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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Tim F on June 11, 2021, 01:27:51 AM
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My 25 advenger has a lot of slack in the first stage of the trigger and lot of travel in the second stage. The first stage adjustment screw came set all of the way in, not sure if a longer screw would help, if so does anyone know the size or where I can order one.
I tried to adjust the trigger weight on the second stage but, it didn't make any difference in the amount of travel. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
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If you want a longer one, Ace hardware, take your current one there and they would happily assist..
To secure those, I would use purple/blue loctite or low/medium strength thread fastener of some sort to keep them really snug in their current location through-out the course of the rifles life...
I use blue on most of my fasteners that aren't held on by torque.
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The sear adjustment screw, the one the manual says to leave alone, is 5mmx0.8 and is 10mm long. I put in a 12mm and with it all the way in, I have a tiny bit of creep before it breaks and no slam fires. I bought a 15mm but I haven't tried it, I think it is fine now. I don't always even notice the tiny bit of creep it still has.
The stock screw has a C-clip so you have to remove the trigger group by pushing a little pin out so you can remove the clip to remove the screw. I just put a drop of blue loctite equivalent on the new 12mm screw.
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The sear adjustment screw, the one the manual says to leave alone, is 5mmx0.8 and is 10mm long. I put in a 12mm and with it all the way in, I have a tiny bit of creep before it breaks and no slam fires. I bought a 15mm but I haven't tried it, I think it is fine now. I don't always even notice the tiny bit of creep it still has.
The stock screw has a C-clip so you have to remove the trigger group by pushing a little pin out so you can remove the clip to remove the screw. I just put a drop of blue loctite equivalent on the new 12mm screw.
Did you look at the "travel adjustment" screw too?
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Yes, the travel adjustment screw was turned all the way in from the factory, may have to try and find a longer one to remove the slack. The second stage has a lot travel, may have to do as JimD suggested before it is over. I live.in rural central colorado and the hardware store is limited.
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IIR there was a screw swap mod for the trigger, do not quote me, but it was something like swapping the front adj. screw with the one in question, due to it being longer, than the other screw.
Found it !
https://youtu.be/EpW4EEAB-YI
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Thanks for posting this video. It will save me a lot of time.
I plan to replace the existing screws with Allen headed set screws along with a drop of blue thread locker.
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I own the Nova Liberty and the Avenger.
The above trigger mod with moving one of the screws to an adjacent hole works for the Liberty.
The Avenger trigger already had that screw in the right position, so the mod is noy useful for the Avenger.
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Well I spent a lot of time messing with the trigger, and have changed the screws for 12mm set screws. After trying every combination, I have come to the conclusion that at best it's going to end up a single stage trigger.
All the pull weight adjustment screw is good for is to prevent the trigger from flopping around prior to cocking the rifle. The real pull weight is a combination of the sear spring and a lot of friction and travel between the sear and the hammer.
I ended up with the 12mm sear screw turned in almost flush, and screwed the 12mm travel screw (in front of the trigger) in until the rifle fired. Then I backed it out about ⅓ turn. Prior to this the trigger was breaking at about 3 lbs with gobs of travel. After making these changes, it breaks crisply at about 19 oz with very little travel, and it will not fire when slamming the butt on the bench.
If I knew I could remove the sear and spring without a ton of work, I would polish it, and use a lighter weight spring. That should make a big improvement, and allow the existing trigger weight screw to actually do something.
If anyone has any ideas, I am all ears.
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Well I spent a lot of time messing with the trigger, and have changed the screws for 12mm set screws. After trying every combination, I have come to the conclusion that at best it's going to end up a single stage trigger.
All the pull weight adjustment screw is good for is to prevent the trigger from flopping around prior to cocking the rifle. The real pull weight is a combination of the sear spring and a lot of friction and travel between the sear and the hammer.
I ended up with the 12mm sear screw turned in almost flush, and screwed the 12mm travel screw (in front of the trigger) in until the rifle fired. Then I backed it out about ⅓ turn. Prior to this the trigger was breaking at about 3 lbs with gobs of travel. After making these changes, it breaks crisply at about 19 oz with very little travel, and it will not fire when slamming the butt on the bench.
If I knew I could remove the sear and spring without a ton of work, I would polish it, and use a lighter weight spring. That should make a big improvement, and allow the existing trigger weight screw to actually do something.
If anyone has any ideas, I am all ears.
