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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Hunting Gate => Topic started by: Wirenut1212 on August 27, 2010, 05:26:44 PM
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My father in law has a large cattle farm in Arkansas and has a nice tractor barn with some high dollar equipment inside tractors hay mowers and bailers. I guess he has a massive pigeon problem they are crapping on everything and apparently is ruineing his green paint on his equipment. He called and wanted me to come shoot them I asked how many he said flocks several hundred. First are these considered nusiance animals? They are eating him out of house and home he said there looks to be hundreds at a time at his bulk cattle feeders, they have tried owl decoys and rubber snakes but he says only lasts a day or so then they ignore it. I am not sure how much a pigeon can eat but if there truly are a hundred or more at a time I am sure it is substaintial. I was planning on a 22 Lr for the work but he has cows everywhere plus is on a large hill making me leary of the distance a 22 powder burner will travel. Will my HW97k take them out is 177 cal, I can hit the sillouette targets and knock them down out to 50 yards at the range, but I don't wanna wound them, either. What would you say max range is if it is legal to shoot them. The RWS Hollow point shoots very well and is what I was planning on using. Any advise would be appreciated.
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They are flying rats and who cares about wounding them just camo up and sit in the barn and have fun . they are considered pests and open game 24/7 365 have a good time bring lots of pellets and some black bags
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Actually, if they are roosting in a lead-free location, they're good eats, too.
But yes, they are non-native invasives. You're doing a favor to not only your father in law but the environment.
I use hp's in .177 and take lots of pigeons out to 25yds. That's the end of my back yard. :) I've taken them with my benji pumper at 8 pumps with a center chest shot angling upward, but if you don't have that, you'll want to hit them in the head or the "shoulder". The latter will send bone and a flat, enlarged pellet into the vitals. If you miss, you're likely to knock him down with that shot so you can dispatch him manually.
The hotter the gun, the more important expansion is in your pellets.
M
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My father in law has talked to the local game warden he said kill um all. He recommended going into the barn at night with light and gun. Easy picking on the roost.
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I shoot pigeons all the time, they are great air gun targets. Your HW97 will do a fine job on them and the RWS Super Hollow Points will work fine as long as you have good shot placement. Try for head shots, clear breast shots or clear shots at the back. Any of those shots will take them down no problem. Try to avoid hitting them in the wings. The feathers and bone of the wing will absorb most of the force of the hollow point and the bird will probably fly off. They are very good eating, I eat all the ones I shoot. I'm looking forward to the results of your first hunt.
Jeff
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Jeff,
I hope you know that I greatly respect your skill and believe that you are a better hunter than I (and I say that as a one who utterly terrorized bird and squirrel populations with air gun for years and years as a youngster).
That said, my experience doesn't square with yours on the "wing shot". I have to believe that we're missing something (not that either of us are wrong). My position is that if you can't get or feel comfortable with a head shot, the high body "shoulder/wing" shot is very effective (NO fly-aways, mostly one shot kills).
The variables that may be differing in our experiences seem to be the following:
Range
FPS
Angle of entry
Pellet type
I can't think of any others. Can you?
Now, my range on all my rock dove kills was about 12-15 yards.
I was shooting them with the BenjiSheridan pumper .177 (iron sights) at I'm guessing (at 8-9 pumps) 700 fps, maybe a little more. Pass through seemed to be my problem, not lack of penetration. I will also say that back shots (low or high) were not killing the birds fast. Almost all of them died, but many died 30-100' away (two on the neighbors roof, one after plastering himself into the side of his house).
I changed over to Silver Bear hp's from wadcutters and that made a difference, but I still had a fly away and I saw a dust-up behind the bird (as I often did) even as I heard the pellet go "thwop", so I know that I was going through him. When I went for the shoulder, from the side, all that changed. VERY effective.
Now, here's what I think the difference is: I'm shooting from 14-15 above the bird, probably at a 30' angle down. I'm probably angling down INTO the chest cavity with a flattening pellet and bone fragments, *behind* the breast bone.
Do you think that's the difference? I'm remembering that when I was shooting them from my box gutter, underneath I mild to low breast shot seemed to take them out almost every time (same gun), but I couldn't get the same result with anything but the shoulder shot.
BTW, the next time one comes into the "kill zone". I'm going to test pass through with his carcass and some cardboard (same gun).
I'll also add that the same shot is NOT usually as effective on starlings.
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WadeS and I have shot nearly 600 pigeons this calendar year with .22 air rifles so I think we're qualified to chime in here. We don't recommend chest-shooting them, especially if you have a mild or mid powered .177. My .22 850 and Wade's .22 Mrod at 900fps will whack them pretty good with a body shot but even then some still fly off. We still prefer a head or shoulder shot. When we shoot our lower power .22 springers inside barns we always aim for upper body/neck/head area. Too many times they fly off wounded with a center-mass shot. They have a fair amount of breast and don't die too easy.
Our best shooting is when we flush them out an hour or two before dark and set up nearby, camo'd of course. We let them come back to roost. When they land on the roof/doors/windows they are ripe for the picking. Once dark sets in we close up the doors/windows/whatever else and go in with a spotlight. We alternate turns holding the light and shooting. We greased 52 last saturday night doing exactly this. It will seem like caos when you shart the light and shooting routine but you will get used to it. We use Daisy wadcutters because: 1. They are CHEAP 2. They don't overpenetrate (roofs, walls, etc). 3. The ranges are very close so absolute accuracy isn't required. 4. They hit hard with their blunt front ends. 5. They are CHEAP.
Try the spotlight thing or at least a large Mag-Lite. You'll have fun.
