barrel being slightly larger but in my case I tried the pellets in four different guns and the pellets just fell out of the barrel.
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I'm glad that I purchase my 250-27-RF from the very first run that NOE did because they drop just like they're supposed to and shoot very well out of all the 25 cals that I have.
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I'm not happy with mine at all. I wanted the 34 grain, but settled for this one. Should have known better. I've got quite a few NOE molds and I've never had one undersize before.
I ordered the 34 grain mold but Al sent me the 27 grain mold by mistake. I figured going with a light pellet I would allow me to shoot my Sumatra at a low setting thus giving me more shots before I had to fill it up again. The 27 grain hunter pellets skirt was just to small to work in the magazine. If I knew it would have to small of a skirt I would have insisted on the mold I ordered.
Me too. Ordered the 34 and ended up with the 27 almost 8 months later.
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Now you guys have me thinking, should I even bother casting anything with my 250-27 or just measure it and send it back? Sounds like maybe there was a change and that change results in the skirts being too small. I'll measure tonight and see, but I'd guess the skirts should be at least .255 and the head anywhere .250 or less.
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The diagram on the website shows .257 for the skirts. I'm heating my pot up now to try pressure pouring with a ladle see if that makes a difference. I doubt it will because I've been pressure pouring with my pot. Wayne has great results with it though, so I might as well try.
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I'm not happy with mine at all. I wanted the 34 grain, but settled for this one. Should have known better. I've got quite a few NOE molds and I've never had one undersize before.
I ordered the 34 grain mold but Al sent me the 27 grain mold by mistake. I figured going with a light pellet I would allow me to shoot my Sumatra at a low setting thus giving me more shots before I had to fill it up again. The 27 grain hunter pellets skirt was just to small to work in the magazine. If I knew it would have to small of a skirt I would have insisted on the mold I ordered.
Me too. Ordered the 34 and ended up with the 27 almost 8 months later.
Mine ended up being around a month.
I'm not real happy about the skirts being under sized. Al needs to know he has a problem with the.25 hunter mold.
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I've never had a problem with NOE before this year. Every mold I've bought from him has been great until this .25 hunter fiasco.
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Well, I pressure poured a batch with the ladle, picked out the fattest skirts and powder coated them. Here's the group at 30 yards next to a group with my Diana Bandit pistol at 20 yards. Both were shot with cast pellets. I'm still not impressed with this hunter mold. It's too much work for mediocre results.
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This was last August 2020 right after I got my Avenger sighted in with them. 50 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9UAB_XH-n0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9UAB_XH-n0)
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Here's my 50 yard results. NOE on the left and AA 25.4s on the right.
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I tried them in the Bandit because it seems to like a smaller diameter. Found out pretty quickly that it won't stabilize them. They were corkscrewing like crazy.
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So... Are these good enough for full auto in a Blitz? Might be that mine gets sent to someone that can just spray lead and accuracy in this mode isn't stellar anyway.
Cold I'm getting around .257 on my aluminum mold, tough to measure because of the pin shape. I'll have to cast a few and see what they do.
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So... Are these good enough for full auto in a Blitz? Might be that mine gets sent to someone that can just spray lead and accuracy in this mode isn't stellar anyway.
Cold I'm getting around .257 on my aluminum mold, tough to measure because of the pin shape. I'll have to cast a few and see what they do.
I haven't attempted to measure my mold, but my skirts aren't close to .257. I picked the biggest ones to powder coat and still ended up small.
I'm extremely disappointed in this mold considering the results Wayne is getting. I've tried every casting trick I know.
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Eddie I think they call the cutter for making the mold a cherry, they need to get them right is the way that I look at it. Like I said mine is from the first batch they ran for both the "Hunters" and also the Hunter Magnums. Both seem to do really good. I might try the hunter magnums in my AEA Semi Auto because I haven't tried them yet. This morning I was shooting 249-39-RF with very decent accuracy for a semi auto. I'll try the Magnum hunters in it next to see how they do from it. Those weigh about 2 grains less than those slugs so hopefully the poi is really close.
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Wayne,
This whole ordeal has been extremely frustrating. I know they're busy and I've been a happy customer for years, but there seems to be more going on here. I've been dealing with this for nearly 8 months and now I have 2 useless molds.
I'm going to see if I can get a buddy of mine to make a tapered pin I can mount in one of my sizing dies to spread the skirts out. I just don't know what else to do.
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Could your friend turn a pin that could be used to polish out the skirts? Not sure how big it needs to go, but .260 is probably close for most airguns. Mine is aluminum and should polish out fast if need be, hoping it expands big enough.
I'll get this going on maybe Wednesday and if I get bigger pellets I'll have to send you some to try.
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A ball bearing in the correct size would work as a spreader, glue it to a piece of small diameter tubing, or solder/braze/weld. I'd size a ball as smaller than the measured inside diameter and let it push the walls slightly down the cone.
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I'll ask him. He's very creative and builds knives, so I'm sure he could come up with something. I was thinking of something simple to address the undersize skirts, but he might have some other ideas.
I know for a fact that my barrel likes .259-.260.
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I was plundering through my reloading drawers and found a scale check weight with a ball on the end. I used it to open up the skirts and saw a definite improvement at 50 yards. The results were far from consistent but it does give me hope for salvaging this mold.
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Your comments caused me to measure the skirts on my cast pellets with this mold versus some JSB and FX pellets my Avenger shoots well - 1/2 inch or less at 33 yards. I also checked heads. I saw no difference in heads but there was a difference in skirts with the cast pellets the smallest. Heads were all around 6.3mm or .248 inches. FX skirts were about .257 inches and JSB a little bigger at around .259. But my cast were smaller at about .252.
But I also had a little success tuning my gun to decrease group size with them. I increased hammer spring tension by 1/4 turn and got a sub 1 inch group at 33 yards. Best before this was about 1.5 inches. But I ran out of cast pellets. So I cast another 60 and it started raining.
There is more in my "need advice" thread but my other observation is my weights have dropped by nearly 1 grain as I've cast more pellets with this mold.
I don't think 1 group proves anything and I am still not getting as small a group as I want but maybe these pellets want more of a jolt from the air to push the skirts more firmly into the rifling. Or maybe my next group will be back up around 1.5 inches. When it stops raining I will do some more testing and see.
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Mine were grouping closer to 4 inches at 50 yards before I flared the skirts. I did it by hand, so I know it wasn't consistent but it did help. I'm still not happy with the the mold, but if I can come up with a way to size them quickly and consistently on one of my presses, then I guess I can live with it. .25 caliber pellets aren't cheap, and I shoot a lot.
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I just checked my mold with various from the tin pellets selected and get around a .253" skirt diameter with my mold. I wonder if a an angled tip gauge pin could be made that follows the skirt angle but more flared at the rear to allow you to open the skirts would be the easiest thing to try.
I have a lathe and could try to make one. What size are you at currently and where do you want to be so that an angle could be determined for you to try out.
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My mold is dropping them around .253-.254. I need to be at .259-.260. That's what my AA 25.4s are running and it loves them.
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If you are sure you have the pins set at the correct height and the skirt of the pellet is coming out too small, phone Al to let him know....
Bob
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Bob,
That is consistent with my thought. Although if we could impose on Wayne a little more, it would be really nice to know the skirt size coming out of his earlier build mold.
I got a break in the rain and tried my tuning ideas. I got a couple cases where I have three shots touching including one 3 shot group that is about 1/4 inch center to center. But right after that I get a 1.5 inch group - or bigger. Not at all consistent. I tried to increase regulator pressure and may have increased it 100 psi but it did not obviously help. More hammer spring tension made groups bigger. I could go up several hundred psi yet on the regulator but I am getting somewhat frustrated. Maybe it is time to talk to our supplier. Groups that range from 1/4 inch to 2+ inches are not terribly useful (I normally shoot at 100 feet, the longest I can in my yard).
I changed my scope during testing of these cast pellets so I double checked that with a couple more FX groups (25.4 grain). One was one quarter inch the other a little under 1/2. I adjusted the windage back from where I'd set it for the cast and it moved just like it should and it was after that I shot the smaller group. So even though the West Hunter 4-16 is a cheap scope I don't think it is causing or even significantly contributing to the problem.
Skirts smaller than the pellets my gun likes and smaller than the suppliers drawing seems to be the issue. As a newbie caster I initially thought it was me - and it probably was for awhile. But knowing others are having issues and seeing the consistency of my pellets get to possibly better than my purchased pellets, I am doubting that as the cause now.
I plan to sleep on it and if I still feel the same I will give him a call. My only other thought is to go up further on regulator pressure and mess with the hammer spring some. But the inconsistent grouping is causing me to question whether I can ever "get there".
Jim
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If you are sure you have the pins set at the correct height and the skirt of the pellet is coming out too small, phone Al to let him know....
Bob
I believe they're set correctly. It seems like several of us are having the same problem.
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i tired my idea and it dont work. I loose length and only gain .002" id skirt diameter and lose .010" in length
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I can easily get the diameter I need with the round ball. Some were over .270, but I didn't check length. Accuracy is definitely better though. I picked out the ones that were between .260 and .265.
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I measured pellets from the three .25 cal moulds I have here.... The Hunter & Magnum moulds run 0.255"-0.259" on the skirt, and the Target runs 0.253"-0.257".... I did find that the shortest pins (producing the heaviest of the HB pellets) tended to be a bit smaller on the skirt diameter, which is strange, considering they are in the same mould cavity.... Perhaps the shorter skirt, with more lead close to it inside the cavity, shrinks more on cooling?.... Most of the skirts are not perfectly round, there is more variation in diameter on one skirt (when measured at several places around it) than on the head diameter on the same pellet....
Bob
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I measured pellets from the three .25 cal moulds I have here.... The Hunter & Magnum moulds run 0.255"-0.259" on the skirt, and the Target runs 0.253"-0.257".... I did find that the shortest pins (producing the heaviest of the HB pellets) tended to be a bit smaller on the skirt diameter, which is strange, considering they are in the same mould cavity.... Perhaps the shorter skirt, with more lead close to it inside the cavity, shrinks more on cooling?.... Most of the skirts are not perfectly round, there is more variation in diameter on one skirt (when measured at several places around it) than on the head diameter on the same pellet....
Bob
I've noticed the same thing with my mold. The skirts vary a good bit when rotated. I ran mine through my .250 bushing then, flared the skirts back out and the diameter was more consistent.
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The skirt is supposed to start out larger than the groove diameter of the barrel, which then sizes it when fired....
Bob
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That's the problem I'm having. I'm getting better accuracy with skirts flared to .270 than the ones straight from the mold. I just need a way to get them to .260 consistently.
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I just found another issue. The drawing shows a length of .300 and mine are dropping closer to .290.
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What is the temp of your lead during pours? It could be excessive shrink causing the issues. I cast all my stuff at 800*F and have had great performance at that temp.
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I don't have a thermometer but I guess I need to pick one up. I usually cast everything between 4 and 5 on the dial of my Lee 10lb pot. I've tried these there and at 6 on the dial. It didn't help. I cast from .217 up to .459 and I've never had any issues with shrinkage before. I usually have to size down.
