GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: John4861 on May 23, 2021, 04:08:28 PM
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WARNING This post contains mention of graphic TV violence and the use of alcohol. Don't read if you are a snowflake or not capable of taking a joke!
Howdy,
Just got my PCP hand pump in the mail. The instructions were copied and reprinted so may times and the fonts were so fuzzy, much of what was written was not easily deciphered by this aging airgunner. Looking to assemble said pump was fairly straight forward and was actually accomplished by just looking at the parts and seeing where they'd fit (just like when the wife wants me assemble something from IKEA). It worked, I had the pump operational in a few minutes, but with no gun all I could do was pressurize the hose, so I guess it's all good since it pumped up and the bleed off screw hissed when released. However, I had air bubbles in the high pressure gauge, and did not know if that was okay and found no answers readily available. Not being the most patient man on the planet I did what anybody sane would do, have a few cocktails and watched Netflix. A few hours of senseless decimation, revenge, and charred mangled corpses provided the restful nights sleep I must have needed.
A NEW DAY DAWNS. Got on YouTube this morning and began to look about. Found video after video of the owners seemingly guessing (they should have tried praying) what to do when their hand pumps quit pumping (its amazing an American man can do in 50+ minutes what a skilled Chinese person can do in 12, but I digress). Their on screen demeanors seemed to do little to boost my dwindling hope that they had viable answers for my question (perhaps it was that deer in the headlight stare). Finally though, after much clicking, I turned a corner into the deep blue South Pacific ocean. Found a guy in Bali who answered both my questions in a 2 minute video; go figure.
The dude from Bali's video led to the manufacturer of the hand pumps that everybody else seems to offer (and I mean no matter the price, they all come from here, or so it seems), plus they make what we call the Yong Heng's and certain other PCP compressors you may recognize, as well. I see some expensive brands come from this factory and are simply rebranded, even the shipping boxes get re-badged. What a hoot, its like Toto showing behind the curtain in OZ. A link to their catalog follows (they seemingly do it all):
https://pcp86.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/topa-pcp-catalog.pdf
The catalog does not really help as I think they are only selling container loads of their products. Too bad we do not have pricing, I'm curious mostly. The compressors that run off a cars battery look quite useful for range outings. I guess it's just that I figured Yong Heng was the main maker of that PCP compressor and then I find that it's just another badge; now who owns Topa? I'm afraid to look.
If you just want to see the pump repair videos from the maker, try this link for part one: https://youtu.be/0DkvvRaGPdg and part two: https://youtu.be/14qlMdTtk70
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Thanks, I'll follow the thread since I think sooner or later I'll step into the dark side (do they really have cookies there?)
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Thanks, I'll follow the thread since I think sooner or later I'll step into the dark side (do they really have cookies there?)
You betcha, not sure of every ingredient though...
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I bought one of those Chinese hand pumps back when they were $50. Not sure what they cost now, but they are FAR better than the Benjamin units. I had one of those first. Those Chinese pumps were the best bargain in air gunning. I bought one for my 13 year old (at the time) son to use with his Gamo Urban. I later stepped up to a Shoebox and tank... and haven't hand pumped since.
Hand pumps are fine to get started with in a beginner gun, but are best if you can limit yourself to a .177 or .22 max. Hand pumps will only frustrate you if you try and use them for a .25 and/or if you plan on doing any tuning.
.25 and bigger guns go through a LOT of air. Tuning goes through a LOT of air and pellets.
Welcome to the Dark Side!
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As a point of comedy , can anyone here remember when the water was discovered inside of our air pump. I can , and funny thing , the sky still has not fallen, nor have I heard of rusted out air rifles. Life has its moments
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I bought one of those Chinese hand pumps back when they were $50. Not sure what they cost now, but they are FAR better than the Benjamin units. I had one of those first. Those Chinese pumps were the best bargain in air gunning. I bought one for my 13 year old (at the time) son to use with his Gamo Urban. I later stepped up to a Shoebox and tank... and haven't hand pumped since.
Hand pumps are fine to get started with in a beginner gun, but are best if you can limit yourself to a .177 or .22 max. Hand pumps will only frustrate you if you try and use them for a .25 and/or if you plan on doing any tuning.
.25 and bigger guns go through a LOT of air. Tuning goes through a LOT of air and pellets.
