GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: phoenix02 on March 13, 2021, 03:15:18 AM
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Hello all! I got my Akela today from Crosman. It was at 0 on the tank when it arrived, which I thought was odd- i figured there would be a small charge to keep everything seated. I'm not ready to use it yet, still have to do something for optics, but decided to use my hand pump to see just how bad it is to fill manually, never having done it before.
I cocked the rifle as the instruction manual states, connect the foster and start pumping... and hear a constant hiss. All the air I put in is just leaking out the barrel. I tried dry firing and filling uncocked, of course that leaked. Tried recocking it with the action left open and it just leaks out the breach. Close the action and it again leaks out the muzzle- I can put my finger over it and it pressurizes slightly, so it's definitely leaking right out the barrel.
I ordered a YH compressor but it hasn't arrived, all I have is the hand pump. I can't call Crosman until monday... any ideas? I have a hammers scope I can mount for now if I pick up some picatiny mounts, but that seems needless if it won't hold air. :-(
Thanks,
Michael
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Unfortunately, unless you can pump very fast there is an insufficient volume of air with the hand pump to fully seat the valve. Try to do eight to ten very quick pump strokes sometimes that will be enough air pressure and volume to seat the valve.
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I wondered about that and tried again, pumping the handle as fast as I could about 40 times in 30 some-odd seconds. No difference, just a slow hiss. :-(
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Sometimes it requires more air than a hand pump can produce to seat the valve
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You have done all that is possible - the valve should be seated. The fact the rifle arrived without air tells all.
Call Monday for RMA and replacement. Some like disassembling guns with 5-year warranties - I don't.
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Sadly,, this exposes the lack of quality control at Crosman AND the importer of the rifle. Seems to be NOT good business sense to ship a rifle to the buyer without first testing its' basic functions..... and then having to pay a shipper / issue an RMA to make it right. Unfortunate!
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Marauder rifles and Marauder pistols are shipped with a test target.
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You have done all that is possible - the valve should be seated. The fact the rifle arrived without air tells all.
Call Monday for RMA and replacement. Some like disassembling guns with 5-year warranties - I don't.
Same here... can't agree enough!
If it's past it's warranty, then fine... Especially Crosman, I can drive the gun down Rt5 and drop it off... lol
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You have done all that is possible - the valve should be seated. The fact the rifle arrived without air tells all.
Call Monday for RMA and replacement. Some like disassembling guns with 5-year warranties - I don't.
Same here... can't agree enough!
If it's past it's warranty, then fine... Especially Crosman, I can drive the gun down Rt5 and drop it off... lol
I have many (many more than not) modified guns and a very large parts supply for current and future work. But new guns will function or hit the road.
Nice that you live near Crosman. Rather farther to D. B. Webb (going west).
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You have done all that is possible - the valve should be seated. The fact the rifle arrived without air tells all.
Call Monday for RMA and replacement. Some like disassembling guns with 5-year warranties - I don't.
Agree 100%
I've filled guns from 0 with a pump countless of times and never had one not filling if cocked.
....Send it back as fast as you can.
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Thanks, everyone- that's what I was afraid of. I totally agree that I shouldn't have to do surgery on a new gun with a 5 year warranty- I specifically went with the Akela for the warranty and I THOUGHT better quality control than something from AEA or the new Cattleman brand, that kind of thing in the same price range. I'm not tearing into a totally new gun and voiding a warranty I specifically paid to get. Tighten a screw here or there that came loose in shipping I can deal with, but tearing apart the action to replace a seal or valve or something that was faulty in manufacturing is disheartening. I'll do an oil change on a new car, but not an engine rebuild.
I'll give them a call monday... :-(
-Michael
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Thanks, everyone- that's what I was afraid of. I totally agree that I shouldn't have to do surgery on a new gun with a 5 year warranty- I specifically went with the Akela for the warranty and I THOUGHT better quality control than something from AEA or the new Cattleman brand, that kind of thing in the same price range. I'm not tearing into a totally new gun and voiding a warranty I specifically paid to get. Tighten a screw here or there that came loose in shipping I can deal with, but tearing apart the action to replace a seal or valve or something that was faulty in manufacturing is disheartening. I'll do an oil change on a new car, but not an engine rebuild.
