GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: Cobia787 on March 08, 2021, 06:31:50 PM
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so the gun was made between 1971-78 my serial number reads
0028291
Anybody now what year that was??
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Cobia787,
This may get you a little closer. Does your 77A have scope grooves on the action? If so it was produced between 1973-78; if not it is an early variant manufactured in 1971 or 1972.
I have been told that the Air Gun Division moved from Tampa, Florida in 1973 to Springfield, Massachusetts. Some early Model rifles and even some late production rifles could be marked with a Florida location. However, I have not seen any such markings on a Model 77A rifle, all the ones I have seen have the Springfield, MA markings.
In 1978 Bangor moved the Air Gun Division back to Florida and the Model 77A was dropped. In 1980 Bangor sold the Smith & Wesson air rifle division to Daisy.
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Cobia787,
Your post prompted me to pulled my S&W Model 77A out, I took a look at the SN it is G028905, which is 614 rifles from your model.
I have read where there is a hypothetical theory that leading alpha character indicates decade of manufacture and last number in serial number is the year of that decade, if this is indeed true my rifle was manufactured in 1975 which puts it in the time period of the years dovetail scope rails were added to the action (1973-1978). I had to use zoom on my camera to confirm the G was not a numerical zero which it looked like without zoom.
Again if this hypothetical theory holds true for dating the S&W Model 77A yours would be a first year production model 1971 but to be an early rifle would mean there are no dovetails for a scope on the action. If yours has no dovetails this hypothetical theory could be more truth than fiction, to to prove it out will require a few hundred examples of this rifle not just two, but two could be a starting point.
Attached are a few pictures of my 77A
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Elroy -
The serial number of my 77a begins with G and ends with a 9. That would make it made in 1979 Are we sure production ended in 1978? It does have the scope rails.
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Glasstomb,
The production years of 1971 -1978 are listed in the Bluebook, this book for all intents and purpose tries to be a definitive document. However, I only use it as one of many reference documents, as there are inaccuracies that pop up from time to time as I found with the production years of the Marksman air rifles produced by Wiehrauch. It seems they were producing the Marksman line using up old B.S.F inventory on models such as the Marksman Models 55 & 70 as well as using them for the long retired Beeman R10 (HW85) long before the buyout of B.S.F was completed. officially My Marksman Model 70 was produced in 1986, again there must have been an early collaboration effort to use up old BSF inventory, which in the end resulted in some odd trigger configurations on the Marksman branded rifles, some had BSF triggers while others had the old “Perfekt” trigger and others used the famous Rekord trigger.
As such it should not be assumed as a definitive cold turkey end of production occurred in 1978 for the Model 77A. As with most business’s it very well could have been 1978 was the year in which a decision was made to start winding down production and models continued to be produced sometime into 1979 until no inventory was left.
I would imagine S&W may also have produced some of thes rifles in 1970 as test/demo/marketing items, but I have not seen any such examples, just as not seeing and Florida examples that are alleged to exist.
This would also be very consistent with the sell off to Daisy in 1980, which did not continue the S&W air rifles model 77A (Air) or 80G (Gas = CO2). However, S&W pistols carried on under the Daisy brand.
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Just to confuse the serial number discussion, my gun is number G037200a. It has scope grooves. Any ideas of the significance of the "a" suffix.
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Latches,
The small a charter is the first I have heard about I have seen about 10 S&W Model 77A's but none with the "a" designation, now if only an elusive version with the alleged made in X-City Florida would surface.
Due to the fact these air rifles are were only produced for a short period and since they are seldom seen. Due to these factors it really did not build a big following and with the short history of the S&W Airgun Division there is a huge void in historical information. Therefore, theories which makes the history of the this air rifle more myth/legend.
As I mentioned it will take many rifle SN's and years to even come close to having a data base to sort out a pattern or meaning associated with the S&W Model 77A or even what the "a" chracter represents. However, the one thing that is a known is your air rifle was produced after 1973 based on the old advertisement mentioned the S&W Model 77A was grooved for a scope. Again the very early model 77A actions (1971 &1972) did not have dovetails.
As for the small "a" at the end of your serial number the follwing are purley suggestions such as: Is it representative for something as simple indiacting change in iternal component design or improvement; or some small tweak to the phisical design; or could it possibly be a mark that indicates it was assembled in Florida but with components and parts supplied out of the Springfeild MA Division. Again these are just guess's as to what the "a" may or may not represent, maybe the Lagina brothers will find the answer on Oak Island (LOL). No matter I like this model and hope to find out more about them to provide answers to prove out or disprove the theries that abound about this model, could take a while but thats ok.
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I know I'm replying to an older post, but thought this was the best place to chime in with this info. I just received a 77A today. Serial number is G009384, which, going by the above, would mark it as having been made in 1974. It's marked Springfield, MA. But- it does NOT have scope dovetails. So maybe they used existing reciever sides later than the first two years, or maybe the last digit in the serial isn't actually the year? Any new info on this since this post was made?
For the record, although it was advertised as "needing seals", it seems it only needed to be cocked before pumping ;) .... seems to shoot very strong, especially at 20 pumps, which I had to try. Blew through both sides of a soup can at 6 pumps as well, so it seems quite healthy. Very nice shooting rifle.
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Nothing new yet, still looking for one with no scope grooves in receiver and a nice example of the rifle when it was produced in Tampa FL. There was a Tampa one on Ebay but just a little rough for my liking.