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I'm not going to get to cast these until this weekend, but I'll definitely report back when I do. Waiting for some shims to adjust the pin on my replacement Lyman mold.
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I don't have a thermometer but I guess I need to pick one up.
This is the one I use.
https://www.amazon.com/RotoMetals-Pewter-Bullet-Casting-Thermometer/dp/B0026Q6GE0/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=rcbs+thermometer&qid=1626832891&sr=8-2 (https://www.amazon.com/RotoMetals-Pewter-Bullet-Casting-Thermometer/dp/B0026Q6GE0/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=rcbs+thermometer&qid=1626832891&sr=8-2)
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I just tried these in my sentry and it's all over the place. To be fair it wasn't bench rested but resting on the rail of the porch with me sitting in a chair. Just the forend resting on the rail.
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I just tried these in my sentry and it's all over the place. To be fair it wasn't bench rested but resting on the rail of the porch with me sitting in a chair. Just the forend resting on the rail.
Same experience I'm having. There's definitely an issue with these molds. I just bought a Lyman dial thermometer off ebay. We'll see if it helps. I don't have much hope because I've been casting for years without one.
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I used both a pot temp gauge and a mold temp gage. The pot was set at 750f and the mold was up to 330f. The mold just plain isn't right and I think WE need to get ahold of Al and let him know. If I was shooting a.25 cal aspen or avenger it probably would work just fine but other .25 must have a little larger bore. If the mold would've been machined to the drawing dimentions there probably wouldn't be any problem.
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I used both a pot temp gauge and a mold temp gage. The pot was set at 750f and the mold was up to 330f. The mold just plain isn't right and I think WE need to get ahold of Al and let him know. If I was shooting a.25 cal aspen or avenger it probably would work just fine but other .25 must have a little larger bore. If the mold would've been machined to the drawing dimentions there probably wouldn't be any problem.
Looks like there's at least 3 of us with the same problem so far.
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I'm going to see what my sentry does with some H&N cudas tomarrow. If I don't get shot gun patern then it's definently the mold not machined per the drawing.
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It seems that at least some of the molds have issues. I'm following the thread and see if Al will respond, hopefully he does.
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Guys
Can I ask a question?
When did you buy your mold?
You can go the NOE site and check on your orders, will have a date when bought etc.
Don
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I bought mine in Sept of 2018 Don.
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Guys
Can I ask a question?
When did you buy your mold?
You can go the NOE site and check on your orders, will have a date when bought etc.
Don
I got mine a week ago..
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Mine was a week ago.
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Mine was in the last year
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9-18-20 for my second one, 5-11-20 on the first that got messed up
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9-18-20 for my second one, 5-11-20 on the first that got messed up
This mold was a replacement for another bad mold I got too. I've talked to Al at least once a month since December and I feel like I'm going in circles.
I sat here and measured quite a few. Most are dropping .252 and the biggest I've found is .254
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I got mine two weeks ago. I was out of town all last week so most of what I've done with it has been this week.
I tried increasing the size of the skirts today but did not get much better results. It may have been my crude attempt, however. I cut a 1 inch cube of cherry wood, bored a 13/64 hole for a 1/4 coarse thread bolt, then a 17/64 shallow hole for the pellet so it would protrude about 1/16 inch. I took a 1/4 bolt and cut the head off, ground a taper on one end similar to the skirt inside taper, then cut off about 3/4 inch of the threaded part, cut a slot in the non-tapered end, and turned the resulting pin into the wood block (which was tapped first with 1/4 coarse threads). I can make pellets with skirts at least up to about .260 with this and I did. But none of them shot well. I mostly made pellets with skirts from about .255 to .259 which is similar to what I measured on the FX pellets my Avenger really likes. I tried regulator settings from 2100 to about 2400. I did not measure the velocity but I think it was probably from about 850 to over 900 fps. I tried multiple hammer spring settings. I got occasional 1 inch groups but others were up to 2 inches - at 30 meters.
My ground bolt may be too crude a way to shove the skirts out. The way I am doing it also shortens the pellet slightly and that may be an issue. But the bottom line is it did not work.
I haven't shot them yet at 25 yards but I'm guessing they might group well enough to reliably hit a squirrels head at that distance - maybe. But my gun shoots half inch or better at 30 meters with FX 25.4s or JSB Heavies. I am running out of both, however, and was hoping these cast would shoot well enough to get me by, at least, until I can get more. They don't. But maybe one of you will come up with a fix.
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I called NOE this morning. They agreed 1.5-2 inch groups were not what we should be expecting. They asked me to send them my mold and some pellets which I did. I will post the results of this. I am optimistic I will still get good accuracy out of my cast pellets.
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I called NOE this morning. They agreed 1.5-2 inch groups were not what we should be expecting. They asked me to send them my mold and some pellets which I did. I will post the results of this. I am optimistic I will still get good accuracy out of my cast pellets.
He needs to send out a recall on all these molds. I'm getting 4 inch groups if don't flare the skirts and even then I get fliers.
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I called NOE this morning. They agreed 1.5-2 inch groups were not what we should be expecting. They asked me to send them my mold and some pellets which I did. I will post the results of this. I am optimistic I will still get good accuracy out of my cast pellets.
Thanks 😊 I tested back to back my hunter pellets and my h&n cudas and got the same results. Did some trigger work and will check it out. The shirts are to small of a diamiter.
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Finally got some time to cast with this. Had to pressure pour it to get the skirts to fill out... This produces a little bit of a fin around the bottom of the skirts (both cavities). I was casting "pure" lead, might be better with some tin, but tin makes stuff expensive so I was hoping to avoid it. Have to try either 40:1 or 20:1, 20:1 has fixed fill out problems with other molds.
And then the really bad news... Yup most of these have a .250 to .252 skirt, but generally only in one direction, 90 degrees and I get the fin so hard to measure. if anyone has been in touch with Al, and has return info, please post what he wants so that all of us don't need to bug him, I'm guessing I'll want to return mine, same as others.
Ed I was going to send you some, but with these measurements they are not going to be better than what you are casting. I'll see what happens when I mix in some tin and if they get better, I'll get some to you.
Mine is the 2 cavity aluminum version.
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Finally got some time to cast with this. Had to pressure pour it to get the skirts to fill out... This produces a little bit of a fin around the bottom of the skirts (both cavities). I was casting "pure" lead, might be better with some tin, but tin makes stuff expensive so I was hoping to avoid it. Have to try either 40:1 or 20:1, 20:1 has fixed fill out problems with other molds.
And then the really bad news... Yup most of these have a .250 to .252 skirt, but generally only in one direction, 90 degrees and I get the fin so hard to measure. if anyone has been in touch with Al, and has return info, please post what he wants so that all of us don't need to bug him, I'm guessing I'll want to return mine, same as others.
Ed I was going to send you some, but with these measurements they are not going to be better than what you are casting. I'll see what happens when I mix in some tin and if they get better, I'll get some to you.
Mine is the 2 cavity aluminum version.
I talked to him and he said I was the 3rd one to call with the same issue. He told me to send it back, but I understand now that he's having covid issues with some of his staff, so I'm going to hold off for awhile before I send mine in. I did go ahead and order the 249-39 slug mold so I would at least have something to play with in .25 cal while I wait.
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I thought about bugging him yesterday but held off. I will be helping with the craft part of our vacation bible school next week so I would have limited time to play with my mold if they sent it back. I will probably call late next week.
In the meantime, I ordered some transfer ports for my Prod to play with. I drilled out the original to .1015 thinking I had tried turning the hammer spring all the way up when I really had not. So I will go back to .080 and may try .096 (or whatever drill bit I have in-between). I know I like a velocity of about 750 fps in this gun (9 one shot kills of squirrels and counting) but I am interested to know if I can get there with a .080 transfer port and, if so, shot count and accuracy. Nothing really wrong with .1015 but I find it fun to investigate (i.e. mess around). Discovered just today 5.25 turns shoots smaller groups than 5, 4 4/4 or 5.5 turns. First 1/4 inch group at 33 yards with this gun.
I was disappointed in my Avengers groups with FTT pellets (its a 25) and Grizzly slugs. Then I tried JSB Kings and King heavies. Then I tried FX 25.4 (made by JSB). 1/4 inch groups at 33 yards are now occurring with regularity. FTT are not as bad as my cast were but groups were more like 1 inch. Unfortunately I cannot find more FX or JSB pellets in 25 caliber right now. Really hoping my mold comes back working well. 1 inch groups could be usable in a pinch and if I can cast pellets that shoot into 1/2 inch or smaller groups I will have a greatly reduced interest in buying pellets for this gun.
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See if you can find some AA 25.4s. I'm pretty sure they are the same as the JSBs and FXs.
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I think they probably are close to the same as JSB, I've never bought any FX pellets so I couldn't say about them.
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I think they probably are close to the same as JSB, I've never bought any FX pellets so I couldn't say about them.
My Flashpup sure likes them, so I buy them when I see them. If I can get my mold issues straightened out then I won't have to worry about it anymore.
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Unless I'm remembering wrong JSB makes FX and AA pellets. They claim alloy and shape are slightly different which makes them different pellets, I have not compared and measured. Most people report different shooting characteristics so that would suggest they are really slightly different.
One thing I like about H&N is that they list power and distance for each pellet. When something is only rated for 35 meters, you can't really expect 100 meter performance. If other manufacturers do this, I've not looked hard enough to see it.
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My Flashpup shoots the AA 25.4s really well at 100, so figure I'll just stick with them. When I realized how much it liked them, I stocked up. Now I just need mold that will do the same.
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I measured the head and I'm seeing right around .250 at 4 different points, so it seems just the skirts are out of spec. I guess this deserves a little more inspection to figure out what is happening and why.
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I measured the head and I'm seeing right around .250 at 4 different points, so it seems just the skirts are out of spec. I guess this deserves a little more inspection to figure out what is happening and why.
Wayne started a thread about the 34 grain mold he has. There is some good discussion in it. Looks like worn tooling on this batch of molds.
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Hi Ed once again I regret we do not live close... I have the 250-34 Mag 2 cavity brass... with not a lot of testing and a visual sort(no weighing) was getting 3/4" groups at 45-50 yards out of one of my Mrods the other did not have leade work and did not like them...It liked every thing decently and was outstanding with JSB kings. both disliked the Benjamin domed until leade work now both like the Benji also (in one a very close second to the JSB Kings)...have to cast and test some more to see if the leade work helped the second with the 250-34 also... just have not been doing a lot for the last 6-8 months... and the 30g BBT sort of dominated(it's fun when they do well to very well in 5 rifles)...
well point is I have read that some of the Hatsan barrel have benafited from leade work that it is not always up to snuff...With my Mrods I think it was because of no leade just hard edged rifling... it cut into the harder Benji pellets instead of swaging them into the rifling... Think it is the same with the 250-34 they work pretty well out of the barrel with a leade and shot gunned some out of the barrel with no leade... the skirts on mine are a bit thicker/stiffer imo than most pellets...