I'll give them a call monday... :-(
-Michael
Bummer Michael! But before you ship it back I would try and locate someone that has a compressor or bottle to give it one last try to shock the Akela into holding air and filling. Sometimes a hand pump - no matter how quickly one attempts to pump it - just will not do the trick.
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I just got an Akela two days ago. I ordered right from Crosman and they ship the guns empty. Even with cocking the gun, air still came out when I opened my tank slowly. I had to slam the air in. I had to open the tank pretty wide open, It went from 0 to 3000 psi in about two seconds. I thought to myself, this is going to be impossible for anyone who hand pumps.
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Yeah, pretty impossible for anyone who hand pumps. I can attest to that. :-)
I wonder what changed- I read reviews before I ordered and most folks were saying they were showing up with a fully charged tank. I thought SOP for mfgs were to pressurize to 1k at least to keep everything in order before the end user filled to full. Maybe we got ours from a bad batch with a faulty valve that leaked down? Have you noticed any leaking after filling?
Thanks!
-Michael
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If you have a rubber mallet, let someone tap the valve area while you pump.
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All I can add is that I've had my bulldog apart a couple times to install a depinger, and both times pumped it back up with a hand pump. Only thing I had to do was pull the hammer back to take the pressure from the spring off.
Hopefully my Kral won't do this when it finally returns, not going to want to ship it overseas again for warranty work.
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John, the engineer from Crosman, said the other day on a FB group that as of ~Aug 2020, all pcp's are being shipped empty from Crosman. So it's not a defect that it arrived that way.
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John, the engineer from Crosman, said the other day on a FB group that as of ~Aug 2020, all pcp's are being shipped empty from Crosman. So it's not a defect that it arrived that way.
Wow, talk about enabling compressor and tank purchases! ;)
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John, the engineer from Crosman, said the other day on a FB group that as of ~Aug 2020, all pcp's are being shipped empty from Crosman. So it's not a defect that it arrived that way.
So just in the last months of last year. Members have stated their new Turkish Benjamins have arrived with 3000 psi.
Not sure I like the new policy. I expect it is some shipping agency issue. And likely an air freight issue.
But the rifle should be able to be hand pumped. I will say though that I had an issue a couple of years ago with pumping an empty rifle with Hill and chinese pumps, but the Benjamin pump would start the empty gun fill. The Benjamin has a shorter hose, or perhaps the slightly larger diameter pump tube delivers a bit more volume per stroke. ??? So I use the Benjamin pump for fills after having degassed.
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Also try to put an extra O-ring on the hose's adapter.
My GX hand pump's was deeper by an mm or 2, so Amazon Prime (seller: Ankul) decided to refund me ($160) and told me not to return the item ;D
Personally, I would open it and clean/lube the valve, rather than return it.
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Craig,
That's interesting. I have a Benjamin pump too, maybe that's why I haven't had issues.
I also bought the version 2 Benjamin Traveller compressor... Man that thing is LOUD! I didn't want to mess with water cooling, even though I know it is better. The V2 has the 120 volt AC supply built into the box, and still offers 12v charging from a battery. Haven't used it much yet, the snow is still hanging around!
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Good news! I got the fill station in for my scuba tank. Cracked the air and slowly brought it up until there was a good amount of air leaking out the barrel, then cocked and fired the gun a couple times. This attenuated the air flow, so I figured the valve was trying to seat. I cocked it one more time and blipped the valve on the scuba, which popped whatever was leaking into place and filled to about 1500PSI. I fired a few times then filled up to 3k, dry fired a few times and different power levels, then topped off to 3k again and now I'm going to let it set overnight to make sure it's holding air well.
Looks like the patient is going to make it without going back to Crosman, but golly, I have NO idea how someone could have made this work without a high pressure source.
