GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: lizzie on September 22, 2011, 11:56:11 PM
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I know that most of you guys already know this, but we may have some members who aren't familiar with the concept. I am relatively new to shooting, and I know leila is more of a novice than I.
When I started shooting my AM77 last summer, someone told me to use small targets to improve my skills, so I started using beer bottle caps suspended from wire, hanging from one of those garden stakes that serves as a plant hanger. I found it very useful for improving my aim and concentration, rather than using the larger targets.
Today, I was so excited when I took the FWB out to the bench. I use the ShootNC targets, and they come with little stick-on dots that are about the size of a penny or so. I stuck a few of them up, and with the first shot I hit it. ;D
I know that to most of you this is probably no big deal. To me, it was phenomenal!
So for anyone here who is new, or is having trouble with accuracy which is based on shooting skills, and not the gun itself, I recommend following the aim small, miss small approach. I really think, based on my own experience over the past year, that it helps. :)
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Very effective training advice Lizzie. You hit on the very foundation of this forum,...passing on and sharing information and shared experiences. Great job.
Brett
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Thanks Brett :)
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Brett's right, Lizzie. You hit on one of the best secrets of shooting well. I never really began to improve my shooting until I learned to "Aim small."
For a lot of fun, check out some dime-sized targets.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,17461.0.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,17461.0.html)
joe
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Sound advice Lizzie.
Richard
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Yes very sound advice.
Whenever I get fancy with the targets (drawing animal outlines, odd shapes) I tend to see shot-gun patterns. When I make nice targets with CD centers as dots...I get quarter sized holes or patches (unless i'm just having an off day, then its shot-gun pattern).
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How about "Aim big, Don't miss." LOL I'm just playing...
As I mentioned on the other thread, I carry around my orange sharpie when I shoot and make dots as targets to shoot at... Or if I'm too lazy to get the sharpie, I shoot a pellet and make a hole and then I try to do one hole shots... A small swinging grape on a noose is always fun because they splatter...
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....paint balls on golf tees @50-75 yards make for a fun, challenging game.... so do peppermints,jawbreakers,smarties,and most all hard candies...
once i learned to aim at a tiny dot (can barely see it through the scope) i got good, now i can very easily hit 135yd. spinners 10/10 times. its all aboout practice and learning your gun.
@mav72.............how bout aim small never miss...just fun...anyone else like shooting flies?
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....paint balls on golf tees @50-75 yards make for a fun, challenging game.... so do peppermints,jawbreakers,smarties,and most all hard candies...
once i learned to aim at a tiny dot (can barely see it through the scope) i got good, now i can very easily hit 135yd. spinners 10/10 times. its all aboout practice and learning your gun.
@mav72.............how bout aim small never miss...just fun...anyone else like shooting flies?
Haha awww man... I used to shoot flies all the time... There's so many of them you never run out of targets... My eyes don't work as good as they used to so I'd need to get myself a stronger scope to do that nowadays... I could barely see a pellet hole at 10 meters using open sights... I'm always walking up to see where it hit... It get's annoying...
How about weed waking in the garden with a pellet gun? I used to do that too... My nephew always brings up how I used to be able to dissect a plant with my scoped 766... I once got in trouble because I shot down one of my dads chili plants, just to see if I could do it... I didn't think it'd fall over like that... Boy he was perturbed...
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How about "Aim big, Don't miss." LOL I'm just playing...
As I mentioned on the other thread, I carry around my orange sharpie when I shoot and make dots as targets to shoot at... Or if I'm too lazy to get the sharpie, I shoot a pellet and make a hole and then I try to do one hole shots... A small swinging grape on a noose is always fun because they splatter...
Hah- it's likely to be a looong time before I can do that. :D
(but I keep trying)
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True words lizzie! ( the first post ;) )
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"I know that to most of you this is probably no big deal. To me, it was phenomenal!"
