GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: Bayman on May 03, 2021, 01:04:40 PM
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All the recent collective excitement over the 20 caliber Hw50s has had me considering picking one up. Problem for me is I already have two very nice shooting Hw50s in 177 and 22. It's hard for me to justify another or selling either at a loss.
I do have a 177 Hw95 shoots very nicely at a little more than 15 fpe and I figured it might be a perfect candidate for a 20 cal upgrade. After lots of deliberation yesterday I ordered a 20 cal barrel for it. Not cheap at $187.11 with tax. Sadly about a year ago I parted out a 20 caliber Rx1 and sold the same barrel for $50. So much for my good business sense.
So the barrel I ordered is technically for a RX1 or 2. It's going to be longer than the 95k barrel. The gun will be more like a 20 caliber Hw85 with a Luxus stock. One nice thing is that it's not supposed to have dovetails and screw holes for open sights on it. I say supposed to because I reluctantly ordered it from PA and I've been stung by misrepresented products by them more than once.
After I get the barrel and satisfied with it I'll order a new linkage and rivet from Chambers Gunspares to make caliber changes easier.
I'm excited about the conversion as I like to bench shoot this gun at 50 yards and occasionally out to a 100 yards. I think the 20 caliber will be the ticket for better long range performance.
I am a little nervous about the additional length increasing hold sensitivity and reducing accuracy. I guess, I can have it cut if I suspect it is problem. I'm wondering how one puts a choke on a cut barrel without damaging the finish?
I also ordered 6 tins of 20 cal Exacts to grab a few while they were available. Good pellets are getting scarce and expensive.
When all is said and done it'll cost me under $250 to convert a rifle I love to 20 caliber. I'll save a little money over a new 20 cal Hw50 or Hw95 and have the option to easily switch back to 177 if it makes more sense at the time. Such is the journey of an airgunning fool. Thanks for listening.
Ron
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Subscribed!
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I almost was going to offer to buy your RX-1 .20 - then it broke.
I got a R9 .22 from Flying Dragon and a .20 barrel from PA several months ago.
I was going to use the .22 barrel on my R1 but could not bring myself to do that, left the R1 as .20 (5mm).
But I did put the longer PA .20 barrel on the R9 - and it is very accurate and nice.
I was in the 2nd batch of AOA HW50 .20 purchases - it is also very accurate and nice.
Do not know if I will use the R9 .22 barrel or not.
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PA should have a .20 caliber barrel for the HW 80 for $113.
They will fit just fine.
I'm not sure the RX1 barrel will fit...
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Hope you have fun with it. I have no expirence with the .20 cal but do see the attraction to it. If I was forced to only one caliber I would seriously consider the .20/5mm.The HW95 seems like a great candidate for it also. Looking forward to your results.
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8) 8) 8) Preaching too the choir around here about the merits of .20 cal
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In stock problems exist at PA
I bought the last one plus the last rivet
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In stock problems exist at PA
I bought the last one plus the last rivet
Thanks. It doesn't surprise me. It seems everytime I deal with them its a disaster. Well if they don't have it, I'll have 6tins of JSBs to sell and save 200+ dollars
Thank God I was smart enough not to trust them and held off ordering the cocking arm and rivet.
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All the recent collective excitement over the 20 caliber Hw50s has had me considering picking one up. Problem for me is I already have two very nice shooting Hw50s in 177 and 22. It's hard for me to justify another or selling either at a loss.
I do have a 177 Hw95 shoots very nicely at a little more than 15 fpe and I figured it might be a perfect candidate for a 20 cal upgrade. After lots of deliberation yesterday I ordered a 20 cal barrel for it. Not cheap at $187.11 with tax. Sadly about a year ago I parted out a 20 caliber Rx1 and sold the same barrel for $50. So much for my good business sense.
So the barrel I ordered is technically for a RX1 or 2. It's going to be longer than the 95k barrel. The gun will be more like a 20 caliber Hw85 with a Luxus stock. One nice thing is that it's not supposed to have dovetails and screw holes for open sights on it. I say supposed to because I reluctantly ordered it from PA and I've been stung by misrepresented products by them more than once.
After I get the barrel and satisfied with it I'll order a new linkage and rivet from Chambers Gunspares to make caliber changes easier.
I'm excited about the conversion as I like to bench shoot this gun at 50 yards and occasionally out to a 100 yards. I think the 20 caliber will be the ticket for better long range performance.
I am a little nervous about the additional length increasing hold sensitivity and reducing accuracy. I guess, I can have it cut if I suspect it is problem. I'm wondering how one puts a choke on a cut barrel without damaging the finish?
I also ordered 6 tins of 20 cal Exacts to grab a few while they were available. Good pellets are getting scarce and expensive.
When all is said and done it'll cost me under $250 to convert a rifle I love to 20 caliber. I'll save a little money over a new 20 cal Hw50 or Hw95 and have the option to easily switch back to 177 if it makes more sense at the time. Such is the journey of an airgunning fool. Thanks for listening.
Ron
Ron,
I have 4 HW 50's! Never to many... ;D
-Y
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In stock problems exist at PA
I bought the last one plus the last rivet
Thanks. It doesn't surprise me. It seems everytime I deal with them its a disaster. Well if they don't have it, I'll have 6tins of JSBs to sell and save 200+ dollars
Thank God I was smart enough not to trust them and held off ordering the cocking arm and rivet.
Order one from PA and see how long it will take to get one in :D. You can always cancel.
Guaranteed, it would be worth the wait...
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Glad to see you trying the .20 caliber Ron. Not sure the RX barrel will work with the 95 action,...but, i was looking at your gun signature and you have two hw 50’s in .177 and .22, as well as two hw30’s in .177. Why not source a .20 hw 30 barrel and try it on the least fav .177 you already have. I have but one HW 30, and in .20 caliber, and when I have guest over, they all seem to prefer it the best of all my springers. The .20 HW 30 is definitely a game changer and a ‘hard to put down’ shooter. Besides, you have all those .20 pellets in stock. 😁
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Glad to see you trying the .20 caliber Ron. Not sure the RX barrel will work with the 95 action,...but, i was looking at your gun signature and you have two hw 50’s in .177 and .22, as well as two hw30’s in .177. Why not source a .20 hw 30 barrel and try it on the least fav .177 you already have. I have but one HW 30, and in .20 caliber, and when I have guest over, they all seem to prefer it the best of all my springers. The .20 HW 30 is definitely a game changer and a ‘hard to put down’ shooter. Besides, you have all those .20 pellets in stock. 😁
+2 TJK ;)
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As MH has said, ur preaching to the choir around here on the .20cal! I currently have 2 HW50's in .20cal and 2 R1's in .20cal! + all the others I have had in the past! HW95's R9's 97K"s {etc} this is versatile caliber!!! IMO! ;)
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Glad to see you trying the .20 caliber Ron. Not sure the RX barrel will work with the 95 action,...but, i was looking at your gun signature and you have two hw 50’s in .177 and .22, as well as two hw30’s in .177. Why not source a .20 hw 30 barrel and try it on the least fav .177 you already have. I have but one HW 30, and in .20 caliber, and when I have guest over, they all seem to prefer it the best of all my springers. The .20 HW 30 is definitely a game changer and a ‘hard to put down’ shooter. Besides, you have all those .20 pellets in stock.
