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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Big Bore AirGun Gate => Topic started by: Dan H on April 01, 2021, 08:45:01 PM
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I finally started casting with the new NOE .357 pellet mold , this mold is a WINNER ! at least out of my AEA Challenger .357 it is , first 2 shots at 50 yards were hole threw hole ;D ;D ;D as it dropped to the next mil dot shooting down it was dead on just as good as JSB maybe even a bit better out of this gun , that mold really paid off , and I probably casted enough this first session so pay for the mold back in pellets ...
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Very nice cast, Dan! A few wings, but that happens sometimes when too hot to me, also. I cast those in .30 cal., and they do well from an Impact. I also cast two different .357 cal. HP slugs for the Slayer, all of them do very well from NOE.
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Very nice cast, Dan! A few wings, but that happens sometimes when too hot to me, also. I cast those in .30 cal., and they do well from an Impact. I also cast two different .357 cal. HP slugs for the Slayer, all of them do very well from NOE.
Keith ... I always sort threw 1 by 1 inspect every pellet/ slug before they are kept in storage trays , tails on the pellets are checked by rolling them side ways , that show's you any in perfections that you need to catch ... all the ones that don't pass get melted down ,and casted again , ....pictures are of my large steel baking tray's during casting of these ...
some times if the hole in the pot gets clogged slow's the lead poor down that mess's it up to ... to cold they deform / to hot and you can see haze formed on the lead , and excess lead at the tails , it's also easy at times to get the mold over heated at times when you are going fast with heavier projectiles that require more lead also , a good example would be the .45 425g accurate mold , you just have to pause for a bit with the mold open ,
then there is the opposite if you are casting out side cold winter conditions leave the mold on a electric hot plate to keep it warm , I like casting fast to get a bunch done quickly , I just keep watching .and adjusting mold/pot temp when needed , .... I did some more today using the shortest pin's 94g is what they came out to , the longest pin's were 84g , ... I didn't have time to test chrono today maybe tomorrow ....
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Those look nice. I like the shortest pins, with my current batch of lead they typically weigh at 91-92gr. I haven't cast/shot many if the middle pin.
The tails are indeed temp sensitive. I haven't experienced much finning though.
An interesting note - frosted/hazed pellets seem to shoot just fine, whereas if the tails aren't perfect they will indeed corkscrew. I typically shoot these as-cast at 50-75 yards, in the 600-800fps range out of my little 12" barreled Mrod based carbine. Mostly spinners and plates. For these purposes 1-2"groups are good enough. Weighing and sorting will easily keep groups under 1" at this distance and velocity range. I only wish this mold had MP style pins.....
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Mike ... you are right if they are a bit frosted as long as the shape is perfect they work just fine , when you get them casting with a even shine on them ,and perfect in shape you know you are in the sweet spot for pot/mold temp ...
my game plan now is geared to collecting molds / sizing die's for every cal ,... so I NO longer buy pellets or slugs , just buy lead ,and make my own ;D ;D ;)
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I didn't see a .357 mold is this the one you are casting ?
(https://noebulletmolds.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/356-84-RF_CC5_HB_Sketch.jpg)
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Yep, that is the NOE .35 cal pellet.... They weigh about 80, 85 and 90 gr. with the 3 different length pins.... With a flat base they are 99 gr. but i couldn't get them to shoot....
Bob
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Yep, that is the NOE .35 cal pellet.... They weigh about 80, 85 and 90 gr. with the 3 different length pins.... With a flat base they are 99 gr. but i couldn't get them to shoot....
Bob
Bob I have been buying up NOE mold's like crazy .22 threw .357 most of them you have tested , and I have one off these coming in on Monday ... .359-88-RF-S2 2 Cavity RG2 PBy bullet mold .... going to size it down to .357 from what I have seen so far that is the size to go with ... I remember you posting some very good results with this one ,and it really looks like it could be a good match for the Challenger ....