Now with the improvement to your groups by expending skirts... well that may contradict that but you never know the leade could be a contributing factor with some pellets...
with the Hatsan barrels being at/close to L.W. spec (254 bore/ 248 groove) well even with small skirts there is good engagement... and at 2000-3000 psi I bet the skirts do blow out a bit..? I do know a good leade can make a big difference with some pellets... sometime it just helps a little or improves pellet pickiness... have not checked the lead on my AT long .22 yet though.. ;)
Both my Mrods are ~.2497 bore and .252 groove... when Bob was making the design for the BBT I was saying they were .250/252... well now using my sizing dies one is .2497 ish and the other is .250 in conjunction with my caliper... well can call it a tight .250 bore... point is... sounds like the small skirt just might work in tighter groove barrels like a Mrod .25.. as long as head size was .250 or slightly larger?
If it were not for our East/West geographical thing...I am pretty sure some collaboration could prove useful and enjoyable...
I got my first Crosman/Benji that did not need leade work this year... took a look at my Maximus .177 when I had to take a look to make sure it was straight... was treated rough in shipping... despite crosman double boxing decently it arrived with the barrel pointing off to the right side and damage to the Maximus box... only thing permanent is it caused a small bit of elongating to the divot for the barrel band grub screw...
Hope things are going well down there... it has literally been an inferno here out west...
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Ah wait... small skirt gets cut one side(possibly leaving fins..?)... Expanded skirt gets cut more equally...
??? ??? ???
::) :o ::)
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single load a few and push them back out...see what they look like... not saying the leade is THE problem...just like to cover bases... and brain storm/sprinkle some.. ;)
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Hi Kirby, it's good to hear from you!
I just acquired a lead thermometer, so I'm planning to try my mold again once this heat wave breaks. As it is now, I can't sit outside without sweating profusely, so I dare not fire up the lead pots. I have always run my Lee 10lb pots between 4 and 5 on the dial without any issues. That seems to work well on my 250-22-WC mold, but it is brass and not aluminum like this 4 cavity. We'll see how it goes.
At least one of my cavities seems to be dropping skirts as small as .251 and at last count there seems to be a half dozen or so having the same issues with their new molds. I spoke with Al and he said I was the 3rd person who had called with the same problem.
I'm not opposed to pulling my barrel and working on the leade, but this little bullpup was been a real shooter since I took it out of the box. It shoots slugs and several different brands of pellets well.
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I just chambered a a couple and pushed them back out. They chambered easily and if the process left any marks at all, I can't see it.
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well sounds like it is probably not a leade prob... but would check on a few with expanded skirts also just to see what I get...
I think would chuck up a piece of .25 dowel in the drill press and then angle the end slightly greater angle than skirt to try expanding skirts consistently that way..?
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well sounds like it is probably not a leade prob... but would check on a few with expanded skirts also just to see what I get...
I think would chuck up a piece of .25 dowel in the drill press and then angle the end slightly greater angle than skirt to try expanding skirts consistently that way..?
I'm going to use the thermometer and make sure I'm casting around 800 degrees to see if that helps. I've experimented with expanding the skirts and had some success, but I'm still getting crazy fliers. I don't want to give up, but I do have a 249-39 slug mold coming. If they shoot well, I might just send this one back for a refund.
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I just chambered a a couple and pushed them back out. They chambered easily and of the process left any marks at all, I can't see it.
wow wonder what land height is... a lot of folks have said the Hatsan barrels are L.W. clones as far as specs... at .248 should have been some marking on the skirt..? Have no Idea what the Hatsan chamber/leade is like could be a long chamber..?
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Just looking into the chamber I can't see any rifling,but there isn't much room. I should probably pull the barrel. I know it shoots the AA 25.4s very well and the skirts on them are between .258-260.
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If the 249-39 was a .250 or larger(so could size down) would be all over it... if it was available when $ match wants.. ;)
on that style of round my more tightly choked .25 rod likes the H&N Grizzly... they seem to be .0002 under land size .2495"...
that barrel is choked to about .2487 ish the looser choke mrod is about .2493 ...pic of loosly shot groups below... Kings shot highest... Jumbo 34g to the left and best... Grizzly hit lowest and the one to the right is not a flier ... aim point for it was even with horiz bar of cross under K in word kings... do not know if it was luck... but that is where I though it would...
without lube the griz do bad... have to head out for a while to deliver bed frame to son... back in a while...
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If the 249-39 was a .250 or larger(so could size down) would be all over it... if it was available when $ match wants.. ;)
on that style of round my more tightly choked .25 rod likes the H&N Grizzly... they seem to be .0002 under land size .2495"...
that barrel is choked to about .2487 ish the looser choke mrod is about .2493 ...pic of loosly shot groups below... Kings shot highest... Jumbo 34g to the left and best... Grizzly hit lowest and the one to the right is not a flier ... aim point for it was even with horiz bar of cross under K in word kings... do not know if it was luck... but that is where I though it would...
without lube the griz do bad... have to head out for a while to deliver bed frame to son... back in a while...
I can add some diameter by powder coating them. I'm not sure if it be enough but that's the plan anyway.
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I was casting at around 800 degrees so that may not help.
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you would think running the griz so loose would not work but sometimes what should not does...even with the naked eye have to get light right to see land marks even fainter on other side... they are that loose...
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I was casting at around 800 degrees so that may not help.
I really don't think it will help either. I'm pretty sure this entire run of molds is bad.
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you would think ruuning the griz so loose would not work but sometimes what should not does...even with the naked eye have to get light right to see land marks even fainter on other side... they are that loose...
That's why I went ahead and ordered the .249 mold. I figured it was worth a try.
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I was casting at around 800 degrees so that may not help.
I really don't think it will help either. I'm pretty sure this entire run of molds is bad.
I think you are right.
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It seems that both the .25 and .22 molds are plagued with this and honestly, I don't know if I should keep chasing the remaining .22 molds I wanted. I started loosing faith in NOE molds but I wholeheartedly hope they will get back on track.
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I think Matt hit the nail one the head in Wayne's post on the 34 grain mold. CNC machines don't change unless parameters are changed. The only variable is the tooling and worn tooling doesn't cut to the same dimensions.
Al offers more airgun molds than any other manufacturer that I'm aware of. He's an asset to our community, but is subject to the same chaos that's affecting all of our lives. There's no doubt in my mind that he will fix this if we give him time. I'm not the most patient person. I've been complaining a lot about the issues I'm having, but I do think it's important that we identify what's going on and help to get it corrected.
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I have a Hatsan that will take a 257 slug, so there is that ??? No 2 bores are the same, perhaps NOE needs to make their pellet molds drop larger, and supply pellet sizer options to get the perfect pellets ???
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The skirts on these are supposed to be .257 but they drop way under that.
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I’m hoping he gets this issue resolved. I’d like to start casting pellets. I already run ball for my muzzle loaders. I’ve recently moved up to .25 caliber and I’m hoping to find a pellet/mold combination that works in my guns. This mold and the 22gr wad cutter mold were my first choices but the feedback from this thread has given me pause. :(
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Al offers more airgun molds than any other manufacturer that I'm aware of. He's an asset to our community, but is subject to the same chaos that's affecting all of our lives. There's no doubt in my mind that he will fix this if we give him time. I'm not the most patient person. I've been complaining a lot about the issues I'm having, but I do think it's important that we identify what's going on and help to get it corrected.
I totally agree with you, Al is a huge asset to the air rifle community and he needs our support. I believe that he will take steps to correct these issues it it just the frustration I had after waiting, and waiting and finally getting the mold to cast a handful of pellets only to see them dribble out the muzzle end.
I’m hoping he gets this issue resolved. I’d like to start casting pellets. I already run ball for my muzzle loaders. I’ve recently moved up to .25 caliber and I’m hoping to find a pellet/mold combination that works in my guns. This mold and the 22gr wad cutter mold were my first choices but the feedback from this thread has given me pause. :(
Don't be disheartened, the issues will be fixed and things will get back on track. I have NOE's .22 hunter mold and it is a very good one, it is why I bought the .22 magnum molds. The waiting is a killer but once things get fixed, it will be well worth it. I also have the MP mold for 5.52 mm slugs but the cast is a bit too long to fit in Umarex magazines so it is single shot for those...
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Both of my.22 pellet molds work really good in my liberty but it has a tight bore so if the skirts are under size it would be ok. I don't know what the bore of my sentry is yet and no one has posted their findings from slugging the.25 cal barrel. I know I can't use the.25 cal Hunter pellets in my Sumatra mags because of the shirt diameter being under sized but have no problem with h$n cudas or jab 34 grain MK2.
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I did a little rough measuring last night, and it seems only one half of the mold is wrong for mine. Makes it a little easier for me to fix. I should probably call and ask permission to attempt repair, and return only if I can't make a repair. Probably better for him because it presents the possibility that I might fix it.
The odd part is that the heads are good at .250 measured at the parting line, and 90 degrees to the line.
The skirts are around .257 at the parting line, and .252 at 90 degrees.
Not too many errors that can allow this to happen, but I think something that can be polished to a good fix. I'm guessing a fixturing error that allowed one block to tip a couple thousandths out. All my pellets are light with what I believe to be pure lead, by almost a grain. More testing needed, going to melt everything and start over with an alloy.
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If the block itself isn't perfectly square or there is a slightest chip in the jig or vice it will cause what happened to your mold.
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I have a new stock .225 mold that's great, so I'm wondering if it's just the cherries for the pellet molds that are worn. It seems Iike demand has been really high for them.
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Guys
Since Ed started this post, I hope he won't mind,
(to keep most of the info in the same post, and be easy to find etc,)
if I add some info on this pellet sizing project, I have been working on,
to adapt NOE sizer bushings to better fit what I want to do etc.
I am just about finished up with the reamer spec's/drawing to use on the NOE size bushings,
to head size (up or down), and or expand the skirts sizes up to fit most barrel bores,
in the 22 and 25 calibers, all in 1 bushing for each caliber, that will fit my pellet press etc.
I'll post the info in this section,
before sending the spec's/drawings to D Kiff at PTG for grinding of the reamer etc.
With the help of very dictated member here, THANK YOU. ;D
I won't divulge his name, as too NOT put any more burdens in his world etc.
If he wants to step up to the plate, he may do so without his help, I don't think KNOW,
I couldn't have finished this project, except for the very rough drawings, I started etc.
Don
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Guys
Since Ed started this post, I hope he won't mind,
(to keep most of the info in the same post, and be easy to find etc,)
if I add some info on this pellet sizing project, I have been working on,
to adapt NOE sizer bushings to better fit what I want to do etc.
I am just about finished up with the reamer spec's/drawing to use on the NOE size bushings,
to head size (up or down), and or expand the skirts sizes up to fit most barrel bores,
in the 22 and 25 calibers, all in 1 bushing for each caliber, that will fit my pellet press etc.
I'll post the info in this section,
before sending the spec's/drawings to D Kiff at PTG for grinding of the reamer etc.
With the help of very dictated member here, THANK YOU. ;D
I won't divulge his name, as too NOT put any more burdens in his world etc.