-Michael
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Good news! I got the fill station in for my scuba tank. Cracked the air and slowly brought it up until there was a good amount of air leaking out the barrel, then cocked and fired the gun a couple times. This attenuated the air flow, so I figured the valve was trying to seat. I cocked it one more time and blipped the valve on the scuba, which popped whatever was leaking into place and filled to about 1500PSI. I fired a few times then filled up to 3k, dry fired a few times and different power levels, then topped off to 3k again and now I'm going to let it set overnight to make sure it's holding air well.
Looks like the patient is going to make it without going back to Crosman, but golly, I have NO idea how someone could have made this work without a high pressure source.
-Michael
Sometimes it is the nature of the beast. Learning curves of a new hobby are sometimes foreign in thought logic, but are there nonetheless.
Stuff happens. ;D
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It still seems like there is a problem to me, or are other people saying this is normal? Once you slam some air in there, it should seal and it sounds like you still had issues until you really opened the valve. I doubt my compressor would have given it enough of a burst to get your valve to close, the piston is very few cc per stroke in order to build the high pressures.
I'd probably contact Crosman and hope that your message to sent to someone that actually works at Crosman which doesn't seem to be happening lately (at least not for me).
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maybe get adapter for regular air compressor, 1/4" fosters to 1/8" fosters or just use a air blower gun held tight against the probe, use a standard air compressor just to get enough air volume to seat the seal on the poppet, then the hand pump might work.
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Well, I spoke too soon. It dropped about 150 PSI overnight, so something still isn't right. Going to call Crosman.
-Michael
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Well, that was annoying. It's only 1:30 eastern and Crosman support is closed. I put a ticket in through the website and will have to call again on monday. ::)
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I'll give my input from years of working on airguns and 14 years of working PCP guns...
A properly working PCP will fill from empty to full, from any air source; hand pump, compressor, or tank. Whenever someone has given me a gun that did this, I stopped and took it apart to find that either a seal was scored/worn or there was manufacturing debris in the softer seals or valve issues.
This is why the gun isn't holding pressure and why it was evacuating out of the barrel when trying to be filled. When the user filled it fast, it allowed for the seals to expand enough to now hold air. If the user shoots it enough, when it gets to a lower pressure, I have a feeling it all of a sudden evacuate all at once. Have had that happen.
It also goes against the rule of filling too quickly -- that is very hard on o-rings and can also potentially lead to overfilling conditions if not careful.
I would've not even chanced filling it in case something went wrong and I would've boxed it up and reached out to Crosman support. At this point, I wouldn't mention what you did, but you can if you wish. Make sure you empty it before putting it in the post... please.
With that being said, I gave my $0.02.
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FWIW, my Akela arrived full in mid-September 2020. I ended up returning it anyway, but that's a different issue: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=178099.msg156018957#msg156018957 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=178099.msg156018957#msg156018957)
John, the engineer from Crosman, said the other day on a FB group that as of ~Aug 2020, all pcp's are being shipped empty from Crosman. So it's not a defect that it arrived that way.
So just in the last months of last year. Members have stated their new Turkish Benjamins have arrived with 3000 psi.
Not sure I like the new policy. I expect it is some shipping agency issue. And likely an air freight issue.
But the rifle should be able to be hand pumped. I will say though that I had an issue a couple of years ago with pumping an empty rifle with Hill and chinese pumps, but the Benjamin pump would start the empty gun fill. The Benjamin has a shorter hose, or perhaps the slightly larger diameter pump tube delivers a bit more volume per stroke. ??? So I use the Benjamin pump for fills after having degassed.
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I'll be sending it back. I just dry fired it down to empty, and about 10% of the shots were misfires, the trigger set but then it felt like it would release about half way through the travel and then not fire, so I had to pull the trigger again a couple times then recock and it would fire. Something is weird in the action and I'm not about to dig in and void a 5 year warranty I specifically bought the gun over a Puncher/Breaker for.
-Michael
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^^
Good job!
Even though I can fix most anything, and have the tooling, I try to take advantage of manufacturers warranties, because I'm that type of guy. You say it's good for 5 years, you better make it right. ;)
I've had folks bring me their broken airguns before and I tell them straight up, if it's under warranty I no touchy unless you want the warranty voided. I also tell them why would you pay me to fix it, when post is cheaper than me fixing it? Ain't like it's gonna get done any quicker... lol
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Have the same issue. Received rifle yesterday (Monday). Arrived with 0psi. Thought ohh great. Tried to fill couldn’t. Cocked gun like directions say still couldn’t. Only have hand pump Benjamin.