Lizzie,
No, that is a BIG DEAL! The eye/sight picture and aim point relationship is huge. Next, try the 10 meter NRA air-pistol targets, those will challenge anybody! (tiny, tiny, tiny)
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I was really surprised how true this turned out to be.
I'd heard the phrase 'aim small, miss small' a couple of years ago.
At the time at 30metres I was using a standard rapid fire pistol target with my 631 Slavia.
I followed the advice of my friend and started using (at 30m) the ISSF 10m Air Rifle Target. I was amazed how much smaller my groups became.
The only thing I can figure is that there is some part of the brain that, when it sees the larger target, just allows ones whole shooting procedure to 'open up'.
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....paint balls on golf tees @50-75 yards make for a fun, challenging game.... so do peppermints,jawbreakers,smarties,and most all hard candies...
once i learned to aim at a tiny dot (can barely see it through the scope) i got good, now i can very easily hit 135yd. spinners 10/10 times. its all aboout practice and learning your gun.
@mav72.............how bout aim small never miss...just fun...anyone else like shooting flies?
Haha awww man... I used to shoot flies all the time... There's so many of them you never run out of targets... My eyes don't work as good as they used to so I'd need to get myself a stronger scope to do that nowadays... I could barely see a pellet hole at 10 meters using open sights... I'm always walking up to see where it hit... It get's annoying...
How about weed waking in the garden with a pellet gun? I used to do that too... My nephew always brings up how I used to be able to dissect a plant with my scoped 766... I once got in trouble because I shot down one of my dads chili plants, just to see if I could do it... I didn't think it'd fall over like that... Boy he was perturbed...
That is why I keep spoting scope close by. I have the same problem. If using less than 9X can not see holes. On my 800 mag have only 2X so use spoting scope alot when shooting this.
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I can't wait to try those dime targets. And I'm thinking a bag of paibt balls will be in my near future.
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Thank you Lizzie! I started my smaller stick-on targets this morning and I do like them much more than the bigger ones. What I noticed is that I am pretty good at 10 feet with my 1377, but when I moved back to 20 feet I was all over the place again... maybe with practice. There is no way I would hit a fly at 10 feet that's for sure... lol, maybe if I would add a scope. I also got better without peep sight as well. After good target shooting in the basement, I tried to hit a starling this morning too, but it was about 20/25 feet in the grass and all I did was just scared it away.
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This is a very good training technique, it forces you to shoot better. I know if I aim at a pen standing on end, I'll group my shots tighter then aiming at the 1" spinner at the same distance.
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That is why I keep spoting scope close by. I have the same problem. If using less than 9X can not see holes. On my 800 mag have only 2X so use spoting scope alot when shooting this.
I keep a pair of 8x binocs at the bench, because I get tired (bored) with walking back and forth to the target, lol.
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The only thing I can figure is that there is some part of the brain that, when it sees the larger target, just allows ones whole shooting procedure to 'open up'.
I suspect that is exactly the case. I also think that focusing on a small point aids concentration.
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Thank you Lizzie! I started my smaller stick-on targets this morning and I do like them much more than the bigger ones. What I noticed is that I am pretty good at 10 feet with my 1377, but when I moved back to 20 feet I was all over the place again... maybe with practice.
Definitely with practice. And more practice. :D
Also, the practice will help you develop consistency, one of the keys to success in shooting. Try to be aware of every little detail when you are shooting- how you sit or stand, the angle of your body in relation to the gun, using the same point on your finger to pull the trigger, resting your cheek in the same place. These all will help improve your skills.
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I am probably wrong but If you concentrate on the center bullseye or where one wants to hit it, I would not think the rest of the target would affect your perception.
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I am probably wrong but If you concentrate on the center bullseye or where one wants to hit it, I would not think the rest of the target would affect your perception.