Welcome to the Dark Side!
Mine cost me $51 delivered with tax included, got it in less than a week too. I expected junk, but its like stainless steel and brass, with a lot of rubber O-Rings added just for fun. The quality is surprising even if the seller speaks in chicken scratching and can't read your questions. The hand pump has only one purpose really. a little exercise for now (I'm deciding on a first PCP as I type). Then again, someday the grid may go down for more than a week or so, I guess it might seem like a good idea then; either way, it can't hurt.
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Pumps are good exercise ;D
I still have an extra one that is unopened.
They were on sale a while back for $27 shipped, so I got another one as spare.
My main pump is the more expensive GX, which retails for about $160.
You know, there is a MROD .22 for sale right now by Dairyboy for $250 something.
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A GX for $160? I’d jump on that!! Please link!
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Sorry couldn’t make it through the entire post. Much too long for my attention span. I got that you were worried about repairing it before you even used it? I will link a better fix video. My Chinese pump has a slight leak. I know exactly what oring it is but it still works s whatever. If I get 6 mos out of it I may just trash it and buy another for 47 bucks. I mean I guess you could buy a hill or something but I will buy 3 more Chinese pumps. Here is a better video other than you have to take a grown man calling his 12 year old SON honey. I died a little each time he did. https://youtu.be/_R2aiKOQDuo
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Pumps are good exercise ;D
I still have an extra one that is unopened.
They were on sale a while back for $27 shipped, so I got another one as spare.
My main pump is the more expensive GX, which retails for about $160.
You know, there is a MROD .22 for sale right now by Dairyboy for $250 something.
Yeah, I remember the sale someplace, but was not thinking about a PCP at the time.
$250 sounds very good, maybe I'll kick a tire...
Sorry couldn’t make it through the entire post. Much too long for my attention span. I got that you were worried about repairing it before you even used it? I will link a better fix video. My Chinese pump has a slight leak. I know exactly what oring it is but it still works s whatever. If I get 6 mos out of it I may just trash it and buy another for 47 bucks. I mean I guess you could buy a hill or something but I will buy 3 more Chinese pumps. Here is a better video other than you have to take a grown man calling his 12 year old SON honey. I died a little each time he did. https://youtu.be/_R2aiKOQDuo
Funny, that was the 50 minute video I referenced. But you must have skipped that part. I did not have the stamina to watch these two all the way through, sort of like getting a root canal. The honey thing was too WOKE for me. My pump arrived open and I saw something that concerned me and no usable answers came from the vendor. So my quest began, and here we are. All is well now.
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Pumps are good exercise ;D
I still have an extra one that is unopened.
They were on sale a while back for $27 shipped, so I got another one as spare.
My main pump is the more expensive GX, which retails for about $160.
You know, there is a MROD .22 for sale right now by Dairyboy for $250 something.
Yeah, I remember the sale someplace, but was not thinking about a PCP at the time.
$250 sounds very good, maybe I'll kick a tire...
Sorry couldn’t make it through the entire post. Much too long for my attention span. I got that you were worried about repairing it before you even used it? I will link a better fix video. My Chinese pump has a slight leak. I know exactly what oring it is but it still works s whatever. If I get 6 mos out of it I may just trash it and buy another for 47 bucks. I mean I guess you could buy a hill or something but I will buy 3 more Chinese pumps. Here is a better video other than you have to take a grown man calling his 12 year old SON honey. I died a little each time he did. https://youtu.be/_R2aiKOQDuo
Funny, that was the 50 minute video I referenced. But you must have skipped that part. I did not have the stamina to watch these two all the way through, sort of like getting a root canal. The honey thing was too WOKE for me. My pump arrived open and I saw something that concerned me and no usable answers came from the vendor. So my quest began, and here we are. All is well now.
Yeah it is long but actually pretty informative. My pump says it comes with a one year warranty and return to manufacturer for any defects. However, nowhere in the box manual or anything is there a single stitch of information about said manufacturer. Not to sure what good that warranty is but then again I pretty much consider it a throw away item.
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A $50 pump would be disposable if you get to use it for six months to a year, I don't really know but I've been considering buying one. Any chance you gents can post a link where I could buy said pump?
Thank you,
Ted
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A $50 pump would be disposable if you get to use it for six months to a year, I don't really know but I've been considering buying one. Any chance you gents can post a link where I could buy said pump?