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Just for a comparison, mine is serial number G036126 & is grooved for a scope. I also have the original owner's manual.
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I'm not generally a collector of modern airguns, but I kept this S & W 77A through the years because I was intrigued that possibly it was from the first day (or week) of production. No scope grooves, but clearly a Springfield, Ma. product.
Thanks,
LarryH
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The serial number of mine is G0361xx . It is grooved & Springfield. Ma.
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Larry and Steve,
Thank you for the numbers I have them logged along with 20 others, maybe one I will have enough to identify a pattern for these air rifles, would be nice to know when changes actually occurred such as when the scope groves were introduced and when they moved operations to Tampa FL.
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My S&W model 77a serial number.
Springfield, Mass Scope groove.
Pat
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Going by the highest number that I'm seeing here, 36,000 plus of these rifles were made.
I suppose scattered around the country this would be fairly scarce.
Pat
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The highest S/N I've recorded on a 77A (among 12 examples over the years) was G039802 - didn't record any other details of it. Your point is well made, that a total production of ~ 40K is equivalent to just a year or two of typical Benji or Sheridan pumper output.
Don R.
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so the gun was made between 1971-78 my serial number reads
0028291
Anybody now what year that was??
Are you SURE the first digit is not a " G "?
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40,000 divided by 350M people in the United States = 1/9,000.
They are well made rifles.
Pat
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Springfield Mass, G024647, has scope grooves.
Pumps up but doesn't hold air long term. So, dang, another one that needs attention.
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Are you going to do a video about rebuilding it?
Pat
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Jon,
I have rebuilt one of my 77A’s, bought a flat top piston from mac1 and a Crosman 140 seal kit as they are the right size then tore it down, glad to provide details if you need help. There are two small screws on the valve body that need backed out and a couple of 4-40 screws do the trick for that task and also for tapping back into position.
The reseal looks difficult to do, but in reality if you focus on the valve body location and do not need to remove everything else it is a really easy job to do.
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I rebuilt a few maybe 12, 13 years ago, and I took some notes and pictures. What sticks with me offhand is that it has some quirks (like for the valve body) and that I hate clamshell receivers. But nice to know there's help out there if needed, Elroy.
Maybe a video if it might be useful to someone. I've actually got so many other projects going right now, mostly not airgun related, that it could be a while before I get to it. Putting it back in the safe for now.
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Jon, not a problem. Maybe one day I will do a few videos as well, just way to busy with youngest sons high school sports and oldest son first year of college sports. Just barely found the time to work on a Crosman 147 that I actually started March and finished last week.
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Just to add to the database, I recently acquired another 77A. This one has scope grooves, Springfield Mass stamp, serial number G036037.
Sold as not working and they were right this time- feels like the pump cup is toast, even after a good oiling. I have a couple extra Mac1 flattop O-ring pistons here, so it's getting one of those before I tear into anything else.
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Just to help further the idea that there is potentially a date code in the S&W airgun serial numbers my 79g has all the features consistent with a later production gun, has a SN that seems to indicate a '78 production, and has a receipt as well as stamp on the box indicating that it was shipped / sold in 1982 which is again consistent with a very late production gun.
I believe my gun to be a 1978 example and date coded as such, but that date code could be coincidental.
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Cobia787,
I have read where there is a hypothetical theory that leading alpha character indicates decade of manufacture and last number in serial number is the year of that decade, if this is indeed true my rifle was manufactured in 1975 which puts it in the time period of the years dovetail scope rails were added to the action (1973-1978). I had to use zoom on my camera to confirm the G was not a numerical zero which it looked like without zoom.
This winter I've been putting together a database of 78g and 79g pistol serial numbers along with model and packaging changes. (I've kept track of a few 77A and 80g rifles as well, and all 77A SN's I've seen have had a G in the prefix.) So far I've got a sampling of about 120 pistols, and it's revealed quite a bit about the line. Their serial numbers don't indicate date of manufacture such as on a Daisy or Crosman where you can figure out the exact month and date they were made. S&W used serial number starting with Q and switching over to G about 3/4 of the way through the run. So far it looks like they mostly sequential from 0 to 170k, then they jump around a little bit to 200k, then 290k-300k.
There's also some question about the lore of the move to Springfield from Tampa in 1973. All the early pistols came with paperwork listing Springfield as the location for parts and service. The guns that came out right after the adjustable trigger was dropped feature a change in address to Tampa in the owner's manual and on the warranty card. Around this run in the series pellets and CO2 packaging was starting to be marked Tampa, and even the pistol boxes were stamped in Tampa. About 40k pistols later, everything switched back to Springfield addresses.
I plan to put together a website with the info I've found once I find a few more samples that help nail down specific changes.
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Hi I got a Tampa Florida 77a
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Hi I got a Tampa Florida 77a
There were a small number of 77A rifles that were made in Tampa, from somewhere before serial number G027000 to some point after G028500. (These are very approximate numbers.) These rifles are stamped Made in Tampa. The rifles before this serial number range as well as those after are marked Made in Springfield.
The 80g rifles are all stamped Made in Springfield, but the boxes on early rifles were printed Made in Tampa while the later ones were marked Springfield.
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G019928
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G019928
This serial number falls in the range that should be stamped as made in Springfield Ma. If you check the other markings on your 77A, do you see a location of manufacture?