GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Feinwerkbau => Topic started by: Oldgringo on March 13, 2021, 01:00:36 PM
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It's 70° and I'm out on the patio trying to like my big, beautiful FWB Sport. I just put 12/15 H&N 4.51 pellets into a 3/4" group at 30 yards. Maybe, in time, this fraulein will be as easy, accurate and as fun to shoot as is my BEEMAN R7?
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LOL !! that sport will never be a R-7 my friend... You may grow to love it the way you love your R-7. But that is two very different things. What matters is that you are having a great time shooting !! Nothing any finer than stepping out back and enjoying a quiet air arm !! Have fun my friend.
kindly
ron
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LOL !! that sport will never be a R-7 my friend... You may grow to love it the way you love your R-7. But that is two very different things. What matters is that you are having a great time shooting !! Nothing any finer than stepping out back and enjoying a quiet air arm !! Have fun my friend.
kindly
ron
You are right, Ron. The only thing that they have in common is the break barrel mechanism. Viva le difference!
BTW, make that 17/20 in 3/4" group.
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Once, again, nice work with the Sport, Greg.
Yeah, Ron nailed it. The Sport will never be as easy to shoot as the HW30/R7, but, hey, the challenge of shooting the FWB Sport is what I love about it, because it is so darn accurate when you're up to shooting it.
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The R7/HW30 is springer airgun shooting with cheat mode enabled. :)
It’s just the nature of the beast, more power, more effort, more recoil etc. mastering it is the “drug”. :)
All that said ....... I LOVE my HW30’s and they would be the last to go me thinks.
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Most of my airguns are fairly high quality pieces of kit. Weihrauch, Air Arms, FWB etc. and even some of those can be fairly challenging to shoot. Right now my "white whale" air rifle so to speak is a Crosman MTR77NP (AR15 looking thing). I have shot it with irons, a red dot and scoped and I have replaced the trigger with a CDT unit.
The gun IS capable of very good accuracy but MAN SHE IS HARD TO SHOOT. The gun is far more powerful then it needs to be in .177 and is just difficult for me to shoot well. I finally put some actual glass on it and I can turn in some REALLY nice groups but JEEEZ I have to work hard for it.
Point is we all have those rifles that most likely mechanically shoot well but are sure difficult when you add the human. :D
Keep working at it, that's part of the fun. :D
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Only 28 degrees in my neck of the woods but, similarly, SUNNY! if not warm.
The FWB had several groups of 10+ shots inside a nickel at 22+ yds. Couldn't break The Dime though........
Until I broke out the R9! 8)
The FWB had some sticky stuff dripped inside last week which has smoothed things out a bit more. At least now it's quiet enough for me to hear pellets hit the target over 15 yds away, barely.
Still, one step at a time.
I've noticed that all but the JSB Exact Diablos vary from being snug in the leade, H&N FTTs, to darn tight, CPHPs, boxed CP heavies and lights. The JSBs were tending to get a little wayward at times today,with the FTTs staying more close to home. It was a bit breezy though so maybe that affected the lighter pellet more.
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Funny, above thoughts about individual guns are a big part of why I like spring guns. Each and every one of them has their own story to tell so to speak. They are just about all unique.
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Keen, the 4.51. FTT's are a bit snug. I'm using the negative end of a discharged AA battery to seat then uniformly.
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Keen, the 4.51. FTT's are a bit snug. I'm using the negative end of a discharged AA battery to seat then uniformly.
The tin sez I have the 4.50s. I tried to measure a few of them and, given my hamfistedness, it seems the sizes are quite varied - 4.48 to 4.52.
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Keen, would you please elaborate on "the sticky stuff" poured inside your FWB Sport. Mine sure could stand a 'quietening'.
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Greg,
Lucas Red N Tacky multi-purpose EP grease.
Apparently similar to Air Venturi Tune in a Tube but readily available at almost any hardware store, and cheap as chips.
I took the action out of the stock and dabbed it in the cocking slot with a small paint brush. I tried to not put too much in, but there might be room for a bit more. I figured I'd toss a hundred or two pellets through and see where we were.
Interestingly I only had to make a couple or three clicks of windage adjustment when re-sighting. I guess these things are very closely put together.