If he wants to step up to the plate, he may do so without his help, I don't think KNOW,
I couldn't have finished this project, except for the very rough drawings, I started etc.
Don
I don't mind at all. I'm here to learn and grow in understanding of this new territory. Casting pellets is a whole new world.
My wife had a setback last week, but she's doing better now, so I hope to get those pellets in the mail to you soon.
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Thanks Ed
No big hurry, I am getting to know set backs, up close and personally lately......
I have been grounded on a 8' tethered plastic hose/bag combo, so I have to be very careful,
or there is will be LOTS of pain in the center of mass......LOL,
I think know my VA Dr thinks I am crazy, (nothing new there),
they are the ones telling me to go do it........... ::) instead of just sitting around,
and when I show back up, needing help/supplies etc, she just rolls her eyes.........LOL
and gives me that "You Dummy look".
Back to the regular programming, ;)
Since I have been reading lots of posts stating that XYZ pellets don't shoot accurately etc,
I thought, I would go this route and see if the accuracy couldn't be improved for most pellets etc.
IHMO, if the head and skirt diameters are properly sized for THAT BARREL,
then you should have decent accuracy within reason,
providing the bbl twist rate and horsepower is correct for the rifle/pellet combo etc.
I know, that I can get the cheap CMHP pellets to shoot within minute of Hosp at 45-50yds,
(I am not a great target shooter), with most all the 22 cal AG's around here,
that have SSG installed, and both ends of the pellet are sized for that bbl etc.
I really believe that with this option done to the NOE sizer bushings in the 25 calibers,
accuracy will be improved, and if that information and testing results, bears out to be correct,
I can see 22 and 17 bushing also converted in my arsenal to get the most accuracy possible......... ;)
from most all calibers/pellets etc.
BUT, "Speeds fine, but accuracy is Final".
Tia,
Don
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I've been casting bullets long enough to know that accuracy improves when I size them in most cases. For this reason, I've always liked my molds to drop fatter than spec. It stands to reason that pellets should also benefit. I know the process is more complex due to head and skirt size difference, so I'll be following your work with interest.
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Had a few minutes before work this morning and grabbed my calipers... Found one that must have been from the 800 degree batch, head size was 251 or 252 and some level of alloy because they test harder than pure lead. The skirts were interesting. I got .257 one way and .262 90 degrees. I also measured the rough thickness of the skirt in 4 points (90 degrees each) and found that I was getting 0.039 at all 4 points...
If the skirt is the same thickness and we assume the pin is actually round (haven't checked this yet), then can we assume that the skirt is getting bent while being dropped out of the mold?
These were casting at around a BHN of 10 (need to buy from a better source) with the pencil style testing. Should have been plenty hard to drop on there nose into an aluminum pan with an old T shirt for a cushion. I don't get deformation when I drop 125gr hollow point rounds on their noses into the same tray from the same alloy (did a few that night and quit because I didn't like the results).
Still going to melt all this stuff down and try at higher (all 800 F) and see what happens. Need to check the pins and see why I'm getting little fins of flashing around the outside edge of the skirts on one side (both pellets too). Might be from the pressure pouring, something that needs checking. Need to find a little laboratory hot plate to help too.
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I still haven't tried out my temperature controled 4lb Lee pot yet, I probably will when I try adding tin again sometime. Everything that I cast is with pure lead with a 4BHN.
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Guys
Here is photo of the drawing showing a 27gr NOE pellet in the sizing die, to fit my pellet sizing press.
Click on the photo and it will enlarge.
Any questions or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Tia,
Don
(https://i.ibb.co/f2D0vzQ/20210802-115725.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f2D0vzQ)
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Looks perfect to me! I'd buy a multi caliber set of those for sure.
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The NOE pellet skirt is smaller than 0.260" (it is supposed to be 0.257"), do you plan on having a tapered base punch to enlarge it?.... Also, how do you plan to stop the nose of the pellet at the desired spot, both to get the desired head size, and so that the base punch will enlarge the skirt?....
Bob
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Thanks Ed
My plan is making a full set of these reamers/bushings in all the calibers of 17, 20, 22, 25 calibers.
I hate bothering the member who drew this drawing up using a CAD Program, as there is several hours work here.
I greatly appreciate his time drawing the 22/25 calibers for me.
I have to find a simple CAD program to finish up the series of bushings etc.
Don
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The NOE pellet skirt is smaller than 0.260" (it is supposed to be 0.257"), do you plan on having a tapered base punch to enlarge it?.... Also, how do you plan to stop the nose of the pellet at the desired spot, both to get the desired head size, and so that the base punch will enlarge the skirt?....
Bob
I would say an adjustable punch rod would work. I could be as easy as a collar with some set screws.
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One other thing, for ease of manufacture.... You might consider using a tapered pin reamer (of the appropriate size) to create the taper for sizing the head.... They are 1/4" per foot of length (total taper), which works out to 0.0208" per inch, or a whisker over 0.002" per 0.100" of length for the head sizing section.... That is slightly less taper than your drawing....
Bob
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Bob
You are correct on having a tapered skirt pin to expand the skirts etc.
With my adapted press, I can adjust the depth of the pellet inside the sizing die taper,
the head pin will hold the pellet at that dimension, and then skirt pin can expand the skirt taper,
to whatever dimension, up to .260" diameter in 25 caliber.
This bushing can do all 25 caliber pellets and the 22 cal bushing will do the same,
along with the 17 cal bushing.
These reamers will be ground by D Kiff at PTG, using a throating reamer with pilot,
this is the reason for the straight section on the bottom of the bushing, to help guide the reamer etc.
Tia,
Don
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Don and Bob,
I've got to say I'm pretty excited about all this. I was about ready to give up on pellet molds.
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So you will be using custom reamers, with a step in them?.... Expensive but a great way to do it....
Bob
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Ed
I have picked up on several non NOE pellets that don't shoot very well, in all the calibers, 17 - 22 - 25 calibers.
Could the cause BE? > the head/skirts dimensions DON'T FIT that barrel bore dimensions?
Providing that the air rifle has the horsepower/correct spec's to drive those pellets accurately etc.
This is the main reason for my drive in this area, I plan on testing several of the non accurate pellets
as soon as I can get around etc.
It is my hope that others will add viable information............ ;)
We has some very talented members here...... ;)
Don
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Bob
I have a email into PTG to a quote for this reamer, no reply yet.
My last reamer ground was less than $75.00 for a PB 17 throater.
It is a very simple reamer to grind, straight .260" section, then a 1.500*degree tapered section,
and another straight section for the pilot area.
If there is any problem areas, Dave will let me know and have a correction for it.
Don
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Well, casting at 800 with my new lead thermometer put me right at 5 on my dial which is where I normally leave it. Needless to say, I had the same results. None of my heads or skirts are anywhere close to round either. I can rotate the pellets and get sizes between .248 and .250.
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Don,
If I understand correctly, you plan to ream a sizing bushing. Are the bushings hardened? If so, annealing would be needed.
Would it be feasible to simply start with a piece of soft drill rod with a through hole drilled and reamed to pilot dimension?
Dave
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Bob
Here is my sizing press and dies, Post # 12, this is the 22 caliber series, the 25 cal will be the same.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=189354.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=189354.0)
The 2nd photo shows the skirt (left side) and the head pin (right side) for the Crosman HP 22 pellets,
the little tip on the skirt pin is removed and polished up.
Further down the photo's shows the black threaded adjustment for the head pin,
there is a stop on the silver head pin that rests against the black adjustment screw etc.
HTH's
Don
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Dave
The bushings I have are not hardened, you can see screw the set marks from tightening in the press, 90% of the work is done by NOE,
I'll use a 241" size bushing and have the reamer with the same size pilot etc.
A file will cut the bushing.......... ;)
HTH's,
Don
Don,
If I understand correctly, you plan to ream a sizing bushing. Are the bushings hardened? If so, annealing would be needed. Would it be feasible to simply start with a piece of soft drill rod with a through hole drilled and reamed to pilot dimension?
Dave
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Sounds good to me! Carry on!
Dave
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Ed, that's no good. At least the heads on mine measure roughly correct. That makes me think I can save mine. And if I start getting decent results I'll send some down to you. Just not sure when I'm going to try again.
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Well, after doing a trigger adj and shooting of a bench with bags I get the same shot gun pattern just a little smaller. Still need to try the cudas to see if they group better or not.
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Ok Guys
Going with the 25 cal bushing sizer build style,
What head sizes should be considered for the 22 cal bushing, (will be copy of the 25 cal bushing),
only with 22 caliber head dimensions.
I have the following head diameters in the 22 cal bushing drawing now,
.214" -.215"- .216" - .217" - .218" -.219",
the .217" diameter is centered in the center of the total length of .625" total length.
And the same question for the 20 cal, head diameters, (think sized down 22 cal pellets), 4 head sizes? ;)
And the same question for the 177 cal, head diameters of bushing, there should be 4-6 head diameters?
Your thoughts and suggestions,
Tia,
Don
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The only thing I cast in .22 is my 30gr BBT and it's a .217. Accuracy is great in all my 22s
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Ed
I was not only thinking about the NOE and other cast pellets/slugs,
but ALL the OEM commercial pellets/slugs that don't shoot accurately,
it would be nice to have a means to correct those pellets/slugs, into shooting as accurate as possible,
providing the shooting platform fit's within reasonable spec's for the caliber etc. ;)
Tia,
Don
The only thing I cast in .22 is my 30gr BBT and it's a .217. Accuracy is great in all my 22s
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Ed
I was not only thinking about the NOE and other cast pellets/slugs,
but ALL the OEM commercial pellets/slugs that don't shoot accurately,
it would be nice to have a means to correct those pellets/slugs, into shooting as accurate as possible,
providing the shooting platform fit's within reasonable spec's for the caliber etc. ;)
Tia,
Don
The only thing I cast in .22 is my 30gr BBT and it's a .217. Accuracy is great in all my 22s
That's a great idea. I'll try to measure some of my commercial pellets that shoot well.
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Well, I'm now sure my accracy problems are the now cast hunter pellets. I slugged the barrel and got.2635 groove diameter and the pellets are coming in at.250 - .252. I need at least .254 to get the bore to seal. I guess I need to call Al and see about getting this fixed.
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Well, I'm now sure my accracy problems are the now cast hunter pellets. I slugged the barrel and got.2635 groove diameter and the pellets are coming in at.250 - .252. I need at least .254 to get the bore to seal. I guess I need to call Al and see about getting this fixed.
He asked me to send mine back with some pellets I had cast with it. I haven't had a chance to do it yet though. Got my 39 grain slug mold yesterday, so I'm not in a hurry to sort out the pellets.
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I have never heard of a .25 cal airgun barrel that is larger than a .257 cal PB barrel, and they measure 0.257" groove and 0.250" land.... LW barrels are 0.248" land and 0.254" groove, and smaller at the choke....
I would suggest that for some reason, your barrel is grossly oversize.... Factory pellets would also rattle around in there....