Filed a RMA. An been approved.
Gun will be going back, an I’ll be put on the list for a FX impact in .22 700mm when they come in.
Have a compressor on order.
This just got real.
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I think there may be new rules about shipping these empty, so not an immediate sign of trouble. But as soon as it won't take pressure, that's a problem. Kind of glad I had troubles ordering one, but then again the rifle I did order went back for repair to some shipping (???) damage and still no idea when I'll get a new one shipped. Been over a week since it got back and they said they would ship a new one (Krale in Netherlands) as opposed to fixing it. Funny thing is this model I'm waiting for does show as in stock, if they wait too long I'm going to change to a refund an do something else.
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Same thing with my new akela. When I called support they said that the guns come in from Turkey with 0 psi now. Their suggestion was to find someone with a tank and use it for the initial fill or send it back to them for an initial fill. Fortunately there is a dive shop near me with some very nice folks who were able to fill the gun directly for me. It didn't lose any air overnight and the next day I was able shoot a couple mags worth of pellets and top it back up with my handpump.
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You have done all that is possible - the valve should be seated. The fact the rifle arrived without air tells all.
Call Monday for RMA and replacement. Some like disassembling guns with 5-year warranties - I don't.
I still think something is not right. I have a Disco been sitting in closet 6 years on 0Psi. (Has a slow leak)Got out the old hand pump. Took air right away.
I’m in agreement with statement above. You shouldn’t have to shock the system to get it filled from 0. If something needs shocked to get set for the first time then that should be done at factory.
Sad as I really hit the lottery with the wood grain on mine. Just as nice as some of my grade 3 browning wood. An EL wood on my berettas. Not quite EELL tho.
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Sad as I really hit the lottery with the wood grain on mine. Just as nice as some of my grade 3 browning wood. An EL wood on my berettas. Not quite EELL tho.
Ask for a replacement action only, and keep the stock you have?
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Sad as I really hit the lottery with the wood grain on mine. Just as nice as some of my grade 3 browning wood. An EL wood on my berettas. Not quite EELL tho.
Ask for a replacement action only, and keep the stock you have?
She done down the road.
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Sad as I really hit the lottery with the wood grain on mine. Just as nice as some of my grade 3 browning wood. An EL wood on my berettas. Not quite EELL tho.
Ask for a replacement action only, and keep the stock you have?
She done down the road.
(https://www.tekportal.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/darn-4961.jpg)
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This must be a Kral thing. Got my Empire X back today and after checking to see what kind of damage customs or UPS did to it, set about trying to fill it. Tried my hand pump first, got nothing but air coming out of the barrel. Tried my compressor next, and it initially failed. But they I tried again while cocking and dry firing several times. Eventually it started to build pressure. Got 150 bar in it before my mismatched fill adapters couldn't handle more pressure. At least I can track it for leaking now.
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My Akela was received on tuesday after multiple shipping delays. ::)
Any idea how long I should wait to hear back from Crosman repair before I call them?
-Michael
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UPS messed with me too, but I think it was because of the way customs mangled the box to perform inspection! Lately I read about a lot complaints about UPS shipping times.
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Well, it appears I also spoke to soon on my Akela being OK. I took it out for the second time yesterday and after 7 shots it went from 3000 to 1000 psi. I pumped it up to 2500 and left it overnight. This morning its down below 1000. Another day and it will probably drop enough that my handpump wont be able to fill it. We'll see what Crosman has to say tomorrow when I give them a call.
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Uggg!
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Uggg!
Yup. I love the stock on this one, but I'm not sure now if I want to return for warranty repair or just get a refund and grab something else.
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I just got my second Akela to replace the first defective one, and hey look at that, it's another piece of garbage that won't even hold air, so now I have two brand new Akelas that are junk, and worse, Benjamin support acknowledged they are aware of the issue with the breeches, and yet they are still selling defective rifles and letting the customer find out the hard way and they aren't even able to provide working replacements.