I'm quite happy with the 30s in 177 just the way are. Their already my favorite airguns and get exponentially more use than the others combined. I don't see much benefit in switching an 8 fpe gun to 20 caliber. In 20 caliber the gun would likely fall under the 600 fps mark. Trajectory under 600 fps is too loopy for my tastes. Not to mention I couldn't afford to feed one of my Hw30s 20 caliber pellets at the rate I use them. Plus in NY it's technically illegal to hunt with a air gun under 600 fps, as stupid as it is. My slowest gun is my 22 caliber Hw50 which is in the lower 600s with 14 grain pellets. I think the Hw50 is the starting point for properly powering a 20 caliber pellet. At least the way I like to shoot. I like them fast and flat. The 22 caliber Hw50 was kind of a mistake that I learned to like. I toy with selling it from time to time but I already have it and with peeps it's fun to clobber spinners and squirrels at close range. In the woods I much prefer my scoped 177 Hw50 over the rest. Maybe I should sell both 50s and get one in 20.
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In stock problems exist at PA
I bought the last one plus the last rivet
I got a tracking number and I'm supposed to get Thursday while I am at work. I won't get to see if it's right or good until Friday morning. I got my fingers crossed it's correct and in good condition. That said I won't be surprised if it's not.
Stay tuned for PA, will they get it right or not. Film on Friday
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Huge fan of the 20 cal as a pester/hunter. Just a great combo of the benefits of 177 and 22. That 95 platform SMOKES those 20 cal pellets out there with authority, I think you'll be happy.
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As a rule I do not like to put down people's airgun choices or cal choices. Having said that, when one is as old as I am and having lived the glory days of air guns I do have my opinions !! Are they correct ?? Who really knows, just one mans observations. This is nothing more and nothing less.
Doc Beeman was good at one thing and that was marketing !! I lived it and I fell for it up to a point. As a airgunner I have made about every mistake a air gun guy can make, and with those mistakes comes experience learned the old fashioned way. Is 20 cal a bad cal ? No it is not. Is it a do all wonder cal ? No it is not. The only thing that really matters is that we shoot and have fun and relax.
I am not really fond of the 20. Why ?? I learned how to shoot and dope the wind. I can shoot lower and mid powered 22 cal air arms well. It took a lifetime to do so and it was a labor of love as I love to shoot.
Most people/not all don't really want to take the time to learn how to shoot. That is when you hear guys say it shoots like a laser.. Bla bla. In the end 20 is just one more choice. I am reminded of this when I ask my wife why she has to have so many handbags or shoes.. LOL.
I have too many air arms !! if you tell me that I will tell you to pound sand but it is never the less true. But like they say who ever dies with the most toys wins !! or so they say. Be well shoot straight and love one another and shoot every chance you get as it does do the soul good.
kindly
ron
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Update to the fickle flake (me) saga.
I canceled my order with pyramid after they shipped the barrel. They were good about it and promised me there'd be no shipping cost or restocking fees if I rejected delivery. Called FedEx to have them return it immediately and directly to PA as I'm often not home to intercept said delivery. We'll see how the rest of the return goes.
I canceled it because I found a discounted 20 caliber old style Hw98 barrel. It's the length I want and 40-50 dollars cheaper than the one from PA. Chambers was nice enough to send me pictures of the slight damage to the sleeve and inspect the aesthetic condition of the barrel under the sleeve to be good. Other than the sleeve grub screws scars under the rear of the barrel. I believe it won't have sight dovetails or screw holes which will be nice.
They had everything else I wanted in stock. I ordered the
98 Barrel
Cocking arm
Cocking arm Rivet
2 Barrel shims to have on hand
Rekord trigger blade to use designing a new set back trigger for my girlfriend.
Whole thing came to $220.35 shipped. Looking forward to getting this together and laying out some longer shots.
Hopefully the JSBs print well as there's not a lot of choices and availability for the caliber right now. I've always loved the concept but this situation I think diminishes its practicality for the casual airgunner. Which is a shame.
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The JSB's shoot well in my R9 (yes, I have one in .20...lol) and should for you. The H&N's when they come available again also should. I've also had, while not stellar, decent groups with the Baracuda's which weigh almost the same as the JSB's at 13.58gr. Most people get focused on the FTT's and JSB's and forget all about those Baracuda's.
It's also a rifle I need to re-sight after swapping the Panorama that was on it in favor of an Airmax 4-12x40.
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My short lived experience with my 20 cal Rx1 was it could get good groups with the FTT, the regular Exacts and the Barracudas.. The JSBs and the Baracudas shared the same zero adjustments. The FTT required to be completely rezeroed.
The gun absolutely hated the JSB Heavies. Luckily any of the other three could do quarter sized groups at 50 yds. I'll be happy to get the same.
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Only thing I've had a chance to do with the 15.89's was run a 10 shot string to give me an idea on fps numbers when they first came out and 19Sheridan57 sent me some to play with. Accuracy, nope..well, nope not yet. I'm almost a year behind with a lot of my guns for more than a few reasons.
YMMV but with mine, Avg 631, ES 15, SD 4, 14.05 fpe. I also, except for the Weihrauch branded .20's which they call FTT's and say weigh 13.4gr, own at least 2 tins of every other .20 pellet being sold and a lot to test although the Daystate offerings are nothing more than rebranded JSB's and so far only at AoA. Most definitely skip the Benji's but you already knew that...lol. Those things only shoot ok in my Silver Streak and even that rifle shoots H&N and JSB better.
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I'm also with airgunbuff on a few points although in my case, I'm rather fond of .20 and he's not...lol. Be all, end all caliber? Nope. Laser? Only if I can hold the rifle on target and do my part and nowadays all my shooting is from a bench for reasons I've chosen not to chat about...lol.
I have guns in 4 calibers and enjoy them all. I also, except for rare occasions, only shoot 30ish yards and .20 fits in there very nicely although I'd guess I can shoot farther any time I want.
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I'm not expecting the 20 caliber to be the be all perfect solution. I love my 177 guns, I just wanted to try something different. I was long considering bumping up the Hw95 to 22 but Weihrauch has a checkered past with the quality of some their 22 barrels. Power wise I think the 95 is marginal for 22, so I'm thinking the 20 is a way to get a bit more downrange energy and hopefully accuracy over my 177. I purposely bought the linkage and rivet so I can easily revert to 177 when it is more practical. It's costing me roughly $200 to try something new. I'm sure if I'm not happy I can get $50 for the barrel again :(
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I'm not expecting the 20 caliber to be the be all perfect solution. I love my 177 guns, I just wanted to try something different. I was long considering bumping up the Hw95 to 22 but Weihrauch has a checkered past with the quality of some their 22 barrels. Power wise I think the 95 is marginal for 22, so I'm thinking the 20 is a way to get a bit more downrange energy and hopefully accuracy over my 177. I purposely bought the linkage and rivet so I can easily revert to 177 when it is more practical. It's costing me roughly $200 to try something new. I'm sure if I'm not happy I can get $50 for the barrel again :(
Trying something new !! If it makes one happy then go for it. If it adds to your enjoyment of the hobbie then have a ball. We are big boys and girls here and its our money to spend how we like. I have several 22 cal HWs and they all are tackdrivers. My HW98 inn 22 extreamly so !! Its funny what sticks in people heads.
Its like when some folks parrot the old FWB 124s being crude junk stuff just because some internet guru said it on the internet. I have 4 old FWB 124s and there is a reason for that !! It all comes down to personal experience and likes and dislikes.