Bob
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I have never heard of a .25 cal airgun barrel that is larger than a .257 cal PB barrel, and they measure 0.257" groove and 0.250" land.... LW barrels are 0.248" land and 0.254" groove, and smaller at the choke....
I would suggest that for some reason, your barrel is grossly oversize.... Factory pellets would also rattle around in there....
Bob
I'm beginning to think that my issues with this mold are undersized and out of round heads. I'm about to post my results with my new .249 39 grain slug mold.
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Just bought a used hot plate on eBay for trying to keep the mold at a better temperature, won't be testing these again until it arrives. This is what I bought, $54 including tax and shipping, just hope it really works well enough to sustain around 400 to 500 degrees. https://us.vwr.com/store/product/4778117/barnstead-thermolyne-electric-hot-plate-type-2300-thermo-scientific
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Hotplates definitely help. I followed the advice of others and put an old circular saw blade on top of burner to sit the molds on. If you can find a metal coffee can or something similar, cut an opening at the top and turn it upside down over the molds to create an oven effect.
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I also had better mold pre heat results with a hot plate with a buffer plate made from a heating plate salvaged from a coffee maker, amd added a sextion of stainless chimney adapter for wood stove from hardware store as a retention device topped with on3 of my salvaged cast iron fry pans that fit the diameter of the hot plate burner, can heat to temp one mold and start the preheat on another while warming up the first mold then while casting one size etc. drop the 2nd mold into the lower hotter section to finish to temp for the next style pellet/ slug for the next needed batch. Alxo use this for mold break in multi tasking is my way do go.
Anyone needing a good read should read the GTA like I do ;)
ps ok maybe I do not type so well since now they call it keyboarding ???
BTW this AM I ran out of now info or things I was able to help with so started reading post from the beginning of GTA new site in reguards to slug shooting and other things I was wanting to see how things have changed or stayed the samish. 8)
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The head often doesn't seal in the bore anyways, in fact with many pellets it barely rides the top of the lands.... It is the skirt that seals, and usually it blows out to fill the rifling anyways.... Here is a photo of JSB Pellets, the two on the right were pushed through the bore, and the two on the left were fired....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Ballistics/.highres/Pellet Obturation_zpsyzq1fbkq.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/rsterne/a/ad32680a-7969-443d-ab0e-5a65c7b8979e/p/e267fb6f-a35f-4045-a302-3c31b6c9122d)
Note that there are hardly any rifling marks on the head of the pellet, and that they are not very deep on the skirt of the unfired ones.... Also, note how much the skirt has blown out to match the bore on firing....
Bob
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The head often doesn't seal in the bore anyways, in fact with many pellets it barely rides the top of the lands.... It is the skirt that seals, and usually it blows out to fill the rifling anyways.... Here is a photo of JSB Pellets, the two on the right were pushed through the bore, and the two on the left were fired....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Ballistics/.highres/Pellet Obturation_zpsyzq1fbkq.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/rsterne/a/ad32680a-7969-443d-ab0e-5a65c7b8979e/p/e267fb6f-a35f-4045-a302-3c31b6c9122d)
Note that there are hardly any rifling marks on the head of the pellet, and that they are not very deep on the skirt of the unfired ones.... Also, note how much the skirt has blown out to match the bore on firing....
Bob
I see what you mean. I guess I was right in blaming the undersize skirts in the first place then.
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Take a tin that has been abused in shipping and has bent skirts, now shoot them and see what kind of accuracy you get. Undersized, especially in one area, will definitively wreck accuracy.
If the skirts were uniform but undersize, I'd expect lower velocities from the air getting around the skirts. But I'd also think that you might get vertical strings because I'd like to think the horizontal accuracy might be OK.
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Ed
Here is some info I found when comparing 25 pellets, unfired and fired and caught with no pellet damage.
Unknown brand name of 25 cal pellet, (soft lead)
the unfired pellet had overall length of .353",
the recovered fired pellet had an overall length of .348".
The obturation ring on the pellet skirt was approximately .055 to .060" in width,
(the edge of the pellet skirt that sealed the bore).
Have you fired and caught any of the undersized NOE pellets and measured for results etc?
I'll have to find the rest of the fired collection....... ;)
Tia,
Don
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Looking at Bob's pellet images above:
The skirt is thin, and relatively unsupported at the open end. Thus, pushing the pellet through the barrel just sizes the skirt down into the skirt's "open space" at low force, without producing a long line of hard engagement at the skirt OD.
When you shoot the pellet, the air pressure inside is not only offering support to counter that sizing down force, the air pressure is actually "blowing the skirt out", until there is enough support from the barrel to prevent further deformation.
If the skirt thickness were increased at its open end, then pushing a pellet through the barrel should produce a slightly longer line of engagement with the groove diameter. If the skirt were solid, that would produce more significant engagement than the already solid pellet head; because the head is usually smaller in diameter than the skirt.
I notice that pellets shot into clay from my Baikal MP 46M seem to have a very short line of engagement at the groove diameter of the barrel. I think this is because this 4 FPE SSP probably generates less than 1000 PSI from its single cocking stroke.
A 4 FPE springer pistol probably would produce a more spikey pressure pulse, with a longer apparent bearing length at the open end of the pellet skirt. Yes, the interaction between actual pellet skirt and barrel groove diameters obviously matter. For a proper comparison, the same pellets and a very similar barrel land and groove form and diameter should be used.
Bottom line: When pushing a pellet through (the unchoked portion of) a barrel, I want to see a clean, even, unbroken ring of hard contact between skirt OD and barrel groove diameter. That contact witness ring does not need to be longer than perhaps 0.01" to satisfy me that the pellet skirt is large enough to work when actually shooting it.
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Ed
And any others that have the 25 NOE molds,
Haven't hear from you lately........ ::)
What was the best size of your pellets skirts on the 25 cal NOE mold?,
would a max of .258/260" diameter work better?
I am working on getting the BEST skirt diameters possible, in all calibers from 177 thru 25,
along with the guy running the sizing program, he is the brains,
we added the Best skirt sizing for the LW barrels also, so should have all the bases covered.......I hope.
Thanks,
Don
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Ed
And any others that have the 25 NOE molds,
Haven't hear from you lately........ ::)
What was the best size of your pellets skirts on the 25 cal NOE mold?,
would a max of .258/260" diameter work better?
I am working on getting the BEST skirt diameters possible, in all calibers from 177 thru 25,
along with the guy running the sizing program, he is the brains,
we added the Best skirt sizing for the LW barrels also, so should have all the bases covered.......I hope.
Thanks,
Don
I haven't had time to cast anything lately, but I can tell you that my Flashpup loves AA 25.4s and the skirts on them measure .258 to .260.
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I haven't had time to cast anything lately, but I can tell you that my Flashpup loves AA 25.4s and the skirts on them measure .258 to .260.
My impression is that Hatsan barrel bores tend to run on the large side. Is that a good generalization? If so, what head diameter does you Flashpup prefer, Ed?
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Mine seems to prefer .250 heads and it likes .250 slugs.
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Thanks, Ed
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No problem at all. These Hatsan barrels are accurate but they do seem to be a little large.
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I happen to have an unmodified spare Green Mountain .25 Marauder barrel. Its breech measures .260" up to the middle of the TP (without breech O-ring installed). So, sizing .25 pellet skirts to .258" would not seem out of order. Pellets with .258" skirts will probably take a little push to get past the breech O-ring, but hopefully not enough to cause any trouble. The probe nose at full diameter is .253" on my Gen 2 Marauder.
From a thread I posted a few years back, the Green Mountain .25 barrels have a groove diameter of .254", before the choke. The "chamber" on the stock Marauder barrel is very abrupt. So, it is useful to "throat" the chamber to rifling transition so it is more of a slope than a step. If that has been done, a larger skirt diameter should not be more "catchy" on chambering.
Air rifles with side levers are probably not even going to notice if there is a slightly higher loading force near the end of the stroke.
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Hmm, both my G.M. gen II .25 are ~.2497/.252 ...are you sure yours is G.M. ; how many lands and grooves...
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and yes both of mine needed leade work to send the 40g BBT mainly because of the rear band catching and causing the short round to load cockeyed... for every pellet but the Benji domed the stock lack of a leade was not a prob... but the Benji domed sprayed...now that they both have a low angle tapered leade the Benji domed do almost as good as the JSB 25.4...as good as the Cudas and better than the H&N 20g at 50 yards...
If just shooting pellets I do not think all that low of an angle is needed for the leade like it is for some slugs...but yep just hard edged rifling cuts into the Benji domed skirts because of them being harder/stiffer skirted...
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Hmm, both my G.M. gen II .25 are ~.2497/.252 ...are you sure yours is G.M. ; how many lands and grooves...
I think your results are more typical. Perhaps I was not making good measurements in this thread:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=137096.msg1372425#msg1372425 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=137096.msg1372425#msg1372425)
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A few weeks have passed... Anyone get a replacement mold?
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A few weeks have passed... Anyone get a replacement mold?
Al hasn't even returned my email.
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I haven't bothered with sending mine back yet. I figured I would let him catch up on orders first.
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A few weeks have passed... Anyone get a replacement mold?
Al hasn't even returned my email.
He doesn't really do email, been there and tried that. Eventually he did return my message. You'll really need to call him.
Ed, I'm going to try and get out this weekend and make a few more. Going to be really careful about ejecting them this time. The skirts on mine are uniform thickness which suggests that they are being cast correctly and getting crushed when they come out of the mold. They are normally the correct size across the split line, and short 90 degrees which again makes me think there could be operator error involved and I need to look at my process more carefully. I'm thinking I need to slow way down, eject them while still on the pins and then carefully remove them from the pins and measure. I think I checked the pins to be round, but now I can't remember, that could be another issue but not very likely.
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A few weeks have passed... Anyone get a replacement mold?
Al hasn't even returned my email.
He doesn't really do email, been there and tried that. Eventually he did return my message. You'll really need to call him.
Ed, I'm going to try and get out this weekend and make a few more. Going to be really careful about ejecting them this time. The skirts on mine are uniform thickness which suggests that they are being cast correctly and getting crushed when they come out of the mold. They are normally the correct size across the split line, and short 90 degrees which again makes me think there could be operator error involved and I need to look at my process more carefully. I'm thinking I need to slow way down, eject them while still on the pins and then carefully remove them from the pins and measure. I think I checked the pins to be round, but now I can't remember, that could be another issue but not very likely.
I'm not sure at this time if the hunters are or aren't shooting accurately. My ldc is clipping.
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Any body get their hunter mold replaced by Al?
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I haven't had a chance to try my original again to make certain it isn't my fault.
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I see I was a few months late getting into casting and missed out on the .25 pellet molds!
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I haven't sent mine back to NOE yet. Life has been crazy.
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I sent my mold back in July and just called Al yesterday. He seems committed to give us new molds but he has to make some first. If you see them on his website call him, I am pretty sure he will ship you one.