Thank you,
Ted
They are out where I got mine, but this one looks identical: Ebay Item 283050929770
The airgunner dude who turned me onto this pump has been using his for about three years and just changed a couple of O-Rings and did a deep cleaning recently, it still works.
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A $50 pump would be disposable if you get to use it for six months to a year, I don't really know but I've been considering buying one. Any chance you gents can post a link where I could buy said pump?
Thank you,
Ted
There are ones for 44 bucks on eBay that are exactly the same thing I have. Mine does work well. It has a small leak that is a simple oring. Still works decently so I haven’t torn it apart. If you get one just watch the ring at the bottom of the outer tube. That ring makes contact with the bottom of the pump on the down stroke. This can cause that ring to loosen. What happened to mine. There is an o ring in that ring that got cut on the threads when it loosened. Make sure that stays tight. Pretty easy to fill both my urban and chief to 2800 to 3000 psi.
I actually wonder if the hill pump is actually better? Worth 200 dollars??
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A GX for $160? I’d jump on that!! Please link!
A GX hand pump, not a GX compressor, sir ;D
It is robust and very smooth.
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A pressure gauge works via a spiraled flattened tube that straightens slightly as pressure is induced. That coupled to the hand gives you a picture of the pressure in the tube.
For a compressor tank where pressure works slowly all is peachy. But for a handpump or directly in the outlet of a HP compressor the pressure changes from 0 to 3000+psi so rapidly that the hand will vibrate fast. The result is that the brass spiraled flattened tube will develop metal fatique and rupture.
To avoid this the intire pressure gauge is filled with glycerine or silicone oil to dampen the shocks from the pump or compressor.
What i'm trying to say is: There's no need for the scale part of the pressure gauge to be liquid filled for it to work as intended. Airbubbles are ok and not a problem as long as the bottom part remains filled with damping fluid.
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Had an old FX (Veripump? Versapump?)...one of the early pumps. Worked great for years, until it went over board and got a long salt water soaking.
Bought a Hills pump. Would work great, then need a resealing about every year to year and a half. Current Hills are different models.
Tried a China made pump when ordering a FDPCP...so it’s been quite a few years. Figured it couldn’t last, so used it exclusively to see how long it took until it died.
Original Chinese pump still working…..bought a second, it is also still working.
Hills pump died from neglect and have no intention of fixing it.
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A pressure gauge works via a spiraled flattened tube that straightens slightly as pressure is induced. That coupled to the hand gives you a picture of the pressure in the tube.
For a compressor tank where pressure works slowly all is peachy. But for a handpump or directly in the outlet of a HP compressor the pressure changes from 0 to 3000+psi so rapidly that the hand will vibrate fast. The result is that the brass spiraled flattened tube will develop metal fatique and rupture.
To avoid this the intire pressure gauge is filled with glycerine or silicone oil to dampen the shocks from the pump or compressor.
What i'm trying to say is: There's no need for the scale part of the pressure gauge to be liquid filled for it to work as intended. Airbubbles are ok and not a problem as long as the bottom part remains filled with damping fluid.
I'm really glad you explained this.
When I got my 6000 psi Chinese pump, I thought something was wrong, because the gauge was HALF-filled with liquid. I figured it should either be clean or completely filled. The seller had no idea. Of course the pump worked fine, but I thought it was leaking silicone oil.
Whew.... (thx)
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Its the beauty of the global economy and an ever present language barrier; they don't know why we don't know what they know, and then we don't understand what it is they are trying to teach us when they send instruction written by somebody who has no clue how to use the translation software. Clear as mud. Good thing the pumps are better built than any of us ever thought possible.
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Just information….can debate it, just what I’ve found.
Two things kill pumps early: friction and heat build up. Can’t easily do much about the internal fit/finish (friction), but we can control heat by pumping slower/taking breaks.
Being mechanical, they will all will need repairs sooner or later….assume we’re looking for later.
The real work is in the down stroke, especially getting that last inch of down travel.
That’s where the air transfer from pump to gun happens.
Air only flows from high pressure to low...so the more air already pumped into the rifle, the higher the pressure the pump has to create to get more air into the rifle, and the harder it is to get that last 1” of down stroke where the real work is done.