For me I personally don't care for Dianas as to me they don't compare to HWs but that is just me. That said I love the old Diana target rifles. Each of us shoots what we like and that is as it should be. Grown boys and girls playing with bb guns !!! LOL I got that 20 cal laser I am lusting to convert to 22 but I just can't do it cause that is the way the gun came and they did not make many of them so it will remain a 20. Call me fickle !!
kindly
ron
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My 95 in .22 is a 15.5 fpe rifle and as accurate as I can shoot it, so out of curiousity, how much power do you think it should have since I've seen you a few times say you feel the power is marginal in the 95? Little oversized? Might well be since the FTT 5.54's fit a bit snugger than the 5.53's and are more accurate, but I've read that same thing from more than a few owners and only a very rare few who say .22 just didn't work for them. Random lame as always and counts for squat opinion is don't be so leery of .22...lol.
AGB...you ever decide to part ways with that Laser, can I call dibs...lol.
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My 95 in .22 is a 15.5 fpe rifle and as accurate as I can shoot it, so out of curiousity, how much power do you think it should have since I've seen you a few times say you feel the power is marginal in the 95? Little oversized? Might well be since the FTT 5.54's fit a bit snugger than the 5.53's and are more accurate, but I've read that same thing from more than a few owners and only a very rare few who say .22 just didn't work for them. Random lame as always and counts for squat opinion is don't be so leery of .22...lol.
AGB...you ever decide to part ways with that Laser, can I call dibs...lol.
Which laser?
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My 95 in .22 is a 15.5 fpe rifle and as accurate as I can shoot it, so out of curiousity, how much power do you think it should have since I've seen you a few times say you feel the power is marginal in the 95? Little oversized? Might well be since the FTT 5.54's fit a bit snugger than the 5.53's and are more accurate, but I've read that same thing from more than a few owners and only a very rare few who say .22 just didn't work for them. Random lame as always and counts for squat opinion is don't be so leery of .22...lol.
AGB...you ever decide to part ways with that Laser, can I call dibs...lol.
LOL Yes Steve if I ever part with it You got first dibs....
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My 95 in .22 is a 15.5 fpe rifle and as accurate as I can shoot it, so out of curiousity, how much power do you think it should have since I've seen you a few times say you feel the power is marginal in the 95? Little oversized? Might well be since the FTT 5.54's fit a bit snugger than the 5.53's and are more accurate, but I've read that same thing from more than a few owners and only a very rare few who say .22 just didn't work for them. Random lame as always and counts for squat opinion is don't be so leery of .22...lol.
AGB...you ever decide to part ways with that Laser, can I call dibs...lol.
Which laser?
Beeman Mark2 R-1 laser in Blond Lamanate stock made between 1995 and 1999
kindly
ron
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About my feelings about the 22 cal Hw95. It's just a personal choice I prefer fast and flat shooting guns. Shooting several guns with very different trajectory make getting good with any of them harder. So my concerns about trajectory far out weighed my concerns about getting a dud barrel. Still there's a few well regarded members here that have had overbored 22 Weihrauch barrels that never printed well. Between that and the slower velocity I opted to try the 20 for my Hw95. My Rx1 in 20 was cool while it lasted but I have to admit it was too cumbersome for my taste and the poor selection of pellets was off-putting.
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My 95 in .22 is a 15.5 fpe rifle and as accurate as I can shoot it, so out of curiousity, how much power do you think it should have since I've seen you a few times say you feel the power is marginal in the 95? Little oversized? Might well be since the FTT 5.54's fit a bit snugger than the 5.53's and are more accurate, but I've read that same thing from more than a few owners and only a very rare few who say .22 just didn't work for them. Random lame as always and counts for squat opinion is don't be so leery of .22...lol.
AGB...you ever decide to part ways with that Laser, can I call dibs...lol.
Which laser?
Beeman Mark2 R-1 laser in Blond Lamanate stock made between 1995 and 1999
kindly
ron
ohhh AGB. Now I got it.
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About my feelings about the 22 cal Hw95. It's just a personal choice I prefer fast and flat shooting guns. Shooting several guns with very different trajectory make getting good with any of them harder. So my concerns about trajectory far out weighed my concerns about getting a dud barrel. Still there's a few well regarded members here that have had overbored 22 Weihrauch barrels that never printed well. Between that and the slower velocity I opted to try the 20 for my Hw95. My Rx1 in 20 was cool while it lasted but I have to admit it was too cumbersome for my taste and the poor selection of pellets was off-putting.
Understandable and something I deal with myself since my springers run the gamut of 7 to 20 fpe in 4 calibers.
My 95 in .22 is a 15.5 fpe rifle and as accurate as I can shoot it, so out of curiousity, how much power do you think it should have since I've seen you a few times say you feel the power is marginal in the 95? Little oversized? Might well be since the FTT 5.54's fit a bit snugger than the 5.53's and are more accurate, but I've read that same thing from more than a few owners and only a very rare few who say .22 just didn't work for them. Random lame as always and counts for squat opinion is don't be so leery of .22...lol.
AGB...you ever decide to part ways with that Laser, can I call dibs...lol.
LOL Yes Steve if I ever part with it You got first dibs....
:) Many thanks sir :)
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The .20cal is a compromise in certain power plants for efficiency, to give a heavier pellet weight with a flatter trajectory over a .22cal and a bit more punch over a .177cal, I'm not saying either of the other 2 are lesser! the .20cal has an inherent accuracy quality about it, I have accurate .177cal rifles and accurate .22cal rifles, but the .20cal just seems to do it better! if we compare using just a HW50, from experience I find a full power .177cal to violent in the shot cycle and some what hold sensitive, In my experience when you up the bore size just a a tic to a .20 or .22cal things change! and become smoother less violent, which aids in accuracy! easier to shoot all around, you may get more velocity from a .177cal with a lighter pellet but you don't get the knock down power of a heavier pellet! I am a hunter as well as a target shooter, I shoot shots most of the time out to 50yds and beyond at birds and rabbits and other small game, that said my choice for these types of long range shots is a .20cal or a .22cal pellet, from an accurate rifle such as this!!! These shots are very capable due to the smoothness of the shot cycle of the bigger bore DIA, any way just my thoughts and my usage YMMV!!!! ;)
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Uncle!!! I give up! This morning Chambers contacted me and informed me that they had not disassembled the 98 barrel to inspect the condition of the underlying barrel to be "new and unmarked" as implied by them. I canceled the order. Looking like I will have 6 tins JSB 20 caliber Exacts for sale in the near future. Ughhh!
This has been way too much work and mental anguish. I'll just keep the gun in 177. Maybe I'll just try heavier pellets for long range energy retention and accuracy. I did try the 10.34s and they didn't print well but then again the skirts were damaged. Barracudas? Suggestions?
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You've mentioned Mundilar in the past for parts and stocks, any chance they might be able to help?
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Uncle!!! I give up! This morning Chambers contacted me and informed me that they had not disassembled the 98 barrel to inspect the condition of the underlying barrel to be "new and unmarked" as implied by them. I canceled the order. Looking like I will have 6 tins JSB 20 caliber Exacts for sale in the near future. Ughhh!
This has been way too much work and mental anguish. I'll just keep the gun in 177. Maybe I'll just try heavier pellets for long range energy retention and accuracy. I did try the 10.34s and they didn't print well but then again the skirts were damaged. Barracudas? Suggestions?