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The challenge of the different springers: y'all are right, enjoy 'em all.
Tornado season has started with a couple in West Texas today. Weather permitting, I'm going to shoot my Hector tuned Diana 48 a bit tomorrow.
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Once, again, nice work with the Sport, Greg.
Yeah, Ron nailed it. The Sport will never be as easy to shoot as the HW30/R7, but, hey, the challenge of shooting the FWB Sport is what I love about it, because it is so darn accurate when you're up to shooting it.
Joanie nailed it here !!
but, hey, the challenge of shooting the FWB Sport is what I love about it, because it is so darn accurate when you're up to shooting it.
I love air arms like that sport !! makes you work for it, but well worth it in everyway.
kindly
ron
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Thanks, Ron.
Folks, we've recently expanded our PCP shooting by investing in a good compressor and we even added another excellent Daystate PCP rifle. It's really expanded our air gun shooting and we've been very pleased with the results.
I was worried, though, that wandering over to play on the dark side would maybe cause me to lose interest in our wonderful springers. Ha! Couldn't be any more wrong on that count and the FWB Sport is one of the reasons why. After a session with the PCPs, I'm more eager than ever to get back to my springer shooting. Trust me, if you think the Sport is different compared to shooting other springers, think how different it is compared to a whisper quiet and almost recoil free PCP. Truth is, after shooting springers, I actually find the lack of noise and recoil when shooting PCP a little unnerving. :)
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Not a Sport but a much older 124. I purchased this gun in either late 1974-early 75. Sometime in that first year I put a Williams receiver sight on it , then found a globe sight for interchangable inserts and used that combo for several years, finally putting a Beeman Blue Ribbon scope on it. The other day I got the urge to shoot iron sights so went to the ammo box where I keep old gun parts, and I had the sights plus a couple of other parts bagged up for it. Took the scope off and put the irons on. It was lightly raining so slipped out on the front porch, set a tin can out so I could shoot at about 30-40 feet, and immediately hit it and put a group about 1 1/2" in it shooting offhand. I was amazed that those sights were still well zeroed after banging around in that box all those years.
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I think me and my FWB Sport may be about to come to grips with on another?
This is 10 H&N, 4.51 FTT's at 30 yards this morning. That one pellet to left was the second shot pulled by me.
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I think me and my FWB Sport may be about to come to grips with on another?
This is 10 H&N, 4.51 FTT's at 30 yards this morning. That one pellet to left was the second shot pulled by me.
Very Nice Greg!! I declare, if your Sport is anything like mine, i bet it is getting exponentially smoother and easier to cock. Starting to feel like one of my old Sporters the more I shoot it. Keep up the work,...it is paying dividends for sure!!!!
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Nice work, Greg!!!
I've been itching to get back to the Sport after working with PCPs this last week. Oh, the PCPs shoot mind-boggling groups. Love 'em. Can only go so long without shooting my springers, though.
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After breaking and cocking my FWB barrel is suddenly swinging like a sailors d#@! on shore leave. There's absolutely no side to side movement, but I'm not sure if it might be wavering a bit on accuracy.
Should I take the action out of the action and tighten the pivot bolt, or leave it as it is until I can really see a difference in how it shoots?
The weather has been cold here, so between cold fingers, low temps and possibly sticky lubrication it's hard to tell what is really going on.
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Personally, I'd just shoot it some more come warmer weather to make sure that's the problem before messing with what might not be broken.
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I'm of the same mind at the moment NCG, unless there's something I might be missing.
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After breaking and cocking my FWB barrel is suddenly swinging like a sailors d#@! on shore leave. There's absolutely no side to side movement, but I'm not sure if it might be wavering a bit on accuracy.
Should I take the action out of the action and tighten the pivot bolt, or leave it as it is until I can really see a difference in how it shoots?
The weather has been cold here, so between cold fingers, low temps and possibly sticky lubrication it's hard to tell what is really going on.
My barrel got real floppy too. I went to O'Reillys and got #15 & 20 Torx drivers to tighten barrel pivot and stock screws as needed.
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After breaking and cocking my FWB barrel is suddenly swinging like a sailors d#@! on shore leave. There's absolutely no side to side movement, but I'm not sure if it might be wavering a bit on accuracy.
