GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: Dan762 on May 11, 2021, 10:40:23 PM
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Why exactly has Diana dropped the 350 N-Tec Premium Magnum from it's line. Just wondering. Beautiful gun and from everything I have read it was quality. Does anyone know why it was dropped ?
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My guess is it's one of two things - Sales numbers or Reliability.
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Don't know why it was dropped; but pretty sure it wasn't because of problems with the N-Tec gas ram; as they are using the same units in the new 34 EMS linup... Good info here; mixed in with the comments:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=185499.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=185499.0)
Jesse
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Because the EMS platform makes the N-Tec line redundant.
The gas ram in my 3-4 year old gun still works perfectly!
-Y
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Starting from Kormendy YT reviews on up, the 350 Mag Ntecs have a reputation of basically shedding their stock screws in use. Many people who got those guns were stunned that a German company would release such untested items. It must've cost the company a bundle, after release.
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Compare the N-tec specs to a standard 350. Cocking effort on the gas piston is supposed to be "challenging". I can tell you my 340 takes noticeably more effort than do my 34's. If it is the same for the 350 N-tec, it might be the piston is just a little too much on that gun. I'm not familiar with stock screws coming out. Is it a matter of broken welds making the bases fail, or just the guns rattle more?
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You might want to check YT reviews and comments on the gun in question. Kormendy and many others experiended that brand new 350 Mag Ntecs' stock screws fell off with little shooting and kept constantly coming loose, because they are TOO SHORT, and the screw anchors broke loose, among other problems, such as stock screws breaking inside the stock.
I have shot gasrams and have experienced their very high cocking effort per output, as well as their quick and sharp shot cycle. People have speculated that the (too) powerful gasrams simply shake 350 Mag Ntecs apart. But it is irrelevant WHY a gun falls apart, in terms of the public's view of a product, and the damage done to the commercial viability of said product. Isn't it patently clear that an airgun company should make sure their products hold up under normal use without issues, regardless of how challenging the chosen tech is?
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I don't doubt what the reviewers found; but I would mention that after the break-in the screws largely stop coming loose... With one exception-light pellets. The very lightest I shoot is 16 grain Polymags; the norm for me is 18 grains.... Even some 21 grain Barracudas thrown in... Tried shooting 14.something grain Superdomes once; and while it wasn't a completely fair test since they were a fairly loose fit in my bore I could feel/hear what seemed to be the piston bottoming out in the shot cycle... Very violent and not pleasant to shoot at all...
Just some thoughts;
Jesse
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Im the proud owner of a ntec 350 cbb (carbon). Very happy with it. Loctited the screws from day 1. So these are not coming loose. Im female and I have no trouble with enjoying myself with it for few hours so cocking effort is no issue. I find it quite mild to shoot as well. Way milder than a Patriot of Gamo Hunter Extreme. Only having issues with the T06 trigger at the moment. Pitty they discontinued the 350 ntec. Imo, a great combo
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Only Hector knows for sure........
I believe that they were in the middle of being bought by another company and something HAD TO GO. :-\
I consider it corporate excess.... :'(
-Y
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After years have passed, I think it can safely be said that the 350 NTec was a flight of fancy.
As MANY FoF's, it ended up in the "useless" bin.
At the time when DIANA was flirting with the notion of an even more powerful 350, they were also looking at a compound linkage cocking system. The system reduced the Peak Cocking Force (PCF) needed by spreading the energy-gathering over a longer, more uniform arc (much like a compound bow does).
Several prototypes were built and before anyone from the technical side could object, the patent had been purchased (not cheap).
Further tests proved the system to be not so economical to produce as first expected and not so useful as presented, so the whole ECS (easy cocking system) was binned.
And, the 350 NTec came out as it was.
All the distributors were specifically informed about the cocking force needed, but they still bought them in large numbers (especially in the Middle East). Because of the user profile and the local conditions, the main failure reason was weather and storage. Most of the NTec units "deflated" in the very strong temperature swings of the desert (20 to 120 F in a single 24 hour period). And so the "fatal flaw" was not the power, or the difficulty in cocking, or the screws, or the . . . It was the inadequacy of the powerplant to the market that had demanded it.
Lots were sold and, overall, I do not think it was a bad business venture. Perhaps we should have educated the customers in a more "forceful/emphatical" manner, but as We (Americans) say: You can take the horse to water . . . .
In the end, DIANA performed according to the wishes of a market.
¿Isn't that what a customer-driven company should do?
Keep well and shoot straight!
HM
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Thank you Hector for clearing that up.
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My pleasure!