Maybe it doesn't hold true for some people. I don't think it affects perception, but I think it causes some type of response which allows a more singled-in focus. Iow, if I have a target that is 5" across, with a red bullseye in the center, I can aim at the bullseye, but subconsciously, I know that I have a full five inch circle to play with. Otoh, if I have a 1" diameter bottle cap suspended, subconsciously I know that I have to hit within an inch.
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I can understand how that would work but when I aim in my mind the center of the target or the last hole I hit is all I concentrate on. I do not even see the rest of the target only a spot as large as a pellet hole will be.
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Lizzie, I to us it. Shooting today @ 30-50yds till wind really kicked up. So went to my 11yd inside target setup. Got bored real quick. All my targets have 1/4" dia. bulls, with a 1/2" ring. So I started shooting wood match sticks 3/32" wide, and then went to tooth picks that are 1/16" wide. Try it. It is fun. I did it with my RX2,ProSport, and my Blue Streak. They all did good at it.
gman
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Matchsticks. :o
Thanks for the idea- I'll try it. ;D
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of course for anyof this to work, you need to have your scope ZERO'D in perfectly.
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of course for anyof this to work, you need to have your scope ZERO'D in perfectly.
ya but thats the easy part, that trick is to focus on only what you want to hit,such as a tiny imperfection in the paper where the color is darker. then block out the surrounding area in your head and slowly pullthe trigger straight back.
i think the reason is there is less to aim at so you could be more consistent with your aim point,
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aim small, miss small, words to live by! Try lighting matches, it is a riot!
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Great post Lizzie! Not to hack the thread, but some of the folks might also be able to tighten up their groups by keeping both eyes open when shooting. It's something I picked up by accident years ago while shooting action videos. A little difficult to master at first, but once you get used to it, it becomes second nature. The benefits are that you're not tensing your face, you can get "on target" much faster(particularly at longer distances) and it helps to stay on target during the follow-through.
pv
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Lizzie, congrats on the becoming a moderator.
Yes, aim small, miss small is the second best way to hit your target. In boot camp, I was told the best way to hit your target was to pour a lot of lead down range.
My long range (50+ yards) targets are half to one inch in size. For closer work, I like smaller targets, like match heads or whole grains of deer corn.
Still waiting for the fully automatic, 1000 round, belt fed BB/pellet gun to come out. 8) What’s taking so long?
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That's called "Spray and Pray" ;D
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when I was on the trap team in highschool there was a shooting coach that was starting 2nd graders out with red riders shooting aspirins out of the air, his thought was the small targets became normal to them so bigger targets were easy.
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That's a bit different. I believe they call it "instinctive shooting", promoted by a fellow back in the 60's. He would take a group of every day people, give them BB guns and teach them to concentrate on the target, not the sights. They ended up hitting aspirins tossed into the air. The Army adopted the program as part of their training for troops in Viet Nam. This guy (or someone schooled by him) decided to show what his style of shooting could do. He took a sixteen year old girl with absolutely no shooting experience, started her with a BB gun, moved up to shooting clays with a 20 gauge from within a barn and then entered her in the Nationals. She placed pretty high. Churchill, who made those short double barreled shotguns back in the 20's/30's, promoted drawing your bead on part of the bird while wing shooting. He theorized that aiming at the whole bird was what caused many misses. And that guy could really shoot.
I should think that using a small target (or one matched to your sights and vision) is better than a large one since it is easier to optically determine the aim point. With a scope, this is a bit easier but can also have a slight downside in that you might be tempted to crank it up to eleven to find that spot within a spot. Great for the bench but not always so good offhand.
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That's a bit different. I believe they call it "instinctive shooting", promoted by a fellow back in the 60's.
Would that be Lucky McDaniel you are speaking of?
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Lizzie just another thought for you while you are learning about target shooting, an it's been debated for a long time, but most of us have came to the conclusion that about 80% of acc. come's from trigger "break", even to the point of being able to "call" your shot once it's released, with the smaller target you are speaking of it to me boil's down to you are breaking the trigger better because you just have less to "see" or time, so you are releasing it in a more precise time frame, the "trigger" control is the biggest an the last thing to be mastered before becoming a GREAT shot an not just a shooter.