Should I take the action out of the action and tighten the pivot bolt, or leave it as it is until I can really see a difference in how it shoots?
The weather has been cold here, so between cold fingers, low temps and possibly sticky lubrication it's hard to tell what is really going on.
Chris, my Sports’ barrel is the same way. Swings freely at the pivot axis with no side to side play/movement whatsoever. No noticeable change in accuracy either. I did take mine out of the stock last weekend to check the slot for any metal shavings that might have worn off from the cocking slot during the breaking in period. Didnt see anything but a over greased spring 😉. While i had it out, i checked the pivot bolt and the jam bolt on the other side. Neither would budge with the detent (barrel cracked open) unlocked. Wasn't about to put any gorilla force on either bolt anyhow. Reassembled the action to the stock and she shoots straight and true. I am a firm believer in the “if it aint broke, dont fix it” mind set.
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EXCELLENT!
tjk Thanks for the reassurance, and doing the work I don't need to. ;D
Is there any obvious reason the pivot would loosen up that much? Given that OG has had the same issue it almost sounds like they were made to loosen up.
Oldgringo, Did you find that the pivot bolt needed tightening?
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EXCELLENT!
tjk Thanks for the reassurance, and doing the work I don't need to. ;D
Is there any obvious reason the pivot would loosen up that much? Given that OG has had the same issue it almost sounds like they were made to loosen up.
Oldgringo, Did you find that the pivot bolt needed tightening?
Yes, the pivot bolt requires a Torx 15 driver and tightening them, reduces the free swing of tthe barrel.
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How many rounds do you have through yours? My hasn’t loosened at all beyond the stock screws of course.
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I would say about 300 to 400 pellets. But i have been shooting a variety of diff pellets during the break in and havent kept track of how many.
I will say this though. I dont know what it is with the germans and the lack of lubricants to their spring guns, but it is almost a sure given that I am going to lube the pivot axis immediately after just a few shots. And the reason I think some folks do have pivot loosening issues is a direct reaction of these guns not being sufficiently lubricated in this area. If the mating surfaces are just lubed enough to slide with a rough feel, i can imagine the next link,...the main pivot bolt,.. giving in and turning a slight bit at a time. IMO, this is unacceptable build practice by the manufacturers. Be it FWB, HW, Diana, and etc.
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Good point. I bought my Sports from AoA and they sent a memo advising to lube the pivot axis and add a dab of grease to the locking bolt. Has definitely made the Sport easier to open and cock.
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Of the 4 sports I previously owned, all of the pivots were mainly dry. I never had any of them exhibit the pivot bolt loosening. However, I pulled them down fairly quickly after new. I recommend pulling the barrel bearings, and greasing them under and over with something slick like Extreme Weapons Grease, not moly. I used the same grease on the pivot bolt. I can't recall if the aluminum breech block is sleeved or not. But you wouldn't want accelerated wear in this area. The i.d. cut threads on the pivot bolt and nut, degrease and install. After proper lubing, you can get these pivots tensioned pretty good, and the bearings will still let the barrel drop smooth.
Jason
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i used FWB white grease on all pivots. It is the same grease that came with my FWB 603 single stroke 10 meter rifle. Worked perfect. My Sport was tuned by Flying Dragons. It shoots near as good as any Hw30/R7. lOVE IT, NEVER SELL
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What is Extreme Weapons Grease?
And why not moly?
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Of the 4 sports I previously owned, all of the pivots were mainly dry. I never had any of them exhibit the pivot bolt loosening. However, I pulled them down fairly quickly after new. I recommend pulling the barrel bearings, and greasing them under and over with something slick like Extreme Weapons Grease, not moly. I used the same grease on the pivot bolt. I can't recall if the aluminum breech block is sleeved or not. But you wouldn't want accelerated wear in this area. The i.d. cut threads on the pivot bolt and nut, degrease and install. After proper lubing, you can get these pivots tensioned pretty good, and the bearings will still let the barrel drop smooth.
Jason
What is Extreme Weapons Grease?
And why not moly?
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Had one of those Sport trials, today. Had the itch to get out and shoot the scoped Sport to see what it would do off the bench at 30 yards, despite winds over 20 mph.