Doug
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Doug, you killed more pigeons Sunday than I've killed ever. LOL!
I did come close to you on starlings this year and may have beaten you on them last year. :)
Seriously, though, you and WadeS could probably rent out our skills for decent money ($40-$50 per hour, on site).
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Mebits,,, not a problem my friend, ya gotta call em as you see em :)
Those shots have always worked very well for me on pigeons but I realize not everyone may not have had the same results. Like you said, I guess there are a lot of variables that can effect a shot and the same shot may not work out the same way for two different people. I do most of my shooting with my .22 condor so the thick breast feathers and bone don't really get in the way, but I've also had excellent success on those shots with my springers. No matter, each air gunner should use whatever POA that they feel works best for them.
Talk to ya later buddy :)
Jeff
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With all due respect to the 600 + birds DRT. It looks like Melbits has a significant down angle in his shooting where you gentlemen have a significant up angle. The angle of entry can make all the difference in taking out the vitals. If I remember right the vitals in most birds are high and closer to the back due to the breast muscle and associated flying stuffs. So, where you would need a good head/neck shot he only needs a center mass. Just my humble Opinion
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one word... predators. even at 550/600 fps the wound channel is large enough that the massive damage will not allow a fly off. I pick them off with a disco carbine at 685 fps with wadcutters (.177) and had so far no fly offs. a head shot is always better but under the right circumstances you can get away with body shots more often than not. The perfect pigeon gun is a low/med velocity .25... it does not matter where you hit... they are done. I also had luck with crow magnum pellets at low 800s in .177. they seriously mushroom out to look like dimes...
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Lilly'sdad,
Good to know on the Crow Mags. That is as I had hoped and suspected. I'm shooting those now.
I have to say that when I went from a wadcutter to the Silver Bears, the knockdown power was pretty obvious (same angle, same distance, same birds). This would probably be why. :)
M
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The Crow Mags mushroom unbelievably well. I measured two .22's I recovered and they were 0.30 and 0.31" in diameter. Yes, 30cal! Almost flat as a pancake :)
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I have shot many a feral pigeon and love the neck head shot and have taken many with tail up through the body{if avaliable} drops them every time rips there guts apart. I have made kills with my diana pistol at 25 yards that way shoulder socket shot with a follow up do it also . I have this set up on my gamo VH for night work and it can be mounted on other scopes it works unreal long strong wide beam finger touch lighting and the scope is solid for what it is .Good luck on the pideon roost lots of qualified guys and info here true be told it's a flying rat don't forget pic's and holla if you need help http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/Gamo_Varmint_Hunting_Scope_p/gmo621204515.htm (http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/Gamo_Varmint_Hunting_Scope_p/gmo621204515.htm) website /picture (http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/v/vspfiles/photos/GMO621204515-2.jpg) wing shot 50 yards predator .17 cal 8.2 grain (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/TheKnot/feralpidgeon50yds.jpg)
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You're right about the shooting angles making a difference. About 1/2 of our pigeon shooting is up at a significant angle while the other 1/2 is level or close to it. We've just seen too many center-mass shot pigeons fly off after the puff of feathers to die somewhere else. It seems a shoulder either kills them DRT or drops them so they can't fly and you can get a follow up shot. I'm going to try Predators pretty soon on them. Everybody raves about them.
BTW our best air rifle day is 438 starlings and we're (between us) in the 600-700 starling range for 2010. They seem to be scattered thin over the warm summer months and we don't get nearly as many as in the winter when it's cold and then are in huge flocks.
Don't forget to post pics of your pigeon escapades.
Doug
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I was using the Preds when I was shooting a springer and they did great. But when I got the Mrod they would not fit in the mag. Now going with a Evanix they should fit again and will be used to put the smack down on the birds/squirrels or what ever else threatens my garden or trucks finish.
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Try the Skenko "Ultra Shock", they are devastating both in .177 and .22
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This is interesting. At work we have several pigeons that the maintenance dept wants me to remove. I have yet to do the deed. Now at home I have several dozen wild Ring Neck Pigeons and looks like at least 3 different types of Doves, and another wild type of pigeon. I have not even shot one of them. I have taken several pest sparrows but for some reason I just leave the pigeons and doves alone. As for how much they can eat, I dropped about 2 pounds of dry corn and seed mixture out at my target zone and they ate it all up in about an hour. While I was shooting targets 4 feet above there heads. So I can imagine hundreds would eat hundreds of pounds of meal in a day.
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Doug T. is correct with that take on shot placement. Head, neck, or upper chest to include shoulder shots work great even with the lower powered .22 springer's. My Mendoza shoots 570 fps and works well with these shots, not so good with center mass.
Mebits, How can I get signed up for that pigeon shooting job? Will send resume upon request!!!
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Hey, what he said.
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They are flying rats and who cares about wounding them just camo up and sit in the barn and have fun . they are considered pests and open game 24/7 365 have a good time bring lots of pellets and some black bags
You should make every effort to assure a clean and humane kill no matter what type of hunting you do.Thanks David
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Agreed
Even the loathsome rat and starling deserve nothing less than for the hunter to despatch them properly.
That's the difference between hunters and slobs.
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I have never had any issues with broadside shots or shoulder shots on Starlings and Grackles (no pigeons). If it doesn't kill them immediately, it disables them from flying. I have had some issues however with frontal chest shots, so I prefer not to shoot them in the chest or "center mass", unless I have no choice and I always aim higher near the neck or upper chest. Then again I mostly use the 850 .22 and rarely lose a bird. I can see losing more with .177.