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/355-9mm/359-88-rf-s2/359-88-rf-s2-rg2-cavity-pb/
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Yep, that is the NOE .35 cal pellet.... They weigh about 80, 85 and 90 gr. with the 3 different length pins.... With a flat base they are 99 gr. but i couldn't get them to shoot....
Bob
Bob I have been buying up NOE mold's like crazy .22 threw .357 most of them you have tested , and I have one off these coming in on Monday ... .359-88-RF-S2 2 Cavity RG2 PBy bullet mold .... going to size it down to .357 from what I have seen so far that is the size to go with ... I remember you posting some very good results with this one ,and it really looks like it could be a good match for the Challenger ....
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/355-9mm/359-88-rf-s2/359-88-rf-s2-rg2-cavity-pb/
I have the same mold that is linked here, have not had a chance to test them at longer ranges yet, but thought they would be a flat shooting varmint slug out of my Recluse.
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James - looks like you and I have some testing to do on this slug , I bet it will do really good in your gun ....
I tested the heavy weight pellet short pin casted chronoed at about 3500 psi 960 fps 94 g casted with rotometals lead from what my scale says = 192.3 FPE ...shooting from 960fps to the 8th shot at 830 fps 7 shots above 860 fps ... so to me this looks pretty darn good stock out of the box ,and i had not much trouble hitting a 1 inch metal spinner at 50 yards ! ;D ;D if the new NOE slug performs like this I will be very happy= cross my fingers ;)
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I have been having very good results with the LEE Mold 356-102-1R 380 ACP 9mm 38 Super 357 Magnum #90305. Drops pure lead slugs at an average of 104 gr. and fits nicely in the Challenger mag. There have been plenty of them on eBay lately. I picked up 2 of them and that seems like it is going to be my main projectile since it also swages nicely to semiwadcutter.
However I have not had the opportunity to try it out at 100 yards.
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The .359-88-RF-S2 in HP is an excellent slug.... comes in at about 83 gr. and very accurate in the 26" twist TJ's barrel....
Bob
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I didn't see a .357 mold is this the one you are casting ?
(https://noebulletmolds.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/356-84-RF_CC5_HB_Sketch.jpg)
Yes ... it's sized .356 .... Wayne if you pick one of the AEA Challengers .357's up , this one shoots very good ! ;D these hit hard in the 190fpe range ...
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The .359-88-RF-S2 in HP is an excellent slug.... comes in at about 83 gr. and very accurate in the 26" twist TJ's barrel....
Bob
It looks pretty accurate in this chart you put up in this thread , that is a good comparison chart ....
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=182986.msg156086523#msg156086523 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=182986.msg156086523#msg156086523)
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The NOE 359-88-RF-S2 is very similar to the 88gr HP from GT bullets. I believe GT Bullets uses this mold from MP molds.
https://www.mp-molds.com/product/358-640-hollow-point-plain-base-4cavity-mold/ (https://www.mp-molds.com/product/358-640-hollow-point-plain-base-4cavity-mold/)
I have the gas check version of the MP 358-640. I haven't used it much yet so I am unsure if the gas check will create any problems with such a short bullet. If so, I believe I can send it to Eric and have the gas check eliminated....
Combining TJ's 1:26 and the 88gr from GT bullets yields very nice results.
(https://i.imgur.com/cH8EFzJ.jpg)
915fps at the muzzle, shot into gallon jugs at 60 yards. The little 88gr stops in the second jug.
(https://i.imgur.com/W1xNQq6.jpg)
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That MP performs pretty good ;D
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Yep, that noe 88g that comes out 84g with hp mold service installed instead of the ones that came with it have been lights out in my Windy City 9mm , sense turned to a .30 and now lights out in my jäger 9mm. Accurate enough to bust ground squirrels repeatedly well past 170 yards. 50yRds ragged hole if I do my part all around fantastic mold and design , just don’t like noe’s hp system🙀
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Yep, that noe 88g that comes out 84g with hp mold service installed instead of the ones that came with it have been lights out in my Windy City 9mm , sense turned to a .30 and now lights out in my jäger 9mm. Accurate enough to bust ground squirrels repeatedly well past 170 yards. 50yRds ragged hole if I do my part all around fantastic mold and design , just don’t like noe’s hp system
How fast do they fly out of your Slayer, if you shoot them out of the Slayer? I've only shot mine with two different ~ 152gr molds from NOE.