My experience with the Avenger and Aspen's trigger jives with this. As a side note, 40 years as a machinist has given me plenty of respect for LocTite, great stuff and I've used many different types of it but for light duty and fine threaded application's you can do just fine with plain old clear women's nail polish. Just degrease the threads with a little rubbing alcohol, let it evaporate (you can blow it off with a short blast or two of canned air like "Clean Safe, Dust Remover") and a drop or two of clear coat nail polish or "Hard as Nails" and you're Golden. You can get it just about any where and a small bottle will likely last you for life.
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One more for nail polish for a thread lock,been using for 40 years on scope mounts etc.
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A stripe of bright red nail polish on the outside is also useful to detect if a fastener has become loose or a device has moved.
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I have a Origin which is similar to the Avenger trigger. I have been trying to lighten the pull on it also. The screw that's suppose to lighten in seems to do next to nothing. The manual says to turn the screw out to lighten the pull. I have turned it out two full turns and all it did was increase the pull travel. The travel screw in tightened in all the way. I tried going in two turns from factory setting with trigger screw but still could tell no difference. I don't have a gauge to measure trigger pull so just going by feel. Ready to adjust back to factory setting and give up at this point.
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I messed with the other trigger adjustments after changing to a 12mm long sear screw as I mentioned earlier. My trigger is not a very crisp single stage trigger and light enough for me. I have no trigger gauge but I have used my fishing scale to get an idea but I haven't because it feels fine to me. I don't object to a two stage trigger but would really rather have a single stage. I see no advantage of a two stage so I like my Avenger trigger.
I also purchased a P35, a bullpup, and tried to remove it's first stage but I cannot without defeating the safety. It is a trigger block and if I take out the first stage I put the trigger at a point where the safety cannot engage. So it has a first stage. I also put in a longer sear adjustment screw on this gun. I could get it to the point I wanted it without putting in a longer screw but this gun also has a lock nut on the sear screw and I could not use it without a longer screw. I like the lock nut so I put in a longer screw. So I have a very light first stage followed by a pretty light and quite crisp second stage.
I don't own any high end PCPs but for my under $500 ones, the only trigger which was good out of the box is the Prod. It is a two stage but the first stage is very light and the second stage is pretty light and crisp so I haven't even tried adjusting it. There are instructions in the manual but I don't know if they work. The Avenger manual has a nice section on the trigger but the adjustment screws do nothing unless you mess with the sear screw which they tell you not to do. The P35 manual says almost nothing about anything and certainly doesn't tell you how to adjust the trigger. But if you remove the stock there is only one screw on the trigger mechanism so it's pretty obvious what you need to do.
This is speculative but I think that the reason our fairly inexpensive guns have heavy triggers is the manufacturer is trying to eliminate the chance of lawsuits stating "I did not pull the trigger, the gun just went off on its own". I am confident that did not happen to the single action revolver in the news but it is possible on my PCPs if the sear screw is set to only barely engage the hammer. It has not happened to me and I bang the butt on the floor after I do my adjustments (with an unloaded gun) to try and make sure I have not gone too far. I did have to go back and readjust the P35 trigger after some use, however, because it would not cock. I think the trigger wore in a little and that sort of possibility is another reason for the manufacturer to set it more conservatively. I never had an issue with the gun going off but there could have been a point with the wear in where that was a possibility. I don't take the safety off until the gun is pointed at the target so it shouldn't have an effect greater than a miss. My guns are normally not loaded or cocked.
So in my experience if you want a 1-2 lb trigger you should plan to adjust the sear engagement screw and you may not get any help from the manufacturer for that. I can speculate why but that doesn't matter, you probably will not have it. I did these things on powder burners for about 5 decades before starting on PCPs so I am not afraid of doing it and have had no experiences which make me afraid of it. I polished these parts on some of my powder burners but have not found that necessary on a PCP yet. I think that is riskier. If you remove too much metal there is no going back other than getting some new parts. Turning or replacing screws only risks the gun going off on it's own and there is a very, very small range of adjustment where this is possible. With too little sear engagement the gun just won't cock. It's better to have a little extra, however, than not enough. I am not suggesting that other people do what I do, just stating what my experience is. You will have to decide what you are comfortable with.
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I just finished reading Jim d , just ahead of this post. He mentioned polishing and maybe removing to much metal. I just want to caution here that in my book , polishing is not remove ing metal . You more or less are just taking down the flash,not reshaping, as most of these parts are cast. I say never, cause when you change an angle or remove metal to, you change the whole geometery of the trigger. Most times ,actually for the worse. It might pull lighter but, not be totally safe.