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Lizzie just another thought for you while you are learning about target shooting, an it's been debated for a long time, but most of us have came to the conclusion that about 80% of acc. come's from trigger "break", even to the point of being able to "call" your shot once it's released, with the smaller target you are speaking of it to me boil's down to you are breaking the trigger better because you just have less to "see" or time, so you are releasing it in a more precise time frame, the "trigger" control is the biggest an the last thing to be mastered before becoming a GREAT shot an not just a shooter.
The trigger is something I am finding myself working dilligently on. Consistent cheekrest and hold is improving well, but the trigger will take some time.
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Lizzie, congrats on the becoming a moderator.
Yes, aim small, miss small is the second best way to hit your target. In boot camp, I was told the best way to hit your target was to pour a lot of lead down range.
My long range (50+ yards) targets are half to one inch in size. For closer work, I like smaller targets, like match heads or whole grains of deer corn.
Still waiting for the fully automatic, 1000 round, belt fed BB/pellet gun to come out. 8) What’s taking so long?
Thanks!
Pouring lead is something that I do alot of, lol.
A recent issue of Shotgun News had an article about a fully-auto pellet gun. :D
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Lizzie, congrats on the becoming a moderator.
Yes, aim small, miss small is the second best way to hit your target. In boot camp, I was told the best way to hit your target was to pour a lot of lead down range.
My long range (50+ yards) targets are half to one inch in size. For closer work, I like smaller targets, like match heads or whole grains of deer corn.
Still waiting for the fully automatic, 1000 round, belt fed BB/pellet gun to come out. 8) What’s taking so long?
Thanks!
Pouring lead is something that I do alot of, lol.
A recent issue of Shotgun News had an article about a fully-auto pellet gun. :D
you mean one like this? http://air-ordnance.com/ (http://air-ordnance.com/)
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It's in the Sept 20, 2011 issue. SMG 22 from Air Ordinance, pages 22-28. :D
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there is video :D
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you mean one like this? http://air-ordnance.com/ (http://air-ordnance.com/)
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Yes, I have seen the SMG 22 before. I will buy one if someone would supply me with the lead. One tin (500 count) of pellets in about 40 seconds.
Yep, that's just what I need, like another hole in my head. ;)
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:D :D
I'll stick with my springers. ;)
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I like the bb machine guns better, and alot cheaper to shoot many round with...
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I found the Aim small advice really helped me too.
Next is to try some of the GTA Shooting Matches.
The bi-monthly, or so, matches give me an extra kick in the... to practice, and
also help to document small improvement, or not, over time.
Today is the deadline for current matches. try 'em, they are fun.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/board,66.0.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/board,66.0.html)
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I like the bb machine guns better, and alot cheaper to shoot many round with...
WOW, this brings back memories. Quick story, well maybe not quick but here it is.