Sorry to hear about your grief Ron.. That said it could be a blessing is discuise !! Just a thought.
kindly
ron
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Uncle!!! I give up! This morning Chambers contacted me and informed me that they had not disassembled the 98 barrel to inspect the condition of the underlying barrel to be "new and unmarked" as implied by them. I canceled the order. Looking like I will have 6 tins JSB 20 caliber Exacts for sale in the near future. Ughhh!
This has been way too much work and mental anguish. I'll just keep the gun in 177. Maybe I'll just try heavier pellets for long range energy retention and accuracy. I did try the 10.34s and they didn't print well but then again the skirts were damaged. Barracudas? Suggestions?
Sorry to hear about your grief Ron.. That said it could be a blessing is discuise !! Just a thought.
kindly
ron
Thinking you're right. As I has no real complaints about my Hw95 in 177. Years ago I whacked a starling at a little over 100 yards. It's very accurate for my standards routinely shoots quarter sized groups at 50 yds. Occasionally dime sized, on one of my "good days" with a good tin and low winds of course. I guess I was caught up in the 20 cal excitement and figured it was worth a try for a couple hundred less than a new Hw50 that everyone's raving about.
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You've mentioned Mundilar in the past for parts and stocks, any chance they might be able to help?
Thanks Steve Mundilar only carries basic consumable Weihrauch parts like seals and springs.
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The .20cal is a compromise in certain power plants for efficiency, to give a heavier pellet weight with a flatter trajectory over a .22cal and a bit more punch over a .177cal, I'm not saying either of the other 2 are lesser! the .20cal has an inherent accuracy quality about it, I have accurate .177cal rifles and accurate .22cal rifles, but the .20cal just seems to do it better! if we compare using just a HW50, from experience I find a full power .177cal to violent in the shot cycle and some what hold sensitive, In my experience when you up the bore size just a a tic to a .20 or .22cal things change! and become smoother less violent, which aids in accuracy! easier to shoot all around, you may get more velocity from a .177cal with a lighter pellet but you don't get the knock down power of a heavier pellet! I am a hunter as well as a target shooter, I shoot shots most of the time out to 50yds and beyond at birds and rabbits and other small game, that said my choice for these types of long range shots is a .20cal or a .22cal pellet, from an accurate rifle such as this!!! These shots are very capable due to the smoothness of the shot cycle of the bigger bore DIA, any way just my thoughts and my usage YMMV!!!! ;)
"The .20cal is a compromise in certain power plants for efficiency"
Ole "Doc Beeman" claimed that the .20 cal was the "best of both worlds" for the Beeman R1 saying that the .20 R1 shot flatter than the .22 and had more energy than the .177 (my paraphrase). After reading all the "fat pellet mo better" decades ago, plus finding the R1 too heavy and large, I ordered a .20 R9 and personally found the opposite was true. For my R9s the .177 had a considerably flatter trajectory than the .20 yet it wasn't more effective for squirrels. I think the reason for this is that the loopy .20 trajectory past my 30 yard zero distance made it extremely difficult to judge the proper holdover when a "5 yard guestimation error" could be an extra 1" of pellet drop vs the .177. I do think that perhaps the .20 cal for piston guns with large swept volumes like the Beeman R1 is better than squishing all that air down a .177 hole, but the R9 with a 26mm receiver isn't a R1 with a 30mm receiver.
When properly hit (pellet through the vitals) I didn't notice that a .20 pellet killed a squirrel any quicker than the .177 but also found that a "pellet off the mark" wasn't as effective as a .177 that penetrated the vitals. Years ago I read a thread on the "old yeller forum" where it was claimed the a .20 Crow Magnum pellet at a minimum 14fpe would double the supposed kill zone size. At that time I was experimenting with oring sealed piston caps so I bought a tin of .20 CMs, tuned it to shoot CMs at 17fpe, then squirrel hunted with that pellet for a whole week. The result was that as long as the hit was a brain or double lung hit the .20 CM worked perfectly but the max accuracy distance for the CM was about 30 yards with the pellets going their own way after that. Matter of fact, I found that all the hollow point pellets I tried had tha sam characteristic. The down side of that "CM one week test" that my "hit to retrieve ratio" was a paltry 50% whereas my ratio for a simple .177 Crosman Premier dome was 90+%. The .20 CMs that actually killed a squirrel did make a "perty mushroom" like this..........
(https://i.imgur.com/Kfy08cM.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/C5pNeQ8.jpg)
After a year and half playing with a .20 (& then .22) barreled R9 I didn't notice any difference if "squirrel take down" vs the .177 at my 30 yard zero distance, however past that distance there were a LOT more "off the mark" hits where I didn't guess the correct distance plus or minus a couple yards. I ended up selling both the .20 and .22 barrels reverting back to .177 never looking back!
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Thanks for sharing Ed !! Way back in the day when the R-1 first came out I had great luck with an R-1 in 177 cal with heavy 10 grain pellets. I forget the pellet. It was common for me to make kills on treerats out to 75 yards. My eyes were better then.
But 22 was my go to cal as I learned to shoot at a early age and in my family marksmanship was very important. I really enjoy your post Ed. Thanks
kindly
ron
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You've mentioned Mundilar in the past for parts and stocks, any chance they might be able to help?
Thanks Steve Mundilar only carries basic consumable Weihrauch parts like seals and springs.
Figured I'd take a shot. If you end up deciding to get rid of those JSB's, shoot me a PM...I have 8 rifles in .20 I can use them for :)
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Ed? Out of curiousity, do you just copy and paste a lot of your posts straight out of Word files? I've seen that same exact post and others, word for word and picture for picture, more times than I can count when it comes to talk about .20 caliber and other topics and figure that's how you pull that trick off...lol.
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You've mentioned Mundilar in the past for parts and stocks, any chance they might be able to help?
Thanks Steve Mundilar only carries basic consumable Weihrauch parts like seals and springs.
Figured I'd take a shot. If you end up deciding to get rid of those JSB's, shoot me a PM...I have 8 rifles in .20 I can use them for :)
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Ed? Out of curiousity, do you just copy and paste a lot of your posts straight out of Word files? I've seen that same exact post and others, word for word and picture for picture, more times than I can count when it comes to talk about .20 caliber and other topics and figure that's how you pull that trick off...lol.
LOL....Nope, I don't, matter of fact the only word processing software I have is Libre Office and I seldom use that. As you and others are aware, over a couple decades I've "plagiarized" my own replies :o enough to simply go from memory. I also I have a lot of pics uploaded to a photo hosting site which are often used. Hummmm.....took the time and effort to take many pics and upload them so I can use them when appropriate but my forum replies/posts are simply ad-lib.
Please notice that I didn't jump on the "rejoining the .20 cal crowd thread" till the "The .20cal is a compromise in certain power plants for efficiency" comment where I gave examples of agreement my personal experience/opinion.
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Hey Ron Airgun spares has this one in stock now I just received the notice, but it is a threaded carbine (310mm) and I do not think that is what you were looking for.
https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html (https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html)
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Hey Ron Airgun spares has this one in stock now I just received the notice, but it is a threaded carbine (310mm) and I do not think that is what you were looking for.
https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html (https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html)
145 British Pound Sterling equals $201.62975 US
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Hey Ron Airgun spares has this one in stock now I just received the notice, but it is a threaded carbine (310mm) and I do not think that is what you were looking for.
https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html (https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html)
145 British Pound Sterling equals $201.62975 US
There is a discount I think it's 120 so $167 US, still pricey.