HM
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Please tell me the "fatal flaw" of my 340 N-tec. Trigger could be better, bluing/parkerization could be better; but otherwise it is a great gun. Handsome, ergonomical, accurate. :-*
Still looking for a trombone shaped case... ;D
-Yogi
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A 350 based on a spring piston or gasram I don't mind soo much, though I am still (very patiently...) waiting for a .25 350.
Oh dear Goddess Diana, queen of the hunt, do you hear my prayers ? I am ready to sacrifice some $$$'s to you.
So I would buy one in an eyeblink...
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A 350 based on a spring piston or gasram I don't mind soo much, though I am still (very patiently...) waiting for a .25 350.
Oh dear Goddess Diana, queen of the hunt, do you hear my prayers ? I am ready to sacrifice some $$$'s to you.
So I would buy one in an eyeblink...
That would be easily implemented.
No need to pray to DIANA
Just make a special order to CCA
;-)
HM
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If I were to pray for a custom caliber Diana option it would be a .20 cal D460! THAT is intriguing to me. I love my .22 460 but a 5mm version would make me sprain my elbow reaching for my wallet too quickly.
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If I were to pray for a custom caliber Diana option it would be a .20 cal D460! THAT is intriguing to me. I love my .22 460 but a 5mm version would make me sprain my elbow reaching for my wallet too quickly.
Didn't Hector make a custom version a couple of years ago? Minimum order 20 guns I believe. Should have gotten on the band wagon them.
Anyway, if your pockets are deep enough, anything is possible.
-Y
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If I were to pray for a custom caliber Diana option it would be a .20 cal D460! THAT is intriguing to me. I love my .22 460 but a 5mm version would make me sprain my elbow reaching for my wallet too quickly.
Didn't Hector make a custom version a couple of years ago? Minimum order 20 guns I believe. Should have gotten on the band wagon them.
Anyway, if your pockets are deep enough, anything is possible.
-Y
Not sure Yogi. I disappeared the last 2-3 years and concentrated my focus on vintage .22 lr benchrest competition so I’ve missed much. If that was a thing then I’m bummed out to have missed that boat.
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A 350 based on a spring piston or gasram I don't mind soo much, though I am still (very patiently...) waiting for a .25 350.
Oh dear Goddess Diana, queen of the hunt, do you hear my prayers ? I am ready to sacrifice some $$$'s to you.
So I would buy one in an eyeblink...
That would be easily implemented.
No need to pray to DIANA
Just make a special order to CCA
;-)
HM
Ahhhh !
On its way :)
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If I were to pray for a custom caliber Diana option it would be a .20 cal D460! THAT is intriguing to me. I love my .22 460 but a 5mm version would make me sprain my elbow reaching for my wallet too quickly.
The 460's natural vocation is to grow into a 0.25" cal.
We tried.
Sadly someone else posed the idea of a 52 in that caliber to DIANA and they decided to go that route.
There were three special runs in 0.20" cal:
D460 Stutzen
D34 k
D54
As we'll see in a coming Blog series, the 0.20" reaches an optimum performance on the 54 at around 20 ft-lbs.
Keep well and shoot straight!
HM
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Hector,
That will be very interesting to read, for obvious reasons.
The 20 fpe "limit" for easy magnum accuracy / consistency has been hinted at in various places over the years. I'd like to have a little more MV and ME (just a couple ft.lbs.) with mine, but I'm very willing to be persuaded by a sound argument otherwise.
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Hector,
That will be very interesting to read, for obvious reasons.
The 20 fpe "limit" for easy magnum accuracy / consistency has been hinted at in various places over the years. I'd like to have a little more MV and ME (just a couple ft.lbs.) with mine, but I'm very willing to be persuaded by a sound argument otherwise.
When we speak of "around" we generally allow 2 (TWO) ft-lbs either way.
Friends are shooting their 18 ft-lbs 54's with the 13.7's at chipmunks and getting head shots at 35 yards (a chipmunk's KZ is about 3/8" / 10 mm's) and other friends are shooting the mini-soda cans across a 100 yard+ pond with 16 grainers at 23 ft-lbs.
BOTH cases are sustainable.
What was NOT sustainable was getting 25 ft-lbs out of the platform (it is possible, I have the specs of the spring to achieve it), BUT we discovered the weak link after a few hundreds shots when we tried it.
So, that's your range and the approximate consequences of driving the engine those 5 ft-lbs extra. You go from 0.33 mRads accuracy to 1 mRad accuracy.
You CAN setup the 20 cal 54's to yield the 0.33 mRad at 55 yds/50 m at 20 ft-lbs, but then other parts of the system need "finer tweaking".
As far I understand your usage (practical field riflery), you will be perfectly happy keeping to the 20->23 ft-lbs of yield and tuning the rest of the system to that.
HTH, keep well and shoot straight!
HM