When I was younger, I live in AL, and we used our powder burners on a daily basis. And we had a couple airguns, but good luck getting me to use one, when I had MY Anshutz .22, and many other guns available. Anyway, My brother and I were both Boy Scouts, and had a subscription to Boy’s Life magazine. In the back you could order Blo-Guns, Sea monkeys, plans for go-karts, AND a fully automatic BB gun. So in the beginning of Summer vaction we ordered the BB gun. We had saved our money for a month or so and sent off for it. 6-8 weeks for processing is like a prison sentence to a 10 and 13 year old. Before we got the gun, we had to keep saving money because we needed BB’s and Freon. Yeah it ran off the cans of Freon you used to be able to buy at the auto parts store. We rode the ATCs into town on day and bought about 30,000 copperhead BB’s. The next week we went in and bought 5 cans of Freon. The store manager asked why 2 kids needed 5 cans of Freon, and without blinking my brother said that our dad was fixing the cars, and had sent us. So we walked out with a ton of Freon. So with all of our BB’s and Freon hidden, we waited, and waited and waited. We would run to the mailbox when the mail arrived, we would ask if anything had come for us. For 2 months NOTHING. 2 more weeks..NOTHING. We had 2 weeks before school started again, and we still had not received our gun. We were getting desperate. Another week passed. We went back to school shopping, had our new clothes, all our supplies were set up in our book bags. We were despondent to say the least. So the last weekend before the first day of school, and my dad calls my brother and I in for a talk. We had been good, so we figured no trouble, but something seemed off. This is when he asked us Why we needed 5 cans of Freon. I guess the auto parts manager had called my dad, to seeif all the repairs had gone well. Needless to say, we were caught. Not only were we caught, but we had been caught for more than a month. While we tried to figure out our story, on the spot, My dad brought a box out from behind the desk. Our gun had arrived the same day the auto parts guy called my dad. Well he let us sweat it out for the whole summer, only to tell us that because we had lied to the Auto Parts guy, that he would be keeping the gun for himself, and that if we performed well in school for the 1st 6 weeks, he would let us shoot it. Yeah my dad did not take to lying very well. So 6 more weeks go by and we both did well. We screwed on the can of Freon onto the gun, and dumped a 1000 BB tube of copperheads in the hopper. My brother aimed at a small paper target we had set out about 30 feet. Well he emptied the hopper, in about 35 seconds. This thing spit BB’s at a rate that surprised my dad. However, only about 20 of them hit the target. LOL, no rifling in the barrel, and fast action left us with a very inconsistent very weak BB Sprayer. But all was not lost, turns out we used it to chase chickens around the yard, you could hit a chicken at 10 feet and the BB would bounce off. We used our BB’s and our Freon and never picked the gun up again.
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:D :D :D
Great story!
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i take scrap sheets of paper and draw lines about 1 inch apart and shoot to split the line a couple of pages of shooting a vertical line and you would be surprised how small u miss and how easy it becomes to split the line then work on horizontal lines and repeat process. than when you sight on a rat they look as big as an elephant.
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definitely true. lizzie i like to shoot the small shoot n c dots as well. i am always happy to hit one. ;D
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Lizzie, congrats on the becoming a moderator.
Yes, aim small, miss small is the second best way to hit your target. In boot camp, I was told the best way to hit your target was to pour a lot of lead down range.
My long range (50+ yards) targets are half to one inch in size. For closer work, I like smaller targets, like match heads or whole grains of deer corn.
Still waiting for the fully automatic, 1000 round, belt fed BB/pellet gun to come out. 8) What’s taking so long?
Go here and buy a SMG .22 http://modernsurvivalonline.com/belt-fed-22-caliber-full-auto-pellet-gun-cool/ (http://modernsurvivalonline.com/belt-fed-22-caliber-full-auto-pellet-gun-cool/)
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Been meaning to share this with you but just have not had the time. Really appreciated this thread and the concept. After reading it last week and kicking it around in my head it really got me to thinking. Have a 16 year old son whom we relocated from Metro Atlanta to the small town life of Jasper, TN. My ex just couldn't seem to keep up with what was going on with him at school and being a state away and seeing him every other weekend was just not enough to for me to be effective either. Grades were flipping terrible and with two years of high shcool left we felt it our only option. The amount of social activity here versus there is, well lets say, night and day. As a result the two of us have been breaking out the AG's every chance we get and practicing on paper in anticipation of the Starling's return. He has only the limited amount of basic firearms training I have given him and yet is quite a fine marksman. Then I read this thread...