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Hey Ron Airgun spares has this one in stock now I just received the notice, but it is a threaded carbine (310mm) and I do not think that is what you were looking for.
https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html (https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html)
Thanks Jeff. That's not what I was looking for. I'm not interested in putting a can on anything and without it's on the short side. Thanks for thinking of me. Maybe my canceled PA barrel will still show up tomorrow and I'll decide what I want to do from there. Honestly the shine has worn off and I'm ok without doing the conversion at this point. I'll just sell off the JSBs enroute.
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Hey Ron Airgun spares has this one in stock now I just received the notice, but it is a threaded carbine (310mm) and I do not think that is what you were looking for.
https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html (https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html)
145 British Pound Sterling equals $201.62975 US
There is a discount I think it's 120 so $167 US, still pricey.
This is where I got 145 BP...............
https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html (https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html)
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Hey Ron Airgun spares has this one in stock now I just received the notice, but it is a threaded carbine (310mm) and I do not think that is what you were looking for.
https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html (https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html)
145 British Pound Sterling equals $201.62975 US
There is a discount I think it's 120 so $167 US, still pricey.
This is where I got 145 BP...............
https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html (https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html)
Yes but when you put it in the cart and enter shipping address to the US it goes down to 120, guess we get a 20% discount.
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Hey Ron Airgun spares has this one in stock now I just received the notice, but it is a threaded carbine (310mm) and I do not think that is what you were looking for.
https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html (https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html)
145 British Pound Sterling equals $201.62975 US
There is a discount I think it's 120 so $167 US, still pricey.
This is where I got 145 BP...............
https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html (https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html)
Yes but when you put it in the cart and enter shipping address to the US it goes down to 120, guess we get a 20% discount.
Thanks for the correction! As you mentioned, still expensive.
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Hey Ron Airgun spares has this one in stock now I just received the notice, but it is a threaded carbine (310mm) and I do not think that is what you were looking for.
https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html (https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html)
145 British Pound Sterling equals $201.62975 US
There is a discount I think it's 120 so $167 US, still pricey.
This is where I got 145 BP...............
https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html (https://www.airgunspares.com/hw80barrel20khw80barrel-20carbine.html)
Yes but when you put it in the cart and enter shipping address to the US it goes down to 120, guess we get a 20% discount.
thank you I wasn't aware of that
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Ed, I understand ur thinking, but as u have said your shooting is around 30yds, at that distance caliber doesn't make a whole of difference, most of my shooting is out past 40yds and generally at 55 to 60yds, where the heavier .20cal pellets tend to not get blown around by the wind as bad as lighter pellets do! I took 3 of my HW rifles here as of late and shot them all back to back at the same distance, 1 rifle was a .177cal HW35 that shoots a 7.9gn CPHP @ 725fps 2 was my HW95 that shoots a 14.66gn FTT @630fps and my new HW50 .20cal that's shoots a 11.42gn FTT @650fps, the distance was 55yds and they had about the same POI all of them used 2mils of hold over, the difference is when I shoot birds at that range with the .20cal or .22cal they drop as tho struck by lightning no so with the .177cal, and were talking about the guns I have listed here! 8)
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Ed, I understand ur thinking, but as u have said your shooting is around 30yds, at that distance caliber doesn't make a whole of difference, most of my shooting is out past 40yds and generally at 55 to 60yds, where the heavier .20cal pellets tend to not get blown around by the wind as bad as lighter pellets do! I took 3 of my HW rifles here as of late and shot them all back to back at the same distance, 1 rifle was a .177cal HW35 that shoots a 7.9gn CPHP @ 725fps 2 was my HW95 that shoots a 14.66gn FTT @630fps and my new HW50 .20cal that's shoots a 11.42gn FTT @650fps, the distance was 55yds and they had about the same POI all of them used 2mils of hold over, the difference is when I shoot birds at that range with the .20cal or .22cal they drop as tho struck by lightning no so with the .177cal, and were talking about the guns I have listed here! 8)
"u have said your shooting is around 30yds"
Nope, I've mentioned that my ZERO DISTANCE is 30 yards and out to that distance it didn't matter if I used .177, .20 or .22 barrel on my R9. As also mentioned, the issue with the heavier pellets was at distances past my ZERO DISTANCE where the trajectory was loopy enough that holdover errors created more "off the mark hits" than necessary. With my .177 cal pellet I can use a "center of squirrel head" hold from 15 yards to 35 yard get a "brain shot" while holding the top of a squirrel head I get a brain shot out to 40 yards". Using the same "top of head" at 40 yards the hits would be low, often busting the jaw. Basically, using .20 or .22 cal pellets with my R9 turned a reliable "40 yard squirrel getter" into a basic "zero plus a couple yard" reliable R9.
"most of my shooting is out past 40yds and generally at 55 to 60yds"
When shooting living critters I don't take "lottery shots" and TRY to stalk within 30-35 yards and if the distance exceeds about 40 yards I simply stalk closer.
"the distance was 55yds and they had about the same POI all of them used 2mils of hold over,"
LOL, are we "setting up a straw man to knock over"? The trajectory of a CPHP from a .177 HW35 at 725fps (you have a good one because my .177 HW35 would only shoot a RWS SuperDome at 680fps) or a new HW50 at 630fps certainly wouldn't be the same as my .177 R9 shooting 7.9 grain CPLs at 900fps (my tune level back then). After being disappointed with the ballistics of the then new .20 R9 I compared the "flatness of trajectory" using a 30 yard zero and found that I needed to tune the .20 with a Beeman FTS pellet to a hold sensitive 17fps to match the trajectory the .177 pellet at only 13fps.
" the difference is when I shoot birds at that range with the .20cal or .22cal they drop as tho struck by lightning no so with the .177cal,"
Hummm.......I had a completely different experience with squirrels because I didn't notice a squirrel hit with a .20/.22 pellet to make enough difference (actually any difference) to accept the "trajectory curve". When I was a ".22 rimfire squirrel hunter" I had more than a couple grey squirrels take a 100+ fpe hit through both lungs and still travel several feet to die inside a "tree hole" so I really don't put much stock in the fpe of normal springers.
For the last few years with the availability of "dot reticle scopes" I've reduced my .177 R9/HW95 power level to about 12.5fps (7.9 CPL at 850fps) and here is an example of the trajectory curve I got at my shooting lane from 10 yards to 50 yards using a 30 yard zero..............
(https://i.imgur.com/a7azSng.jpg)
I have no issue with what caliber you use or what power level, I was simply agreeing with the "The .20cal is a compromise in certain power plants for efficiency" comment in this thread mentioning that the .20 (vs .177) pellet wasn't a good choice FOR ME.
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Ed, I don't make loto shots, my shots at those distances are spot on the mark, I shoot these distances almost on a daily basis, I have a dirt mound out that far that is full of small rocks the size of a quarter and smaller, I can hit them 99.9% of the time with 1 shot! like its nothing! and I'm leaning out the window only supporting my forend hand on a seal of the window ;)
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You Guys need to watch this guy here! I have learned a lot from him and can shoot just like him! ;)
https://youtu.be/HPNEJhaLPYY
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1 more! 8)
https://youtu.be/vO-z6nJfxrk
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Yoda - The "Si Pittaway" of Indiana ;) 8) :D ;D ::)
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You know Guys and Gals,
We've had so many posts regarding which caliber is best for Weihrauch Springers ... that it's getting really tired - at least for me. Everyone has different shooting needs/styles ... so we need to be flexible.