One reason I called Al is I got a new 25 caliber gun, a P35, and I shot a few of the cast pellets from my last run that I still had through it. The groups are about half the size of the groups I got shooting my Avenger. With it's favorite pellets (FX 25.4) the Avenger shoots smaller groups than the P35. But my Avenger is a lot pickier about pellets than my P35. My Avenger hates H&N FTT, for instance, and that is the best pellet I've tried so far in my P35. When my Avenger doesn't like a pellet, it didn't like the cast ones, it scatters them into 1.5 to 2 inch groups at 25 yards. It puts FX into 1/4 inch groups at that distance regularly. When the P35 doesn't particularly like a pellet, it will still put it into a group under an inch. It puts FTTs into groups under 1/2 and inch usually. At least one group with the cast were that size and all were under an inch.
Al admitted the mold was casting pellets undersize but said in his test of it they were only under by about half a thousandths. I measured more than that which he thinks is either alloy or technique. I don't know. All thinks I may not have had the mold hot enough.
I plan to try and remember to check the website to see if he lists them and then call him to make sure mine is on the way.
If you know anybody with a 25 caliber you might try giving them a few pellets from your mold to test. If they work better for them they might be interested in your mold.
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I've run mine hot, cold and everywhere in between. I've tried different alloys and pure lead. It's dropping small no matter what I do. I'm getting close to being in the 1k club and I own quite a few other molds that I've never had this issue with over thousands of casts.
I have no doubt he will make it right, and I will send mine back eventually. I just haven't had the time or energy to do it yet.
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Eddie,
You are certainly a lot more experienced than I am. I have difficulty ruling out a possible contribution from my limited casting experience. But I tried different temperatures and also pre-heated the mold. But what I was suggesting in my previous post is that I think part of it may be that my Avenger doesn't like this pellet. If it was a little bigger I'm hoping that helps but it may not. I have not slugged the barrels but I think my Avenger's bore is bigger than my P35. I've noticed that the JSBs the Avenger really likes drag some in the P35s magazine while the ones that just drop into the P35 magazine are the ones the Avenger doesn't like. So I think size is also a contributor.
I shot another 5 groups with my cast pellets today with the P35 and it again grouped them OK. Not great but I would call the accuracy usable. Hopefully it will be even better with my new mold (whenever I get it).
I think my P35 tolerates pellets a little on the small size better than my Avenger.
Jim
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I don't know the bore size of the.25 Avenger but I know the.22 barrel is on the small side. You really need to slug your barrels to know what is going on.
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Rob you're exactly right about that, my Liberty shoots .215 diameter excellemt whereas my Challenger 22 shoots the .218 diameter excellent just like the slugs drop from the NOE 218-25-RF.
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For what it's worth the pins in my .457 mold don't always sit flush with the bottom of the mold. I first noticed it when casting flat nose as some had a slight recess and others were fully flat. That would definitely affect the skirt on the .250 hunter molds. I might pass on slug molds that use pins in the future because of this inconsistency.
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On the other NOE mold I have in .357, I found that procedure was important! You need to figure out which way to turn it when closing. Some may be upside down, some may be right side up. Sounds like your is right side up.
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I got my replacement mold from NOE today. It arrived with the mail a few minutes ago so it will probably be tomorrow before I fire up the melting furnace and hot plate pre-heater and see if I can measure a difference (I have a few of the pellets from the mold I sent back) and, more importantly, if they shoot different. When I bought the mold my only 25 caliber was my Avenger but I recently added a second, a P35. The P35 shot the prior molds pellets a lot better than the Avenger did. It will be interesting to see how both guns do with the new molds pellets.
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I cast 50-60 pellets using the lightest (longest) pin today. I don't really see any difference from the pellets I have from my old mold and my guns don't seem to see a difference either. Groups from my Avenger are still all over 1 inch. I got a couple groups about 1/2 inch with my P35 but that was with the pellets from the old mold. Groups with the new mold were generally around 3/4 inch but some were over 1 inch. All my groups were at 100 feet which is about 30 meters. I don't think the two smaller groups were because the new mold is better than the old, probably just my casting technique or shooting. I am pretty sure my AV just does not like this pellet.
I will probably mess around with it some more in the P35 but I don't see hope for the Avenger with this pellet. Fortunately I still have some FX 25.4 grain it really likes. I haven't tried pellets that are cast with the shorter pins in the P35 nor have I tried going up or down on mold temperature. I tried all those things with the Avenger and it did not help. But it might in the P35. If it does not, I will put my casting stuff away and just shoot purchased pellets - at least as long as I can find them. Actually, the P35 seems to like slugs at least as well as pellets. I have some Nielsen on the way to try.
My measurement tools are not terribly precise, a digital dial caliper, but the skirts on the pellets from the new mold are still significantly smaller in diameter than the H&N FTT my P35 likes. But I am not sure that is the issue. Earlier I measured the cast versus the FX pellets my Avenger likes and thought the smaller diameter was the issue. But the Avenger hates the FTT pellets the P35 likes. The FTT are if anything larger than the FX pellets. My working hypothesis is that my guns do not like these pellets very much. That's not fundimentally different from the P35 liking FTT more than FX or JSB while the Avenger really likes the JSB/FX and hates the FTT. Neither like Benjamin pellets much.
I think it is a quality mold but unfortunately the pellets it makes my guns do not shoot very well.
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I cast 50-60 pellets using the lightest (longest) pin today. I don't really see any difference from the pellets I have from my old mold and my guns don't seem to see a difference either. Groups from my Avenger are still all over 1 inch. I got a couple groups about 1/2 inch with my P35 but that was with the pellets from the old mold. Groups with the new mold were generally around 3/4 inch but some were over 1 inch. All my groups were at 100 feet which is about 30 meters. I don't think the two smaller groups were because the new mold is better than the old, probably just my casting technique or shooting. I am pretty sure my AV just does not like this pellet.
I will probably mess around with it some more in the P35 but I don't see hope for the Avenger with this pellet. Fortunately I still have some FX 25.4 grain it really likes. I haven't tried pellets that are cast with the shorter pins in the P35 nor have I tried going up or down on mold temperature. I tried all those things with the Avenger and it did not help. But it might in the P35. If it does not, I will put my casting stuff away and just shoot purchased pellets - at least as long as I can find them. Actually, the P35 seems to like slugs at least as well as pellets. I have some Nielsen on the way to try.
My measurement tools are not terribly precise, a digital dial caliper, but the skirts on the pellets from the new mold are still significantly smaller in diameter than the H&N FTT my P35 likes. But I am not sure that is the issue. Earlier I measured the cast versus the FX pellets my Avenger likes and thought the smaller diameter was the issue. But the Avenger hates the FTT pellets the P35 likes. The FTT are if anything larger than the FX pellets. My working hypothesis is that my guns do not like these pellets very much. That's not fundimentally different from the P35 liking FTT more than FX or JSB while the Avenger really likes the JSB/FX and hates the FTT. Neither like Benjamin pellets much.
I think it is a quality mold but unfortunately the pellets it makes my guns do not shoot very well.
Are you interested in selling the mold?
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Jim,
Did you measure the skirts from the new mold to see if they are the same diameter in two places? On mine I get around .257 where the mold parts and .252 90 degrees from that line. If yours throws them at .257 in both directions, I may get in touch and see if I can exchange mine so I can try it.
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Jim,
Did you measure the skirts from the new mold to see if they are the same diameter in two places? On mine I get around .257 where the mold parts and .252 90 degrees from that line. If yours throws them at .257 in both directions, I may get in touch and see if I can exchange mine so I can try it.
Me also. I'd like to be able to shoot them out of my Sumatra like I originally bought it for.
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I have not given up on my mold yet but I might. I want to try to see if I can get the pellets it makes shooting decently from at least one of my guns, most likely the P35. I have measured pellet skirts in several places and have seen differences but I did not associate the sizes to the part line of the mold. It is very faint but I will try that. I don't think I measured a skirt at .257 from either of my molds, however. I'm seeing more like .252 to .255. But mainly yesterday I wanted to see if they would shoot. I am still not convinced the skirt size is the whole and possibly any of the issue. My P35 shoots some slugs as well as it shoots its favorite pellets and I am pretty sure they are not close to .257.
I think I had the lead a little cooler for the last batch from my old mold than where I had it yesterday. So my next test, hopefully today, will be with the pot turned down a little. The pellets from the new mold were in the same weight range as the "old" one but trended slightly heavier. I shot mostly the heavy ones yesterday. If I remember right when I ran the pot cooler they trended down in weight a little. (I weighed them at 26.2 to 26.8 grains with most from the new mold 26.6-26.8).
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.257 is specified in the design, so you may have a problem mold too.
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I got my housework done for today and cast 30-40 more pellets at slightly lower pot temperature. I will give you some skirt measurements but I will also include some data that I think indicates this is not, at best, the total issue some of us are having. I'm waiting on the temperature to rise a little before shooting the new set.
I only measured a few pellets of the set I cast today but was getting .249-.254 skirt diameter. I measured 4 from yesterdays batch and two were as wide as .255. One of those I could see the part line and it measured .255 at the part diameter and also measured .255 90 degrees away from this line. The other two were as small as .248 and as big as .253.
I measured 4 of the left overs from the old mold and got diameters as small as .250 and as big as .256.
Within the limitations of my measuring technique and the small sample size I chose to use I do not see a difference between the old and new molds. from the standpoint of skirt diameter. I do see a difference in weight, however. My pellets from my old mold only went up to 26.6 grains with the long pins and I got pellets up to 27 grains yesterday and I got 7 that heavy today and 1 I measured at 27.2. 26.6 was my predominant weight both days with the new mold - it was the heaviest I got with the old one. So they are heavier, a little bit, from the new mold. It isn't skirts so it is heads? Haven't measured but may.
The three projectiles I get to shoot into .5 to .25 inch groups at 30 meters with my P35 are H&N FTT, H&N Slug HP in .250 & 34 grain and H&N Slug HP in .249 & 28 grain. (To be fair, I get bigger groups sometimes too but I think it's my shooting) I measured skirt diameter on 3 FTTs and got from .255 to .261. Significantly bigger than my cast. But the lighter slug I measured at .248-.252 (3 slugs multiple places on each) and the heavier one I measured .249 to .253. The slug diameters overlap my cast pellets a little but they are mostly smaller. If it is the small skirts of my cast pellets causing them to have indifferent accuracy, why do the slugs shoot nice groups? Clearly the barrel can engage a projectile of the pellets diameter. These slugs have a shallow dish in the back but it is not going to get pushed out into the rifling like a pellet skirt. (I have some NSA 26.8 grain slugs on the way to try)
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My latest batch of cast slugs shot about like my first batch. I had a 9/16 group at 30 meters but I had some over an inch too. They shoot not quite as good as commercial pellets my P35 doesn't like much. I'll probably keep the mold as my ultimate "if all else fails" option but keep using commercially made pellets - or possibly slugs. I may try a few more things with my casting process but the pellets look good. They just don't shoot very good. I also have not tried the other pins - that make heavier pellets. I doubt that will help but I'll never know for sure if I do not try.
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I found that the NOE cast pellet shot better in my sentry than the h&n barracuda's. I still can't use them in my Sumatra. They won't stay in the magazine due to the skirt being too small.