Eric came home from school last Friday afternoon and after going over the school day and the daily chores I asked if he wanted to try something a little different for target practice. I explained the Aim small, miss small idea and suggested we try paint balls on golf tee's in the back yard. I finished up my work and he eagerly headed out to set up the course. He came up with 6 stations of two targets each staggered at 15 to 35 yrds. He was shooting the XL 1100 and I the Whisper. I was to go 1st and we were going to alternate from there, each having to clear one target from each station. Hitting the tee and not breaking the ball would count as a miss. From previous sessions I knew the Gammo was a little off right but I had decided to try with it anyway. Should have known better. I miss, he is up, nothing but paint. I miss again, he is on the next station and does it again, perfect. I take one more shot at the 15 yarder, another miss, and concede that we will both shoot the XL. He on the other hand places his next shot finds the mark again. 3 for 3. Long story short, I started hitting as well with the XL, not nearly as often as he did. He took 8 shots and cleared all 6 of his targets without hitting one tee.
We continued shooting the course with scoring variations and he continued to impress. WE ahd a ball.
I am so glad to have him leaving with us now and he is doing amazing at his new school.
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great news. I am trying to get my wayward sould cousin into AGs He loves killing rats, but i would him to concentrate a bit more on the whole picture.
I was surprised the first time someone put a laying card up with just the edge facing us and we cut it in half on the 3rd shot.
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Been meaning to share this with you but just have not had the time. Really appreciated this thread and the concept. After reading it last week and kicking it around in my head it really got me to thinking. Have a 16 year old son whom we relocated from Metro Atlanta to the small town life of Jasper, TN. My ex just couldn't seem to keep up with what was going on with him at school and being a state away and seeing him every other weekend was just not enough to for me to be effective either. Grades were flipping terrible and with two years of high shcool left we felt it our only option. The amount of social activity here versus there is, well lets say, night and day. As a result the two of us have been breaking out the AG's every chance we get and practicing on paper in anticipation of the Starling's return. He has only the limited amount of basic firearms training I have given him and yet is quite a fine marksman. Then I read this thread...
Eric came home from school last Friday afternoon and after going over the school day and the daily chores I asked if he wanted to try something a little different for target practice. I explained the Aim small, miss small idea and suggested we try paint balls on golf tee's in the back yard. I finished up my work and he eagerly headed out to set up the course. He came up with 6 stations of two targets each staggered at 15 to 35 yrds. He was shooting the XL 1100 and I the Whisper. I was to go 1st and we were going to alternate from there, each having to clear one target from each station. Hitting the tee and not breaking the ball would count as a miss. From previous sessions I knew the Gammo was a little off right but I had decided to try with it anyway. Should have known better. I miss, he is up, nothing but paint. I miss again, he is on the next station and does it again, perfect. I take one more shot at the 15 yarder, another miss, and concede that we will both shoot the XL. He on the other hand places his next shot finds the mark again. 3 for 3. Long story short, I started hitting as well with the XL, not nearly as often as he did. He took 8 shots and cleared all 6 of his targets without hitting one tee.
We continued shooting the course with scoring variations and he continued to impress. WE ahd a ball.
I am so glad to have him leaving with us now and he is doing amazing at his new school.
Great to hear you guys having some quality time and he is doing better in school. ;D
i'm a really competitive person myself and i don't "let" my kids win anything. i make them earn it. unfortunately my soon to be 7yr old in a couple of weeks can almost out shoot me. She is pretty good. ;D sounds like your in the same boat. ;D
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Singleshooter- WOW! What a great story to hear about your son- congrats to you and to him. Thanks for sharing. :) I really think that if more kids were given this kind of parent-kid time and taught to do something that requires concentration and has a reward of feeling good about one's skills, the world would be a better place. Kudos to you guys!
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Hey Lizzie, I've been an advocate of the "Aim Small, Miss Small" practice for some time. Here is a practice "Bug" target shot at 25 yards and the next one is my practice target for this current Steroid 15 PCP Bench match. The targets looked huge after shooting life size flies and mosquitoes! I got 144 out of 150 for my practice target.
Brett
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Wow Brett- that's great!