Fat people have it easier than skinny people. At some point, can be locked arm body weight doing that last bit of pump travel. Not so much if you’re skinny.
Pumping is boring and takes patience.
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Its the beauty of the global economy and an ever present language barrier; they don't know why we don't know what they know, and then we don't understand what it is they are trying to teach us when they send instruction written by somebody who has no clue how to use the translation software. Clear as mud. Good thing the pumps are better built than any of us ever thought possible.
Lol.
So true.
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Just information….can debate it, just what I’ve found.
Two things kill pumps early: friction and heat build up. Can’t easily do much about the internal fit/finish (friction), but we can control heat by pumping slower/taking breaks.
Supposedly you're supposed to occasionally add silicon oil to the shaft, when the handle is all the way up. That then gets in to all the internals and prolongs life.
Fat people have it easier than skinny people. At some point, can be locked arm body weight doing that last bit of pump travel. Not so much if you’re skinny.
I usually strap on a small backpack filled with books, before pumping. It helps a little, though I find most of the work is still done with my arms.
Also, in case anyone doesn't know, it's supposedly best to pump with your lever / bolt in the cocked position. (For better air flow, I guess.) I'm not 100% sure that really matters, but why not just do it that way .....
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Fat people have it easier than skinny people. At some point, can be locked arm body weight doing that last bit of pump travel. Not so much if you’re skinny.
Finally, I've been given a purpose in life! Finally I have the proper 'background' required to fulfill that purpose. I'm in awe! As part of the last two groups where its still okay to use pejoratives or disparaging adjectives in conjunction with physical descriptions (I mean they took all the other fun ones away from us, right?), its favorable for others that all corpulent folks are always jolly, and have a gentle nature as regards such trifles. It's all in fun, and I hope this is taken that way. I was just bored when reading this reply. The choice of words made me chuckle; I needed a bit of literary exercise to limber up the gray matter for coming debates, and here we are.
I've been wondering, to perhaps aid the less fortunate, you know, those with lesser girth about their personage, would it be feasible to replace the pump handles with a seat? Inquiring minds want to know. Sounds logical, put what little they have to maximum usage.
I just throw this out there to help my fellow compressed air users. As in all things, I think having a thicker skin also aids one in pumping. LOL
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No direct offence to any one...personally on the skinny side, but pump filled for years. 5'11" 165lbs can certainly do it (although I've shrunk about 1/2 inch and the weight shifted around a bit).
At least there is a "prize" at the end of pump filling.....not like running on a belt or sweating on a bike that goes no where.
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Hmm I see it now the bicycle seat on top of a pump, and a chin up bar to get the air to draw in. I have heard some compressors have smelly air, this may also be an issue here ::)
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Hmm I see it now the bicycle seat on top of a pump, and a chin up bar to get the air to draw in. I have heard some compressors have smelly air, this may also be an issue here ::)
I like it!
How about constructing a see-saw, with one pump under each seat, and the outputs ganged with a Y fitting?
The kids could have fun all day, while pumping up your 4600psi SCBA tank. :D
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No direct offence to any one...personally on the skinny side, but pump filled for years. 5'11" 165lbs can certainly do it (although I've shrunk about 1/2 inch and the weight shifted around a bit).
At least there is a "prize" at the end of pump filling.....not like running on a belt or sweating on a bike that goes no where.
I pumped a bottle gun once, and that was the 1st and the last time for me ;D
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I haven’t bought a pcp yet, but I have been doing a lot of lurking.
At 5’6” 125#, I find this thread very discouraging. But I have seen shots of various apparatus created as pumping aids.
I really want a new Marauder F&T with the Turkwalnut. But I won’t be able to buy a compressor too.
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I haven’t bought a pcp yet, but I have been doing a lot of lurking.
At 5’6” 125#, I find this thread very discouraging. But I have seen shots of various apparatus created as pumping aids.
I really want a new Marauder F&T with the Turkwalnut. But I won’t be able to buy a compressor too.
I hear you, I'm old, my ticker is not great, so what does not kill me will hopefully improve me. Like the Mrs just said, go ahead, your insurance is all paid up. I will try the pump when my first PCP shows up in a few days. If its that bad, I'll go buy a compressor in a month or so, the Chinese ones are not too costly. I plan on one if I'm around long enough anyway, but first comes glass.