- One Truth is Weihrauch, generally makes very good .177 caliber barrels - I don't think too many people have gotten a bad shooter. However, I'm sure some have.
- My experience shows that .20 caliber can be very good too - I like to push them > 710 FPS.
- My (recent barrels) experience has been more mixed, even though I didn't go to the end of the world to find the perfect pellet. However, many shooters have had great success - 8).
No matter what the caliber, sometimes we get an exceptional shooting barrel ;).
If you do ... Hold On to that Baby at a costs - it's likely your favorite gun.
Lastly, everyone should shoot the caliber or weight they feel confident in.
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You know Guys and Gals,
We've had so many posts regarding which caliber is best for Weihrauch Springers ... that it's getting really tired - at least for me. Everyone has different shooting needs/styles ... so we need to be flexible.
- One Truth is Weihrauch, generally makes very good .177 caliber barrels - I don't think too many people have gotten a bad shooter. However, I'm sure some have.
- My experience shows that .20 caliber can be very good too - I like to push them > 710 FPS.
- My (recent barrels) experience has been more mixed, even though I didn't go to the end of the world to find the perfect pellet. However, many shooters have had great success - 8).
No matter what the caliber, sometimes we get an exceptional shooting barrel ;).
If you do ... Hold On to that Baby at a costs - it's likely your favorite gun.
Lastly, everyone should shoot the caliber or weight they feel confident in.
Well said!
My Hatsan shoots the Crossman P Hollow points better than the domes. Or at least I do, when I shoot my Hatsan. Shooting is 70-80% mental. We search for the best pellet not because it is, but because we think it is.... ;D ;D ;D
-Y
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You know Guys and Gals,
We've had so many posts regarding which caliber is best for Weihrauch Springers ... that it's getting really tired - at least for me. Everyone has different shooting needs/styles ... so we need to be flexible.
- One Truth is Weihrauch, generally makes very good .177 caliber barrel - I don't think too many people have gotten a bad shooter. However, I'm sure some have.
- My experience shows that .20 caliber can be very good too - I like to push them > 710 FPS.
- My (recent barrels) .22 caliber experience has been more mixed, even though I didn't go to the end of the world to find the perfect pellet. However, many shooters have had great success - 8).
No matter what the caliber, sometimes we get an exceptional shooting barrel ;).
If you do ... Hold On to that Baby at a costs - it's likely your favorite gun.
Lastly, everyone should shoot the caliber or weight they feel confident in.
Well said!
My Hatsan shoots the Crossman P Hollow points better than the domes. Or at least I do, when I shoot my Hatsan. Shooting is 70-80% mental. We search for the best pellet not because it is, but because we think it is.... ;D ;D ;D
-Y
Fixing my Typo's in prior post ???
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Ed, I don't make loto shots, my shots at those distances are spot on the mark, I shoot these distances almost on a daily basis, I have a dirt mound out that far that is full of small rocks the size of a quarter and smaller, I can hit them 99.9% of the time with 1 shot! like its nothing! and I'm leaning out the window only supporting my forend hand on a seal of the window ;)
Years ago I did some 50 yard testing from "bucket and sticks" using paint balls for targets. I glued 20 PBs onto a cardboard backing and I took a talley of how many hits I got under field conditions in my West Virginia back yard and the result FOR ME was that I had no excuse for shooting at CRITTERS at 50 yards under WV field conditions. I only hit 50% and I was amazed how far some of the misses were..........
Before..........
(https://i.imgur.com/F0Bcs4s.jpg)
After.........
(https://i.imgur.com/CyTEDiE.jpg)
Yup, I learned that shooting at squirrels past 40 yards was pretty much lottery shooting FOR ME! Still, whatever trips YOUR trigger is fine with me since using a .20/.22 pellet at 750 fps vs the .177 at 900 fps reduced the HIT to KILL RATIO from plus 90% to 50% during the 1 week trial shooting distances past 30 yards.
I do admit the the .20 Crow Magnum pellet had more to do with the pellet performance than the caliber because that pellet "went it's own way" past 30 yards and the .20 CM at over 14fpe (the R9 was tuned to shoot 'em at 17fpe) DIDN'T double the killzone size as was claimed by a Yeller forum thread!
By the way, under calm weather field conditions while sitting on a bucket resting the HW95 or R9 (or HW98 I tuned) on cross sticks I can occasionally shoot some pretty good 50 yard groups, however FOR ME to shoot at squirrels under normal field conditions is "lottery shooting". LOL...this is especially true considering my steadiness while sittin' on the bucket. Included below is an example of a target where my 5/8" 50 yard group was tighter than the 1" 40 yard group............
(https://i.imgur.com/8SZm6IE.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/v6Ug0yH.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/d5v1VdP.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/eIKiook.jpg)
Anywhoo.....the main issue I had with the .20 & .22 cal pellet from a R9 was the steep trajectory past the 30 yard zero which made guessing the holdover more critical than I possess under field conditions in unfamiliar areas while squirrel hunting.
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Ed not to put you down in any manner BUT !! I remember you from the yellow of many years ago and your oring piston seals. That said learning to shoot doping the wind and hold over and under are talents which must be learned. Just putting the crosshairs on the target and squeezing the trigger is not shooting.
Very few people know how to shoot well !! Its called marksmanship. It does not come easy. It is a disapline which takes study and years to perfect. Air guns make it even harder to learn because of the limited power. I am an old fart and my eyes are not what they used to be.. I still see quite well but judging distance gets harder everyday.
I find that most airgunners like the 177 because it shoots pretty flat compared to other cal. Translation most people never take the time to learn the gun, ammo and learn the variables of what makes a good marksman.
This may sound like I am all high and mighty but I am not trying to toot my own horn. It just is what it is. My now long gone granddad taught me how to shoot and he demanded that I do it well. To be honest he took a lot of the fun out of it in a manner but I did learn. To him it was a science and he made me approach it it as such.
Today as an old fart who is disabled I shoot to relax and not to brag I am quite good. Not like I used to be but Still it is what I know and love.
Today folks are just lazy, "dang" lazy really !! Just a reality of todays world. Long ago I wanted to play guitar and I started taking lessons.. after about ten lessons the teacher asked me how much I practiced.. He did not like my respnse and told me to go home and play the radio... LOL !! Thing was I was too busy shooting.
Most here will flame me but to shoot well it must become a passion and it is work !! I had a good teacher and I miss him more with each passing day.
as clint would say "a man has got to know his limitations" some never do learn !!
Kindly
ron
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Ed not to put you down in any manner BUT !! I remember you from the yellow of many years ago and your oring piston seals. That said learning to shoot doping the wind and hold over and under are talents which must be learned. Just putting the crosshairs on the target and squeezing the trigger is not shooting.
Very few people know how to shoot well !! Its called marksmanship. It does not come easy. It is a disapline which takes study and years to perfect. Air guns make it even harder to learn because of the limited power. I am an old fart and my eyes are not what they used to be.. I still see quite well but judging distance gets harder everyday.
I find that most airgunners like the 177 because it shoots pretty flat compared to other cal. Translation most people never take the time to learn the gun, ammo and learn the variables of what makes a good marksman.