Just couldn't get those groups even down to half inch, though, and I know this rifle can do a third of an inch, because it's done exactly that. Oh, I was tempted to blame the wind or maybe the scope was loose or maybe I had angered the springer gods by shooting PCPs, last week or ...
In then end I just had to be honest and admit it was just not one of my best springer days. I do have those, every now and then.
As sometimes happens when I get frustrated shooting my springers, I gave in and headed back to the house and traded the Sport for one of my pet PCPs, you know, just to prove it was that nasty wind that was the problem.
Uh, nope. Three groups with the PCP, one spooky small group after another.
So .... just me having an off springer shooting day. Will try again, soon. Can't let those PCPs beat up on my beloved springers.
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I’ve been going through a bit of a case of the air gun “yips” as well lately. I have just been off my game even with the HW30’s which are basically shooting with cheat mode enabled.
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OTOH, I went out for a brief shoot yesterday with my FWB Sport and shot 10 H&N FTT in every size at 30 yards off the bench.
Firstly, the 4.50 and 4.52 were okay. Lastly, the second five of the 4.51's went into one small <3/8" hole. I quit while I was ahead.
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Ah, the joys and headaches of shooting a springer! Never ends, but that's the attraction for me.
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Ah, the joys and headaches of shooting a springer! Never ends, but that's the attraction for me.
This is why we all have a variety of springers to choose from. My Sport was lazer accurate today, and the 34k is showing signs of improvement. I pulled out the 77k and cant group/plink worth a &^^& for some reason. Next comes out the 35 and it is if the stars and planets are all in perfect alignment. Springers,...you either love them or hate them!!!! Lols.
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Springers,...you either love them or hate them!!!! Lols.
Yep, and this is why I love em. The personality of each and every on.
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I did give the Sport another try, today, but this time hubby was with me and shooting the 95L in 20. He was easily outshooting me with the HW. Me, I was plagued with constant POI changes with the Sport and could not get get any kind of a group started.
After hubby was done shooting, I stayed and switched to his 95L to compare it with the Sport. Sure enough, I was shooting the 95L the way it's always shot, which is to say, nice and consistent. No wall hanging groups, but consistent half inch groups at 30 yards.
Have to conclude from all of this that I may have a scope or mount problem on the Sport. (Hope not, because the scope is one of my Nikon EFRs.) This gun has outshot the 95L in the past, so something is not right. No way should it be shooting so sloppy. Have a Hawke AirMax I'll try on the gun, next.
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See if your Mount is slipping backwards. Mine did, I assume I didn’t have the cross pin just right.
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Will do and more, if needed. I'd really like to get this Sport back to shooting the way I know it can shoot.
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Good news and bad news with the scoped Sport.
The good news is that I changed scopes to a Swift Premier 6-18x AO and the Sport is back to shooting decent groups at 30 yards. Shot 8 groups ranging from .38" to .68" with the average being right at .50". Gusty winds sweeping at an angle across the range, so I might be able to trim those groups a bit on a calmer day ... or maybe not. Regardless, I have no complaints about shooting half inch groups on a consistent basis.
The bad news is that it looks like the Sport's recoil ate one of my precious Nikon Prostaff EFRs. Going with a different scope cut group size in half. I may try the Nikon on a rifle with less recoil and see if it's still useable.
Not complaining, though. The main thing was getting the Sport back on track.
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Good news and bad news with the scoped Sport.
The good news is that I changed scopes to a Swift Premier 6-18x AO and the Sport is back to shooting decent groups at 30 yards. Shot 8 groups ranging from .38" to .68" with the average being right at .50". Gusty winds sweeping at an angle across the range, so I might be able to trim those groups a bit on a calmer day ... or maybe not. Regardless, I have no complaints about shooting half inch groups on a consistent basis.
The bad news is that it looks like the Sport's recoil ate one of my precious Nikon Prostaff EFRs. Going with a different scope cut group size in half. I may try the Nikon on a rifle with less recoil and see if it's still useable.
Not complaining, though. The main thing was getting the Sport back on track.
Hmmm? I've been shooting my Nikon EFR scoped Sport all afternoon and am not pleased with the results and am wondering whether it's me, the rifle and/or the scope? No further than I shoot, maybe I'd be happier shooting open sights, you reckon?