Check the map, maybe others near you might have some ideas, or even help you out a bit with a fill up, then use the pump to keep it topped off; much less work I think.
John
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Hmm I see it now the bicycle seat on top of a pump, and a chin up bar to get the air to draw in. I have heard some compressors have smelly air, this may also be an issue here ::)
YES! Pull up bar, what about the weight pull down systems I see at 3am on TV? If it were balanced to the weight of the user, it might just become an effortless process? Maybe check out the back episodes of The Red Green Show and see if any ideas are lurking there!
I wonder, now where are those scientists I keep hearing about? They seems to know everything about anything these days (well except which bathrooms to use maybe). They should be able to design something combining all these idea and make a perpetual motion air pump.
John
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I haven’t bought a pcp yet, but I have been doing a lot of lurking.
At 5’6” 125#, I find this thread very discouraging. But I have seen shots of various apparatus created as pumping aids.
I really want a new Marauder F&T with the Turkwalnut. But I won’t be able to buy a compressor too.
I hear you, I'm old, my ticker is not great, so what does not kill me will hopefully improve me. Like the Mrs just said, go ahead, your insurance is all paid up. I will try the pump when my first PCP shows up in a few days. If its that bad, I'll go buy a compressor in a month or so, the Chinese ones are not too costly. I plan on one if I'm around long enough anyway, but first comes glass.
Check the map, maybe others near you might have some ideas, or even help you out a bit with a fill up, then use the pump to keep it topped off; much less work I think.
John
Mr. John, I have a Filipino friend who resembles you ;D
He is the bearded guy in the middle (I am the bald one ;D):
(https://i.imgur.com/LYtq6jG.jpg)
OT: We had wild pigeon, wild boar meat, python, and other exotic finger foods in this photo ;D
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Mr. John, I have a Filipino friend who resembles you ;D
He is the bearded guy in the middle (I am the bald one ;D):
(https://i.imgur.com/LYtq6jG.jpg)
OT: We had wild pigeon, wild boar meat, python, and other exotic finger foods in this photo ;D
Nice, I feel sorry for your friend if he looks like me! I used to run with a few Filipino dudes, we were pretty tight for a while, but eventually they all went back home and we lost touch. They were all great fun and good shots (and their women sure could cook), so that was very good for me, we all loved guns and the out of doors action. I miss those days. Python in New Mexico? Or was that taken back home? I've seen some constrictors there, lots of rattlers too, the butter corn snake looks like a Golden Burmese but way smaller, I saw the butter corn variety even here in California. I usually won't eat a snake that does good things where I live, if they kill rats and gophers, they are my buddy.
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Hmm I see it now the bicycle seat on top of a pump, and a chin up bar to get the air to draw in. I have heard some compressors have smelly air, this may also be an issue here ::)
YES! Pull up bar, what about the weight pull down systems I see at 3am on TV? If it were balanced to the weight of the user, it might just become an effortless process? Maybe check out the back episodes of The Red Green Show and see if any ideas are lurking there!
I wonder, now where are those scientists I keep hearing about? They seems to know everything about anything these days (well except which bathrooms to use maybe). They should be able to design something combining all these idea and make a perpetual motion air pump.
John
HA HaHa I was searching Red Greens Handyman Corner but came up with everything but ???
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Mr. John, I have a Filipino friend who resembles you ;D
He is the bearded guy in the middle (I am the bald one ;D):
(https://i.imgur.com/LYtq6jG.jpg)
OT: We had wild pigeon, wild boar meat, python, and other exotic finger foods in this photo ;D
Nice, I feel sorry for your friend if he looks like me! I used to run with a few Filipino dudes, we were pretty tight for a while, but eventually they all went back home and we lost touch. They were all great fun and good shots (and their women sure could cook), so that was very good for me, we all loved guns and the out of doors action. I miss those days. Python in New Mexico? Or was that taken back home? I've seen some constrictors there, lots of rattlers too, the butter corn snake looks like a Golden Burmese but way smaller, I saw the butter corn variety even here in California. I usually won't eat a snake that does good things where I live, if they kill rats and gophers, they are my buddy.
Photo taken in the PI, and about 2 months before I flew in to the USA, Mr. John ;D
His name is Leo, an amiable guy and very down to earth--a very decent shot, too, but with less than stellar equipment, sadly
These guys are all into airguns, but the rightmost one (sitting down) does not compete and is more of a hunter.