Buying a Benjamin was a mistake, pure and simple, they are just another garbage importer.
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Sorry to hear, I got one the same an was sad to ship back as it was a beautiful gun. If i had more rifles I may have taken it on as a project since it was so nice. But not really having a nice rifle I sent it back (at the time). I really like the way it felt in my hands as well. Just a shame it wasn't mechanical as fit. When i got my first PCP a Disco it was nice for money. So was the Marauder Figured id try another not so lucky. Figured they would be a safe bet.
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Not that I have much time with it yet, but Kral Empire X is so far so good. Biggest issue is ordering from Europe since it isn't imported to the USA.
That said, it might be a little under powered, looks like it wants around 20gr pellets, the 25gr were a little slow for my tastes. It is a 30fpe gun.
I have a thread if you are interested in more, hoping to get out this week for longer range shooting.
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Not that I have much time with it yet, but Kral Empire X is so far so good. Biggest issue is ordering from Europe since it isn't imported to the USA.
That said, it might be a little under powered, looks like it wants around 20gr pellets, the 25gr were a little slow for my tastes. It is a 30fpe gun.
I have a thread if you are interested in more, hoping to get out this week for longer range shooting.
The Puncher Empire looks awesome! It fixes the two issues I have with the Akela design by having a higher rail and moving the sidelever above the trigger. If my replacement Akela comes in with any issues I will likely go for a refund and order one of these instead.
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Can't remember where I read it but putting 2 pellets in with the bolt closed and you should be able to pump it up. Just remember to have it pointed in a safe direction because the leaking air could push the pellets out.
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My Akela arrived at Crosman last Tuesday. I called today to find out what's up and I guess they decided it had a problem too- she said paperwork was sent to shipping for an outright replacement rather than repair, but it hasn't ahipped yet. So, hopefully I'll have a gun back next week.
-Michael
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They told me they were shipping out a replacement today, but they didn't follow through, and on the second one they're supposedly sending me an Armada to replace it, because they have no more Akelas in stock. But so far all I have is one return label, and no confirmation of anything being shipped.
They're pushing me to the point where I involve the Attorney General and Consumer Product Safety Commission, this is ridiculous.
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... no more Akelas in stock...
Judging by the recent posts on the Akelas, its probably more like " don't have any we are willing to trust as being functional in stock"
Mine is due in NY tomorrow and they are supposed to send me a replacement. It'll be refund time if they don't have any to replace it with. I wonder if they hit enough bad ones in the latest shipment that they are just sending that lot# back to Kral.
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I bought my Empire X from Krale, the price of shipping sucked, but it arrived fast the first time. Second time customs went at it with a knife to inspect it, just over all gorilla handling which made UPS sit on it for a few days trying to decide if they were going to touch it.
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Ordered my Akela on 4/2, received it yesterday 4/7, no pressure indicated on cylinder, shipped empty. My 1st PCP, and I purchased it so I could use a hand pump, as I don't have a compressor or bottle (yet LOL). It looks ok, wood is nice but not much grain. The barrel is flimsy, maybe its just the shroud, but if you press down gently on the muzzle it dips and touches the retaining band on the compressed air cylinder.
It WILL NOT pressurize with a hand pump. Tried for about an hour ( cocked with both bolt open and bolt closed) the air just comes out the loading port and end of the barrel. Tried putting a pellet in and same result, did manage to push the pellet part way down the barrel. Went to the local hardware store and cobbled together fittings to adapt the fill connection to my shop air compressor ( 150 psi), thinking some volume might help. Nope. Called Crossman support. Rep said they are not permitted to ship pressurized (?) and it may have a stuck check valve. He recommended trying a high pressure air source....I replied I bought this model so I could hand pump because I dont have a HP air source, and it seems that this is a recurring problem on the airgun boards. His reply was they have shipped a LOT of these out and only a small percentage have problems.... but it is enough to be "problematic". He is sending me a shipping label so I can send it in for 'repair', and the tech can sort it out, test it and hopefully send it back to me with 'some' air in it.