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Dan I finally figured out why I wasn't getting my 1K discount from NOE, what I need to do now is log in to NOE with the original name I had when I first ordered from NOE. It don't work on the forum but I can use a later login name for that. I just ordered another mold this morning which is a slug mold however they're out of the .356 bushing right now so I'll have to wait on that.
Here's what I ordered this morning for a slug mold:
(https://noebulletmolds.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/358-124-HP_PB_R4_Sketch.jpg)
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Here's what I ordered this morning for a slug mold:
(https://noebulletmolds.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/358-124-HP_PB_R4_Sketch.jpg)
Wayne, I have been looking at this one so I will have to wait to see now this works in your new Challenger.
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looks too long. 12 mm or .475 inch is about the max length for the mag
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looks too long. 12 mm or .475 inch is about the max length for the mag
I'm not sure about the Challenger but my .357 AEA Terminator magazine will accept a MAX .603 (15.2mm) length slug.
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AEA .357 Challenger magazine limitations
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=185754.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=185754.0)
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AEA .357 Challenger magazine limitations
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=185754.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=185754.0)
Thanks, good information. I really like the .357's. My REX is light and fun to shoot but my AEA Terminator is a great gun but VERY heavy to carry. The Challenger with the Magazine
seem like a way to go. I only wished that it would accept a longer heavier slug. Maybe some mods are instore or what is the Maximum slug length using a single shot tray, if available?
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Dan I finally figured out why I wasn't getting my 1K discount from NOE, what I need to do now is log in to NOE with the original name I had when I first ordered from NOE. It don't work on the forum but I can use a later login name for that. I just ordered another mold this morning which is a slug mold however they're out of the .356 bushing right now so I'll have to wait on that.
Here's what I ordered this morning for a slug mold:
(https://noebulletmolds.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/358-124-HP_PB_R4_Sketch.jpg)
Wayne that slug is a bit long for the mag in the challenger ... you could single shot load it ... the .359 88 will fit ...
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Dan I'll have to pick of one of those single shot trays for it.
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The length limitation of the magazine is one of the reasons I use the LEE 356-102-1R which drops slugs about 105 grains that fit into the mag like it was made for them.
Since I have 2 mags it is fairly easy to use them as SSTs if I want to swage something heavier. Load up 1 heavy in each mag, then I have 2 shots available before I need to load a heavy into each mag again. Honestly though I just haven't needed any more weight so far than the 105 gr.
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The length limitation of the magazine is one of the reasons I use the LEE 356-102-1R which drops slugs about 105 grains that fit into the mag like it was made for them.
Since I have 2 mags it is fairly easy to use them as SSTs if I want to swage something heavier. Load up 1 heavy in each mag, then I have 2 shots available before I need to load a heavy into each mag again. Honestly though I just haven't needed any more weight so far than the 105 gr.
How accurate are those ?
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I ordered one of those Lee molds too from ebay.
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How accurate are those ?
The guy on YouTube who uses them and has videos of him testing them with his Challenger is shooting hole in hole but I have no idea the distance. I am waiting on new scope rings to come Wednesday because mine are too high with the dovetail to picatinny adapter so I haven't shot it further than 30 yards. Hopefully this weekend I will get the chance to get it sighted in good with the new rings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l4suzQpCLw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l4suzQpCLw)
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Jared you guys in Texas do really need a gun that'll do accurate long range shooting, here in Michigan it's not really an issue so much. Most deer that I've shot were 20-30 yards away, I figure those slugs would be good for cutting through the brush because here many times you have some brush to contend with. I'll use harder lead so they'll have plenty of penetration. I talked with Al on the phone again (NOE) and he said they should have the .356 body bushing back in stock again. That NOE slug mold that I have coming the slugs will be too long for the magazine but one at a time is possible and being they're hollow points the expansion will make all that much difference even casting them with harder lead. I did get my gun at about 5PM and I've got the 3-12X Centerpoint scope mounted on it and I'll definitely be getting out with it in the morning early.