I gave 2 of these guys scopes for their toys, and when there is a competition I would send them money to buy JSB pellets ;D
Oh, the one wearing sunglasses is a killer in offhand shooting ;D
Reminiscing, the AG club (before I became a member) would be so furious at me, as I would purchase all the JSB/FX pellets from the sole gunstore selling them in my city; other sellers are from another city, thus requiring shipping ;D
Only a handful of airgun enthusiasts are able to afford them--even a single tin of high end pellets is very expensive in the PI ::)
I might go home next year for a vacation ;D
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<snip> --even a single tin of high end pellets is very expensive in the PI ::)
I might go home next year for a vacation ;D
I used to help my friend's family, they were sort of impacted by Mt Pinatubo at one point, and had lost employment as a result IIRC. Any way, I and the family over here sent some cash and food. I think the company was LBC. Are they (LBC) still around? You might send pellets from here via that route. I sent a case of canned hams (10) and about $60 US and you'd have thought I sent a million bucks the way they acted. Then my friends wife said that was almost like a half a years pay at the time. I was shocked.
That was in another life.
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Just information….can debate it, just what I’ve found.
Two things kill pumps early: friction and heat build up. Can’t easily do much about the internal fit/finish (friction), but we can control heat by pumping slower/taking breaks.
Supposedly you're supposed to occasionally add silicon oil to the shaft, when the handle is all the way up. That then gets in to all the internals and prolongs life.
Fat people have it easier than skinny people. At some point, can be locked arm body weight doing that last bit of pump travel. Not so much if you’re skinny.
I usually strap on a small backpack filled with books, before pumping. It helps a little, though I find most of the work is still done with my arms.
Also, in case anyone doesn't know, it's supposedly best to pump with your lever / bolt in the cocked position. (For better air flow, I guess.) I'm not 100% sure that really matters, but why not just do it that way .....
It is sometimes necessary to cock the rifle/pistol before filling from empty... this is because of preload on the hammer spring which causes it to push on the poppet shaft holding the poppet open... once filled it is not nessasary because the pressure in the tank holds the poppet closed...
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No direct offence to any one...personally on the skinny side, but pump filled for years. 5'11" 165lbs can certainly do it (although I've shrunk about 1/2 inch and the weight shifted around a bit).
At least there is a "prize" at the end of pump filling.....not like running on a belt or sweating on a bike that goes no where.
I pumped a bottle gun once, and that was the 1st and the last time for me ;D
I can only imagine. I just pumped my avenger from zero (bled all air out to drop reg pressure) and it sucked more than I expected. Lol. Used to only pumping guns from 2k to 3k. I only pumped the avenger to 3k but it still sucked.
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It is sometimes necessary to cock the rifle/pistol before filling from empty... this is because of preload on the hammer spring which causes it to push on the poppet shaft holding the poppet open... once filled it is not nessasary because the pressure in the tank holds the poppet closed...[/i]
Ah, that makes sense. I always wondered what the reason was, since air still passes by the probe when closed.
This also explains why I've never had a problem hand-pumping from completely empty, even though several experts say this can cause a "permanent" problem with filling.
- Thanks!
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Once you start tuning guns that need to be degassed , id when you need more than a hand pump. ;)
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Just tuned 3-4 ninja regs for a gauntlet and prod bottle build. Used the 13ci bottle to hand pump my regs up for testing then put the reg on a larger 15ci bottle. Lots of pumping over a few days. Keeps you young I guess.
Trick is to pump while watching tv or a movie.
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No one wants to hand pump from empty….it’s why we hate leaks and won’t go inside a working PCP unless we have to.
Do have time to think while you are pumping...and wondering what the *(&^ is going on when you have to pump fill from empty.
Might be wrong in some assumptions….but go ahead and think about it while you are pump filling.
Basically three pumps inside each other...like Russian nesting dolls. Stage 1 feeds stage 2 which feeds stage 3 (are some 4 stage pumps)...last stage is what feeds the rifle.
Stage 3 is tiny….not a whole lot of volume there.
Pump itself is a pressure vessel….it retains the pressure that’s lower than what is already in the rifle for use in the next pump stroke.