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I'll soon be trying the NOE 250-27-RF pellets out in my 2nd gen DAR, I just opened up the box to check to see if it's holding air after installing the part I waited almost a year for it. I've already got a whole bunch of them cast up already because I initially was planning on using them in my AEA 25 cal semi auto however that gun simply loves the 250-34-RF's. I think that I've got the DAR regulator set right but I'll still do a ten shot chrony string before I mount a scope on it, the guns been sitting for probably close to a month and I don't really recall exactly how fast it's shooting them. If it's not over 950fps I'll go ahead and try them because I'd also like to be able to shoot the 34.5 grain magnum hunters from it as well. It's been soooo long since I've been out in the woods with a DAR it will seem like a treat once again with a very light rifle.
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I took the barrel off my P35 today and polished it. I pushed pellets of it's preferred FTT and a couple of these cast pellets. The marks on the heads and the skirts of both look about the same to me. The skirts are definitely engaging the rifling. I was hoping the group size would go down with the barrel polish but they did not. But the fact that the skirts obviously are engaging the rifling make me more certain it is not an issue with the size of the pellets the mold casts.
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I took the barrel off my P35 today and polished it. I pushed pellets of it's preferred FTT and a couple of these cast pellets. The marks on the heads and the skirts of both look about the same to me. The skirts are definitely engaging the rifling. I was hoping the group size would go down with the barrel polish but they did not. But the fact that the skirts obviously are engaging the rifling make me more certain it is not an issue with the size of the pellets the mold casts.
I had given up on mine and had it boxed up to send back until I tried them in my 362 .25 conversion. The barrel came from Alchemy Airwerks and I'm told it probably came from a Crosman break barrel. It's definitely a smaller bore than my Flashpup and it shoots them great. Looks like I'll be hanging onto the mold now.
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I finally gave this another try... Just not happy, and that's before I measured them. Took great care to try and prevent bending the skirts this time, but the pin alignment keeps changing. Doesn't mater if I close the mold right side up, upside down, or any other direction. I just keep getting pins out of position and skirts with extra fins on them. Using pure lead and this is an aluminum mold, gravity pour so the pressure is pretty low by the time it hits the mold.
Probably going to kick this one down the street and let someone else see if they can make it work. Otherwise what I'm turning out is only good for a Blitz in full auto mode at close range for Youtube destruction.
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I finally gave this another try... Just not happy, and that's before I measured them. Took great care to try and prevent bending the skirts this time, but the pin alignment keeps changing. Doesn't mater if I close the mold right side up, upside down, or any other direction. I just keep getting pins out of position and skirts with extra fins on them. Using pure lead and this is an aluminum mold, gravity pour so the pressure is pretty low by the time it hits the mold.
Probably going to kick this one down the street and let someone else see if they can make it work. Otherwise what I'm turning out is only good for a Blitz in full auto mode at close range for Youtube destruction.
I get a lot of flash around the edges of my skirts and have to adjust the pins on my NOE pellet molds. It takes some fiddling but I eventually get them settled so that they cast perfect with the pins as low as they go after adjusting the steel tangs. I perform the same alignment on my HP slug molds as well.
I know in the instructions it says to wash the mold with soapy water and a tooth brush, use a bic lighter, etc. Sunday I "seasoned" my .25 Magnum mold like a wood stove and used the mold as it is out of the box with some sprue plate lube. I preheated the mold and conducted progressively longer casting sessions until it was producing good pellets every time.
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I got some that are really good, but maybe only 50% and that average just isn't worth the time to pick them out and melt then back down. My 88 grain 357 NOE mold isn't much better. If I put the flat pin in this mold I can turn out good stuff, but I didn't buy it for the solid point.
After adjusting the single cavity Lyman mold it is spot on every time and while slow at least I know I don't waste a bunch after it gets warm. I think I need to look at MP molds and see if they have anything available to order. Or just give up and keep buying pellets, I tend to shoot my 357 more often anyway so maybe this isn't a bad choice.
I haven't touched my 25 in a year, need to get it out and do some tuning to get the speed up for 25 grain pellets. Stock it is tuned for some kind of maximum limit and hopefully I can get a lot more out of it. Wanting 25+ grain at over 800fps, just common pellet weights at 800fps or more for a flatter flight.
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I finally gave this another try... Just not happy, and that's before I measured them. Took great care to try and prevent bending the skirts this time, but the pin alignment keeps changing. Doesn't mater if I close the mold right side up, upside down, or any other direction. I just keep getting pins out of position and skirts with extra fins on them. Using pure lead and this is an aluminum mold, gravity pour so the pressure is pretty low by the time it hits the mold.
Probably going to kick this one down the street and let someone else see if they can make it work. Otherwise what I'm turning out is only good for a Blitz in full auto mode at close range for Youtube destruction.
I have been in your spot before. They can be frustrating. You will either give up or get so frustrated that you'll start over and cover all the basis with a fine tooth comb again and try some different techniques until you get them looking perfect.
With the pins what I do is adjust the brackets so the pins are jammed up to their stops and then back off on the brackets just until I can barely spin the pins freely with my finger while it's laying in the slot. I also make sure the brackets are very centered so there is no resistance fighting and this also allows the two mold halves to close properly, too. I lock the brackets down tight after this making sure the brackets don't move while doing so.
The other thing I did for the flashing issues was to lower the pot temp down to where I can still cast well but no hotter to reduce flashings from too hot of a lead temp. Pressure pouring just adds in another negative factor when it comes to flashing issues. This is why I prefer gravity pouring to eliminate this factor.
Inspect your mold closure and make sure it closes fully and that you keep the alignment pins lubed and in good order. They can be damaged from lack of lube and being slammed closed. It also doesn't take but just a sliver of lead to keep the mold from closing fully so inspect it closely for gremlins as you cast.
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I've been lubing my pins as well, wasn't sure if it was helping, but I figured it can't hurt.
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I measured about 10 - 15 of the roughly 50 I cast... Still not good. About 3 of them had skirts that were around .255, but most were .250. Head size is down to .249 now. Not sure if it's worth continuing with this mold, but there aren't any others in this weight or lighter, pretty much not really any other makers selling 25 cal pellets.
I'll have to check pin depth one more time to make certain they are retracted far enough to give a complete fill. But also growing tired of failure after failure. Every bullet shape I have just works, even the NOE 357 hollow points with similar pin design works better.
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I measured about 10 - 15 of the roughly 50 I cast... Still not good. About 3 of them had skirts that were around .255, but most were .250. Head size is down to .249 now. Not sure if it's worth continuing with this mold, but there aren't any others in this weight or lighter, pretty much not really any other makers selling 25 cal pellets.
I'll have to check pin depth one more time to make certain they are retracted far enough to give a complete fill. But also growing tired of failure after failure. Every bullet shape I have just works, even the NOE 357 hollow points with similar pin design works better.
If you ever want to sell that mold, let me know. My .25 cal Bandit is about .249" on the lands, so that mold would be perfect for me. I should measure some of my "magnum" pellets and try them in my Eagle Claw, which is .250" on the lands.
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Looks like I'll be hanging on to it. My new regulated .25 Stormrider is shooting them well.
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Well, this has turned out to be my favorite .25 mold. It's accurate, hits hard, and the 4 cavity aluminum mold is a joy to cast with. I think I'm getting close to mastering Wayne's pressure pour technique and it doesn't take long to cast a pile of beautiful pellets.
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I did find the pellets I cast with my mold are more accurate than the HN 30 gr pellets in my sentry. I just wish they had a little bit bigger skirt diameter so I could shoot them out of my.25 Sumatra.
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You could size them up with some sort of conflababled whatsit.
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I did find the pellets I cast with my mold are more accurate than the HN 30 gr pellets in my sentry. I just wish they had a little bit bigger skirt diameter so I could shoot them out of my.25 Sumatra.
My Flashpup doesn't like them, but my Bandit carbine and my .25 Stormrider do. It's amazing to hear the smack they make when they hit my steel spinners even at 18 and 22 fpe.
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My nova likes them almost as much as JSB so that makes me very happy.
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You could size them up with some sort of conflababled whatsit.
I just ordered some Eastwood Lime green powder coat. It's a tgic polyester that flows well and coats a little thicker than some others. A couple of applications of it could give a little extra diameter too.
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My nova likes them almost as much as JSB so that makes me very happy.
Accuracy is king and knowing I have guns that shoot them well is all I need.
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My nova likes them almost as much as JSB so that makes me very happy.
Accuracy is king and knowing I have guns that shoot them well is all I need.
For my shooting both JSB and these just get it done. Sure I could fiddle with it but why I'm not target shooting or hunting. Great for my plinking needs as dropped.
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My nova likes them almost as much as JSB so that makes me very happy.
Accuracy is king and knowing I have guns that shoot them well is all I need.
For my shooting both JSB and these just get it done. Sure I could fiddle with it but why I'm not target shooting or hunting. Great for my plinking needs as dropped.
I've got spinners out to 60 yards, empty cans to fill with water, and plenty of squirrels and chipmunks to keep in check. Reactivate targets are a lot more fun than paper.
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I got four squirrels today with the 25 cal Magnum Hunters, 3 reds and a fox, that AEA semi auto just loves them. I'm Tempted to send Darrell some of the 22 cal magnums for him to try out in his Career 2.
They've got really deep skirts and I'll bet they'll shoot good out of his gun, those deep skirts really seal good in the bore, especially a gun that's got some good umph behind it.
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I got four squirrels today with the 25 cal Magnum Hunters, 3 reds and a fox, that AEA semi auto just loves them. I'm Tempted to send Darrell some of the 22 cal magnums for him to try out in his Career 2.
They've got really deep skirts and I'll bet they'll shoot good out of his gun, those deep skirts really seal good in the bore, especially a gun that's got some good umph behind it.
I'm thinking I need to sell my Flashpup and find a more powerful .25 with a smaller bore. The Artemis m16a is sure tempting.
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I got four squirrels today with the 25 cal Magnum Hunters, 3 reds and a fox, that AEA semi auto just loves them. I'm Tempted to send Darrell some of the 22 cal magnums for him to try out in his Career 2.
They've got really deep skirts and I'll bet they'll shoot good out of his gun, those deep skirts really seal good in the bore, especially a gun that's got some good umph behind it.
Wayne, I want to thank you again for the video on your pressure pouring technique. I only rejected one pellet out of my entire casting session today.
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Eddie I shot a crow at 70 yards with a 22 Magnum Hunter (NOE 217-24-RF) in my Airmax Dominator (M16), it's unreal that I was even able to get a shot at him with my orange hat on because I know he seen me.
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Eddie I shot a crow at 70 yards with a 22 Magnum Hunter (NOE 217-24-RF) in my Airmax Dominator (M16), it's unreal that I was even able to get a shot at him with my orange hat on because I know he seen me.
These Artemis barrels really seem to like cast pellets. That's why I'm leaning towards the M16a. Crows are smart for sure, and I like a .17 cal PB when I stalk them. I'm not sure that I've ever taken one with a air rifle.