If I could of inspect this gun prior to purchase I would not buy it just because of the 'bendy' barrel. Currently I would recommend staying away from these guns for the time being, and if you do not have a HP air source be afraid.
Gun goes back to Crossman today. Ill keep you posted.
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He recommended trying a high pressure air source....I replied I bought this model so I could hand pump because I dont have a HP air source, and it seems that this is a recurring problem on the airgun boards. His reply was they have shipped a LOT of these out and only a small percentage have problems.... but it is enough to be "problematic".
I bet a lot of that small percentage consists of people who only have a handpump. Anyone who already has a tank wouldn't notice unless theirs also has a problem holding air even after its filled enough to seat the seals. I'm one of the lucky ones that have both issues :D
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I tried the pellet deal. Think I ended up with 4 pellets shoved in to try an get it to hold air. No luck it would build up some pressure but not enough to seat valve an start leaking again.
Funny the reps are saying not many issues. I guess I didn’t mess with crossman. Figured why mess with them when I have a 60day return at air depot. Sent back as defective let them sort it out.
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Crosman told me they "just became aware of issues" with the Akela and are supposedly working with Kral to figure it out, they ended up agreeing to replace on of the Akelas with a tested one and an Armada for the other, also tested.
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Crosman told me they "just became aware of issues" with the Akela and are supposedly working with Kral to figure it out, they ended up agreeing to replace on of the Akelas with a tested one and an Armada for the other, also tested.
Nice to see they are working on the issues and making sure they get a working one out to you.
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finally got tracking numbers, Akela will be here tomorrow, Armada Wednesday, and apparently they sent the full kit Armada looking at the shipping weight
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Well, that's it for me. I got an email this morning that they won't have Akelas in stock to send me a replacement for a month or more, so I just requested a refund. :-( Maybe I'll grab a Flashpup when they have some refurbs available or something, but for now, no small bore bullpups in my locker.
-Michael
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UPDATE: Shipped my Akela back to Crossman on 4/8, they received it 4/12. No communication from them at all, not even telling me they received it. I called Customer Support today and was informed they are waiting for the "new guns" to come in "any day now". I inquired about them repairing my original rifle and testing it, as that is what I expected . The response was.... uhhh they couldn't fix it. I requested a refund. Really poor communication/ customer service in my opinion.
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UPDATE: Shipped my Akela back to Crossman on 4/8, they received it 4/12. No communication from them at all, not even telling me they received it. I called Customer Support today and was informed they are waiting for the "new guns" to come in "any day now". I inquired about them repairing my original rifle and testing it, as that is what I expected . The response was.... uhhh they couldn't fix it. I requested a refund. Really poor communication/ customer service in my opinion.
Similar story for me. They received mine on 4-8 and I heard nothing. I contacted them on the 15th to see what was up and they told me my original gun couldn't be fixed and a replacement order was put in, but they didn't have any of the Turkish made guns in stock and didn't expect any for a couple more weeks. I like the look and feel of the Akela enough that I'm being patient and waiting for a working replacement.
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Kral Puncher Breaker Silent? I'm not sure I'll recommend the Kral Puncher Empire X yet, it shoots good, but seems it really wants 20 gr pellets in the .25 to get the speed up to 800-ish fps. The shroud on the front of the Empire X is mostly for show, might be able to fill up the empty tube with some baffles to make it better, I'll look into it a bit down the road. And that said, my Empire X is not a pump friendly rifle, it leaks a little out the valve at zero pressure, a bit of messing around with a compressor running to get it to seal and pump up.
Kral Ekinoks might be an interesting choice, or the Knight with all the barrel kits.
Hatsan Flashpup?
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My replacement Akela showed up today. This one came full of air, so I assume they gave it a quick test before sending it to me. Can't wait to get out there and sight this puppy in!
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They replaced one of my Akela's with an advance exchange, the second one couldn't be replaced due to stock issues and repair was questionable, so I asked if they'd just exchange it for an Armada, which they did, with the CP scope which actual retails for more than the Akela. Considering their retailers are probably breathing down their necks, I can see where they'd short their own stock to get product to them.