Check valves work on pressure difference...locking off high from low. Are two check valves in play, one in the rifle’s fill port/nipple and one at the end of the 3rd stage inside the pump.
When we start pumping from empty, those checks are open until we crate the pressure difference to close them. Until they are really sealed, there is some back flow.
Like 3 phases when starting from empty (it’s a bit like running track):
1. Starting: pump our azz off just to get up to speed.
2. Middle run: everything going to plan...pumping is pretty easy, gauges rises as expected, feels like progress.
3. Finish line: It gets progressively stiffer to pump. Only able to inject air that’s higher than what is already in the rifle, pumps strokes get stiffer (the working against the retained pressure in the pump) but only inject the pressure that's higher than what's already in the rifle.
Is a point where the effort to hand pump to higher pressure just isn’t worth it. Even with a great pump, few avenger shooters hand pump fill to it’s 4350psi max.
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I weigh 145 lbs wet
I was in severe car accidents that destroyed my spinal columns integrity at a very young age (not the driver)....
I have heart arrhythmia, rbbb.
I smoke and am way out of shape...
I still don't mind hand pumping from empty, or to 4000 psi...
I also don't sit around bored, tuning, filling, emptying my gun on paper day in and day out. Its a tool, I make sure the tool works properly from time to time, and other times I use the tool...
Those who shoot paper and or tune / plink a lot, or have comorbidities that limit their ability to pump, should absolutely consider an air compressor.
Add a second bleeve valve into the line for when pumping from empty, get your line up to 1500+ psi, then bleed it into the gun...walla no more "fill from empty problems"
Ya see, many people often are able to find problems, very few of those people have mind enough to solve them without completely trashing the original idea... ;)
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I just recently used my home 125 psi compressor to get my freshly ported Maximus to seal and then hand pumped...
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No one wants to hand pump from empty….it’s why we hate leaks and won’t go inside a working PCP unless we have to.
Do have time to think while you are pumping...and wondering what the *(&^ is going on when you have to pump fill from empty.
Might be wrong in some assumptions….but go ahead and think about it while you are pump filling.
Basically three pumps inside each other...like Russian nesting dolls. Stage 1 feeds stage 2 which feeds stage 3 (are some 4 stage pumps)...last stage is what feeds the rifle.
Stage 3 is tiny….not a whole lot of volume there.
Pump itself is a pressure vessel….it retains the pressure that’s lower than what is already in the rifle for use in the next pump stroke.
Check valves work on pressure difference...locking off high from low. Are two check valves in play, one in the rifle’s fill port/nipple and one at the end of the 3rd stage inside the pump.
When we start pumping from empty, those checks are open until we crate the pressure difference to close them. Until they are really sealed, there is some back flow.
Like 3 phases when starting from empty (it’s a bit like running track):
1. Starting: pump our azz off just to get up to speed.
2. Middle run: everything going to plan...pumping is pretty easy, gauges rises as expected, feels like progress.
3. Finish line: It gets progressively stiffer to pump. Only able to inject air that’s higher than what is already in the rifle, pumps strokes get stiffer (the working against the retained pressure in the pump) but only inject the pressure that's higher than what's already in the rifle.
Is a point where the effort to hand pump to higher pressure just isn’t worth it. Even with a great pump, few avenger shooters hand pump fill to it’s 4350psi max.
This is for sure. I just did this on my new avenger as the dummies set the reg to 2900 from the factory a setting no one will run. I say why? Why not set it low from the factory so we can work up to where we want. It was tragic and a PIA to purge 4K worth of air and pump it back up from empty. LOL.
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This is for sure. I just did this on my new avenger as the dummies set the reg to 2900 from the factory a setting no one will run. I say why? Why not set it low from the factory so we can work up to where we want. It was tragic and a PIA to purge 4K worth of air and pump it back up from empty. LOL.
You're a better man than me, I started pumping my Hatsan Flash from empty and realized I'd not used a hand pump in maybe 50 years. I took things easy though and was doing pretty good. The gauge on the gun was on the line between yellow and green and the bottom seal of the outer casing tube let go with a tiny hiss; tightening it did not help. Changing it only wasted two more o-rings. I think the casing may not be exactly right. Fortunately the vendor has already mailed a replacement; so at least now I can test to see if the new PCP can hold any air at all. I hope so, as its my first adventure into PCP's and first impressions matter. 8)