This may sound like I am all high and mighty but I am not trying to toot my own horn. It just is what it is. My now long gone granddad taught me how to shoot and he demanded that I do it well. To be honest he took a lot of the fun out of it in a manner but I did learn. To him it was a science and he made me approach it it as such.
Today as an old fart who is disabled I shoot to relax and not to brag I am quite good. Not like I used to be but Still it is what I know and love.
Today folks are just lazy, "dang" lazy really !! Just a reality of todays world. Long ago I wanted to play guitar and I started taking lessons.. after about ten lessons the teacher asked me how much I practiced.. He did not like my respnse and told me to go home and play the radio... LOL !! Thing was I was too busy shooting.
Most here will flame me but to shoot well it must become a passion and it is work !! I had a good teacher and I miss him more with each passing day.
as clint would say "a man has got to know his limitations" some never do learn !!
Kindly
ron
In Ed's (and Mine) defense why beat your head against a wall learning to shoot like you say you do, if the shooter is satisfied with the results of shooting a flatter shooting gun. Also to be as proficient as you say you are, one must practice often and with only one gun and one pellet under several conditions. "Beware the man with one gun for he knows how to use it". If you use multiple guns, calibers and pellet types doping all of them the way you say you do becomes impossible. There's too many variables.
That's why people like me play the radio and shoot the flatest shooting air guns we can. By time trajectory becomes a problem we have no business taking a shot at a critter. Whether it's our talent or the lack of power there comes a time to know what a practical range is. I like to stretch out my shots and do ok but it still takes me a while to get it right. Probably has to do with I show up at the range with 5 different guns between 8 and 15 fpe, 2 different calibers and run two or three types of pellets through each. Then I shoot targets ANYWHERE between 25 to 110 yards. So call me a lazy radio listener but only Jimi Hendrix could play that many different guitars well. Who knows maybe you're the Jimi Hendrix of airguns. If so God bless. Me I like the radio because I know my limitations.
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Today's World is a very specialized one:
Many shooters on the GTA can be considered experts at their style of shooting. I have no doubt that Ed, Mark, Jonnie or Airgun Buff are or were expert shooters ... doing what they do best ;).
Their opinions have been formed by experiences and are rightly correct for their style of shooting ... and shouldn't be diminished - but should be a "guide" for everyone.
New airgunners and older one's (myself) need to mine the nuggets of information from their stories - most applicable to their needs.
There is no perfect caliber for a Springer from .177 to 30 caliber - just depends on what you want to do :D.
I only shoot targets ... so .177/.20 calibers are all I need out to 80 yards. Sure, I could adjust to doping the .22 caliber drop at 80 yards, but why would I want to spend my time doing this when great pellets are available with high BC in .177/.20 relative to a .22 caliber?
There are just too many things in life to spend ones time on ....... with work and kids at home - come on :o.
However, I do believe the younger generation expects everything to come easy. The cure - Life Experience. An additional 20+ years experience added to a teenager life will be rewarded greatly by generating better decisions/thinking needed to get things done.
My Dad taught me how to shoot, but mainly how to Safely shoot. I got clobbered a few times before it became clear - I needed to Listen ... carefully ::).
That said, I can only shoot about 1/2 hour before my eyes (cataracts) fuzz out .... but what fun that is 8).
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Today's World is a very specialized one:
Many shooters on the GTA can be considered experts at their style of shooting. I have no doubt that Ed, Mark, Jonnie or Airgun Buff are or were expert shooters ... doing what they do best ;).
Their opinions have been formed by experiences and are rightly correct for their style of shooting ... and shouldn't be diminished - but should be a "guide" for everyone.
New airgunners and older one's (myself) need to mine the nuggets of information from their stories - most applicable to their needs.
There is no perfect caliber for a Springer from .177 to 30 caliber - just depends on what you want to do :D.
I only shoot targets ... so .177/.20 calibers are all I need out to 80 yards. Sure, I could adjust to doping the .22 caliber drop at 80 yards, but why would I want to spend my time doing this when great pellets are available with high BC in .177/.20 relative to a .22 caliber?
There are just too many things in life to spend ones time on ....... with work and kids at home - come on :o.
However, I do believe the younger generation expects everything to come easy. The cure - Life Experience. An additional 20+ years experience added to a teenager life will be rewarded greatly by generating better decisions/thinking needed to get things done.
My Dad taught me how to shoot, but mainly how to Safely shoot. I got clobbered a few times before it became clear - I needed to Listen ... carefully ::).
That said, I can only shoot about 1/2 hour before my eyes (cataracts) fuzz out .... but what fun that is 8).
LOL !!! good stuff I needed the laugh !! many thanks
kindly
ron
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Ed not to put you down in any manner BUT !! I remember you from the yellow of many years ago and your oring piston seals. That said learning to shoot doping the wind and hold over and under are talents which must be learned. Just putting the crosshairs on the target and squeezing the trigger is not shooting.
Very few people know how to shoot well !! Its called marksmanship. It does not come easy. It is a disapline which takes study and years to perfect. Air guns make it even harder to learn because of the limited power. I am an old fart and my eyes are not what they used to be.. I still see quite well but judging distance gets harder everyday.
I find that most airgunners like the 177 because it shoots pretty flat compared to other cal. Translation most people never take the time to learn the gun, ammo and learn the variables of what makes a good marksman.
This may sound like I am all high and mighty but I am not trying to toot my own horn. It just is what it is. My now long gone granddad taught me how to shoot and he demanded that I do it well. To be honest he took a lot of the fun out of it in a manner but I did learn. To him it was a science and he made me approach it it as such.
Today as an old fart who is disabled I shoot to relax and not to brag I am quite good. Not like I used to be but Still it is what I know and love.
Today folks are just lazy, "dang" lazy really !! Just a reality of todays world. Long ago I wanted to play guitar and I started taking lessons.. after about ten lessons the teacher asked me how much I practiced.. He did not like my respnse and told me to go home and play the radio... LOL !! Thing was I was too busy shooting.
Most here will flame me but to shoot well it must become a passion and it is work !! I had a good teacher and I miss him more with each passing day.
as clint would say "a man has got to know his limitations" some never do learn !!
Kindly
ron
In Ed's (and Mine) defense why beat your head against a wall learning to shoot like you say you do, if the shooter is satisfied with the results of shooting a flatter shooting gun. Also to be as proficient as you say you are, one must practice often and with only one gun and one pellet under several conditions. "Beware the man with one gun for he knows how to use it". If you use multiple guns, calibers and pellet types doping all of them the way you say you do becomes impossible. There's too many variables.
That's why people like me play the radio and shoot the flatest shooting air guns we can. By time trajectory becomes a problem we have no business taking a shot at a critter. Whether it's our talent or the lack of power there comes a time to know what a practical range is. I like to stretch out my shots and do ok but it still takes me a while to get it right. Probably has to do with I show up at the range with 5 different guns between 8 and 15 fpe, 2 different calibers and run two or three types of pellets through each. Then I shoot targets ANYWHERE between 25 to 110 yards. So call me a lazy radio listener but only Jimi Hendrix could play that many different guitars well. Who knows maybe you're the Jimi Hendrix of airguns. If so God bless. Me I like the radio because I know my limitations.
Thanks Ron !!! I may take myself too seriously sometimes... and I like you love playing the tunes.. GoT BB king on now !! now be safe and don't shoot your eye out kid !!
kindly
ron
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All you hero marksman should take your spring guns to a field target match sometime. That will separate the talk from the walk.