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OK I just ordered that lee 102 g , I was supposed to buy a .30 bullet mold for my bull pup challenger 32 barrel ;D ;D still trying to make my mind up on that one .. ::)
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Dan that guy that's selling those on ebay has sold a lot of them. They are about $10 more than what Lee gets for them but it was the only place I could find them available so I went for it. The thing that's nice about those slugs is they'll work in the magazine good, it would be nice if they made them with the hollow point pins but they don't. I was looking at the BBT's on NOE's site and they're too long, most all the slug molds that NOE has are out of stock, man I see where Al's coming from saying he's been swamp with work, there's only so much a person can do and I'm sure that he probably spends a lot of his time on the phone during the day too.
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I did some more casting today with the new Lee mold .356 102 g 1R they started out at .354 so I added some heat to the melting pot, and the mold , and then they filled out to .356 I had the heat up to where it was just starting to haze/frost the bullets and that was about perfect with roto metels close to pure lead that I use ....
shots were 50 yards 3300 psi first 2 top right made 1 big hole 3rd shot I moved over to the left 1 circle , and I didn't get to shoot more because the neighbor decided to cut the big field that is behind my back stop so I decided to stop for now ... I will test more in the morning , and see what I get out of this bullet so far ...
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Dan what do you mean close to pure lead ??? did you add tin to them or something?
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Dan what do you mean close to pure lead ??? did you add tin to them or something?
No I did not add to the roto metals lead , I was just meaning as close to pure lead as they make it in that form with nothing else added ...
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I've got another mold coming in the mail today, not sure if it's the long or short slug that I ordered from NOE but when it gets here I'll post what it is.
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I like using a 1 to 40 lead (2.5% tin) for the larger caliber. It's still soft enough to expand but can hold up better through the choke (IMO) when shooting over 200 FPE and when using larger chunks of lead. At least this has worked well in my Slayer cast pushing 300 FPE. The tin allows for better fill out as well when casting the larger projectiles.
1 to 40 Bullet Alloy Ingot- 5 pounds (97.5%-lead, 2.5% tin) - RotoMetals (https://www.rotometals.com/1-to-40-bullet-alloy-ingot-5-pounds-97-5-lead-2-5-tin/)
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The NOE pellets cast using pure lead shoot extremely well in my AEA .357 so I'm going to try staying away from alloy's simply because at the temps that I'm casting when I add tin I start getting whiskers with the alloy. I realize a good cure for that would be to change the temperature of my furnace however when casting .22 & .25 my results are much better with pure lead than a tin mix and the size that the mold is designed to output is essentially more accurate as well. I really should pick me up another pot that has temp control that way I can do both without having to worry about whiskers with the tin from one pot whereas I can have the other pot that has pure lead in it. I really do not like the idea of mixing them up and having to dump the pot to go back and forth.
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The best deal is to order the around 60lbs lead ingot from roto metals $109 since it is over $ 99 you get the free priority shipping , other wise from roto metals you will pay about double that price or more for the smaller stuff or mixed ... I need to order 2 more - I am down to a half ingot left ... good to have some in reserve
https://www.rotometals.com/whole-lead-pig-ingot-57-62-pounds-99-9/ (https://www.rotometals.com/whole-lead-pig-ingot-57-62-pounds-99-9/)
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The best deal is to order the around 60lbs lead ingot from roto metals $109 since it is over $ 99 you get the free priority shipping , other wise from roto metals you will pay about double that price or more for the smaller stuff or mixed ... I need to order 2 more - I am down to a half ingot left ... good to have some in reserve
https://www.rotometals.com/whole-lead-pig-ingot-57-62-pounds-99-9/ (https://www.rotometals.com/whole-lead-pig-ingot-57-62-pounds-99-9/)
I just order enough 5lb bars for free shipping. It was 35 lbs. the last time I ordered for free shipping. It also helped the USPS driver get it into the mailbox, lol.