This gun will put 2 or 3 in almost the same hole then the next couple of pellets may be 1/2" either side of the one hole. I don't like that.
BTW, the barrel does loosen up. I've tightened mine once and today it's floppy again. :(
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The only sure way to know, Greg, is to change scopes and give it a try like I did. Last time I used the Sport with the Nikon, groups were really bad. Had a tough time getting under an inch. Back down to half inch or less with the Swift, today.
The Sport does make a good case for those who prefer shooting springers with iron sights to avoid ruining scopes.
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Good news and bad news with the scoped Sport.
The good news is that I changed scopes to a Swift Premier 6-18x AO and the Sport is back to shooting decent groups at 30 yards. Shot 8 groups ranging from .38" to .68" with the average being right at .50". Gusty winds sweeping at an angle across the range, so I might be able to trim those groups a bit on a calmer day ... or maybe not. Regardless, I have no complaints about shooting half inch groups on a consistent basis.
The bad news is that it looks like the Sport's recoil ate one of my precious Nikon Prostaff EFRs. Going with a different scope cut group size in half. I may try the Nikon on a rifle with less recoil and see if it's still useable.
Not complaining, though. The main thing was getting the Sport back on track.
Hmmm? I've been shooting my Nikon EFR scoped Sport all afternoon and am not pleased with the results and am wondering whether it's me, the rifle and/or the scope? No further than I shoot, maybe I'd be happier shooting open sights, you reckon?
This gun will put 2 or 3 in almost the same hole then the next couple of pellets may be 1/2" either side of the one hole. I don't like that.
BTW, the barrel does loosen up. I've tightened mine once and today it's floppy again. :(
Not for nothing, and by way of encouragement......
We, and use the term only in regard to our presence on the German gate, have a history of shooting HWs, which are mostly known for being cooperative shooters with pretty good manners. There's little or nothing out there on the interweb, certainly not any airgun related site that I've travelled, regarding long term manners of untuned FWB Sports. The folks here at GTA who own an FWB Sport are really on the bleeding edge of reporting experiences with these guns in an untuned state. And even then only over a few months. I know I want my gun to be the best thing since sliced bread, and perhaps it will be someday, but for now we suffer the trials and tribulations of being early adopters.
Never Give Up. Never Surrender.
Love that movie.
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I really, really enjoy shooting my 25 and 30 yard spinner spoons with my peepsighted HW's and BEEMAN. Frustration I can get from TV news.
Oh well, "tomorrow's anther day". Who said that in what movie?
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It is tomorrow.
I ran 10 H&N 4.51 pellets through the sport a while ago and got a good 30 yard 1/2" group with the same Nikon EFR scope on her as yesterday. I've about concluded that I'm not as hold sensitive as the Sport is; ergo, I'll keep trying to do better....for awhile.
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Greg, after shooting so very many different springers at 30 yards, I've come to the conclusion that half inch for 5 shots is a very typical springer group at 30 yards when I'm on my game. Sure, now and then I can squeeze in a 3/8 inch group and, on rare occasions, even get a wall hanger around 1/3 inch. Always fun to chase those tiny groups with a springer, but no way will any of my springers keep up at 30 yards with our best PCPs, either for smallest group or consistency, group after group. I actually like that, however. Gives me something to try to match with the springers.
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Greg, after shooting so very many different springers at 30 yards, I've come to the conclusion that half inch for 5 shots is a very typical springer group at 30 yards when I'm on my game. Sure, now and then I can squeeze in a 3/8 inch group and, on rare occasions, even get a wall hanger around 1/3 inch. Always fun to chase those tiny groups with a springer, but no way will any of my springers keep up at 30 yards with our best PCPs, either for smallest group or consistency, group after group. I actually like that, however. Gives me something to try to match with the springers.
Wise counsel, thank you, Joanie.
I tried my Diana 34 today and had to be satisfied with a fat 1/2" group. Next, I contended myself shooting spinner spoons with my peepsighted HW30S at 25 and 30 yards. Do I really need an HW30S Deluxe?
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Greg, don't you already have 2 Hw30s and an R7? What's the attraction to the deluxe model? If you don't mind me asking.