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My brother shoots crows every chance he gets with his Savage bolt action 17HMR. That gun literally blows stuff up when it hits.
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My brother shoots crows every chance he gets with his Savage bolt action 17HMR. That gun literally blows stuff up when it hits.
Sure does and like a pellet, no pass thru.
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I did find the pellets I cast with my mold are more accurate than the HN 30 gr pellets in my sentry. I just wish they had a little bit bigger skirt diameter so I could shoot them out of my.25 Sumatra.
My .25 eagle claw doesn't seem to like the NOE .25 cal Magnum cast pellets. Maybe I should cast up another batch and try again since the mold lists a .258" OD on the skirts. I just haven't had much time to do any casting lately, but I should have plenty of time after thanksgiving.
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The slugs that I shoot from my Challenger 22 just devastates the squirrels, they tumble when they hit and a heart lung shot will explode they're heart if you hit it. That gun is unreal for an airgun, my ruger 10/22 was never that accurate.
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Maybe I should cast up another batch and try again since the mold lists a .258" OD on the skirts.
The one I have doesn't drop anywhere near that big. If memory serves me it's more like .253.
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The slugs that I shoot from my Challenger 22 just devastates the squirrels, they tumble when they hit and a heart lung shot will explode they're heart if you hit it. That gun is unreal for an airgun, my ruger 10/22 was never that accurate.
You'll have to spend a lot of money to get pcp accuracy out of a rimfire at 75 yards and under from what I've seen.
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I have to size those slugs down to shoot them out of my Liberty because they won't even shoot out of it if I do chamber one, I did that one time trying one over the chrony and I had to get the gun cleaning kit to get it out of there.
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I have to size those slugs down to shoot them out of my Liberty because they won't even shoot out of it if I do chamber one, I did that one time trying one over the chrony and I had to get the gun cleaning kit to get it out of there.
I'm a little surprised at how well my Urban shot 30 grain BBTs considering how hard they were to chamber.
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I did find the pellets I cast with my mold are more accurate than the HN 30 gr pellets in my sentry. I just wish they had a little bit bigger skirt diameter so I could shoot them out of my.25 Sumatra.
My .25 eagle claw doesn't seem to like the NOE .25 cal Magnum cast pellets. Maybe I should cast up another batch and try again since the mold lists a .258" OD on the skirts. I just haven't had much time to do any casting lately, but I should have plenty of time after thanksgiving.
That's the one I originally ordered but got sent the.25 hunter mold instead. Really wish I would've been sent the.25 hunter magnum like I ordered but figured what the hey, I'll use less air with the hunters. As I already said, the
25 hunter won't stay in the magazine of my Sumatra.😡
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I did find the pellets I cast with my mold are more accurate than the HN 30 gr pellets in my sentry. I just wish they had a little bit bigger skirt diameter so I could shoot them out of my.25 Sumatra.
My .25 eagle claw doesn't seem to like the NOE .25 cal Magnum cast pellets. Maybe I should cast up another batch and try again since the mold lists a .258" OD on the skirts. I just haven't had much time to do any casting lately, but I should have plenty of time after thanksgiving.
That's the one I originally ordered but got sent the.25 hunter mold instead. Really wish I would've been sent the.25 hunter magnum like I ordered but figured what the hey, I'll use less air with the hunters. As I already said, the
25 hunter won't stay in the magazine of my Sumatra.😡
I agreed to the 27 grain hunter mold as a swap for the Magnum mold I had problems with. I'm glad I did.
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Maybe I should cast up another batch and try again since the mold lists a .258" OD on the skirts.
The one I have doesn't drop anywhere near that big. If memory serves me it's more like .253.
Interesting. The current drawing for the .25 cal hunter lists .257" OD on the skirt. I did find the pellets I cast with my mold are more accurate than the HN 30 gr pellets in my sentry. I just wish they had a little bit bigger skirt diameter so I could shoot them out of my.25 Sumatra.
My .25 eagle claw doesn't seem to like the NOE .25 cal Magnum cast pellets. Maybe I should cast up another batch and try again since the mold lists a .258" OD on the skirts. I just haven't had much time to do any casting lately, but I should have plenty of time after thanksgiving.
That's the one I originally ordered but got sent the.25 hunter mold instead. Really wish I would've been sent the.25 hunter magnum like I ordered but figured what the hey, I'll use less air with the hunters. As I already said, the
25 hunter won't stay in the magazine of my Sumatra.😡
Which hunter mold do you have? I have a four cav aluminum Magnum mold I would be interested in trading for that Hunter mold.
I also need to get more .25 cal BBTs cast up and see if my Eagle Claw likes them in more favorable shooting conditions. The last time I tried them it was quite windy and accuracy was poor.
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Mine is a 2 cavity but can't remember which material it's made of.
It's aluminum and is set up for 29 grain pellets.
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Eastwood Lime green
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Lookin good Eddie !!!
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Lookin good Eddie !!!
Thanks, Wayne! I might be able to see these in flight now. ;D
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I'm getting really low on the Magnum Hunters maybe I'll cast some up this afternoon. I need more .22 slugs as well.
(https://i.imgur.com/jZJMPl6.png)
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These 27 grain hunters are working great for me and my lower powered guns.
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I need to try these 27 again, last time I still had like a 75% reject rate with small skirts and problems filling out. Dumped all of them back in the pot waiting for another day. I have some new stuff for muzzle loaders I need to cast, so maybe next time I sit down I'll give it a try again. If it doesn't work this time, going to send it off.
I often don't get proper fill with ten pounds of lead in the pot and pressure pour, give me flashing and the mold line, but not proper sized skirts. Really frustrating and either needs to go back, or passed on to someone else. I've been using the largest pin, don't want heavier for the only 25 I have, hard enough getting the power up to 800 fps as is.
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I need to try these 27 again, last time I still had like a 75% reject rate with small skirts and problems filling out. Dumped all of them back in the pot waiting for another day. I have some new stuff for muzzle loaders I need to cast, so maybe next time I sit down I'll give it a try again. If it doesn't work this time, going to send it off.
I often don't get proper fill with ten pounds of lead in the pot and pressure pour, give me flashing and the mold line, but not proper sized skirts. Really frustrating and either needs to go back, or passed on to someone else. I've been using the largest pin, don't want heavier for the only 25 I have, hard enough getting the power up to 800 fps as is.
Too much lead in the pot gives me flashing, too little doesn't fill out properly. There's a balance you have to find. To me, it isn't worth the frustration. This is the best and only way to get the most consistent results. Wayne is the master.
One other thing I've started doing is preheating the pins with a torch. That gets me perfect pellets faster.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=179522.0
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I've been preheating the entire mold on an electric lab heater, results were better, but still not right. I'll clean it one more time, hit it with a little release compound, and try again. But probably the last time.
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Get a Lyman ladle and forgot the bottom pour pot. I fought that battle myself and ended up frustrated. Wayne has it figured out and I wish I had listened sooner.
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After 45 years of casting pure lead projectiles I still use a 4lb Lee lead furnace and the Lyman little dipper that I purchased in the mid 70's. You HAVE to have good pure lead to start
with because airguns definitely work like they're supposed to when using pure lead pellets and slugs. Lead pipe is really good and I highly recommend buying pure lead pig ingots
from Rotometals, you'll never get pure lead cheaper anywhere else, don't believe what people on ebay tell you about lead because 90% of the time the lead you get from them ain't
going to be pure lead. Shipping these days is a big deal too and last that I knew Rotometals was still shipping pig ingots freight free. USPS delivers it too and everytime I got one
all I heard was complaints from them about the weight of the package, today I think the younger gen never really knew the meaning of work when it comes to REAL work.
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My last NOE order I tossed in a few of these pure lead ingots. https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/bullet-casting-reloading/casting-alloys/pure-lead-ingots/
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James since I acquired all that lead pipe I haven't even used my last purchased split pig ingot at all, it's still in the box sealed yet and I've still got a bunch of ingots left to feed my lee furnace for the next casting. After my last reply
in this thread I decided it's time I got some casting done so I cast up a pounds worth of the NOE 218-25-RF slugs, I only had one left in the tin but I'll probably fill it back up for the winter, just started sorting and everyone of them
so far has been right on the money, danged slugs shoot like a million dollars in my AEA .22 Challenger just the way they drop from the mold.
(https://i.imgur.com/sX8fCK6.png)
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I bought 44 pounds of pipe and flashing from a guy on a muzzle loading forum, he checked with a pencil test and scratches to the BHN 5 or softer range. Cost was $100 including USPS shipping. I bet they complain about that box! What's nice is he melts everything to pull out the dirt, then drops it into muffin pans so you get little round ingots of just a little over a pound each. Should be here in the next day or two.
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I ordered 35 pounds from Rotometals shipped via USPS. I was more worried about my mailbox hanging tough. It held up but I am sure the mail carrier had to leave the seat.
I have since acquired 110 pounds of pure sheet lead from an Xray room door. I do reclaim a lot of lead from my rubber mulch bin to recast so should last a while. The .30 and .357 do use up a lot of lead. 155 grains a pop from the .357 Slayer alone.
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I ordered 35 pounds from Rotometals shipped via USPS. I was more worried about my mailbox hanging tough. It held up but I am sure the mail carrier had to leave the seat.
I have since acquired 110 pounds of pure sheet lead from an Xray room door. I do reclaim a lot of lead from my rubber mulch bin to recast so should last a while. The .30 and .357 do use up a lot of lead. 155 grains a pop from the .357 Slayer alone.
I have a mold that takes a pound of lead per 14 bullets. :o
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I ordered 35 pounds from Rotometals shipped via USPS. I was more worried about my mailbox hanging tough. It held up but I am sure the mail carrier had to leave the seat.
I have since acquired 110 pounds of pure sheet lead from an Xray room door. I do reclaim a lot of lead from my rubber mulch bin to recast so should last a while. The .30 and .357 do use up a lot of lead. 155 grains a pop from the .357 Slayer alone.
I have a mold that takes a pound of lead per 14 bullets. :o
My calculator equates that to be 500 grains a pop. That's a lot of air (assuming air). I think .357 is a good cut off point for air. I move onto powder beyond that due to not much reduction in the report beyond that. This at least being the main reason I use air.
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I ordered 35 pounds from Rotometals shipped via USPS. I was more worried about my mailbox hanging tough. It held up but I am sure the mail carrier had to leave the seat.
I have since acquired 110 pounds of pure sheet lead from an Xray room door. I do reclaim a lot of lead from my rubber mulch bin to recast so should last a while. The .30 and .357 do use up a lot of lead. 155 grains a pop from the .357 Slayer alone.
I have a mold that takes a pound of lead per 14 bullets. :o
My calculator equates that to be 500 grains a pop. That's a lot of air (assuming air). I think .357 is a good cut off point for air. I move onto powder beyond that due to not much reduction in the report beyond that. This at least being the main reason I use air.
No air power for this one. ;D
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I have 450 grains for air, as well as a few lighter in the same caliber.
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I did cast up some 25 cal hunter magnums so I'm all set for quite a while for these too.