Just saying....
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All you hero marksman should take your spring guns to a field target match sometime. That will separate the talk from the walk.
Just saying....
LOL Hero marksman !! No I don't think so !! At my age and being in a chair I don't compete anymore !! It would be nice but I do shoot everyday out on the pool deck or the backyard. To me it is a disapline and I treat it as such !! You should see me point shoot with one of my 2 L.Ds. I have made much beer money... LOL
Seems a few of you guys are a bit sensitive about the topic of shooting !! I would not know why !! LOL again. Hey I am just one old fart loving what is left of my life. Get over it !!
Kindly
ron
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While the debate will likely rage for as long as Weihrauch makes guns, Kirk got it pretty much spot on. The debate is old and stale. Of course we all also know it will start right back up the minute a new or old member posts a thread on "Which gun should I buy". I get the fanaticism, I own 5 Germans...3 Weihrauch and 2 Diana's.
At the end of the day, it's the buyer's money and their choice, no matter what big or little or new or older name here on the good old GT of A tells them they just need to go fetch. You want .177? Buy 1. You want to try .20? Buy 1. You want to try .22 or .25?? By all means go buy and try them. It's your money, spend it the way you d@mned well want. Same way you do with anything else you're considering buying.
Don't like it? Most places have a 30 day return window. AoA will let you trade it towards another. GTA has a Member Classifieds Gate where you can trot off, advertise and likely find a buyer for it.
Me? I freely admit I'm not a great shooter and I'm d@mned well not even remotely good enough to shoot Field Target...lm@o. If I can park 5 under a quarter at 25 yards, I'm having a good day. Once in a very rare while, I even manage under nickel or even a dime. I do this for fun and to relax and to forget the world while I'm looking through the crosshairs.
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All you hero marksman should take your spring guns to a field target match sometime. That will separate the talk from the walk.
Just saying ....
Yeah ...
Sometimes ....... chest pounding isn't enough ;).
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All you hero marksman should take your spring guns to a field target match sometime. That will separate the talk from the walk.
Just saying ....
Yeah ...
Sometimes ....... chest pounding isn't enough ;).
Just an observation that all the best shots, also coincidentally don't have cameras. LOL
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I agree with Kirks assessment here! I also have .177cal a .22cal rifles that I truly admire as much as my .20cal rifles! I have said this before air guns are like golf clubs each have their use! Chase I'm not rich I cannot afford to buy expensive cameras to film my shooting! I do not try to boast or tell a story to you guys that is not fact! I grew up in a military family, I have had a gun in my hands since I was 4yrs old! I'm 58yrs old now and I have been shooting BB guns my whole life! as well as custom built PB's, shooting has been 1 of the biggest parts of my entire life, and I have mastered it! air guns are really no different then Powder rifles u just have to understand how they work and their limitations! Shooting to me is a 2nd nature and 1 that comes just as easy as putting on ur clothes! I can take any air gun that's good rifle? all I need to know is how fast it shoots with what pellet and its zero point with a mildot scope! and I'm good! If you guys were to look in the archives I have posted many PiX of my shooting even my hunting! to show what I have done with airguns on this forum for over a decade! ;)
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::)
All you hero marksman should take your spring guns to a field target match sometime. That will separate the talk from the walk.
Just saying ....
Yeah ...
Sometimes ....... chest pounding isn't enough ;).
Just an observation that all the best shots, also coincidentally don't have cameras. LOL
LOL...not in my case since I usually post my "braggin' groups" but there are others too! ::)
Rather normal 50 yard groups............
(https://i.imgur.com/dDepUwX.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/ZhcCsvm.jpg)
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I don't know about being an expert and I sure don't see myself as being a hero. Heck, I thought for awhile that I got that Senior Contributor ranking because of my age.
There was day when I did compete in formal pistol bullseye, 50 foot rimfire rifle and, especially, in handgun silhouette. I was fortunate enough to have an excellent coach and mentor or two.
Problem was that competing against others was just too intense and not a good match for my easy going personality. Stressed me to the point of losing sleep and almost getting ulcers. These days, even if I wanted to shoot FT, we'd have to get in the car and drive to another state. That's NOT going to happen. No thanks.
That said, I do compete with myself, sometimes ferociously, every time I shoot, but after all these years, I know when to back off, relax and not take myself too seriously. Tomorrow is another day and another shooting session. For me, it's always been about the love of shooting, period. That's what motivates me to post what I do. Everything else is a distant second. May it always be.
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AMEN, NCG that's me all the way! I'm here to toot my horn!;D
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I don't know about being an expert and I sure don't see myself as being a hero. Heck, I thought for awhile that I got that Senior Contributor ranking because of my age.
There was day when I did compete in formal pistol bullseye, 50 foot rimfire rifle and, especially, in handgun silhouette. I was fortunate enough to have an excellent coach and mentor or two.
Problem was that competing against others was just too intense and not a good match for my easy going personality. Stressed me to the point of losing sleep and almost getting ulcers. These days, even if I wanted to shoot FT, we'd have to get in the car and drive to another state. That's NOT going to happen. No thanks.
That said, I do compete with myself, sometimes ferociously, every time I shoot, but after all these years, I know when to back off, relax and not take myself too seriously. Tomorrow is another day and another shooting session. For me, it's always been about the love of shooting, period. That's what motivates me to post what I do. Everything else is a distant second. May it always be.
The heart of a true shooter here..... no ego no pride someone gets it...
anyway.. I waste my time here
thanks
kindly
ron
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Opp's my last post was stated wrong! I'm not here to toot my horn!!! I'm here to share my experiences of a life time of shooting air guns! to many beer's last night LOL!!! ::)
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Opp's my last post was stated wrong! I'm not here to toot my horn!!! I'm here to share my experiences of a life time of shooting air guns! to many beer's last night LOL!!! ::)
LOL. I thought that read wrong. And. Yeah that happens to me sometimes ;)
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.20 caliber and it's MERITS .... so we're on that subject again ?
Lol, no further comment required :-X ;D
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Opp's my last post was stated wrong! I'm not here to toot my horn!!! I'm here to share my experiences of a life time of shooting air guns! to many beer's last night LOL!!! ::)
Yoda, you dang Horn Tooter ;D.
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.20 caliber and it's MERITS .... so we're on that subject again ?
Lol, no further comment required :-X ;D
Yes Scott,
It's no wonder the merits of .20 caliber are dismissed by many self proclaimed experts and their following.
Edit to remove political content
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Ya guys and gals it happens from time to time! thanks for the forgiveness! I like beer tho! sometimes it keeps my brain from working my fingers right LOL!!! ;D
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Once again keep politics out of discussion.
3- Subjects not related to airguns should be addressed in the “Back Room” and not on the main forums. NO DISCUSSIONS OF RELIGIOUS OR POLITICAL SUBJECTS PERMITTED AT ALL.
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Once again keep politics out of discussion.
3- Subjects not related to airguns should be addressed in the “Back Room” and not on the main forums. NO DISCUSSIONS OF RELIGIOUS OR POLITICAL SUBJECTS PERMITTED AT ALL.
Yeah I know ...
But as your GTA Handle suggest -
Insanity permeates itself everywhere we turn ::).
-> Now the sign has been hung on .20 caliber pellets ;).
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Stop it gentlemen. David
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Keep the politics out.....carry on.
I edited one post and deleted the other, which had NOTHING to do with .20 caliber.