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Greg, don't you already have 2 Hw30s and an R7? What's the attraction to the deluxe model? If you don't mind me asking.
I dunno', Ron. They are just so fun and easy to shoot in my backyard. Plus, the Deluxe is prettier than my plain Jane 30S'.
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Ha! Need is a funny word, Greg, as we all well know. :)
We have two HW30s and one of those is the laminate version. That's my favorite. Oh, you could twist my arm to get another laminate HW30 if AoA ever offers one, again. I'd jump on a laminate HW50 in a heartbeat.
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What is this “NEED” you speak of? :)
I took the offramp from need MANY MANY MILES ago and I passed the little town of justification doing about 120 and here we are in happy crazy town but it’s a heck of a ride. :) :p
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Well, more FWB Sport trial and tribulation.
I shot some 20 each of H&N 4.51 & 4.52 FTT's this afternoon. She'll put 3 of 5 within 3/8" of each other and the next two go off in space somewhere. She will hit my spinner spoons at 30 yards, however.
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Sounds very familiar. :) I find that I must be absolutely religious about follow through with that Sport recoil. If I so much as blink, I blow the group. Not as easy to shoot as the HW95L, but with the Sport, you just KNOW the accuracy is there. Sure keeps me trying.
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Sounds very familiar. :) I find that I must be absolutely religious about follow through with that Sport recoil. If I so much as blink, I blow the group. Not as easy to shoot as the HW95L, but with the Sport, you just KNOW the accuracy is there. Sure keeps me trying.
I think that is what's called "hold sensitive" and yes; I'll keep trying to get that decent, five-shots in one hole group.
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I know FWB made a low fpe version of the Sport for the Euro market. That might have been a fun gun to get, just to see the difference in how our versions shoot.
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I thought twice about resurrecting this thread, but a couple of recent comments by Oldgringo made me realise that some of us are still ....... having trials with this gun.
I did what turned out to be a fairly sloppy lube tune some weeks ago but hadn't really had chance to do any shooting afterwards. Today I managed to get out for an hour or so to shoot a few groups and was A) pleasantly surprised, and B) a bit nervous.
The pleasant surprise was shooting sub dime groups at 22 yds with FTTs and AA Diablos, both in 4.51, CPH heavies and CPHP 7.9s. So painting up the spring and cocking slot with a mix of moly and a Tune in a Tube simulacrum really reduced the twang and bang. To be honest, I was starting to thing that I'd never see results like this with this gun. As many have pointed out the new FWB Sport really is a challenging piece of kit. So that's the good news.
The not so good news is that before I ran these different pellets through the gun I did some "fun" shooting and Miss FWB dieseled like nobody's business and detonated a bunch. So much for my sloppy tuning! I guess at some point there'll be a strip and rebuild :(
As always I followed shooting the FWB by shooting the R9 for a side by side comparison.
The R9 still has the honours with sub 3/8 groups, but at least the FWB is gettin' there.
Man! This is some kind of gut checking, knee trembling experience!
As an aside, there's a VERY long thread on the Brit airgunbbs site about the R9. Fascinating stuff about the R9 and how difficult the sub 12 ft/lb version is for folks in the UK to get their heads around. I'm a Brit BTW so any derogatory comments I might indulge in are done under license. ;D
http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread.php?877254-Why-is-the-HW95-so-bouncy (http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread.php?877254-Why-is-the-HW95-so-bouncy)
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Ha! I think the Sport is intimidating enough to shoot even without the dieseling and detonating. :)
Seriously, that's good work with Sport. For sure, the R9/HW95 falls in the more normal range of springer shooting. I often shoot our 95L after shooting the Sport, just to return earthbound springer shooting.
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Ha! I think the Sport is intimidating enough to shoot even without the dieseling and detonating. :)
Seriously, that's good work with Sport. For sure, the R9/HW95 falls in the more normal range of springer shooting. I often shoot our 95L after shooting the Sport, just to return earthbound springer shooting.
Yes NCG!
Doing the R9 thing after the FWB is like sinking into your favourite, comfy chair after riding a bicycle with a very thin saddle for a couple of hours!
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:) :) :) Amen to that.