I think casting the much larger slugs is a little different than when casting for the smaller pellets...Just my thoughts though. I have 100 lbs. of pure X-ray room sheet lead for casting the smaller projectiles and agree they benefit more with pure lead cast as I have tried both ways. Anyways, whatever works best for one is the best route one should take. I'm no expert, so I have to stay open to other ideas.
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Dan it says no free shipping in red letters for the whole ingot, the split pig ingot has always been free freight and that's what I'd order if I did. I just started on my second half of the split pig ingot myself. I'll probably wait this I have a quarter ingot left before I order probably. The split pig ingots last me a very long time.
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Dan it says no free shipping in red letters for the whole ingot, the split pig ingot has always been free freight and that's what I'd order if I did. I just started on my second half of the split pig ingot myself. I'll probably wait this I have a quarter ingot left before I order probably. The split pig ingots last me a very long time.
Oh well I just looked at the free shipping for $99 at the top ... ;D ;D ;D ,and now that you mentioned it I think I remember last time it was that way ,and I did get the one cut in half so it was cheaper actually that way, and that was the first ingot I ordered from them .... I had a bunch of lead from sheets a guy melted down in Oregon that came from a hospital.... I wish I could get that same stuff again it was half of this price at 200 bucks for 200lbs of soft perfect for casting lead ...
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Ok - more results .... The NOE pellet mold is shooting fantastic at 50 yards first pic upper 2 holes the bigger one has 3 shots in it ,and 1 lower shot - that I think I messed up on ::)the upper 2 holes were with larger pin's lighter pellet... also there are no holes in the wood on that pic due to the fact I split the board I was shooting in to in half ! so i grabed a new board to finish it off with ..... the lower 2 holes were 3 shots 2 in one hole , and that was with short pin heavy pellet ...
the lower pic side by side holes are the NOE .359 88 HP dropped out of the mold no sizing done ,and I believe that shoots better than the sized down to .357 same bullet that I tried also , you can feel the un sized bullet more chambering engaging with the rifling .... I think these small bullets with small area that rides on the rifling like to be a bit maybe over sized to help ....
I also noticed the pellets chamber /engage with rifling better than the sized .357 bullet does ... The Lee mold 102 g is just to small dropped out of the mold at .356 it was all over the place , .... so from what I see so far if you don't feel the projectile seat in to the rifling it will not be accurate
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Dan measure the diameter of the 359 slug because the 356 slugs I cast were only .354 probably due to the fact both probably call for wheelweight lead and aren't as large in diameter as what they're supposed to be, heck if you're getting those kind of results I might not even bother trying to size them, just use them like they drop when I get the mold.
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Dan measure the diameter of the 359 slug because the 356 slugs I cast were only .354 probably due to the fact both probably call for wheelweight lead and aren't as large in diameter as what they're supposed to be, heck if you're getting those kind of results I might not even bother trying to size them, just use them like they drop when I get the mold.
Yes they drop .359 the NOE 88 HP do with roto metals pure lead ... they engage/chamber really good you can feel it press in ...
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I'll be heading out in the woods with mine in the morning along with the tank for refilling because I plan on doing a little shooting at pin up targets with it. The last time that I was out with it I had to readjust the scope back from fooling around with the undersized Lee slugs and mainly I'll be checking the poi to make sure it's right where I want it. It should be very close right where it is but I'd like to make sure I can get really close to a bullseye at 40 yards with pellets.